Making Millions In Adult - One Man's Story

Of all the things he says and he does say a lot of sense, this is the GEM.

I have always heard not to advertise other membership sites in a members area because it will cause retention to drop. This made sense initially. Members paid to see content not ads. But this was stupid way of thinking. I had members who liked my site and they would join again but for now they wanted to see something different right now.

The belief that all surfers wants to see the same porn shot by the same guy, in the same style, same build up, same finish, same action, same location month after month is sheer stupidity.

Would you want to eat hamburgers from MacDees for two months?

Surfers get bored jerking off to the same stuff and want to move on, earn from them when they do and keep them using the Internet as their porn supplier.

Anything that makes a surfer think he's better off going to the local porn shop or sticking to free porn is hurting our industry. No business survives by screwing it's customers.

I'm blushing.

Thanks.

The mistake we all make is in thinking inside the box, the box that was created by someone else and works only because he built it 6 years ago. Well maybe a few copied them in the last four years but how many sites/program can you name that made a serious dent in the market?

Look at all the surfers we DON'T sell to and think to yourself, "What are we doing wrong that these guys don't want to spend money with us" and maybe you will come up with something a bit different.

I will be launching my solution soon.

yep. Most people who were here at the time knew exactly who I was talking about. I think he insipred many to take the simple quality route with paysites. I hope to continue that inspiration. I really want to see this industry clean up but to do that many site owners need to see that quality sites which are good to the customers make tons of cash. You don't need popups and cross sales to make more money for each affiliate signup. You can make up the difference from all of the return joins. I have many members who join my site a couple times each year for a few months at a time. The return customers are amazing because of how I treat them. I am very upfront with them and give them what they wanted and EXPECTED... just like q

thanx

The thing it many of those who use the under hand methods to make money DO NEED them.

Simply because they have little clue about the difference between porn and naked flesh.

We're also getting the return member effect. Allows us to pay more without all the upsells and cross sells.

$40 PPS and not invite only... Nope...

Nice post none the less

After I told some of my cousins what I do I asked them if they knew some of the large tgps. They knew most of them. I asked if they ever joined any sites and which ones do they like. They said they never joined a paysite. I am always shocked to hear how many people never join a site. The two main reasons that I hear is... There is enough free porn and they don't trust to put in credit card information to join sites.

I will be posting a small article about free porn to my site and make a post here about it. The issue with not trusting sites is an issue I have been talking about this whole time. Why trust sites who use such shady tactics? Many many many visitors never become customers because of a lack of trust. If this industry is able to get that trust back by treating visitors right then we will bring in many new customers who never joined a paysite but who have been on the internet for years.

This is why I hadn't before either. I did join Q's site once. I don't really trust the large pps sponsors with crazy popups, and that push spyware/adware in their exits. I'd never join those.

Never happen.

Would be nice if they'd give a shot. They could continue business as usual on their existing programs but launch a NEW program and try this model and see how it works for them. They could always close up shop and adopt their new sites into their older programs if it didn't work out for them.

What do you say PPS sponsors?

Welcome to the world of porn.

There are 100s of 1,000s who have seen a magazine but never bought one, millions who have seen a porn video but never bought one. In fact in my, nearly, 3 decades producing porn I have very rarely ever met anyone who admitted to buying porn. Got no idea where all the money I earned came from.

When some porn sellers act like spivs to get a sale don't be to amazed the majority of people think everyone selling porn is a spiv.

That is what I am hoping. I hope program owners will at least try this. I hope they try to make a site that is just for the customer... with no pop ups, no consoles, and a solid member area. I think after a year of testing this model many owners will see just how great this business model is and how many return customers they get. Customer satisfaction is truly the best business model.

What do I say about PPS sponsors? Well I have nothing against paying per signup. There is nothing wrong with that method of paying. Many great sites pay per signup. I am against the aggressive tactics such as popups, cross sales, and poorly built member areas to generate money to pay per signup.

