A Model wants her site down..Here's my answer

50......

Am I the only one that finds it creepy that someone's father and/or brother would be actively looking for naked pictures of the girl?

Yeah..you're right what's up with that shit?

good move

I'm sure they aren't looking so they can whack off to them.

Well, maybe the brother.

Hmm, maybe the father too.

Shit, never mind.

Point proven ;)

The gladly took the money when she did the shoots - she can deal with the content being up and online.

i don't see why this is anyones problem but the models. they make their own choices. they aren't children. its their life to fuck up. if a model is really that naive as to think no one is going to know what they are doing, they must be boarderline retarded.

the only sense of decency in this thread.

Either, Daddy and Bro will be real mad or real happy, ewww!

Can u block their state?

BTW: cute girl!

Of course you can counter sue.

And, should you prevail, you could file it in a folder called "moral victories" because that is the last light of day that judgement would ever see.

That's the problem with models who pay their legal fees on their backs and have no money....they have NOTHING to lose.

Just another risk that the site owners take on that the model does not understand.

The model release I use makes it clear that my company alone owns the content, and I may do with it as I wish.

With that said, I have pulled or delayed the release of content at the request of a model if I felt that they had a compelling reason for asking me to do so.

I usually make back my investment on content within days after posting it, so it is no biggie.

Fotunately, the issue rarely comes up, because I approach most of my projects as a collaboration with the models/performers, and they understand from the outset that I will only shoot what they are comfortable with.

I've been shooting long enough that I have seen models leave modeling to pursue other career or life goals, and it is nice knowing that they do not look back at their work with me with regret.

I'm in business to make money, but I try to put people before profits.

ADG Webmaster

Nice. You have a new fan.

That`s a good answer for me! Business is business

ninavain, I like your contact page:

Thanks.

reject her famillys' entrance.

Whaaat? That is why we have the "Age of Consent". It is not the job of the site owners or content producers to be the psychologist for models. If they are of legal age and sign the proper forms it is a done deal.

I am happy to see someone taking a logical stance. MANY program owners on this board could take a lesson on this very subject.

FULL MARKS Nina.

Interesting topic. Its much safer imo to work with girls who are already pornstars and who have told their family already.

I was asked a few weeks ago to take down a photoset, which I did, but there are circumstances where its not possible to remove the naked pictures completely.. because 1) they're already on usegroups, 2) in stores on a DVD or 3) downloaded by other webmasters as zips for promo content.

What happens if one of these cases has happened and the girl is angry and threatening to take action?

i bet she'll threaten to have her lawyer contact you now

I am going to sign-up now.....knowing nina is looking after her business and affiliates.

I don't get how so many people come to the defense of these girls. If the person in question was some 30-year old hairy guy who asked you to take down his pictures, would anyone be on his side?

What people need to realize is that this is business. Yes it's a form of entertainment, but in the end, many people here make their living, pay their bills, and support their families on these sites. Taking down a site because a girl made a mistake not only hurts the site owner who dedicated hours of labor, money, and reputation to build it, but affiliates who spent their time and money to build pages and links to promote the girl.

Should a content producer lay out the facts that their pictures are out there forever no matter who they date? YES. Are they required to? NO. Fact is that the business world doesn't revolve around what "your boyfriend says" or what "your dad found out". If the girl doesn't tell her parents and boyfriend, tough shit, it's her decision. They had no problem taking the money for the photo shoots.

Argghh... she is not even that attractive.

i'd love to hear what JMM considers 'ruining someone's life' - cuz i've discussed that with my partner and the only way a site would ever come down we've decided is if was a dying girl's last request - i can't think of any other moral dilemma where taking down a site would be justified.

do you think VIVID Video or any other video company will recall DVD's when a model's life is 'ruined'? What about Hustler or Penthouse magazine? Why is the website operator any different?

no girl's life is ruined by a website - the wheels of her ruination if there is any were put in place by her and whoever raised her long before she ever takes off her clothes for a camera.

if the ruination of a life is 'my parents are freaking out' 'my friends are calling me a slut' 'my boyfriend is upset and he's going to leave me' - one big fucking YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNN - there is no ruination of a life there - just an 18 year old learning to deal with consequences of her actions.

we are in beta testing...see open date OCT 1st

well said MUTT

Another excellent point!!

You know thats theyre problem. They know what theyre getting into. Its not our job to make sure of anything. Except, "are my batteriescharged?", "is there enough life?" and "oh fuck, her make up looks like shit! Someone fix it!"
Thats our job.

There aren't a lot of intelligent people in this business so it isn't that easy to have an intelligent business discussion. However, Mutt, you are one of the intelligent ones, so I will respond.

