So what's the latest in conspiracy theories? They are driving down profits to get a tax break?
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ATT posted 25% net loss also -
That's a huge loss.. can't imagine losing that amounts of money (not that i have them) ;)
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That happens when you spend more than you make and just borrow borrow..Comment
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netflix had a 45% profits increaseComment
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HOT OFF THE PRESS from IMF:
btw, can't find the article (just got the paper so maybe they'll publish it later) but they also predict the loss of 50,000,000 jobs around the world. The good news is IMF never, ever in its existence had an accurate prognosis so all analysts take their 'predictions' with a grain of salt. The bad news is their predictions always tend to be very optimistic for US, Japan and Europe (after all they're the owners) and pessimistic about emerging markets, so if they say US will have a 1.3% retraction you can expect it to be at least 50% higher than that.World Growth Grinds to Virtual Halt, IMF Urges Decisive Global Policy Response
IMF Survey online
January 28, 2009
* IMF revises world growth down to lowest rate since World War II
* Stresses need for stronger international policy response to the crisis
* Banking sector must be unclogged to get economies moving again
World growth is forecast to fall to its lowest level since World War II, with financial markets remaining under stress and the global economy taking a sharp turn for the worse, sending both global output and trade plummeting, the IMF said in its latest assessment of the world economy.
"We now expect the global economy to come to a virtual halt," said IMF Chief Economist Olivier Blanchard in prepared remarks for a press briefing.
World growth is projected to fall to just ½ percent in 2009, its lowest rate in 60 years, the IMF said in an Update to its World Economic Outlook, released on January 28 together with an update to its Global Financial Stability Report. For projections, see table below.
Despite wide-ranging policy actions by governments and central banks around the world, financial strains remain acute, pulling down the real economy. The Update echoed comments by IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn that a sustained economic recovery will not be possible until the banking sector is restructured and credit markets are unclogged.
New policy initiatives needed
"For this purpose, new policy initiatives are needed to produce credible loan loss recognition; sort financial companies according to their medium-run viability; and provide public support to viable institutions by injecting capital, and carving out bad assets, including possibly through a "bad bank" approach," the Update stressed.
"We think that more decisive action is needed now by both policymakers and market participants, and with greater emphasis on balance sheet cleansing," said Jaime Caruana, Financial Counsellor of the IMF.
Caruana: Bank balance sheets need to be cleaned up to improve confidence
The IMF has raised its estimate of the potential deterioration in U.S. originated credit assets held by banks and others from $1.4 trillion last October to $2.2 trillion now [see related story].
Monetary and fiscal policies need to become even more supportive of aggregate demand and sustain this stance over the foreseeable future, while developing strategies to ensure long-term fiscal sustainability. Moreover, international cooperation will be critical in designing and implementing these policies in order to avoid destabilizing distortions.
keep reading at IMF websiteComment
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Boo Hoo!
Rich lazy fuckers are having to live like the rest of us.
Boo Fucking Hoo.
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did you read what it actually comes from? writing down certain assets, re assessing values of existing assets, not operating losses. So in other words they jacked the value of assets while the share price was on the way up, and are now dumping the share value to buy low.I could give two shits wether you read this sig or not.Comment
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errr... not to defend Chavez, but it's amazing how in 2 sentences you've shown you really need to read a newspaper or something. Venezuela was one of the few countries not hitted by the crisis, at least not an important hit, and registered economic growth on 2008. btw, is one of the few countries expected to grow in 2009 and 2010.Originally posted by Jesus H ChristWell that's what you get when you get in bed with dictator Hugo Chávez. They won't get any money from the feds due to this also.
On a side note, Chavez was elected in open elections monitored by UN and OAS, and he was the one who faced a 'coup-d'etat', not otherwise, so really no clue what are you talking about
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So, regardless as to whether or not it's accurate....
One gas company out of them all reports a loss and we're supposed to just dismiss everything we think about gas companies in general?
Or are you saying that because some of them are recording record profits, they must all be hugely successful schemers and swindlers?Comment
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So you did the same thing as he did you just used more words.errr... not to defend Chavez, but it's amazing how in 2 sentences you've shown you really need to read a newspaper or something. Venezuela was one of the few countries not hitted by the crisis, at least not an important hit, and registered economic growth on 2008. btw, is one of the few countries expected to grow in 2009 and 2010.
On a side note, Chavez was elected in open elections monitored by UN and OAS, and he was the one who faced a 'coup-d'etat', not otherwise, so really no clue what are you talking about
Chavez has shown the world what he wants them to see. Their money comes from OIL. Funny all the other OIL countries are showing losses..PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic
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Since I work as an economic analysis journalist for Latin American markets, I'd say I'm more or less informed on what I'm talking about. But since you don't seem to believe me, let's see what Bloomberg says.
As you may see by only looking for adequate sources of information, Venezuela slowed down its growth to only 4.9%. So yes, as I said, they were hitted, but it wasn't such a big deal as in many other countries.
