I've never seen any other cops doing that, do they all have drinking problem and their hands shake badly or is there another reason?????
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they do it because that is the proper way to hold a gun.Originally posted by AntonioAdult Merchant Accounts & Chargeback Management Solutions
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To cultivate the belief among the citizenry that the combined action of 2 hands is somehow more determined, more considered, more thoroughly-willed, more careful, more valid, and therefore farther ABOVE moral scrutiny than the actions of 1.
2hptada!Comment
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Originally posted by Anthony
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Modern Weaver
It was Cooper and John Plahn who refined the modern Weaver Stance, as we know it today. Although Weaver himself used it solely for more reliable accuracy, Cooper found that adding isometric tension also aided in recoil management. The shooter needed to push out with the gun arm with the same amount of force as the support hand was pulling in. The Classic Weaver has about seven key coordinates. Feet are in a boxerhahaha8217;s stance with the gun foot to the rear and the knees locked. The support arm is sharply bent with the elbow tucked in to the body and pointing toward the ground. Gun arm pushes out as support arm pulls in. You may or may not have to then tip your head down or to the side to see the sights. The FBI liked it. So much so they adopted it as doctrine circa 1981 as I recall.
The Weaver does tend to fall apart under extreme stress. As we all know by now, fine motor dexterity is lost and replaced with exaggerated strength. The equal amount of force the shooter was applying in his isometric hold becomes a case of strong hand overpowering the weak. This will cause the right-handed shooter to throw his shots to the left. The "locked up" position of the Weaver lends itself poorly to traversing, making it necessary to move the feet to address targets to the flank. Last but not least, most body armor is open on the sides so unfortunately the boxerhahaha8217;s stance presents that opening to incoming hostile fire. If you are cross eye dominant, right-handed but "left-eyed" if you will, rotating the head to bring the chin or cheek to the shooting arm bicep should get the dominant eye lined up with the sights.
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goddman double post.
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Originally posted by Anthony
I have no doubt that when you stand still and shoot at birds holding your gun with both hands will improve your accuracy, what I meant is they do that when they enter a house full of armed drug dealers for example - and then holding your gun with both hands restricts your movements - it is simply unnatural, and these are the times when you can not afford the luxury of slow(er) movements, no?Last edited by Antonio; 08-21-2006, 12:14 PM.Comment
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so you can aim better?
wasnt that the obvious answer?Comment
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So you are speaking out of ignorance and your own views?Originally posted by Antonio
You think a 2 handed grip is going to restrict movement? You've watched too many cop movies.
The Modified Weaver is dogma among law enforcement, and the military because it is a stable platform that ensures consistent aim while compensating for recoil.
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The proper way to hold a gun is sideways with your right hand like a gangsta. :DComment
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You must lead an interesting life. I have never been in a house full of armed drug dealers getting raided by the police in the United States, and I have lived here for 23 years. You live on the other side of the world!Originally posted by AntonioVacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted
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exactly...Originally posted by JarmuschComment
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Originally posted by JakeR
Pretty much, yeah.Comment
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[QUOTE=Anthony]So you are speaking out of ignorance and your own views?
Well, I was two years in the army, and my father was a cop all his life, he thought it was wrong and so do I.
I watched the Olimpics - none of the athlets there was running with both his hands strethed in front of him, I wonder why...Originally posted by AnthonyComment
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Well.. that drinking problem is one aspectOriginally posted by Antonio
Common first tactic in an out of control scenario with law enforcement is get behind a sold wall
Next, is take your time and assess. Ya will have decided to either shoot to kill or disable - then it's take accurate aim with both hands and press the trigger.
If all else fails... adopt the "live to shoot another day" law enforcement rule - run like hell - like you have never ran in your life before - if shoes slow ya down, dump em and run barefoot - you will never notice the pain
I know damn all about this stuff Antonio - only picked it up from a couple of people who did know - and it saved their asses numerous times. Appears the norm is both hands on the weapon.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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we have Discovery on the other side of the Wold, watch it every now and then, you'll love itOriginally posted by SlyComment
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It's plain and simple, Stability and Accuracy. What's not to understand?
"The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hopes for Peace in Our Time, in the United States or any other country. Make no mistake about it: We are At War now -- with somebody -- and we will stay At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives." H.S.T. 09/12/01Comment
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Sounds like you have never fired a pistol and know anyone who has.Originally posted by AntonioComment
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Double post
"The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hopes for Peace in Our Time, in the United States or any other country. Make no mistake about it: We are At War now -- with somebody -- and we will stay At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives." H.S.T. 09/12/01Comment
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[QUOTE=Antonio]Okay, I gave you enough rope...Originally posted by Anthony
When the adrenal dump occurs, you lose all fine motor skills. Comparing olympic shooting, where no one is shooting back to a shootout between a cop and drug dealers is beyond sane.
Modified weaver stance provides a stable platform where consistent shots can be fired. So does the isoceles, and others that use both hands.