I said earlier we took a girls sets off of one of our sites at her request. When we shot the girl, she was 18 and stupid. Most of them are 18 and stupid when they shoot. We paid her $500 for the shoot, we made that back in a couple of days. Fast forward 4 years. The girl is 22 and has just completed 2 years of training to become an EMT with the county fire department. 3 weeks before her graduation someone at the department stumbles across her sets. She is told point blank, if the pictures dont come down, you are out. Are you HONESTLY telling me that you would tell this girl to go fuck herself? Of course you wouldn't. And to be 100% honest, I would not want to know or do business with ANYONE that would tell her to go fuck herself in this situation. That is just my opinion.

Another case. Just recently, here in Austin, some FINE ART NUDES of a teacher were discovered on the net. There was nothing pornographic about them. This woman, who dedicated her life to teaching, will NEVER teach again. A little different situation of course, but it pretty much fucked up her life.

Those are just two examples. We could sit here all day and come up with a few hundred hypothetical scenarios. A website IS different than a magazine or a DVD. Magazines and DVD's have limited runs and limited lives. Sure, they hang around a long time in someones basement or under the mattress, but for the most part, they are on the stand for a month and then they are all but forgotten until they appear again 6 years later in a plastic wrapped 3 pack at the 7-11. Websites are NOW. As long as they are up, they will always be NOW. It is a big difference.

If a model came to me tomorrow and wanted to get out of her site, I would do everything I could to come up with a compromise where all parties, me, her, and the affiliates, are not harmed. I wouldn't simply have a blanket policy of NO. There are several things that can be done that wouldn't hurt my business or the affiliates. If it turned out that was not the case, well then the answer might very well be, I'm sorry, but NO.

what the hell has that got to do with anything?

she is in the wrong biz ....

You can huff and puff and beat your chest all day long but the REAL WORLD outcome is hardly ever pretty.

I discussed this scenario with my lead attorney this afternoon. I basically asked, what would you do if a girl came to you and wanted to get out of her site, even if YOU prepared all the documentation (he is fucking awesome)? Could you get her out of it?

Here was his response. Let's assume that the girl has a rich daddy, or is paying her legal fees on her back.

He said he had no idea what the outcome would be, it could go either way, but here is what he would do:

1. He would file suit against the site owner.
2. He would also name every single affiliate in the suit.
3. Interrogatories would begin. Many trees will die, we have a lot of questions to ask.
4. Depositions would begin. Your argument is going to certainly include financial hardship and financial hardship to your affiliates. Beautiful, contact your accountants boys and girls (affiliates too) and bring your books to the deposition cuz we are gonna go through your accounts penny by penny. Hope you dotted your i's and crossed your t's, would certainly hate for the IRS to have to get involved.
4. Interrogatories over? Nah, just begining. The first batch of interrogatories and depositions raised new questions.

etc, etc, etc, etc. It would COST you a fortune. You could certainly try to counter sue, come up with some good causes of action. Maybe you win, maybe you don't. Even if you do, you don't. Try and collect on a judgement. If the girl doesnt have any money, you aren't getting dick. If she does, bankruptcy and Florida is an easy solution to that one. Remember, you can only go after HER money, not daddy's.

My point is, there are LOTS of factors to consider. As I have said many times, the final answer may very well be, I'm sorry but NO. But an intelligent business person will come up with that answer at the end of the discussion, when they have all the facts, not at the beginning.

This coming from Smokey? Now I have seen it all!

Dont remind me about flakey models today. Had a girl CONTACT ME! asking for a test shoot. I tell her this weekend, she says she cant do it this weekend, has to be before thursday. So I set it up for this morning. Have to pay my babysitter, get all proper releases ready, equipment ready, load everything in the Jeep. Drive 21 miles to her house. She then doesnt answer her door. I leave for a bit and the blinds were partially open and there was a dog in the house. When I get back to see if she just had to leave for a bit, the dog is outback fenced in, and the blinds are shut.

I hit her up on my way back to my house on msn on my sidekick, and she says she is sorry. All she had to do was give me a call this morning, or hit me on msn, and tell me she had changed her mind. Instead she lets me drive over 40 miles, get cash out to pay her with, drive to her house, wait around for 20 mins etc etc. Fuckin flakey models. All this for a test shoot bah.

Good job Nina

first - i agree that magazines are different than websites - and girls know that - if we only were recruiting for magazines it would be a field day. the difference between a DVD and a website - not much these days, girls who go shoot for an LA porn shooter are going to everywhere on the Net - potentially alot more exposure than a solo girl site model.

