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Dollarmansteve

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Beware - Business Thread - My Rant about sales

09-19-2006, 06:41 AM

I have a few pet peeves when working sales:

Guilt is not an effective sales tactic and does not build long term relationships. For example "Come on man, send me some traffic, I sent you traffic.. so you owe me!"

- Everyone gets paid for the joins they send, so unless you havent been paid then the deal is done. Every other affiliate is satisfied when they get paid and never ask for traffic as well as payment.

- In business, no one owes you anything. If you have a good relationship with the person, you will get your traffic back - but don't use guilt to try and get it

Which leads me to my second point - the 'trade'.

In most industries there exists a barter market for goods and services. That is, companies within the same industry will trade - So, in the textiles industry an embroidery company will put a logo on t-shirts for another company for free, but that company will in-turn supply them with some stock (t-shirts, hats, etc) for free - the exchange of goods/services satisfying the transaction.

My point is that no one should expect the best of both worlds - either you get paid for the joins as an affiliate - or you send the joins ($0) as barter in return for joins back your way. I dont know how many times I respond to "Hey you wanna do a traffic trade" by saying "Sure, I'll trade you Money for your traffic!".

Discuss.

PS - Im always up for trading my money for your traffic

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d00t

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09-19-2006, 07:07 AM

Since when is adult internet considered 'most other industries' ??

Dude if you want conventional deals stay the fuck away from this business and have a boring life.

If you had not guessed, adult business is at the forefront of dealing, trading, technology and marketing practices.

If you want my traffic, you need bring something else to the table besides money - anyone can give me a few bucks but not everyone can provide me with solid business stability, creative genious, flexibility and more free stuff (ie: liondollars amsterdam new years trip).

I think YOU need to wake up!
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Dollarmansteve

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09-19-2006, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by d00t

Since when is adult internet considered 'most other industries' ??

Dude if you want conventional deals stay the fuck away from this business and have a boring life.

If you had not guessed, adult business is at the forefront of dealing, trading, technology and marketing practices.

If you want my traffic, you need bring something else to the table besides money - anyone can give me a few bucks but not everyone can provide me with solid business stability, creative genious, flexibility and more free stuff (ie: liondollars amsterdam new years trip).

I think YOU need to wake up!

Unfortunately - not everyone is as sophisticated as that and my point was that many people out there are only looking for the conventional 'traffic trade' - that was my point! I am always looking for the out of the box type deal - the 'partnership' - unique ways to make money.

In fact - you have strengthened what I was trying to say - In most cases the only "unique" idea anyone has is "send me some traffic back".

You also have to consider that there is a many-to-one relationship going on, as in there are hundreds of people fighting over one source of traffic. So I can say to you or anyone "if you want MY traffic back - you need to bring something else to the table"

Last edited by Dollarmansteve; 09-19-2006, 07:14 AM.

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d00t

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09-19-2006, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by Dollarmansteve

You also have to consider that there is a many-to-one relationship going on, as in there are hundreds of people fighting over one source of traffic. So I can say to you or anyone "if you want MY traffic back - you need to bring something else to the table"

Totally

Infact this is where my business integrity kicks in. Anyone that hits me up for traffic without anything else (whether at a show or icq or whatever) more than twice I add them to my little blacklist of people never to deal with. I don't care who it is or how many trillions of dollars they make a day. Sure I may lose a future working relationship but that shit just annoys the crap out of me.
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pr0

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09-19-2006, 07:37 AM

Lets say i just opened my own program in the niche of "big boobs". But i've got a tremendous amount of petite traffic. There are 300 programs out there with petite sites....all of which convert almost exactly the same.

With all the choices out there of programs, i can easily start going to the smaller programs & asking for a little big boob traffic....on the side with my payment.

Now i know for a FACT the smaller programs will go the extra mile to obtain my 30-40 sales a day (which are a joke to a big program)....and help me grow my big boob site by sending me atleast 10 a day...(which is the least i'd expect). They get paid on the sales they send me. We both grow.