And that's what explains why Chavez won the last elections despite all the propaganda against him, and if he wins the Constitution Change ballot he will win again: his economy plans (well, Ali Rodriguez's plans) are probably the best ever seen in Venezuela and most of Latin America
But don't believe me, I've no idea what I'm talking about
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It's all a phoney plot cooked up by the new world order. They are gonna enslave us all, you know.Comment
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Finding oil isn't cheap. Setting up isn't either.Comment
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Of course oil companies 'show a loss', but it's not a real loss. It's not like any oil companies or oil countries are posting negative income.
When you made, lets say 100 billion last year, and this year you only make 50 billion, it's not loss of 50 billion dollars. It's not a loss at all, first the price of was oil was fake inflated at least double. So they would have to double oil sales to make up for it, and that will never happen.
This is what happens when the markets reset... it will happen to almost every industry in the world. It's not a bad thing, it's a needed thing.
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It's all disambiguation
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ha, ha. thats really funny. watch Chavez go down in flames with oil for 40 bucks.errr... not to defend Chavez, but it's amazing how in 2 sentences you've shown you really need to read a newspaper or something. Venezuela was one of the few countries not hitted by the crisis, at least not an important hit, and registered economic growth on 2008. btw, is one of the few countries expected to grow in 2009 and 2010.
On a side note, Chavez was elected in open elections monitored by UN and OAS, and he was the one who faced a 'coup-d'etat', not otherwise, so really no clue what are you talking about
He isnt even able to pay western oil service companies for around 4 months and just seized up one huge oil rig (brought from US to the Columbia) as the company refused to work for them when they dont pay.
Under his leadership the oil production went down from 3mb to 2mb daily, while they have a great possiblity to produce much more...
and what is he going to do with low oil prices? I read sometimes in the past:
"Venezuela to seize gold concessions as oil falls, Chavez says"
this wont help him at all, but it shows that he is really getting desperate..Comment
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I don't feel like explaining the mechanisms of basic economy and within that, oil prices. Let's just say a single keyword: OPEC. Research and learn.
Anyway, as I said, I don't defend Chavez himself, I just use objectivity and numbers, and that gives me an OBJECTIVE view of economical processes, at least as much as I can. All your subjective views means nothing in real world, I'm talking about hard cold numbers. Hard cold numbers says Venezuela had a continue growth since Chavez got elected, something Venezuela never experienced in its entire history.
This being said: Are you aware that Venezuela had oil before Chavez, right? are you aware that Venezuela is one of the founders of OPEC, and as a matter of fact OPEC an idea of Venezuela's former Minister of Energy Juan Pablo Perez Alfonso? If you are aware of that, maybe you'll be aware of Betancourt's commitment with the "Big Sisters" which caused the fall of Perez Alfonso in Venezuela and Saudi Arabia's Abdullah Tariki, commitment that consisted in Venezuela being just a crude oil exporter with no refineries and set prices with a "cut line", situation that continued until Chavez. Once he decided to not recognize that commitment made almost 50 years ago, and build their own oil transport ships and their own refineries, then he became public enemy #1 to CIA, not because he's a dictator or anything, just because he defends Venezuela's oil production. So, as you can see, not only you need the numbers, but you need contextualization (did you ever hear the terms "Cold War"?), macro economy knowledge, political history and geo strategic knowledge to understand just a little bit of what's going on. And no, I don't have all that knowledge, but learn from people that have it and researched for decades on the subject.
btw, Chavez didn't go further than Bolivia's Morales, Ecuador's Correa or Argentina's Kirchner, yet you don't hear anything about them, even though there's a very clear risk of an energetic crisis and political revolts. Why? Because they don't export oil to US. And just so you know, US is the main commercial partner of the "dictator". But who's counting...
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Oh no
Even smart guys Colin are drinking the kool-aid now.
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Wow, you've information nobody else in the world has, you'd sell it and make millions, that kind of information is really valuable, and I mean it.Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
Or, in real world:
First of all, it's 12 billion
Second, it's the first time I hear Exxon is British
Third, they got a freeze of assets in British and Dutch markets, which is not even firm since Venezuela appealed in Le Havre court
Fourth, you're confusing the conflict between Ecuador and Chrevron in international courts over pollution and rainforest cleaning, which yes, it's 16 billions.
Fifth, even if they take those 16 billions (assuming you at least knew the real amount), it's the price for the nationalization of the Cerro Negro oil explotation in the Orinoco Belt. This way Venezuela gets EXACTLY the 41.66% of this explotation for, believe it or not, pennies. Let's just say for reference purposes it's 11.4% of US defense budget for 2008 alone, most of that budget went to Irak and the oil war. So US spent trillions to get the oil from Irak and Venezuel might be paying 12 billions for total control of one of the largest oil reservoirs in the world with the biggest reserve of heavy oil ever found. How stupid
But you're right, I don't have a clue about what am I talking about
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This thread makes me, LOL.
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shit. i smell gas rate hikesComment
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That's a great loss...I'm just a newbie.Comment
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I am posting a 2 dollar loss now, I bought some sweets that tasted like ass and had to dump them. Can I get some tax payer money now to even out my loss ?Comment
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lizard peopleComment
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dude I stated only facts, which you should know, if you do economic research there. you didnt provide any reply to my facts.I don't feel like explaining the mechanisms of basic economy and within that, oil prices. Let's just say a single keyword: OPEC. Research and learn.
