Originally posted by Winetalk
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im answering 4 people at once here , hold your horses
hatisblack at yahoo.com -
Im all for intelligent debate - but please stop abusing the phrase "baby killing" - the hyperbole is completely unnecessary. Choice of language is highly indicative of political mandate, and yours is clear. Argue your point based on the senseless killing if civilians: baby, teenager, man, woman - there's no need to discriminate. The added drama of the phrase "baby-killing" doesnt change any of the realities of the arugable points.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearI died.Comment
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Smokey,
To be fair to your peace is the way solution, it was tried once before. please read this quick history of the mideast.
Nov 2, 1917 British issued the Balfour Declaration, viewed by Jews and Arabs as promising a ?National Home? for the Jews in Palestine.
1936-1939 Arab Revolt led by Haj Amin Al-Husseini. Over 5,000 Arabs were killed according to some sources, mostly by British. Several hundred Jews were killed by Arabs. Husseini fled to Iraq and then to Nazi Germany.
May 15, 1948 Israel War of Independence (1948 War). Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State; British leave Palestine; Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan,
Saudi Arabia declared war on Israel. Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian invasion began.
April 3, 1949 Armistice - Israel and Arab states agree to armistice. Israel gained about 50% more territory than was originally allotted to it by the UN Partition Plan.
Oct. 29, 1956 Suez Campaign. In retaliation for a series of escalating border raids as well as the closure of the straits of Tiran and Suez canal to Israeli shipping, and to prevent Egyptian use of newly acquired Soviet arms in a war, Israel invades the Sinai peninsula and occupies it for several months, with French and British collaboration.
May, 1964 PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) founded with the aim of destroying Israel. The Palestinian National Charter (1968) officially called for liquidation of Israel.
May, 1967 Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser closes the straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and dismisses UN peacekeeping force. Negotiations with US to reopen the Straits of Tiran fail.
June 5-10,1967 6-day war . Israel destroys the Egyptian air force on the ground, conquers and occupies Sinai and Gaza, then conquers the West Bank from Jordan, and Golan Heights from Syria. UN resolution 242 called for Israeli withdrawal, establishment of peace.
Oct. 6, 1973 Yom Kippur War (October War). In a surprise attack on the Jewish day of atonement, Egypt retook the Suez canal and a narrow zone on the other side. Syria reconquered the Golan Heights. Following massive US and Soviet resupplying of the sides, Israel succeeded in pushing back the Syrians and threatening Damascus. In Sinai, the IDF crossed the Suez Canal and cut off the Egyptian Third Army.
March 26, 1979 Peace treaty signed between Egypt and Israel.
June 7, 1981 Israel destroys Iraqi nuclear reactor in daring raid.
Oct. 6, 1981 Egyptian President Anwar Sadat is assassinated while on the reviewing stand of a victory parade.
one of the only arab leaders in history to want a real peace with israel was assassinated by the same people you would like israel to make peace with today.Comment
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i'm not a history book , but it was nowhere near the amount of soldiers killed and certainly not multiple times higher than the amount of sildiers killed..Originally posted by Winetalk
Thats the difference
hitler declared war first .. lebanon didnt decalre war and if israel asked " wanna war" im sure lebanon would have said " no "Originally posted by Winetalkhatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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heh to be fair it "sort of" has been tried but no it hasnt been fully tried . like zero guns.. and no the entire mideast conflict in the last 100 years cant be boiled down to a dozen key points.. i wish . the problem is all the people arguing about it and doing nothing.. at least it would have been tried.. whats your solution ?Originally posted by rs1hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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The difference is the nazis did not hide behind thier children while fighting.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
Actually Lebanon attacked Israel first so just becuase it was not Declared in a official speech they cross into israel and kidnapped to solders.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearComment
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Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
ok lets talk reality, we both know thiers not gonna be a disapearance of guns in the Mideast. so think of the next best solution.. how to keep people at peace when you hate them.