Oh, no.. I was asking these sponsors what they thought.. " So, what do you say.. PPS Sponsors? Up to the challenge? ". That kind of thing ;)

ah ok

Yeah I hope they are up to the challenge. For them it should be easy. Many have strong affiliate base to try this. Many affiliates are showing they want to go in this direction... I see many choosing the no popup option even at a lower pay.

Here should be the basis...

- $24.95 monthly membership.
- no trials.
- no popups.
- no cross sales.
- only content from the paysite can be used for promotions
- members areas that update at least 1 photo set per day and 6 videos per month. I know this seems like it is not enough for retention but it is! I used less than this in the past with a great retention to the second month.

Trust me. You will make a killing going in this direction and eventually create more sales for all of us over the next 5-10 years. Think long term! Many of you 5 years ago would only think a year or two ahead. Why? Here we are 5 years later. Time is going so fast and this business is not going anywhere. We just need to clean it up more to create more customers overall. We all need to start looking at customer satisfaction.

I think asking affiliates if they could live with the lower payouts would be more like it....you are asking the program owners to shoulder the risk.....

i run rev share only and i do believe in trying to get the customer exactly what they pay for.....

and from an owners standpoint competing in todays market where the affiliates dictate the amount of payout etc...in order to compete it is a difficult task.....not having a PPS model is almost impossible to get affiliates on board

We do not go after the affiliates so hard... a little more now that before as we grow but all in all i still do most of the hunting and driving of traffic to our own program.....i will only let SELECT affiliates benefit off of PPS if i konw them personally or have built up a working relationship with them.....

hopefully affiliates also realize that they ,themselves, are helping to perpetuate their own demise....

What about your own affiliates? Are you willing to teach them how to promote your site with the best results? Obviously, you have a lot of knowledge about what works for your site. You've mentioned the art of preselling.

i think it was a great story...ROFL

What (major) risk? They have their main programs still and would be changing nothing. This is an EXTRA program/site option they would create. Some affiliates will opt to give it a try, especially if it converts. You'd be more likely to get acceptance with google, tgps who care like thehun, linklists like hoes, etc.. Not to mention, if the earnings per member is as great as it seems it could be, sponsors could send the traffic from their other programs to their own site instead of exits to other programs.

You may not want those type of affiliates, and if you read what he's saying.. and what Q has also done well.. affiliates are not the priority. They've learned to purchase traffic and tweak their conversions on their own.. and are earning more per member.

They'll always want more, and many will go to whoever will give it to them. The bottom line is they want to earn money of course, but their are many revshares that seem to do well enough. Give them a good site that will convert. Help them learn how to sell it. (Does anyone even do this?) It's what sets programs like Met-Art, Karups, Twistys, etc.. apart that jpv is trying to get you to look at.

One of the best threads iv'e read this year on GFY, very nice story jpv.
If sponsors started to work on this model a lot of things would be for the better imo.

The problem is that it's strong economic forces that want the half scammy pop-up/cross sales type of programs and not to forget all the spyware/browser redirect/link jacking progams out there that live of mostly the porn traffic.

For this to change we need a colapse of some sort.
But like you point out there is still lots of money to be made the more honest and quality way, most of the times more than what you can earn with quantity and half scammy tricks.

I think we just need to help fuel new growth in sites a surfer might be able to trust that would provide a good membership experience. Growth in this type of model if it converts and earnings are still significant, should be enough to attract more people supporting it in time.

Of course. I check in on how they are promoting the site and I will give them some advice how to market my site since I have been doing it for a while and know how to sell my own site. I am all about sales so this is also a learning experience for me when dealing with new sites and different advertising strategies. Some sites will market my site in a certain way or position on their site which creates huge amout of clicks to the tour with few sales. My main question is "how many sales did you get from this ad spot on your site before". Some of the smallest things can make a huge difference in preselling. Blind thumbs on a tgp without any text to explain where a visitor is going can hurt conversions. So both parties need to work together to maximize SALES from the ad spot without upsetting any surfers.

