51 dodges of the bullet
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I guess since we all can put the pieces together from what has come out on the boards, my question is, why weren't the rebills paid, AND what was Naked Rhino planning on doing about the unpaid rebills? cause it is obvious they weren't planning on paying them......where they going to switch affiliate backends or something and hope that no one noticed?
there is a lot of unanswered questions going on, and I think affiliates deserve some answers...some REAL answers, not PR fluff!!!!Comment
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here is what I am wonderingOriginally posted by spacedog
there was a post in that other thread by someone that stated that NATS contacted them about a similar issue a while back....ok, so let's break this down
I need NATS owners to figure out when they were contacted about this issue. Then add up the months from them til now. Now affiliates of Xclusive need to figure out, somehow, what percentage of their sales were via CCBILL....now compare your epoch rebills with ccbill rebills and you will see an average of what is owed
I definitely think that the key to all this is that post in the other thread about NATS contacting program owners of a glitch a few months back, maybe more than a few months even...because if all NATS program owners were contacted about this glitch, then we have a nice place to start in figuring all this out on our own
can any NATS owners come forward and let us know when they had a glitch fixed 3-6 months ago?Comment
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I guess I'll have to settle for 2nd page sig spot..Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
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haha! I'm going to have to steal that and start using it, sorryOriginally posted by Franck
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and oh yeah, since Chris decided to post this thread at 11:30 on a Saturday night, I will be sure and bump it every 4 hours or so until Monday morning, when people will actually be hereComment
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We all will :-D hahaOriginally posted by JaceComment
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Something doesn't jive, a call on a cell phone sounds like a far stretch from profanity and releasing the call.Free agentComment
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I really can't comment on this as it is in the hands of our lawyers at this point. I will restate a bit of what has already been said.
There was a discrepancy in the rebill numbers. We were turned onto this by someone else. I called Chris to resolve it with him and was cursed at and hung up on. There are rebill import problems with NATS programs from time to time for various reasons. We ALWAYS work with the program owner to get them resolved and program owners have ALWAYS been more than happy to get them fixed. For example look at the Mayor's Money issue a while back where everyone got lots of rebills in a day. That is an example of it.
After the initial call the license was suspended and the post was made. We have always said from day one that we will be very transparent with people when we feel there may be a case of something not being done right.
At this point we felt after telling them there was a discrepancy in stats and getting a "yeah, and?" type response, then simply explaining that all rebills would need to be imported, placed in stats, and paid out on and being told off and hung up on is something not being done right.
Right after making the post (not sure if they had seen it yet or not) a much calmer call was received with both Chris and Tucker on the phone and they indicated that they knew nothing of stats discrepancies and were going to call me the following day after speaking with CCBill.
The following day we received a letter of intent to file suit over the original post stating what had happened.
Regarding admining the program, we do not admin any NATS clients. All NATS clients know this.
I do not know if there was intent on Chris's part to not pay out on the rebills. I have heard both answers from several people. That had nothing at all to do with our initial call. It was simply to resolve discrepancies as has happened with other programs in the past. There have been a number of chances for this to be resolved quickly and easily but unfortunately that has not happened.
I have no problem enabling the admin with both of our attornies on the phone and showing them the stats issue, however I have been asked by N.R. Media's attorney not to speak with them and that is what I am doing at this point. It is in the hands of our lawyers and they are determining what should be done next.
This will be my only post on the subject until then.Comment
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Only in America.Originally posted by PBucksJohn
Free agentComment
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daaaammnComment
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wow, so Naked Rhino is not letting NATS speak to them directly?
hahahaha...wow, if that doesn't say in black and white exactly what is happening, then I dont' what would
sorry you tried to rip off webmasters xclusive, but this is what you get!!!
edit: Oh wait should I retract, or will I get a letter of intent to sue?Last edited by Jace; 08-12-2006, 10:45 PM.Comment
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crap, i knew i wanted to make a fake nick for a reasonOriginally posted by Jace
Oxeo - Serious Hosting For Serious Webmasters. iCQ:135.887013Comment
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hahahahaOriginally posted by XxXoticcrap, i knew i wanted to make a fake nick for a reasonComment
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I predict lawyers getting richer on both sides...
ADG WebmasterComment
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thanks kreskinOriginally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
I predict lawyers getting richer on both sides...
ADG Webmaster
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I find it incredible that you set about trying to ruin one of your OWN CLIENTS reputations before you have any FACTS at all - in fact before before any sort of investigation has been carried out because you got a mouthful from the client.Originally posted by PBucksJohn
I just hope that the real profesionals on the board that use NATS or are thinking about it are taking notes. This involves many millions of dollars of real miney and this is how companies bahave.
