2257 for affiliates only???

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  • slapass
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Nov 2002
    • 14625
    #51
    Originally posted by Matt 26z
    How do some of you come up with this?

    Either an image is sexually explicit and requires 2257, or it's not and doesn't require 2257. A cropped image that is no longer sexually explicit does not require 2257 because 2257 is for sexually explicit content only.

    If you people think otherwise, please point out the section of 2257 that covers "content that was once sexually explicit but is not anymore."
    Do a search for this. If the origianl image was explicit you are screwed with a crop. I cannot find that version of 2257 that is easy to read but will keep looking. It was pretty darn clear in the actual language of the law.

      Comment

      • slapass
        Too lazy to set a custom title
        • Nov 2002
        • 14625
        #52
        here is the link - http://my.execpc.com/~xxxlaw/2257Tables5.24.05.htm

        And I think this is the part that screws us on crops.

        (2) When used in reference to a sexually explicit depiction means the sexually explicit image itself (e.g., a film, an image posted on a web page, an image taken by a webcam, a photo in a magazine, etc.).

          Comment

          • Fire
            Confirmed User
            • Feb 2002
            • 486
            #53
            Originally posted by pocketkangaroo
            How is Google and Yahoo exempt from this?
            They are classified as an Internet Information Retrieval Tool and thus do not need the docs.

            You can read the entire legislation here http://www.govtrack.us/data/us/bills.text/109/h4472.pdf
            Sec 501. pertains to the 2257 record keeping requirements.

              Comment

              • spacedog
                Yes that IS me. Bitch.
                • Nov 2001
                • 14149
                #54
                Originally posted by media
                You run a business correct? You should have had your ducks in a row over a year ago when this stuff first hit the fan.. We went through everything you said above and we had to go through so many hoops to get it, including non disclosure agreements, 10's of thousands of hours of man labor with data entry and organization, you bitch like you have so much to worry about when chances are you use all free content, and have never invested in your own content to use on your own sites to manage your own 2257 like most should be doing. We lost tons of content had to redo tours to use compliant content if we could not find a models docs or were told we would not be supplied them, this is not just all about the affiliates being in trouble, it's also sponsors who are in a tough spot, and the producers who now need to deal with affiliates, affiliate programs, and also they will need to use judgement on who and who they should not give documents to..

                This is a business, you will need to cut your losses and start fresh if you have to.. Sometimes that's the only option if you want to keep moving forward..

                1) Actually, I as a "Secondary Producer", have been exempt from the record keeping requirements til now

                2) I have invested in my own content

                3) The only bitching is because of others unwillingness to be cooperative in sharing documentation so that all would be compliant. It is a partnership afterall, correct?

                4) No losses on my end to worry about. I have my ducks in a row, except for sponsor content,, that's the only content I have to worry aout when it comes to 2257.

                  Comment

                  • jayeff
                    Confirmed User
                    • May 2001
                    • 2944
                    #55
                    oops5678
                    Last edited by jayeff; 07-25-2006, 08:05 PM.

                      Comment

                      • vanillaice
                        Confirmed User
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 512
                        #56
                        So does anyone have a good answer for the original question regarding secondary producers (affiliates)?

                        Will this kill free sites / galleries?

                          Comment

                          • spacedog
                            Yes that IS me. Bitch.
                            • Nov 2001
                            • 14149
                            #57
                            It was so much simpler before to just list the sponsor(s) as the custodian of records, whereas now, the changes require "secondary producers" to be their own custodian of records.. (I think.. correct me If I am wrong.. this is more of a question, than a statement.. I am looking for clarification.)

                              Comment

                              • Sexxxy Sites
                                Confirmed User
                                • Oct 2005
                                • 851
                                #58
                                Originally posted by spacedog
                                It was so much simpler before to just list the sponsor(s) as the custodian of records, whereas now, the changes require "secondary producers" to be their own custodian of records.. (I think.. correct me If I am wrong.. this is more of a question, than a statement.. I am looking for clarification.)
                                Since last year "secondary producers" have been required to be the custodian of records. FSC members were supposedly exempt from this as the FSC filed a lawsuit. I do not know if the forth coming law witll override the FSC lawsuit or not. There seems to be different legal opinions about that.

                                What most people do not seem to understand that even if the FSC won their lawsuit it would only cover those that live within that courts district and would not be binding on another court district. Those in the pornography business are at risk, end of story. One is subject to legal prosecution for any number of things, community standards "defining obcenity" are still in legal play.

                                  Comment

                                  • Stumps
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Jul 2006
                                    • 363
                                    #59
                                    oh man. wtf is going on. what the heck is wrong with a text link?


