Originally posted by Anthony
And once again... To some people obtaining an orange belt is an acheivement rather than testing out their strength against other people...
Do I need to repeat myself... It's not a VS. thing...
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Thats what exactly the paragraph explains... The lack of CULTURE what modern day training brings... Once again it's not a VS. thing and saying whats better... They are using ideologies...
And once again... To some people obtaining an orange belt is an acheivement rather than testing out their strength against other people...
Do I need to repeat myself... It's not a VS. thing...
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I'M A NINJA!!!
dunefield, anyone who doesn't see that MMA is 99% BJJ as soon as the fight hits the ground is an idiot beyond saving or talking to.
Anthony, if you keep talking about BJJ without mentioning my name I'm gonna show you my Jeff Glover taught little man's ground game ;)Comment
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ummm... 99%? You mean every hold/move/guard was all from BJJ? You're kidding me right? Ground and Pound came from BJJ? All sorts of leg locks came from BJJ? Please help me out here...Originally posted by dig420Comment
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Pfffttt, your board tracker doesnt' go off?Originally posted by dig420
I'm trying to find a middle ground here with Dunefield. I think we are both beginning to see each other's point.
Which is, "Neither one of us can change each other's point of view".
But we can both share the fact that we both are MMA fans.
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Yup I agree there... We are fans of MMA... lol...Comment
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Man that totally reminds me of when I met Anthony. We were both fighting in the Kumite and we ended up both making it to the finals.Originally posted by dig420
I'll never forget the words Anthony said to me:" You break my record. Now I break you, like I break your friend."
Anyway, here's a picture of Anthony from that day. Good times.
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I'll make one try to clue you in with a statement that you'd have to be a mouth breathing simpleton to disagree with: It's called BRAZILIAN Jiu-Jitsu because it's Jiu-Jitsu MODIFIED - not INVENTED - by Helio Gracie to make it possible for a smaller man to fight a bigger man and win. Most of the moves in BJJ were not INVENTED by Helio, but the setups and execution of the moves were changed to bring most of the leverage and bodyweight of the smaller man to bear on one small area of the larger man's body.Originally posted by dunefield
Helio then started fighting anyone and everyone to prove the worth of this new style of Jiu-Jitsu and aquitted himself so well that Kimura himself came to test his skills. Kimura was a much larger man and one of the best, if not THE best, judokas that ever lived. Still, the tiny Helio was able to put a long and ferocious fight before being caught in an armbar. BJJ continued to evolve thru the efforts of Rickson, Rorion and most especially the late lamented Rolls Gracie and became so effective over time that Gracies were winning virtually every fight they entered into.
Cue the Americans: Rorion started the UFC and 170 lb Royce Gracie demolishes much larger, stronger and more athletic men for about 5 years before everybody else gets the point and starts training in BJJ. Only AFTER the fighters started training BJJ was anyone able to compete with the Gracie BJJ fighters. Now EVERYBODY who fights NHB has BJJ - modified Jiu-Jitsu - as part of the game. EVERY FUCKING BODY, including Fedor, Hughes, Liddell, Sudo - EVERY FUCKING BODY who gets in that ring knows how to peel someone off their back, they know how to set a hook, they know how to sink an RNC, they know how to do a heel hook, they know how to perform and escape an armbar, they know how to establish and how to pass an open and closed guard.
You want to train for your overall mental and physical health? Fine, nothing wrong with that. Do your thang. But don't be a goddam idiot and try to dismiss what's staring you right in your face: If you want to fight and win NHB, you better know BJJ or you're gonna fucked up by the first person you face who does. That's a FACT. An indisputable FACT, by any reasonable person. Too bad Ninjas and Kung Fu guys aren't reasonable.Comment
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that was supposed to be a two line throwaway post but at some point I got too into it LOLComment
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We can all day long here, but I'd like to see what real Martial Artists who train in everything from Kung Fu, Sambo, BJJ, Judo, Shidokan Karate, etc say about your argument.Originally posted by dunefield
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Anthony's a big musclebound boy. If you can survive for 5 minutes he'll gas and then it's all you baby ;)Originally posted by WarChildMan that totally reminds me of when I met Anthony. We were both fighting in the Kumite and we ended up both making it to the finals.