I really am astonished by this ......
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I would never in a million years do that. I have been treated much worse in the past by clients. I had no problem with Chris at all prior to this.Originally posted by damian2001I find it incredible that you set about trying to ruin one of your OWN CLIENTS reputations before you have any FACTS at all - in fact before before any sort of investigation has been carried out because you got a mouthful from the client.
I just hope that the real profesionals on the board that use NATS or are thinking about it are taking notes. This involves many millions of dollars of real miney and this is how companies bahave.
I really am astonished by this ......
I also believe we have more facts about the situation than you do.
edit: perhaps I should have added in my original post that we verified the stats discrepancy ourselves prior to the initial call to Chris.Last edited by TMM_John; 08-12-2006, 11:21 PM.Comment
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dude, trust me when I say that TMM would not be doing what they are doing without consulting with their lawyers first.Originally posted by damian2001I find it incredible that you set about trying to ruin one of your OWN CLIENTS reputations before you have any FACTS at all - in fact before before any sort of investigation has been carried out because you got a mouthful from the client.
I just hope that the real profesionals on the board that use NATS or are thinking about it are taking notes. This involves many millions of dollars of real miney and this is how companies bahave.
I really am astonished by this ......
when SonOfJesus said one million rubals in another thread, I tend to believe he know what he was talking about...Comment
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"Paging the SonOfJesus...SonOfJesus are you there?"
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You stated clearly in the first post yesterday that you didnt actually KNOW anything at all - just assumptions.Originally posted by PBucksJohn
Its the first time I have seen a threat to sue on GFY that I have actually agreed with - and that has any merit.Comment
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and slowly the chips begin to fall into place
Oxeo - Serious Hosting For Serious Webmasters. iCQ:135.887013Comment
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Originally posted by damian2001Was my original post.This is a notification that Too Much Media, makers of the NATS affiliate system, have been forced to temporarily suspend the NATS license belonging to N.R. Media, owners and operators of Xclusivecash.com
There was a discrepency between the number of rebills reported to the NATS system from the rebills reported by CCBill. upon attempting to rectify the situation with executives of N.R. Media Too Much Media was met with full resistance and profanity as well as an abruptly terminated phone call.
At which point N.R. Media agrees to fully repopulate the CCBill rebill data to represent the correct figures Too Much Media will reinstate the NATS license.
The suspension of the NATS license will not effect ongoing affiliate sales. It will only disable the adminstration area of NATS so that the program is rendered unusable until the situation is sorted out.Comment
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the first post said there WAS discrepencies...i don't know how much more clear John could get in saying that the rebills weren't adding upOriginally posted by damian2001Comment
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Thats not paraphrasing, thats a totally different statement.Originally posted by damian2001Comment
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Originally posted by PBucksJohn
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There had been no investigation into why there where discepencies - the thread was made to insinuate that they were shaving before anything had been looked into.Originally posted by Jace
Thanks for posting the origional John - I think you made my point.Comment
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how do you know that? wtf dudeOriginally posted by damian2001
do you have some hacked info from mail servers?
maybe you are in touch with their lawyers?
do you work for ccbill?
do you work for TMM?
if yu checked none of the above, then YOU might be as asshat
there are steps that anyone has to take, and usuauly information that is made public is about 2 steps behind what is actually taking place...anyone that has been involved in a lawsuit or seen shit go down first hand knows how it works
so, what YOU, the common webmaster see, is a little behind from what is actually taking placeComment
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and oh yeah, I would venture to guess that TMM and CCBILL had already been in touch and saw an anomoly before they ever posted anything on gfyOriginally posted by damian2001
and also, would you rather they not post anything publicly, and allow webmasters to still send traffic?
whether there is wrong doing or not, it will get sorted out, and until that time I don't think the program in question should be recieving webmaster traffic...the best thing for everyone involved is to pull the plug
I am also pretty positive that if it does come down to the fact that there was no wrong doing, that NATS will make that fact very publicComment
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No reputation has been ruined, and especially on GFY. Anyone can go from asshole to saint here in a matter of minutes with the right type of response.Originally posted by damian2001I find it incredible that you set about trying to ruin one of your OWN CLIENTS reputations before you have any FACTS at all - in fact before before any sort of investigation has been carried out because you got a mouthful from the client.
I just hope that the real profesionals on the board that use NATS or are thinking about it are taking notes. This involves many millions of dollars of real miney and this is how companies bahave.
I really am astonished by this ......