Couple of questions...
1. do you think israel enjoys war and dores not want to live in peace?
2. do you think moderate arab nations want peace or war?
lets start with those questionsComment
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nobody seems to want to debate fairly they want to stick words in my mouth. i mentioned baby killing ( as i have pointed out now several times ) BECAUSE BABIES are bing killed like today like yesterday like the day before. a whole canadian family was blown away that were on vacation..Originally posted by Dollarmanstevehatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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no they didnt hezbollah did.. lebanon army has not joined the conflict.Originally posted by rs1hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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why ask me questions you know the answer too.Originally posted by rs1
everyone wants to live or they would just kill themselves..hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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Yes, everyone knows that - the news is widely available on the television and internet. What Im saying is that the choice to use that phrase serves absolutely no purpose in the argument - it is inflammatory language that's only purpose is to dramatize/sensationalize the issue.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearI died.Comment
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ahhh...the moment of truth.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
http://www.worldwar-2.net/casualties...ties-index.htm
(which is #1 reason we come to gfy, don't we?)
Germany
Status: Independent
Type of Government: Dictatorship
Religion: Christian
Population: 73,000,000 (1938)
Germans - 70,990,000
Poles - 1,000,000
Jews - 707,000
Russians - 200,000
Danes - 30,000
Gypsies - 28,000
Wends - 20,000
Frisians - 15,000
Lithuanians - 10,000
Casualties (1939 - 1945):
Soldiers (Axis) - 3,350,000 Killed
Civilians - 3,043,000 Killed
Jews - 205,500 Killed
Gypsies - 20,000 Killed
Israel asked for the return of the soldiers - Lebanon said NO!hitler declared war first .. lebanon didnt decalre war and if israel asked " wanna war" im sure lebanon would have said " no "
How many more soldiers should have been kidnapped, civilians blown up by terrorists before Israel had to stop singing Kumbaya in binary?***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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why do you continue to go in circles , you know very well lebanon didnt invade israel yet you try to slant it into them doing it.. if the "crips" kidnapped 2 soldiers from tijuana , would you say " USA INVADED MEXICO " of course you wouldnt , and you know this.. so why the spin ?hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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rs, Hezbollah has done it as an act of friendship...they were afraid that those soldiers were mistreated by the Zionist Regime.Originally posted by rs1***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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..and what exactly UN and the rest of the world has done the American tourists and children being blown by terrorists in Tel Aviv Pizza Hut?Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
Well i disagree. hezbollah makes up about 40% of the lebonon elected goverment. hence if 1/2 your elected government attacks israel then your country as a whole did the attack.
You don't hear the Arabs yelling for the heads of the republicans while leaving the democrats out. you cannot separate your government into segments just to avoid the consequences
hezbollah are legal elected party in lebonnon and they must take responsibility for the act of thier elected officialsComment
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you just proved my point .. the death count right now for CHILDREN is far higher than soldiers killed yet in ww2 it was less.. i.e. the allies didnt kill nearly the amount of children that israel is.. thats my whole point in a nutshell.. dont kill kids..Originally posted by Winetalkahhh...the moment of truth.
http://www.worldwar-2.net/casualties...ties-index.htm
(which is #1 reason we come to gfy, don't we?)
Germany
Status: Independent
Type of Government: Dictatorship
Religion: Christian
Population: 73,000,000 (1938)
Germans - 70,990,000
Poles - 1,000,000
Jews - 707,000
Russians - 200,000
Danes - 30,000
Gypsies - 28,000
Wends - 20,000
Frisians - 15,000
Lithuanians - 10,000
Casualties (1939 - 1945):
Soldiers (Axis) - 3,350,000 Killed
Civilians - 3,043,000 Killed
Jews - 205,500 Killed
Gypsies - 20,000 Killed
?
if you extrapolated the numbers from this conflict to match it would be like 3 million soldiers killed 50 million civilians.. killedhatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
ok so if these 2 parties want to live in peace. then why are we here.