                                    can someone tell me that if I host abroad, then I am exempt from this.

                                    can someone hit me up please on icq and tell me what i need to do
                                    Last edited by Stumps; 07-25-2006, 09:15 PM.

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                                      Comment

                                      • Sexxxy Sites
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Oct 2005
                                        • 851
                                        #60
                                        Originally posted by Stumps
                                        oh man. wtf is going on. what the heck is wrong with a text link?


                                        can someone tell me that if I host abroad, then I am exempt from this.

                                        can someone hit me up please on icq and tell me what i need to do
                                        Text links are apparently safe at this point, but if you live in the USA it does not make any difference where your hosting is, if you are displaying images/videos served from your host.

                                          Comment

                                          • NastyGodCash
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Oct 2005
                                            • 239
                                            #61
                                            hey thats really scary, i would like to see what all these thumb tgps will do...
                                            http://www.nastygodcash.com - official sites of Silvia Saint, Evelyn Lory and Adriana Malkova

                                              Comment

                                              • phypon
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Oct 2003
                                                • 440
                                                #62
                                                With all of this, all I can say, and I know that everyone will agree, that this is FUCKED up. It is way too far, way too encompasing. People in this thread talk of protecting families, which is fine and true. It is like we are the mob and we are under attack. Like we are criminals. One morning we are businessmen and the next we are criminals. Think about that. That is totally insane.

                                                Not only that, one morning we are fine. The next, we wake up and we are RETROACTIVE criminals. I say this is Internet Prohibition. Think about the control that is going to be illustrated here if the Gov pulls this off. It will be...monumental. How strong is this board? How strong are we as an industry? Are we one for all and all for one? Or are we, 'fuck, I'm jumping ship'?

                                                I don't know guys. I don't know the answer to all of this. But it SMELLS! The whole thing just SMELLS!

                                                Most of the above is just a rant. I just don't get it. It is all false bullshit.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • BlackCrayon
                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                    • Jun 2003
                                                    • 19634
                                                    #63
                                                    so apparently cropping explicit images is out of the question. softcore is still safe though? you can show nudity as long as there is no penetration? thats not such a bad thing aside from fucking up what every one is currently doing. will less explicit images available for free make more people join sites? either way, i agree with the above poster.
                                                    you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Sarah_Jayne
                                                        Now with more Jayne
                                                        • Dec 2002
                                                        • 40077
                                                        #64
                                                        Just account for every possible image and then don't worry about it AS much.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Bliz
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Sep 2001
                                                            • 316
                                                            #65
                                                            Here's another question I like to hear some of your opinions on...

                                                            It seems some lawyers and armchair lawyers have based their interpretations of the new laws saying explict content can not be manipulated/cropped without making that person a secondary producer. Making them subject to all the 2257 record keeping requirments. From what I've read this seems to be what is being pushed forward by this fucked up administration.

                                                            Question:

                                                            What if a image or video cap was from an explict scene, but the image used by those consider "secondary producers" was non explict?

                                                            Example:

                                                            Using using a image from a shoot or scene before the sexualy explicit activity begins. In most shoots there are usually start out full clothed, lingerie, or topless posing.

                                                            I can see where cropping out the only the face of a girl whose actually getting double anal in a five man gangbang could be a problem.

                                                            I don't know, but I'm glad I began developing a solution for 2257 the first time around.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • L-Pink
                                                                working on my tan
                                                                • Mar 2005
                                                                • 39151
                                                                #66
                                                                Originally posted by FetishTom
                                                                That is absurd. If I take an image on a girl in the nude and photoshop a dress on then it is no longer a nude image. If I pass that amended image on to someone else who is unaware of the amendment then by this logic he can be done for not having the correct paperwork on a clothed image.

                                                                If what you say is true then the purpose of all this is to make sure people cannot reasonably comply and shut everyone down...oh wait sorry that is the intention!

                                                                Seriously though laws that are inherently flawed or designed to make sure people fail never have a long shelf life...

                                                                ...fingers crossed

                                                                Stop. Look at your second sentence.

                                                                "If I take an image on a girl in the nude and photoshop a dress on then it is no longer a nude image."

                                                                So you are saying that if you take a photograph of a minor, photoshop a dress on her you haven't photographed a minor nude?

                                                                Your logic also means if you take a photo of a girl with a dildo in her ass but crop out all but her face, you haven't taken a photo of a girl with a dildo in her ass?