I think it's possible to do, but I don't own any PPS programs

From a PPS programs' standpoint however, I also think it depends on the affiliates you have. From my own numbers I only have a 'few' that have the patience, time, knowledge & bankroll to carry them over to the next 3 months to let their Revshare numbers grow to a point where they are comfortable with their earnings.

The difference on PPS sponsors and someone like jpv starting fresh with a paysite is the time & formula they are used to. You won't get large programs switching over their entire program - they may test this way of doing business one *new* site at a time. No crossells, no exits = longer time for the investment to monetize + limited expansion & growth to be able to bankroll the next site & expand into other markets.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it won't be possible for all programs to do it - BUT a shrewd businessman/businesswoman when the business model & future profits on new sites is understood, will most likely be willing to take the calculated risk.

This might be why there really aren't any big sites coming online anymore. Are there? There's the whole splatter thing going on with dozens of new sites complete with all the new tricks. Few if any take the chance to grow a huge site.

I dont post much on any boards but I must say something on this thread!
This article is great, it inspire me and make me wonder where I see myslef 5,6,7,8,,, years from now!
jpv thank you for this nice article I wish you all the best!

errrm... nice... so nice...

Cliff notes?

It was a very good read like you said. VERY inspiring!

Thanks

This is exactly why I signed up to gfy. Thanks for sharing.

Hey, I thought there was no money in porn

One problem is alot of people do not listen to advice. Why? Because usually the advice that would make them more money involves some actual WORK. Something alot of people are afraid of.

*Bookmarked*...good stuff.

I need some advice, Shap. Can you help me?

;-)

marc

great article!.. going to sleep now to dream about my millions hehehe

money money money money money

If you can't be bothered to read this thread cliff notes will not be of any use.

One of the best things affiliates could do to ensure this part of the porn industry turns around is check to see exactly how many sets and videos the site they're promoting actually has.

I've reviewed a few sited recently that IMO have about 2 weeks worth of content. Mainstream niche sites with 30 videos and 50 image sets are not delivering 30 days of entertainment. IMHO.

In a market where doubling that amount of content would cost the price of a couple of banners on message boards it shows the sponsor thoughts about keeping the traffic converting.

This is in essence what i think JPV is talking about. Making sure that when a member leaves one site he is willing to sign up to another site. Not asking himself if he's going to get ripped again.

Affiliates should ask themselves how honest is the sponsor with the surfer, it's an indication of how honest they are over all. Plus how logical is it that a site which disappoints a memberdoes so well in upselling and crossselling the members, allowing them to pay the huge figures they offer. I can see that working with a newbie surfer, but not an experienced one. Rip him off and he's unlikely to trust a site well enough to go for an upsell.

I am not saying programs need to switch to revshare. Using what I outlined in my earlier post a program can pay $30-$40 depending on how well run it is... some have the bank rolls and the brain to make a site good enough to pay even $45 per sign up and still make huge profits. This is all without popups, cross sales, emailing members, and other shady stuff. This is all about customer satisfaction and return customers.

so you are saying popups are "shady" ?

I see nothing wrong with 1 popup. I have made over 100K in the last 3 years off of 1 popup page that is displayed on about 35% of my traffic. I definetly don't see anything wrong with it in my position as an affiliate, i don't own a "website" that I am worried about people coming back to. I advertise ads and i get 1 shot at them, so i make it count.

Even if i owned a membership site (and i have owned several in the past) I would still have 1 pop up on exit. I guarantee that I will gain more in income from sales from my popup page then i will lose from returning customers who wont come back to my site because they got a pop up on their way out. Think about it. These people are leaving your site, pop up or no pop up there is a very good chance you are not going to make a sale from them. Even with a pop up you are not rulling it out either, how many people actually get pissed from 1 pop up. I bet anything the sales you would lose would be nothing compared to what you make from the pop up. I know years back when I started using popups on my membership sites, i would give them a second chance (discounted rate for my site and i had some other affiliates listed there) on my pop up page. Not only did my membership sales go up but i started making affiliate money. So I couldn't have made them too mad if they were signing up to my site off of the popup page.