I'll never forget the words Anthony said to me:" You break my record. Now I break you, like I break your friend."
Anyway, here's a picture of Anthony from that day. Good times.
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I got rid of the head band, cut off the mullet, and lost some weight.Originally posted by WarChildMan that totally reminds me of when I met Anthony. We were both fighting in the Kumite and we ended up both making it to the finals.
I'll never forget the words Anthony said to me:" You break my record. Now I break you, like I break your friend."
Anyway, here's a picture of Anthony from that day. Good times.
What do you think? Do I look better?
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5 minutes is a long fucking time with me on your chest!Originally posted by dig420
Don't make me show you the "Big Man" Jiu Jitsu I learned from Roy Harris!
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Hmm little taller too. I think Chong Li is like 5'1Originally posted by AnthonyI got rid of the head band, cut off the mullet, and lost some weight.
What do you think? Do I look better?.Comment
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About the cultural aspect on things? Karate and Kung Fu have a long history so it does base itself on culture...Originally posted by Anthony
There was some stuff on the web about Mas Oyama talking about Kyokushin and what not i'll see if i can find that stuff again...Comment
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Originally posted by Pleasurepays
Had one in June and got my ass kicked. I'm back again for Grappler's Quest October 15 & 16. =]
Retired Pornosticator
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Well, the cultural aspect is secondary. Those same warriors needed something to do when they weren't actually killing someone.Originally posted by dunefield
Mas Oyama himself believed in full contact above all else. the 100 man kumite that he was so fond off clearly shows it.
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Blah blah i know the history of BJJ... Your comment about NHB is flawed... If BJJ is the best and it's a FACT why isn't Nog or Werdum Heavyweight champ? Why is Gomi's record against BJJ fighters pretty damn good... Apart from Aurelio but he didn't look motivated at all in that fight...Originally posted by dig420
And if you mean NHB as in some kind of streetfight what makes you so sure you a BJJ person would win? I mean theres no rules involved... If you had someone on top of you what is holding back the person to bite you and take a big chunk of flesh out? What will you do then? What will you do when a guy has a metal pole and goes swinging it at you? Anything can happen in some wild street brawl...Comment
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Yup but Kyokushin is a different type all together to something like Shotokan... It's pretty much based on the strength...Originally posted by Anthony
But once again... Why is the cultural aspect secondary? Maybe to you it is... But to others it isn't...Comment
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You do remember that Nog was Pride FC Champion right?Originally posted by dunefield
Gomi is damn good, then he meat Marcus Aurelio from where? AMERICAN TOP TEAM! Sorry, just proud of my club.
NHB is the closest there is to a street fight. Rather than some Ninja thinking he can kill with one punch, and asked if he's every done it before and always getting the answer "No". It's safe to say, that BJJ or MMA with empirical data is more effective in a streetfight.And if you mean NHB as in some kind of streetfight what makes you so sure you a BJJ person would win? I mean theres no rules involved... If you had someone on top of you what is holding back the person to bite you and take a big chunk of flesh out? What will you do then? What will you do when a guy has a metal pole and goes swinging it at you? Anything can happen in some wild street brawl...
A guy with metal pole will fuck up anyone's day, whether they box, do karate, mma, bjj, whatever, so that's a red herring.
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Cultural Aspect of a martial art is secondary because that's the progression.Originally posted by dunefield
No one decided to start picking up a sword and say hey, before we do this, let's have a tea ceremony, powder our swords, and do some praying at the local shinto bar and grill.
They made these rituals to tie in with their profession. Killing People.
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An article on a Karate expert...
Sensei Ray Sweeney was graded to Shodan in 1997 by Sensei Chris Thompson.
Ray left England in 2000 to teach karate full time in Javea, Spain. He currently holds the grade of Sandan and is honoured to have been chosen to be the Washinkai Karate Chief Instructor for Spain.
Ray has recently taken part in the latest DVD by Sensei Thompson "Further Essentials of Karate" which covers the seven compulsory kata from 3rd kyu to 3rd dan
Ku Shan-Ku, Naihanchi, Chinto, Seishan, Tenshin-sho, Bassai and Wanshu.
For the first time TENSHIN-SHO is covered by it's creator Sensei Chris Thompson and
t he complete orange belt (8th Kyu) syllabus is demonstrated as well as pair work including knife defences.