Radical Islamic leaders. so how do you solve that.
2 ways
1. Israel , Bombing or
2 arab nations removing them.Comment
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Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
if hezbolah were not elected i would agree, but since they make up a large percentage of the elected goverment you cannot seperate themComment
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Now thats the first intellegent thing iv heard all day LOLOriginally posted by WinetalkComment
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as i recall they ( israel ) hit several houses with bombs after that killing many more civilians than the suicide bomber had killed.. so im not sure the u.n. was needed.. and that was done because of something else and they did that because of some other thing , the old " he hit me first " but nobody will agree on who hit who first, it will never stop until one of them stops hitting the otherOriginally posted by Winetalkhatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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they cant stop , you will always want to attack when your attacked, if nobody can remember who attacked first it will go on until someone takes my advice and stops ( it works every time a war has happened )Originally posted by rs1
flipsideOriginally posted by rs1
Radical Jewish leaders. so how do you solve that.
2 ways
1. Bomb israel or
2 arab nations removing them.
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doesnt sound very good when its reversed does it..hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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actually it does serve a purpose , adults have choices and the ability to hate , babies are incapable of making their own choices or hating people thus its worse to kill a baby than a grown manOriginally posted by Dollarmanstevehatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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Radical jewish leaders do not blow innocent people up. even the most radical jewish leader does not call for the distruction of the arabs. they responde to arab attacks and again thier responce is vocal.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearComment
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so...what exactly is Hezbollah? The bunch of criminals Lebanese army is ready to arrest any day now?Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
Smokey, c'mon, you are an intelligent man. If they don't wear uniforms - it doesn't make them civilians. How many suicide bombers are women? Teenagers? Where is the line between civilian and terrorist?***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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-see war ( and thread title )Originally posted by rs1
radical islamic leaders call for the destruction of israel not jews , theres a difference, you made that mistake earlier im sure theres a few nutjobs out there that feel differently but lots of those on both sidesOriginally posted by rs1hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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you have missed my point completely. Carry on.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearI died.Comment
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Originally posted by rs1
as in my example..
Let's declare war but only on Republicans...how would you do that with arms?***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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no they are a part of a militant party that lebanon was afraid to confront because they were too weak to take them on themselves,, if they confronted them , the whole country would be controlled by hezbollah and back to ten years ago , there was a roadway to peace it was going well , both israel and hezbollah fucked up.Originally posted by Winetalkhatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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you could say that about ww2 just the same way . the women and kids were directly MAKING the guns and ammo for the war in germany yet they still managed to kill 10 times less civilians... makes ya think eh.. how could they be losing , AND killing ten times the civilians as a war that was won..Originally posted by Winetalkhatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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i'd have to agree with winetalk, 12clicks, rs1, etc...
You cannot make the distinction during War. It's called war for a reason. Israel is doing nothing more than defending itself while being surrounded by nothing from pure hate from all the arab countries. You always hear about terrorist attacks on israel but noone ever gives a shit since it's a daily occurance. Yet with the arabs pushing their propaganda hard and fast while using their own people as human shields, now everyone gets all fussy? I don't condone killing of babies - but what option does Israel have? Let the terrorists continue to bomb their homeland? Let them steal and kidnap their soldiers? I think not. IF the arab hizbollah fucks weren't so pussy about their tactics, Israel would wipe them off the earth with no questions asked in a toe to toe battle. That's the reason these fuckers hide behind their civilians - to make israel look more like an enemy, prove to their people that they are evil, raise them with false text that the hollocaust was false, etc. It's total bs...
Programmer
ICQ 44035273 | AIM spritwork | Email spritian at spritian dot comComment
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ok, let's go back and apply the ancient Roman jurisprudence principal in finding the guilty party:Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
Who benefits the most?
Does Israel benefit from the war?
