Zeitgeist question - For those that have watched it

of course its true, jesus and the bible is just a story collected from mythical and astrological sources.

Kind of my belief too but I a curious what religious Christians say about this...

its a story,how could it be the word of god and they had editors.

Mitch, did you get the icq message ?

It's not true at all. Zeitgeist that is. They make up a lot of stuff about the Egyptians that is simply not true. The entire Horus story is completely fabricated and not the true story.

Still, I believe that stories from previous civilizations had an impact on Christianity. But I doubt it was Egypt. Greek philosophies and beliefs have a strong influence on Christianity. Many of the early writers were heavily taught in Hellenistic philosophy and it transfered over.

It's not to say that Egyptians may not have had some influence on Christianity, but I believe it's more likely that Greek philosophy and the God Dionysus is a much better culprit.

Like what?

what was fabricated? What is the true story.

how did you arrive at that conclusion? Did you party with Jim Morrison too?


I don't know all the answers either ...

Bill Maher's movie had some of the same info.

Ton of stuff. Horus wasn't born on the 25th of December. His mother wasn't a virgin (the story of how he was conceived is pretty awesome though, read the Legend of Osiris and Isis). He was never a teacher, he was never baptized, and never walked on water.

He also never dies in Egyptian lore. He simply merges with another God Ra. Therefore there is no crucifiction or resurrection.

Set wasn't the God of the night, he was the Desert God (because he was infertile). Horus was the God of the Sky. One of his eyes was the sun, the other the moon. There were no nightly battles between the two that determined night and day.

There is a slew of other made up stuff too. You can find it in a slew of real books about the history of the Egyptians. Many of these stories are also in the Book of the Dead (such as how Horus came to be).

There are a lot of people who shaped Christianity that were heavily taught in Greek philosophy. Saint Augustine is probably the most notable. Many early Christian philosophies were also stolen almost word for word from the Greeks (Plato for instance). Their geographical proximity is also pretty suspect.

Not saying it's true, just saying I think the Greek culture has much more evidence showing influence than the Egyptians.

Dudes, the Bible is the word of God unchanged!

Dudettes... Sorry, you ain't included, yo!

Don't take this to mean that I believe in the bible, but a lot of the religious claims put forth in Zeitgeist simply aren't true. I came across a lot of the same information that pocketkangaroo mentioned above when doing my own research into the film's claims.

I took some really interesting Philosophy of Religion classes, on my way to that piece of paper on my wall.

In one of my classes, we investigated the versions, and authors of the old testament. Within the same sections, you will see inconsistencies, which lead to a pattern of two distinct authors. I haven't seen this Zeitgeist movie, but I plan on watching the one on the Federal Reserve foundation.

Take a look at this page: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript.htm

They apparently source everything there for the first film.

The latest bit of guerrilla media to take the online universe by storm is ?Zeitgeist, the Movie.? Clocking in at close to two hours? length, and with over a million views on Google Video since its June 26th ?official? release, Zeitgeist is a grabby, cranky, can?t-stop-watching-it documentary that purports to tell the real truth about Christianity, 9/11, and the International Bankers.

Exactly who is behind the video is unclear, although someone with the moniker of ?Peter J.? has posted an online letter claiming credit and explaining Zeitgeist?s message to those who may have somehow failed to grasp the worldview that the video hammers home.

And what is that worldview, pray tell? Religions in general, and Christianity in particular, are primarily systems of social control. 9/11 was an inside job and the destruction of the WTC twin towers and building 7 were aided by controlled demolition. And finally, International Bankers, through the Federal Reserve and the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), control our money and our future, leading to, ta da, the coming One World Government and the microchipping of everyone.

Exactly how all this fits together is left to the viewer?s imagination or, presumably, the film-maker?s hash pipe. Are those who manipulate Christianity for control purposes in cahoots with the Bankers, and were the Bankers in on the 9/11 caper? Zeitgeist sidesteps such logical questions through the use of the all-purpose term, ?the elite,? a shadowy group of rich and powerful men who want nothing more than to enslave humanity and reap block-buster profits through the promotion of wars and financial crises.

For conspiracy buffs, this is all pretty standard fare, and, indeed, aficionados of the genre will find little new in ?Zeitgeist.? The notions that most religions were originally a kind of solar worship, and that the Jesus Christ story recapitulated the mythos of numerous other ?dying gods,? were floating around in the late 1700s. Fittingly, the video features a quote from Thomas Paine reducing Christianity to warmed-over sun worship, which was a daring bit of religion-baiting 200 years ago, albeit not so earth-shattering today.

The nefarious International Bankers meme has been propagating itself since at least the mid-1800s and has long been a mainstay of radical right-wing circles where it has often overlapped with mutterings about Jewish cabals.