I doubt you have fired a gun as again, military and Law Enforcement teach both hands for combat shooting. As for your father, the modified weaver/isoceles, etc stances came into play in the late 70's early 80's.
Get that distinction, COMBAT SHOOTING IS NOT OLYMPIC SHOOTING.
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that's a stupid question. have you ever shot a handgun?Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.Comment
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Originally posted by Darkland
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exactly what i was thinking...Originally posted by dvd316TAEMDLRMSKRJIXMRLSMRJ.Comment
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Because you have more control over the weapon, simple as that.Comment
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hahaha i think you watch too much gangsta movies...
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More jugs, less smilies.Originally posted by HaleyH
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Originally posted by Antonio
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well, both parties are right. You use the Isosceles everytime you have the chance, specially on high caliber handguns since it will give you more accuracy. Now, if you are on a dynamic gunfight where you have to move, the best way is one handed and offering the less target surface, which means you can't face fire gun with all your body exposed like on isosceles or chapman or weaver unless you like your body with a lot more plumb and a lot less fluids. Basically, to use the 2 hands you need to be in a position where a) you aren't being fired b) you're shooting from behind 3/4 of your body protected, like a car c) you're fully protected, and you jump at the side to shoot and get back to protection d) you're prone shooting
I think those saying the way to properly shoot is using two hands stands are polygon shooters, which make sense. But armed and security forces have to face a lot of situations where 2 hands shooting is simply impossible, anyone who was in the army knows this.
btw, the gangsta drug dealers example is really funny. Not to mention the Olympics example
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Thing is though, anyone who has been trained to fire weapons in a battle situation KNOWS you can still fire a handgun presenting only the sides of your body (least visible target by another shooter) AND utilizing two hands. If you think in order to fire two handed it requires you to square your full body towards the shooter you haven't spent enough time behind a gun. Not to say there isn't going to be situations where two hands isn't a viable option depending on obstacles/surroundings, pinned down, etc. But most "Police" situations affords you the ability to use a proper, controlled and accurate use of two hands.Originally posted by alan-lwell, both parties are right. You use the Isosceles everytime you have the chance, specially on high caliber handguns since it will give you more accuracy. Now, if you are on a dynamic gunfight where you have to move, the best way is one handed and offering the less target surface, which means you can't face fire gun with all your body exposed like on isosceles or chapman or weaver unless you like your body with a lot more plumb and a lot less fluids. Basically, to use the 2 hands you need to be in a position where a) you aren't being fired b) you're shooting from behind 3/4 of your body protected, like a car c) you're fully protected, and you jump at the side to shoot and get back to protection d) you're prone shooting
I think those saying the way to properly shoot is using two hands stands are polygon shooters, which make sense. But armed and security forces have to face a lot of situations where 2 hands shooting is simply impossible, anyone who was in the army knows this.
btw, the gangsta drug dealers example is really funny. Not to mention the Olympics example
"The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hopes for Peace in Our Time, in the United States or any other country. Make no mistake about it: We are At War now -- with somebody -- and we will stay At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives." H.S.T. 09/12/01Comment
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Originally posted by Jarmusch pimp
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Originally posted by Solid BobNo idea, they should be doing this.
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well, that's why I said both parties are right. Sadly, I spent some time behind a gun, nothing I'm proud of for reasons I won't comment.Originally posted by Darkland
You're right on that you don't NEED to present your full body, but it happens most of the time, hence you're trained not to do that in combat. Besides, in the army most of the times you'll fire with long weapons, not handguns, you'll use handguns mostly in training, mainly for urban combat. I agree with the police situations, and if you read what I wrote before, you'll see the possible situations where you'll be able to use 2 hands shooting will happen mostly in police duty (or feds or anything else than army).Comment
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Here in LA they go 1 hand.
Something about square exposure, they do not want a wide frame to be shot at.
I seen them hold one hand outside a liquor store to boot.
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PS: In the Military Police they train one arm as well with a 45, two arm in prone positions.
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Oh and Personally.
I prefer One Arm myself.
Secondly...
You do not shoot with your hands. You shoot with your arm(s).Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 08-21-2006, 03:58 PM.
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We are the gun capitol of the world. Do not question our techniques.Comment
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so we all should take lessons from American cops.Comment
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Cuz they aren't Cops dumbass. Holding a gun with both hands is the proper way to fire a gun, end of story, thank you and goodnight.Originally posted by AntonioComment
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Originally posted by Solid BobNo idea, they should be doing this.
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[QUOTE=Antonio]i'd rather be ready to shoot someone with a gun accurately than to try and outrun a bullet, thats just me though.Originally posted by AnthonyI host with VacaresComment
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plus it allows one free while you are shooting so you can grab your cock and say shit you heard in Scarface.Originally posted by Jarmusch
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its what they are taught and it works.Comment
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There to weak to hold the gunComment
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It's so they can shoot black people easier.
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Your gun, hold the way you want. If you have the shakes, ya have a better chance with two hands. That's provided you're not shot first.Comment
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