You're right that the hypotheticals are endlesss BUT they are important because each girl and situation is different and since you have taken a different stance than ninavain and most others in the niche I know would take i'd like to know in what situations you would do otherwise than a straight 'no i'm sorry'. let's forget about girls just shot for content - there isn't a huge dilemma here - there are no affiliates involved, there is no website - just content sets you are licensing - to remove them costs you a modest loss of income - 1000 dollars at most. Not hard to be the good guy in this situation.

let's take a more difficult example based on what this thread is about - solo girl sites. you shoot a 19 year old model for a solo site - the girl is not stupid, she is informed that she is being shot for the purpose of a solo girl site(yes there are shooters who hide that from girls and that is not fair), you pay her well and shoot enough content for a solo girl site. You launch the site, affiliates are promoting the site, and the site is doing very well - making you and the affiliates lots of money. 6 months later or in the case you present 2 years later you get a frantic email/phonecall from the model that she has is going through to become an EMT or police officer or something like that and she will lose her job if her website is discovered. The website is making you and affiliates over 6 figures a year - could even be 7 figures - what do you do then? Easy to remove 5 or 10 sets from a content store or from a members area of a multimodel site - of course I'd do that for a girl if her story was legit. But this case is much different - you talk about compromises - what compromises can you make in this situation? She's told you there really are no compromises - her site either comes down immediately so that nobody from the EMT department can see it or she is at risk of getting kicked out. Affiliates are going to be pissed off - the fallout is going to hurt your program's reputation - and the financial loss major. The compromises I can think of in this situation - GeoIP protecting the site from her hometown(we are doing this) is far from perfect. Another compromise could be 'In order to shut down your site without doing damage to my business I need to keep the site up for six more months' - this also doesn't help her much - they can find the site within those six months. There really is no compromise in this case - you either take a HUGE hit for this girl or you don't.

Are you shutting down her site so she can become an EMT?

And a good question to ask yourself is from what you know of the girl's character would she do the same for you if the tables were turned?

So another girl: found god, had a kid, trying to get a real job, fellow employees found it, new boyfriend/husband or the one I like best is when someone makes copies and hands them out in da hood

creepy too, if i had a daughter who supposedly posed nude on the internet, i would NEVER want to see the site.

THATS WHAT IM SAYING

I think it is perfectly morally correct to keep the site up there.

add legal correct and you all ok.

I said it before and I will say it again, the end of the conversation might very well be, I'm sorry but the answer is going to have to be NO. However, using the figures above, you just narrowed the conversation down to just a handful of sites, one of which is mine.

Your average solo-girl site is not making anywhere near that kind of income, and as I said, I would look to see what options are available before I would simply say NO. Maybe we agree to remove the tour and redirect the incoming tour hits to another girl and/or site but keep the members area open till the rebills are gone. Maybe we agree to shut down the site as long as the model agrees to compensate the affiliates for lost revenue for a period of say, 4 months. If she has a rich daddy or boyfriend, that is certainly doable. I was watching MTV's sweet sixteen and rich daddys are spending $250,000 for their daughters sweet 16 party and MOST solo girl sites arent making anywhere near that. Maybe we shut down the site and give members access to other solo girl sites in the same program, thus keeping rebills alive while redirecting incoming hits to other sites with a kick in the payout to the affiliates (paid for by the model). There is a lot more to protecting your affiliates then simply telling the girl to fuck off when telling the girl to fuck off might actually put you, and your affiliates in harms way.

In other words, there very well might be options that satisfy all parties. But again, the final answer, after looking at the available options, MIGHT still be NO.

And, as for your question..would they do the same for me? It doesn't matter, its not their eyes I'm looking into when I look in the mirror and it's not their eyes that my kids see when they look into mine.

Then there would be VERY little porn on the net ...

Are you tuned in to the right show here? We are in the "attractive" business so it has EVERYTHING to do with it.

always good to see someone with some class.

and in case some of you kids don't know, JMM is one of the (very few) guys to stand up and fight acacia.

some of us remember that.

What happens if dad and brother find the site, beat the shit out of the girl and then knock on your door with a gun in their hand. Would 7 figures a year be worth it?

It sounds like a movie yeah, but truth, as they say, is always stranger than fiction...

What action CAN she take, if you have ID's, and model releases, and she's been paid? They can try to do what they want to, but, if you have done everything properly, as I know Nina Vain and pretty much any pther major player on this board would have done...that can't win anything in a court case. If a model is of legal age, and not coerced into shooting...it's all over.

Nina - I almost guessed it was that particular site when I saw this thread earlier. What's crazy is, she's all over the place from "before"...
Fitz

never heard of that happening - but all content shooters should have a gun cuz it is possible. i know Wanton has been met at the door at least once by a dirtbag thug with a gun and my other guy Marco has had a couple times where he thought he'd need his gun maybe.

and if you're saying that you should be intimidated and shut down a site because of threats of violence by a father or brother or bf - fuck that - they are trashier than their daughter or sister - that's why you have a gun - blow their asses to kingdom come the second you need to defend yourself.

Yep, we have guns too..and if anyone's getting past our gate, they better have a bullet proof vest on thier heads.

but the model just e-mailed back and said..ok, and sorry for asking...so sometimes a firm "No' will suffice

After waking up this morning and going through my ICQ messages, all I can say is that the hypocrisy of this thread is AMAZING.

Strike that, it is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING.

great thread, lots of interesting perspectives


this was good:

And, as for your question..would they do the same for me? It doesn't matter, its not their eyes I'm looking into when I look in the mirror and it's not their eyes that my kids see when they look into mine.