Ray says, "Roots are very important to me because I believe that continuity of training with knowledgable Senseis is the very foundationstone of good karate. I am extremely fortunate to be a member of the reknowned British Tradtional Karate Association and also to have Senseis Pellitt, Smith and Thompson continuing to act as my instructors and guides".
Sensei Sweeney is the holder of Certificates for 3rd Dan from the Spanish Karate Federation, the British Traditional Karate Association and the English Karate Governing Body. He is a qualified EKGB and Spanish Karate Federation Coach, a qualified Grading Examiner up to 1st Kyu, a qualified Competition Judge and a Red Cross First Aider.
Seems culture does play a big part for him...Comment
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yeah I would have to say there are no sure-fire techniques in BJJ against a long metal pole. Or a gun. Or a knife. Or a bazooka. BJJ doesn't give you an iron plated ass, all it does is give you the undeniable and clear-cut and PROVEN ability to survive against and defeat a bigger stronger faster guy in a reasonably fair fight.
Let's see.. BJJ comes on the scene, about 80 bazillion fights are won with BJJ and a dozen or so times the BJJ guy gets kicked in the head and knocked out. Yeah, for sure BJJ is worthless.
Let me ask you something: What do you get out of being a hater? What's your net gain here? Obviously the facts are against you, but you're willing to make an idiot out of yourself trying to deny the obvious. Does it just make your dick hard or something? I've always wondered that about you haters.Comment
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Most people surrender to BJJ fighters not because of deadly locks but because of the smell from balls and ass of the guy that chokes them. I heard from BJJ fighters that they purposely don’t wash down there for days and piss all over themselves week before competitions.Enjoy Bucks - Enjoy Bucks
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Yeah, I got a foot on him, that little bastard.Originally posted by WarChild
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Well, it's going to be hard to get a position when you're "sitting on top of" anyone with basic BJJ experience. It's hard to hold mounted position on somebody who knows how to escape it, you have to be pretty good on the ground yourself.Originally posted by dunefield
Shoot him in the face. That's what carry permits are for.Originally posted by dunefield
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Yup Nog WAS a champ... But why isn't he now? Why did he lose to a wrestler? As dig put it... BJJ is unbeatable... Who had the better to finish the fight with a submission... The armbar or the kneebar? I'd like to hear your thoughts dig...Comment
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hey man, if it works it's in the mix.Originally posted by RS-MEDIA
"Ray says, "Roots are very important to me because I believe that continuity of training with knowledgable Senseis is the very foundationstone of good karate. I am extremely fortunate to be a member of the reknowned British Tradtional Karate Association and also to have Senseis Pellitt, Smith and Thompson continuing to act as my instructors and guides"."
I'm sure that will comfort Ray as he's being triangled to sleep by some 140 lb BJJ blue belt.Comment
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Okay, we already went around the part that most TMA's are practically worthless, right?Originally posted by dunefield
I can show you on TMA's boards where they go on and on that they can win a fight with a MMA fighter using Crane Sword Hand to defend a shoot, and Rose Plucked from the Sky technique to stop from getting choked.
MMA is tried, proven and has empirical data to back it up.
TMA hides behind spritual and cultural richness to make up for the lack of effectiveness.
It's the truth, and sad for it.
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Actually you're wrong... Things like the Bushido code is an example...Originally posted by AnthonyComment
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hey dumbshit, dig never said BJJ is unbeatable. Only Superman is unbeatable. Dig said it's the best MA for real fighting. Why do you have to keep making shit up to try to stay in the argument? Why would you even want to?Originally posted by dunefield
Is there some kind of oriental mysterious dishonor in saying 'You know what? I was an idiot, and you've proven that a dozen times over. I am wrong.'?Comment
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and just an fyi for you dorkus byorkus: in wrestling, if you're on your back for three seconds, you LOSE. You are NOT allowed to close your grip in any kind of hold against your opponent. You are NOT allowed to choke your opponent.