NO
Does Hezbollah benefits from the war?
Yes
Does Syria benefit from the war?
Yes.
(The investigation about the role of Syria in killing Lebanese PM is over now)
Does Iran benefit from the war?
Yes!
(you forgot about their nukes, did ya?)
so......who is benefiting from the death of Lebanese children?***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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not killing babies..Originally posted by naitirps
hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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the numbers I showed show the same numbers of German casualties, civiliand equal military,Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
go re-read the post.***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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are babies intended targets or not?Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearnot killing babies..
Yes or no would suffice.***************************************
Give me the offer I can't refuseComment
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Prediction #2 means prediction #3 is irrelivant.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
Carrying on...Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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so your saying that isreal defending itself and attacking its enemy makes it radical?Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearComment
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nobody benefits.. nor will they.Originally posted by Winetalkhatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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Exactly.Originally posted by Dollarmansteve
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prediction #2 was a biased response predcition #3 was fair.. carry on ...Originally posted by CDSmith
hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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All is fair in love and war. If hezbollah wasn't a terrorist militia organization do you think that'd be happening? Israel warned lebanon prior to bombing with leaflets - because those civilians choose to stay and make the decision for their kids because they want to support hezbollah it's still Israel's fault? As I said, if hezbollah wasn't a bunch of pussies, this wouldn't be happening. What about the rockets fired into Israel that killed israeli children? That's ok? Oh that's right, IT's ok because the numbers are much lower compared to those of supposed 'innocent' lebanon civilians? It's still fucking bullshit.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearnot killing babies..Programmer
ICQ 44035273 | AIM spritwork | Email spritian at spritian dot comComment
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With all due respect smokey, i think you may have your opinion based on location.... the end result is thiers nothing anyone can do to stop radical islam from wanting to kill all jews. Its part of thier teachings and nor you or i can change that. the only way to peace in the mideast is to remove the threat. thier will be innocent people including babys dieing but when its all siad and done when islam fundmetalisim falls peace will take hold.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBearnot killing babies..Comment
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"defending itself " is the whole argument here . killing ten times the amount of people you had killed in 10 years is hardly defending yourself as it is a turkey shoot.Originally posted by rs1hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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you are wrong...Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
hezbollah is the only group to benefit. the more they can show isreal as the bad guy the more mothers will send thier children to join thier group of hate.Comment
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Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
are the rocketsl failing on israel? yes
are the terriosts still hiding behind children? yes
Then israel must continue to defend itsself and distory rocket launchers no matter were they are.
israel agreed to a 48 hour cease fire to allow innocent people to leave there homes. with in 12 hours Rockets fell on israel again.... explain this to meComment
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lets say your in lebanon , you love jews , you hate hezbollah , your 5 , you rparent dont have a car ... what do you do .. bombs landing all around your city.. ?Originally posted by naitirpshatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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Exactly. This is what they want. To show that 'evil' israel is over doing it to gain more popularity with their cause. The dumb recruit the dumb, that will never change. War has always been about propaganda, what boggles my mind is all the anti-israel shit is no different than supporting terrorists themselves.Originally posted by rs1Programmer
ICQ 44035273 | AIM spritwork | Email spritian at spritian dot comComment
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This is another issue I've discussed on another board recently. According to much of the media they expect you to beleive that Hezbollah and Lebanon are completely separate entities and they categorically differentiate between the two. HOWEVER, the Hezbollah didn't just appear out of thin air, they are Lebonese citizens along with insurgents from other regions who are Muslim extremists that are financed by Iran and Syria (as we all know). There also seems to be an inordanant amout of the Hezbola that have the support of towns that they fire their home made rockets from.Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
So although alot of the Lebonese people ARE held captive by those of an extreme form for religion, there are just as many Lebonese who are not only supportive, but are active particapants in the Hezbollah movement.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
the sad thing is , at that point your fucked.
but does not change the fact that its not israels fault you got left behindComment
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