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • vanillaice
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Jul 2004
                                                                    • 512
                                                                    #67
                                                                    Originally posted by sarah_webinc
                                                                    Just account for every possible image and then don't worry about it AS much.
                                                                    Affiliates can't though, that's the problem. Unless we start only using our own paid for content with just text links to sponsors. No more banners, logos, etc.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • L-Pink
                                                                        working on my tan
                                                                        • Mar 2005
                                                                        • 39151
                                                                        #68
                                                                        Originally posted by vanillaice
                                                                        Affiliates can't though, that's the problem. Unless we start only using our own paid for content with just text links to sponsors. No more banners, logos, etc.

                                                                        Correct, how would an affiliate know if the original image was altered?

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • KRL
                                                                            Entrepreneur
                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                            • 31429
                                                                            #69
                                                                            Originally posted by 12clicks
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                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • vanillaice
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Jul 2004
                                                                                • 512
                                                                                #70
                                                                                Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                                Your logic also means if you take a photo of a girl with a dildo in her ass but crop out all but her face, you haven't taken a photo of a girl with a dildo in her ass?
                                                                                Taking a photo of a girl with a dildo in her ass is legal, the other example you showed is illegal. So a person can take a photo of the dildo girl, and as long as they have that full photo, they probably need some sort of ID although i'm not sure how the law works for personal photos. If they crop out everything and just show her face then put it on the web, I highly doubt they need to post 2257 information, especially if it's a posed face of her smiling and not looking in pain.

                                                                                I also don't think they're going to go after people who even take a fully nude photo from the web and crop out the bad stuff, even if they can show the cropped photo came from a fully nude photo. There is no nudity, nor even any hinted nudity of a photo of just a girls face. They would have a real hard time busting people for that, so it won't happen.

                                                                                As far as photoshopping blurs or stuff over nudity, i'm not sure how that works. That's something people would probably have to talk to a lawyer about, but the cropping issue seems like a non issue

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • jayeff
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • May 2001
                                                                                    • 2944
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    Debating whether the rules are fair and reasonable might be entertaining, but ultimately the only question which matters is what risks are you prepared to take. Given the relatively small resources being applied, you may feel that your chances of being inspected are minimal. But unless that is the basis on which your actions are decided, it's hard to see much sense in doing anything other than making sure you are in line with the strictest interpretation of the law.

                                                                                    I say that because even if some of the points being thrown around here might form part of a defense and even if that defense is ultimately successful, if matters go that far, your finances may be ruined. The reality is that most couldn't afford to defend a federal case, so despite the brave talk on here, if the FBI do come knocking and aren't satisfied, many people will be deep in the brown, smelly stuff.

                                                                                    Take the cropping issue as an example. The 2257 rules are ostensibly about making sure that minors are not used in porn production. If the FBI take the trouble to visit you and see on one of your pages from 6 months ago (you are keeping copies of changed pages as required, right?) a headshot of a young-looking girl, is it reasonable to imagine they will ignore it? Or is it more likely they will ask to see the whole image, perhaps the whole photoshoot?

                                                                                    In terms of where you life is imminently headed if their enquiries reveal hardcore material and no supporting documents, it is irrelevant whether 3 years later a judge rules that the headshot was all you were displaying and therefore the charges are dismissed...

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • basschick
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                                        • 2540
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        spacedog - this has been the law since june 23, 2005.

                                                                                        according to several adult attorneys i talked to, you could be responsible for dressed or non excplicit pics that were from hardcore sets and very possibly an edited explicit pic will still require i.d. all the lawyers said that since there is no way to know how each judge would see it, so there is no ultimate right answer regarding cropped pics.
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                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • andrej_NDC
                                                                                            Registered User
                                                                                            • May 2004
                                                                                            • 7760
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Thumbs tgps convert much worse than text tgps anyway.

                                                                                            btw anyone needs free hosting?

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Rambozo
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Apr 2003
                                                                                                • 117
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                Originally posted by BlackCrayon
                                                                                                so apparently cropping explicit images is out of the question. softcore is still safe though? you can show nudity as long as there is no penetration? thats not such a bad thing aside from fucking up what every one is currently doing. will less explicit images available for free make more people join sites? either way, i agree with the above poster.
                                                                                                No, softcore is NOT safe anymore, according to FSC attorney Jeffrey Douglas-
                                                                                                " According to Douglas, the bill also mandates record-keeping for depictions of simulated sex act and exhibitions of mere nudity."
                                                                                                http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/F...eview&coid=630