The 9/11 truth segment of the video is, of course, of much more recent vintage, but, here too, it mostly repeats accusations that have gotten widespread play in the uber-skeptic milieu.

Breaking new factual ground is not what Zeitgeist is about, however. Rather, the video is a powerful and fast-acting dose of agitprop, hawking its conclusions as givens. Unfortunately, like most propaganda, it doesn?t play fair with its intended audience. At times, while watching it, I felt like I was getting Malcolm McDowell?s treatment in Clockwork Orange: eyes pried wide open while getting bombarded with quick-cut atrocity photos.

At other times, Zeitgeist engages in willful confusion by showing TV screen shots of network or cable news with voice-overs from unidentified people not associated with the news programs. If one weren?t paying close attention, the effect would be to confer the status and authority of TV news upon the words being spoken. Even when quotes or sound bites are attributed to a source, there?s no way to tell if they are quoted correctly or in context.

Late in the video, there?s a supposed quote from David Rockefeller, which, if genuine, would be an astounding confession of complicity in mass manipulation. But, of course, the quote is not sourced or dated, which renders it useless. (The video?s website does feature a Sources page, but a hodge-podge list of books, with no page numbers cited, is of little value for source verification.)

The over-all temper of the video is rather like the John Birch Society on acid, with interludes by Harry Smith. Incongruously, after spending nearly two hours trying to scare the bejeezis out of its viewers, Zeitgeist ends on an oddly upbeat note, telling us that Love ? not Fear ? is the answer, We are all One, and featuring sound-bites from Ram Dass and Carl Sagan.

It?s a shame, really, that Zeitgeist is, ultimately, such a mess. There are plenty of legitimate questions about what transpired on 9/11, just as there are plenty of shady doings in international finance or puzzling aspects of religious history, for that matter. And what is coming down in the name of National Security is truly unnerving. Yet, bundling them all together in disjointed fashion does justice to none of them. Time and again, Zeitgeist maximizes emotional impact at the expense of a more reasoned weighing of evidence. But, perhaps that?s the intention.

I?ve often pondered about what it might take to snap everyone out of the walking dream we collectively entered on 9/11/01. Just as the fall of the Berlin Wall provided the emotional pivot for the end of the Cold War, only a collective experience of an intensity equal to that of 9/11 might jolt us awake as to what is really happening in the corridors of power and certain undisclosed locations.

It?s my hunch that Zeitgeist is one attempt to provide such a jolt, and it does indeed pack a certain punch. Too bad it also runs off in three directions at once, and is so indiscriminate in its sources and overly certain of its conclusions. Zeitgeist may be powerful, but its power is tainted with some simplistic and pernicious memes that have already received more propagation than they deserve. The video?s producer does inform us that ?It is my hope that people will not take what is said in the film as the truth . . .?

http://www.jaykinney.com/

I must admit I looked into Wikipedia after this movie, and I too didn't find any sources about Horus that claim that he was just like JC.

But thats ancient history and unless you know Egyptian hierogliphs you won't be able to know the true anyway. Fuck that.

Main thing is, the whole religion was made up by a bunch of popes to keep the King up in the saddle. Well, they wanted to reunite the world under 1 person, there is no other way to do it if you are living in a Bronze age, but by force. Or.. Religion.

Throughout the years religion helped many lost souls to regain comfort. We can't blame them, but we can blame the terrorists for using the religion to kill and destroy. Right now this is becoming a major problem in this world.

Zeitgeist isn't a new religion, its just a look from another angle. And I must say I agree with most of it.

So Wikipedia is the beginning and end of your research?

Their sourcing is pathetic. For instance, a ton of the stuff on religion is sourced to Acharya S who is seen as a joke by most scholars. Acharya S doesn't source anything either.

Take for instance the story of Horus. It's in the Book of the Dead. It's in hundreds of books that have transcribed the Book of the Dead. You either believe this person Acharya S who doesn't have any evidence, or the actual Book of the Dead.

Sourcing is using a factual source for your information. Not just listing another conspiracy book that has no evidence.

The only thing Zeitgeist does is make you look from another angle.

I personally am an Atheist. I believe there may or may not have been a man called Jesus, but that's where it ends. He was no son of God and he had no special powers. Probably just a lot of opium and alcohol in his bloodstream.

But the problem with Zeitgeist is that it actually hurts those who try to prove that religion is bogus. Because Zeitgeist is filled with very little factually about religion. So when someone runs a fact check on it, they tear it apart. It makes the argument against religion look bad.

what if you had power, money, status because you worked for the king

then he died


do you lose power?


or


do you say he has risen to the heavens and became a God?


now you can maintain your status forever.

/religion

Interesting concept and so true.