This has yet to be seen. It could still happen though
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John says it right hereOriginally posted by Jace
A simple question that hasnt been answered, that will clear it up -There was a discrepency between the number of rebills reported to the NATS system from the rebills reported by CCBill. upon attempting to rectify the situation with executives of N.R. Media Too Much Media was met with full resistance and profanity as well as an abruptly terminated phone call.
John have you any evidence that they are shaving or is it just speculation?Comment
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read that statement again, you are not reading it rightOriginally posted by damian2001
what it says is this....
we talked to ccbill and the data between ccbill and Nats didn't add up when it came to rebills. We tried to contact the Nats license owner about it, and he hung up on us.Comment
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LOL...oh wait, you are right....NATS just took a guess and thought that xclusive cash looked like a bad program, so they called them out hoping they would come forward, but NATS had no info to support anything they saidOriginally posted by damian2001
NATS decided they woul;d put their entire business and operations on the line because of a guess...LOL
jesus, what world do you live in?Comment
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He never accused them of shaving, he said there were discrepencies in the number of rebills being reported. What part of that are you not getting? Everyone else accused them of shaving, John did not. He said things didn't add up, he contacted them about it to try to fix it, they cursed and hung up. Maybe slow down and read every word. Not every other word.Originally posted by damian2001Last edited by XxXotic; 08-13-2006, 12:00 AM.Oxeo - Serious Hosting For Serious Webmasters. iCQ:135.887013Comment
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So you read that as "This data shows they shave"? - because that was insuated and thats how most took it.Originally posted by Jace
I read it as "We have a data discrepency that shows something is wrong, we dont know what it is yet"Comment
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It was insuated by the tone and wording of the post - as you well know.Originally posted by XxXoticHe never accused them of shaving, he said there were discrepencies in the number of rebills being reported. What part of that are you not getting? Everyone else accused them of shaving, John did not. He said things didn't add up, he contacted them about it to try to fix it, they cursed and hung up. Maybe slow down and read every word. Not every other word.
And by his statement, I think its safe to assume yes he has "evidence" since he spoke to CCBill directly and they confirmed it didn't match up. But what do I know?
He was perfectly aware of what the effect of the post would be - to damage their reputation.Last edited by Damian_Maxcash; 08-13-2006, 12:01 AM.Comment
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He also stated that this type of discrepency has occoured before (Mayor's Money) and was corrected with cooperation on the program's part. Something that could have happened here had that phone call gone smoother I would assume.Originally posted by damian2001Free agentComment
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Again - That makes my point - The problem was the phone call - and its not a good enough reason to do what he did.Originally posted by jact
The fact there has been a similar issue in past makes it even more likly that this is a tech issue and shouldnt have come to the board until it was clarified.Last edited by Damian_Maxcash; 08-13-2006, 12:19 AM.Comment
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what if it had been a tech issue from 6 months ago that was never cleared up, and xclusive knew all along that there was an issue? what if xclusive cash purposely never fixed it so that they got the rebills?Originally posted by damian2001
what if that one single phone call was to figure it all out and get the 6 months worth of data corrected, and NATS was only met with a "fuck you"?
the way I see it, if this is as serious as it looks to be, xclusive cash just told TMM to go fuck themselves when TMM was just trying to make things right and get affiliates their money
I am just taking a stab in the dark though.Comment
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sig spottingComment
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Even if it was a technical glitch, how the fuck did they not notice?Originally posted by damian2001Comment
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Originally posted by pocketkangaroo
Again just more speculation - If I came to the board and acused someone of cheating everyone would scream for proof or shut the fuck up - John has said he hasnt been able to look into it enough and prove anything, the fact that it has been an issue before should also tell you something.Comment
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wow, i hope you are never on a jury! you seem to perceive things no one else does.
Originally posted by damian2001Got Gay and For Women Traffic?
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But Too Much Media isn't some guy who got screwed on a link trade. They run one of the most respected and used programs in adult. I just can't imagine them doing this without having some really good info.Originally posted by damian2001
Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am, TMM just made one of the dumbest fucking moves in the history of this business. They would have single handidly destroyed their reputation over some board drama.Comment
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Originally posted by basschick
He would have found Robert Blake guilty of killing Nicole SimpsonComment
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Hey, maybe they're not telling you everything they know!Originally posted by damian2001---'-,-{@ Sassy Grrrl @}-'-,---
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Originally posted by pocketkangaroo
They might have been advised to make the issue public because affiliates were still sending traffic. Allowing others to loose money is also not a good call.
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well good to see this thing from other side of the wallComment
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