Anyway, as I said, I don't defend Chavez himself, I just use objectivity and numbers, and that gives me an OBJECTIVE view of economical processes, at least as much as I can. All your subjective views means nothing in real world, I'm talking about hard cold numbers. Hard cold numbers says Venezuela had a continue growth since Chavez got elected, something Venezuela never experienced in its entire history.
when it comes to the OPEC limits, there was only one country (venezuela) unable to raise production while being able to do that with rising prices. Most OPEC memebers officialy cheated on their quotas with high oil prices - and it was not problem for OPEC at all.Originally posted by teomax
again, what are your cold hard facts against my facts...
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just one argument, which proves you are talking bullshit against your last fact
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela
"From the 1950s to the early 1980s the Venezuelan economy was the strongest in South America" and "During Jimenez' dictatorship from 1952 to 1958, Venezuela enjoyed remarkably high GDP growth, so that in the late 1950s Venezuela's real GDP per capita almost reached West Germany's GDP per capita."
and
"From 2002 to 2003 there was a sharp drop in investment and a general recession. Total GDP decreased 18.5% in 2002 and 2003. This was the steepest decline in Venezuela's history. The hardest hit sectors were construction (-55.9%), petroleum (-26.5%), commerce (-23.6%) and manufacturing (-22.5%). In 2002, the Venezuelan economy, as measured by Gross domestic product (GDP), contracted by 8.9%."
theres your best times of Venzuela economy and your myth of continued growth under ChavezLast edited by teomaxxx; 01-29-2009, 06:32 AM.Comment
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Chavez is like Putin to the Russians - the oil price went up and they think it was their great leader that did the magicSince I work as an economic analysis journalist for Latin American markets, I'd say I'm more or less informed on what I'm talking about. But since you don't seem to believe me, let's see what Bloomberg says.
As you may see by only looking for adequate sources of information, Venezuela slowed down its growth to only 4.9%. So yes, as I said, they were hitted, but it wasn't such a big deal as in many other countries.
And that's what explains why Chavez won the last elections despite all the propaganda against him, and if he wins the Constitution Change ballot he will win again: his economy plans (well, Ali Rodriguez's plans) are probably the best ever seen in Venezuela and most of Latin America
But don't believe me, I've no idea what I'm talking about
"In spite of a presidential term limit of 6 years, Chávez has suggested that he would like to remain in power for 25 years,[32] a claim he denies as a misinterpretation of his intent.[33] However he recently proposed a constitutionally binding referendum to allow for a third term"
sounds more and more like Bob Mugabe - he started as a great guy, then he really liked being on top and turned his country into a shitholeComment
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Right. They had to write down the value of their assets. Those asset price changes are real in that they are oil and gas - which are now worth considerably less than they were. Directly in that the value of the natural gas purchased in the Burlington deal is now worth less than it was and indirectly in that their 20% ownership of Lukoil is now worth less; which is partly attributable to the fall in energy prices. And ok, give some credit to the Russian stock market and equities in general there too.
The conspiracy theories out there would have led you to believe companies like Conoco, Exxon and BP were able to push prices up over $140/barrel in order to create the profits of the past few years.
The truth is those companies reserves are dwarved by the size of the big nationals; Saudi Aramco, National Iranian, Qatar General Petro, Kuwait Petro and so on.
Even in that case there was so much speculative money in futures it is not clear to what degree even they can control prices. Though certainly a lot more Exxon, BP and Conoco can.
skype = "adultdatelink"Comment
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It won't just be one. "Exxon Mobil profit falls 33% on lower oil price"
No, think whatever you want about energy companies. Everyone has different perspectives, interests and life experiences. Because of that some people will have positive views of energy companies and others negative. energy companies helped me to substantially beat the market the past few years. My view is pretty positive.
My only point is that Exxon and Conoco are not capable of keeping oil prices high enough to continue to have record oil prices. I wouldn't say they have ZERO influence but compared to the real players out there; the nationals; they are pretty small.
skype = "adultdatelink"Comment
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Right... 33% lower in 4th quarter... but up over 5 billion over all.
Don't just take a portion of the news to spin to your advantage.
Exxon posted record profits AGAIN... who did they beat? themselves.
They made over $45.8 billion last year. In one year!!
Let's say that number isn't as high next year due to gas prices, it will still likely be higher than the number when they broke the record 2 or 3 years ago.
Is that supposed to make us feel better about it? That they're not so bad?Comment
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Wrong they are not the oil and gas assets, they are buildings, and refinerys, and contracts on futures of oil that they bought to push the price of oil up to make more on selling oil. ETc.
Its not a conspiracy theory go look up the transaction records of futures purchased by the three companies.
Reserves have nothing to do with increasing the price of oil thru speculation and futures.
The last point this is how the price of oil is determined by futures and estimates of demand, the three companies involved and some very large hedge funds as well as opec providors pushed the price of oil up to reap rewards on short term futures market as well as to increase revenue quickly with refinery and wholesale price increases, its simple business.I could give two shits wether you read this sig or not.Comment
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