I am all in favor of not screwing the customer. But I am also here to make money, not be self rightious. I am happy being more ethical then the industry norm, and i am not talking about porn either, the whole online industry, mainstream included. All the shit these people pull, 1 pop up is nothing in comparison, neither is a checked cross sale IMO.

I don't know how any of you can go on and on about trying to not upset the customer if you have rebilling memberships. lets call a spade a spade. rebilling memberships is 100% worse for the customer then a popup.

Well popups are not shady but they are something that people have openly talked about hating and now most use software to block them. If they don't want them then I will not use them to upset my visitors. I think you are wrong about making more money with a popup rather than using a clean site to get return vistors. If you were right every tgp would use one popup. Tgps have learned how to get return visitors and years ago they learned they better not have a popup if they want any hope of getting that visitor to come back. Paysites are the same! Karups, atk, twistys, and for sure my site get people visiting often to see the tour to see what is new at the site. I know this because many visitors to my paysite email me about this. I will not use ANYTHING that a visitor might not like and popups have already proved to be one of the most hated thing on the internet.

I don't doubt you make some money with them because that is all your business is... at least from what I have seen. You try to get people to promote click cash through you and you pay the affiliates a little more so you can add your popups... right? If adding popups to one of the most promoted sites such a great advantage for affiliates since it increases their payouts... then why isn't everyone promoting click cash through you? You convinced a couple hundred (I don't know the active affiliates you have) to use you out of how many? Around hundred thousand? You are over rating popups. They are hated by everyone. You have been able to make a living off of it because you have convinced webmasters who have sites to use more popups to make more money. They are suffering because of upset surfers while you are making more money since you don't have a "web site"

And a checked cross sale not being shady? Ask paycom how many chargebacks/credits they get because of those. When people fill out a billing page MANY don't see that prechecked cross sale and end up paying for something they do not want. What do many of those rebill at? $40? More?

It is unfortunate that many people can't read and miss when they are told 3 or 4 times they are purchasing a rebilling membership. I make it very clear and so does the billing companies in MANY places.

Also ask large tgp owners how many emails they get from their visitors about popups. They get many complaints about popups on paysite tours.

It made me shed a tear.

The surfer gets fucked with popups and crosses so affiliates can be paid $40 on a $1 trial. The demands of affiliates drive how programs operate. You can't leave anything on the table. Instead you need to focus on how to monetize your traffic so you get the most out of it. Affiliates demand high payouts and trials. If you can't offer these, they'll just push a program that can. Not to mention just about every program offers console free links for those of you that don't want your traffic hit with exits. So i don't really see what the big fuss is about.

There are FAR worst things on the internet then 1 pop up off of a site, to name a few email spam, viruses, spyware, flashover ads, tool bars and other shit that gets installed when you downloading a program or signing up to something, etc...

you are talking about two totally differen things. You can't compare a TGP to a membership site. A TGP will get repeat vistors every day and bookmarks, a membership site will be lucky to get a small amount of people to come back again whether you have popups or not. Just to make it clear i am talking about popups in the free area of the site not the members area. Lets just say that your membership site gets 10% return traffic (example). Let's say 1/2 of them are uptight and wont come back because there was a pop up when they exited your site. (i doubt the number would be that high but for the sake of arguing...) So you are sacraficing 95% of your exit traffic to try to make 5% of them happy, in the hopes that some of those 5% might actually sign up when then come back the second time. You losing money big time. At least from my results, and it seems logical enough. I am not some noob either, been doing this for 7 years and generated well over 5 million in sales. So my "results" should have a little credibility as well.

who in the fuck are you? One thing i can't stand more then anything is people who think they know what i do and they can't be more wrong! If you want to know what i do, ask me. If you are not sure do a little research or ask me, don't go on and on telling me.... For someone who claims he spends no time on the boards how do you even know that I have anything to do with ClickCash???? hasn't been in my sig for months. INTERESTING....