                                                                                                Another problem is that a lot of "Primary producers" have contractual obligations with the models which prohibit them from releasing 2257 info to anyone - including affiliates - without a court order.
                                                                                                So at this point, the only thing that seems safe is text links that lead to galleries that are hosted on other people's servers. And we all know how badly most free hosted galleries convert.
                                                                                                Time to face it - we are all fucked.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • vanillaice
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Jul 2004
                                                                                                    • 512
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    With these laws, how are people still able to make free sites and galleries? I want to start doing that again but not if i'm going to get screwed by stupid secondary producer laws. Assuming I don't buy my own content that is

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • L-Pink
                                                                                                        working on my tan
                                                                                                        • Mar 2005
                                                                                                        • 39151
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Originally posted by vanillaice
                                                                                                        Taking a photo of a girl with a dildo in her ass is legal, the other example you showed is illegal. So a person can take a photo of the dildo girl, and as long as they have that full photo, they probably need some sort of ID although i'm not sure how the law works for personal photos. If they crop out everything and just show her face then put it on the web, I highly doubt they need to post 2257 information, especially if it's a posed face of her smiling and not looking in pain.

                                                                                                        I also don't think they're going to go after people who even take a fully nude photo from the web and crop out the bad stuff, even if they can show the cropped photo came from a fully nude photo. There is no nudity, nor even any hinted nudity of a photo of just a girls face. They would have a real hard time busting people for that, so it won't happen.

                                                                                                        As far as photoshopping blurs or stuff over nudity, i'm not sure how that works. That's something people would probably have to talk to a lawyer about, but the cropping issue seems like a non issue


                                                                                                        My first example is illegal because of the original photo not the cropped photo. That is why cropping is irrelevant.

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • gleem
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • Jun 2001
                                                                                                            • 5593
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            we should just pool our money and buy an Island where we can all work from.. that would solve everything




                                                                                                            Contact me: \\// E: webmaster /at/ unprofessional.com

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • andrej_NDC
                                                                                                                Registered User
                                                                                                                • May 2004
                                                                                                                • 7760
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                Originally posted by gleem
                                                                                                                we should just pool our money and buy an Island where we can all work from.. that would solve everything
                                                                                                                or you can just move to a different country

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • tranza
                                                                                                                    ICQ: 197-556-237
                                                                                                                    • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                    • 57559
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    I thought this whole 2257 bullshit was over...
                                                                                                                    I'm just a newbie.

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • BVF
                                                                                                                        Black Vagina Finder
                                                                                                                        • Jan 2002
                                                                                                                        • 13975
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        Any of y'all that aren't preparing to move completely offshore are missing out...

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                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • spacedog
                                                                                                                            Yes that IS me. Bitch.
                                                                                                                            • Nov 2001
                                                                                                                            • 14149
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by gleem
                                                                                                                            we should just pool our money and buy an Island where we can all work from.. that would solve everything
                                                                                                                            Do you know where there's one for sale?

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • gleem
                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                • 5593
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by spacedog
                                                                                                                                Do you know where there's one for sale?
                                                                                                                                Private ISland here.




                                                                                                                                you wanna go in on it with me? I Got about $500k




                                                                                                                                Contact me: \\// E: webmaster /at/ unprofessional.com

                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                  • andrej_NDC
                                                                                                                                    Registered User
                                                                                                                                    • May 2004
                                                                                                                                    • 7760
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by gleem
                                                                                                                                    Private ISland here.




                                                                                                                                    you wanna go in on it with me? I Got about $500k
                                                                                                                                    keep the money and move to Canada or Europe

                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • Yze
                                                                                                                                        Registered User
                                                                                                                                        • Mar 2006
                                                                                                                                        • 23
                                                                                                                                        #84
                                                                                                                                        So let me get this straight...

                                                                                                                                        If the content (pic or video) is hosted on a different server and we show/embed it on our site, are we still held liable for it?

                                                                                                                                        Can anyone clarify or know of anything about this situation?
                                                                                                                                        TokenArcade | All Dumps | All Linkers | Zyped! Daily Media | Yoinkz! Daily Babes

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • gleem
                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                            • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                            • 5593
                                                                                                                                            #85
                                                                                                                                            if you display the picture on your site even if you hotlink, you are 100% responsible.. think of it this way:

                                                                                                                                            if you setup a movie theater in your hometown and you have a computer there with a projector hooked up to it and you stream video from some super illegal CP site on your screen, you can't say that it's not coming from your theater just because the source is somewhere else.
                                                                                                                                            Last edited by gleem; 07-26-2006, 11:41 AM.




                                                                                                                                            Contact me: \\// E: webmaster /at/ unprofessional.com

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • fitzmulti
                                                                                                                                                I Like Depth Of Field!
                                                                                                                                                • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                                                • 14861
                                                                                                                                                #86
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