With all that being said...i've never asked for traffic back, but if i needed it, i know where i could go to get it. And i don't see a problem with it.

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Dollarmansteve

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09-19-2006, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by pr0

Lets say i just opened my own program in the niche of "big boobs". But i've got a tremendous amount of petite traffic. There are 300 programs out there with petite sites....all of which convert almost exactly the same.

With all the choices out there of programs, i can easily start going to the smaller programs & asking for a little big boob traffic....on the side with my payment.

Now i know for a FACT the smaller programs will go the extra mile to obtain my 30-40 sales a day (which are a joke to a big program)....and help me grow my big boob site by sending me atleast 10 a day...(which is the least i'd expect). They get paid on the sales they send me. We both grow.

With all that being said...i've never asked for traffic back, but if i needed it, i know where i could go to get it. And i don't see a problem with it.

This is good stuff people - If we could all be more creative in our deal making alot more business could get done.

The moral of the story is - dont get caught ina rut / routine when you're doing sales. Overcome an objection like "I dont have traffic to send back" with something unique.

Sales is like carving a statue out of a block of stone - Every block of stone has a sculpture inside - it just takes the repeated efforts of the artists chisel to reveal it, and every sculpture is unique

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The Ghost

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09-19-2006, 07:53 AM

Different tactics work differently with different people. Not everyone will respond the same way. There are those that base business decisions on the people they've partied with for a night or two, without researching the stability of a partner or program. Others have different routes. Some prefer phone conversations, while others are just fine with emails and icq. And some prefer face to face meeting. I know 'guilt' wouldn't be the best way to do the transaction, but there is always give and take in every business.

Not having a good feeling about business dealings isn't the best way to go into, or close a deal.

Last edited by The Ghost; 09-19-2006, 07:55 AM.

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d00t

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09-19-2006, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Dollarmansteve

This is good stuff people - If we could all be more creative in our deal making alot more business could get done.

The moral of the story is - dont get caught ina rut / routine when you're doing sales. Overcome an objection like "I dont have traffic to send back" with something unique.

Sales is like carving a statue out of a block of stone - Every block of stone has a sculpture inside - it just takes the repeated efforts of the artists chisel to reveal it, and every sculpture is unique

exactly!

now send me some sales
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#9

09-19-2006, 07:56 AM

Hey Guys:
How about some examples of the type of 'creative' barter-outside-the-box trades you would be interested in...for all the new up-and-comers who want to know how to approach people like you and not get on your blacklists at shows

The concept of traffic, and whose traffic it is throughout the process is such an enigma for so many people...and the 'traffic panels' at the shows never really address hard issues...

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09-19-2006, 08:00 AM

i agree with you 100%

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Dollarmansteve

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#11

09-19-2006, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by d00t

exactly!

now send me some sales

ya, you and everyone else. How about this - I will send you and the 200 other programs 1/2 a sale per day.

Or, I'll send you 0 sales, but pay you $45 / join for the next 30 days for sales to the python.com HD sites.

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#12

09-19-2006, 08:36 AM

Steve, send me some traffic

"Unhappy with the riches 'cause you're piss poor morally."

Trade traffic? - Highdef Blog
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andrej_NDC

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#13

09-19-2006, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by pr0

the smaller programs will go the extra mile to obtain my 30-40 sales a day (which are a joke to a big program)

Trust me, for no program except maybe BBO & ND are 30-40 sales a day a joke. 80% of all advertisers on GFY make less sales overall.
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andrej_NDC

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#14

09-19-2006, 11:42 AM

btw you can send me sales, I will give you 50% of every sale.
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#15

09-19-2006, 11:42 AM

good insightful post

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Roald

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09-19-2006, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by andrej_NDC

Trust me, for no program except maybe BBO & ND are 30-40 sales a day a joke. 80% of all advertisers on GFY make less sales overall.

So they don't do 100 sales a day on a 1:50 conversion at all???