" I don't doubt you make some money with them (popups) because that is all your business is... " BULLSHIT. My "business" is not popups. People do not advertise clickcash through me. I HELP people make more money with clickcash, they refer me when they make their OWN account. I am like a resource site for Clickcash affiliates. I make promos, provide content, etc. Actually I have never even helped any of them setup a pop up or even made a popup ad for them. You are totally off base. When i was making reference to popups i was talking about MY traffic.

First of all, i enjoyed your article and agreed with most of what you said, even though you guys are a tad bit over doing it with the ' don't want to hurt no sufers feelings" stuff. When you made the comment that " popups" are "shady" i disagreed with you and thought we could debate it, not be told by someone how i opperate my business and bash on me for something i don't even do. Sorry to piss on your thread and be the first to disagree with you on something you said, I thought you were looking for discussions/debating, obviously not.


BULLSHIT. If you really cared about your sufers you would give them two options to signup, Option 1: for your convenience your membership will rebill each month. Option 2: good for 30 days and then you will have to signup again.

PEOPLE hate rebilling memberships A LOT more then 1 freaking popup. popup, hit "x" its over with. forget to cancell or didn't even notice it rebills, hours of wasted time trying to cancel and money out of their pockets. I can't believe you honestly think 1 pop up is hated more then rebilling memberships...

And i find it funny how you bash on popups and want to do everything for the surfer but then say in regards to rebilling " it is unfortunite that people can't read"... well why don't you make it easier for them and give them too options to sign up? rebill and non rebilling ??? too fucking funny.

newsflash: That doesn't make popups less annoying...

That sort of reasoning is flawed to say the least

Rui, I am not trying to reason anything, what i said is what i said, there is a lot worse to worry about online then a popup, period.

My argument on this is many people stop visiting any links from galleries which they remember from before and remember that the links can give them pop ups. Not even from free sites but from anywhere. If a surfer goes to a paysite and they decide not to sign up and back out they get hit with popups. Then they hit another promotion for this site a few weeks later and they go to the site and they recognize it and remember it had popups which anoyed them before so they back out right away. This happens alot. Think of it this way... how big do you think Cybererotica would be right now if they concentrated on there members area to keep customers happy rather than new ways to trap visitors to their tour? Working percentages of actual number is pointless since there are no statistics of this. Everything is just guessing so that is why I try to use general examples and theories.

I do have to admit now there are wose things than popups. Years ago popups were the most hated. But now viruses, adware/spyware and spam have become much much worse. So I do agree with you here but that does not mean I am going to do something to my visitors which I know they do not like

Easy... I see in your sig now your teamclickcash email. I took a second to look at the page and I immediately mistaked you with someone else without looking at your site in detail. I remember someone in the past using a strategy that I was just talking about. I thought it was with click cash but I could be wrong. Sorry. It was an honest mistake.

you are all over the place.

First of all you think these surfers have an incredible memory, they do not. MOst of them, their lives are not the internet, they have a lot more important things to worry about like kids, paying bills, work, etc.. then trying to remember which sites they ever visited gave them a popup on exit. these people likely visit 100's of sites when they get online surfing porn, if they happen to land on the same sponsor's site 1 month or 1 week later they are not going to remember (95% of the time) that the site had a popup when they left last time. Maybe they will when they exit and the see the same popup, and remember that, but whos to say they enter through the same tour, etc... You make it sound like a pop up is a rare event, a LOT Of sites have popups. Now if i got caught in a popup hell "as you refer to with cybererotica, yeah maybe i that would stick in my brain for few days if i came across the url again.

Whether Cybererotica focuses more time on their members area or not has nothing to do with the fact that you make more then you lose by having 1 pop up off of your site.