If some 'wrestler' is doing BJJ for 4 minutes and 30 seconds and then gets the mounted position and ground and pounds the other guy unconscious, it's not 'wrestling' that won that match for him. He may be an idiot like you and not want to give the credit where the credit is due, but he's a BJJ fighter whether he likes it or not.Comment
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Well MMA is real fighting? I mean what are they doing? Are they handing each other flowers? Why because a ref is in there it's not real fighting?Originally posted by dig420Comment
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No I am right.Originally posted by dunefield
Bushido was created to give the Samurai structure, and a way of life.
Thank you for making the point for me.
Bushido was created because the Samurai were not always at war.
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You're a NINJA!!!Originally posted by dunefield
congrats!Comment
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They are rules for COMPETITION... I guess when Barnett goes to a grappling event like ADCC he's BJJ right?Originally posted by dig420Comment
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now you're being reduced to nonsensical babble, and you still keep trying.Originally posted by dunefield
That's why you'll always be a sigwhore. No ability to adapt, adjust and change.Comment
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OH GOD!!! Once again you're going back to the VS. issue... I think you've been slammed on your head a few times...Originally posted by Anthony
Refer to my previous posts about the CULTURAL aspects...Comment
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ummm... a way of life is a culture...Originally posted by AnthonyComment
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Barnett is a catch as catch can wrestler.Originally posted by dunefield
Mitsuyo Maeda (Count Koma) at one time fought as a CACC wrestler.
You might know that, since you know all about BJJ and everything.
Taught the Gracies Jiu Jitsu... sorry.Last edited by Anthony; 09-14-2006, 01:18 PM.
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I guess when Barnett wins by submission (12 times) using techniques like the keylock, kimura, armbar, triangle and rnc he picked all that up from a wrestling coach at Ohio State right?Originally posted by dunefield
I LOL at your weak reasoning ability and transparent straw man arguments.Comment
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It is, but before Bushido was created, there was no culture, there were servants who fought with swords.Originally posted by dunefield
Please look up the original definition of the word Samurai.
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JEET KUNE DO and KALI for 3 years
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ummm... you learn submission moves in wrestling... so doing a "CHICKEN WING" better not use the word "KIMURA" because OMG a BJJ guy got caught in one by a JUDO guy isn't allowed for a wrestler in grappling tournaments?Originally posted by dig420Comment
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ummm you are way off the point there... and you clearly stated which was my point... A WAY OF LIFE...Originally posted by AnthonyComment
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You learn the chicken wing in wrestling to get the guy on his back.Originally posted by dunefield
In BJJ, you get dominant position, side mount, then you isolate the arm, and then you go for kimura.
In Judo, you fall on top of your guy, grab the wrist and arm, and then you go for ude garami.
Do you see the difference?
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Ummm, no I'm not.Originally posted by dunefield
It was not a "Way Of Life" until the Samurai Class and Bushido was founded.
Before that, it was hey you, here's a sword, this is how you cut with it, now go kill someone.
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I'd really love to get you on the MA board Dunefiled...
An excerpt from the quote of yours I posted...
Oh.. let me see if I understand this correctly...
TMA teaches the children to be good little boys and girls, and to only use your ultimate karate skillz to defend youself from child molesters (who OBVIOUSLY stand no chance against a 9 year old BB).
MMA, however, doesn't teach the difference about the right time to use your skills. Therefore, we can only assume that anybody who has studied only MMA are erratic and dangerous time bombs waiting to armbar people at the smallest offense?
How about .
The truth of the matter, to me at least, is just the opposite. TMA schools tend to foster unrealistic self-anlyization of one's skill level or martial effectiveness. Despite the constant "Use your powers only for good" rhetoric, things won't work as planned. Little Johnny thinks that his Kung Fu will repel bullies and crack fiends alike, but we all know this isn't the case. Johnny does NOT know that this isn't the case, however.
MMA, being fundamentaly rooted in reality, will foster a sense of realistic solutions to combative problems (i.e. run from dirty old man who offers you candy, or beat the shit out of that kid hitting your sibling).
Truth be told, though, I think kids should fight at school. It builds character
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Yup I see the difference but once again because of the style and type of competition... However if Barnett goes into a grappling match and puts on a chicken wing how exactly was he TRAINED in BJJ...Originally posted by AnthonyComment
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I'm a black belt in the ipoppacappanyoaz martial arts.Comment
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and is there some kind of culture or discpline behind that? no...Originally posted by AnthonyComment
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