You just burst my buble

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#17

09-20-2006, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by andrej_NDC

Trust me, for no program except maybe BBO & ND are 30-40 sales a day a joke. 80% of all advertisers on GFY make less sales overall.

i've been in this business since 1999....& you can't tell me that, i've seen it from the ground floor

sending 30+ sales a day was just a drop in the bucket....& i know because i was the one as an employee making the sales

and i listened to the phone conversations my boss had with the bigger programs

sure they were willing to offer HUGE pre-paid deals at 30+ a day....but that was about it

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andrej_NDC

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#18

09-20-2006, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by pr0

i've been in this business since 1999....& you can't tell me that, i've seen it from the ground floor

sending 30+ sales a day was just a drop in the bucket....& i know because i was the one as an employee making the sales

and i listened to the phone conversations my boss had with the bigger programs

sure they were willing to offer HUGE pre-paid deals at 30+ a day....but that was about it

I saw stats from some programs, too. And now I believe there are no more than 20 programs making some big sales.
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#19

09-20-2006, 11:09 AM

"Or, I'll send you 0 sales, but pay you $45 / join for the next 30 days for sales to the python.com HD sites."

Sold! How do I take advantage of that deal?
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#20

09-20-2006, 11:19 AM

Cheaters have destroyed trading.
People are so tired of cheaters that it makes it next to impossible for anyone else. typically Tgps want you to send them a bunch of traffic up front before they even begin to send returns (not just the established sites). The traffic you do receive is crap more often than not.

There are some sites that still offer even trades. They are few and far between. Often the want 100% production or higher or they will delete the trade. This is self explanatory If everyone wants to get and not give your screwed.

If no one else wants to share with me how can I share with you. The answer you have to bye traffic.

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#21

09-20-2006, 11:26 AM

the smart people dont send any traffic to people. they keep it in their own networks and keep all the money ;)

lol.

i feel your pain steve. i always had to tell people that i don't have any room for you. i'm no master traffic guy, but i had a formula worked of who converted the highest with my traffic and i never took them down. same goes fro my new project, i've already got the people lined up that i am going to send the traffic to and they don't even know it yet.

telling people that you are friends with no, sucks. but in the end its whats best for the business, not who i party with at shows or who offers to pay for dinners at night.
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Dollarmansteve

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09-20-2006, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by clicker

"Or, I'll send you 0 sales, but pay you $45 / join for the next 30 days for sales to the python.com HD sites."

Sold! How do I take advantage of that deal?

email steveatpythondotcom or icq 276275294

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Dollarmansteve

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09-20-2006, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by A1R3K

i feel your pain steve. i always had to tell people that i don't have any room for you. i'm no master traffic guy, but i had a formula worked of who converted the highest with my traffic and i never took them down. same goes fro my new project, i've already got the people lined up that i am going to send the traffic to and they don't even know it yet.

telling people that you are friends with no, sucks. but in the end its whats best for the business, not who i party with at shows or who offers to pay for dinners at night.

This is the part that most people dont get - outbound traffic is a complicated business - and it has to be mazimizing revenue at all times. Believe me, I would love to send everyone and their mother 10 joins a day in addition to the $35/join.. but it's impossible and it would just be bad business. The reality is that someone's traffic might perform on our sites, but their sites might not perform on our traffic - so to do 'a trade' would be suicide.

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#24

09-20-2006, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by The Ghost

Different tactics work differently with different people. Not everyone will respond the same way. There are those that base business decisions on the people they've partied with for a night or two, without researching the stability of a partner or program. Others have different routes. Some prefer phone conversations, while others are just fine with emails and icq. And some prefer face to face meeting. I know 'guilt' wouldn't be the best way to do the transaction, but there is always give and take in every business.

Not having a good feeling about business dealings isn't the best way to go into, or close a deal.

Exactly.. its all about using the right pitch with the right person. Know your audience. Sounds like the guy trying to sell the OP read him completely wrong;)

Some people respond to guilt, pushy tactics, and being buddy buddy with them. In fact that is the only way to get a lot of passive-shy people to bite (called Lambs).. otherwise they put you off and do business with the the one whos giving them a little pressure. For the more dominant personalities, it can be a good way to ruin any prospects for a deal.

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