Business Poll... How many affiliate programs do you think Shave?

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  • Shap
    Confirmed User
    • May 2001
    • 8313
    #1

    Business Poll... How many affiliate programs do you think Shave?

    Hi Guys. I had an interesting experience this week. I had a tgp veteran come by the Twistys offices. I gave him a tour and showed him how we ran our business. I was surprised to find out he was shocked that we didn't shave. He assumed all affiliate programs automatically shaved.

    Being a program owner that started out as a Tgp and Cj owner I can identify with the feeling. I remember always thinking everybody shaved. Then we started TwistysCash and I got to experience how affiliate programs work and since shaving was never even a thought in my mind i started to assume the majority of companies aren't shaving. As the program owner I feel I owe my affiliates the absolute best I can possibly deliver.

    Anyhow I was wondering what everybody else thinks?
    135
    I'm suspicious of everyone! You all Shave!
    0%
    33
    I think more than 75% of affiliate programs shave
    0%
    37
    I think roughly 50% of affiliate programs shave
    0%
    30
    I think roughly 25% of affiliate programs shave
    0%
    18
    I think roughly 15% of affiliate programs shave
    0%
    12
    I think nobody shaves. What a great honest industry we work in.
    0%
    5
    Tags: None
    • blazi
      Confirmed User
      • Feb 2003
      • 4321
      #2
      If I had to guess, no less than half the sponsors out there shave daily, or have been involved with shaving in the past

      makingcoin.com - 100% payouts
      coinscuties.com

        Comment

        • JD
          Too lazy to set a custom title
          • Sep 2003
          • 22651
          #3
          I'm thinking about 20% shave or have shaved on occasion to protect the bottom line.

            Comment

            • Barefootsies
              Choice is an Illusion
              • Feb 2005
              • 42635
              #4
              Originally posted by blazi
              If I had to guess, no less than half the sponsors out there shave daily, or have been involved with shaving in the past

              Should You Email Your Members?

              Link1 | Link2 | Link3

              Enough Said.

              "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                Comment

                • Dagwolf
                  President of Canada
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 23141
                  #5
                  Dollars per click. I don't try to figure out what sponsors are doing, I just try to get the most out of my traffic.
                  Sleep well, and dream of large women.

                    Comment

                    • Dagwolf
                      President of Canada
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 23141
                      #6
                      Originally posted by Barefootsies
                      Sleep well, and dream of large women.

                        Comment

                        • Shap
                          Confirmed User
                          • May 2001
                          • 8313
                          #7
                          Originally posted by Dagwolf
                          Dollars per click. I don't try to figure out what sponsors are doing, I just try to get the most out of my traffic.
                          I understand that. What makes you the most with your traffic is the key figure to look at. HOWEVER if companies are out there and knowing knocking off 15% of sales the truth is that is theft. Is that acceptable? Just because they can convert your traffic better than someone else does that give them the right to shave?

                            Comment

                            • madawgz
                              8.8.8.8
                              • Mar 2006
                              • 30509
                              #8
                              im not going to callout the sponsor, but one of them shaves 1 in 6.......
                              TAEMDLRMSKRJIXMRLSMRJ.

                                Comment

                                • FreeFastHost
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Oct 2001
                                  • 1588
                                  #9
                                  Most shave, about 90% I would say.

                                  I have a list of about 20 sponsors I've caught personally. As long as I make more per click than sponsors that don't shave, I could care less if they're shaving.

                                    Comment

                                    • marketsmart
                                      HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER
                                      • Dec 2004
                                      • 20419
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by Dagwolf
                                      you must have visited the island of dr moreau....

                                        Comment

                                        • Barefootsies
                                          Choice is an Illusion
                                          • Feb 2005
                                          • 42635
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by Dagwolf

                                          Should You Email Your Members?

                                          Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                          Enough Said.

                                          "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                            Comment

                                            • Shap
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • May 2001
                                              • 8313
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by FreeFastHost
                                              Most shave, about 90% I would say.

                                              I have a list of about 20 sponsors I've caught personally. As long as I make more per click than sponsors that don't shave, I could care less if they're shaving.
                                              I think you are wrong. By that rationale we would be one of the few that don't shave and I find that hard to believe. You have to be a pretty goddamn heartless sob to shave someone who is sending you business.

                                                Comment

                                                • pornguy
                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                  • Mar 2003
                                                  • 62910
                                                  #13
                                                  I would have to say that ANY of the programs that are not like ccbill or something shave to some extent.
                                                  PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic

                                                  AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online!
                                                  TChicks.com | Angeles Cid | Mariana Cordoba | MAILERS WELCOME!

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Shap
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • May 2001
                                                      • 8313
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by FreeFastHost
                                                      Most shave, about 90% I would say.

                                                      I have a list of about 20 sponsors I've caught personally. As long as I make more per click than sponsors that don't shave, I could care less if they're shaving.
                                                      btw how do you catch them? Why not list those that you caught?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • poisson
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Mar 2003
                                                          • 6474
                                                          #15
                                                          Voted!

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Shap
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • May 2001
                                                              • 8313
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by pornguy
                                                              I would have to say that ANY of the programs that are not like ccbill or something shave to some extent.
                                                              Sorry pornguy but this is a very uneducated comment. I invite you to visit our offices anytime and I'll glady show you and explain why.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • ChargebackJoe
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • May 2006
                                                                  • 356
                                                                  #17
                                                                  It is not possible to be profitable in this business without considerable shaving. See sig.
                                                                  Buy PPC Traffic

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Shap
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • May 2001
                                                                      • 8313
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by ChargebackJoe
                                                                      It is not possible to be profitable in this business without considerable shaving. See sig.
                                                                      there are so many morons in this industry

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • polish_aristocrat
                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                                          • 40377
                                                                          #19
                                                                          I dont know your program, but let me ask - could you pay $40 per $2.99 trials? Just curious
                                                                          I don't use ICQ anymore.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • ChargebackJoe
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • May 2006
                                                                              • 356
                                                                              #20
                                                                              The 4 elements of the perfect shave:

                                                                              1. Start a thread about shaving
                                                                              2. Convince everyone that one is honest and does not shave
                                                                              3. See as the suckers sign up in droves
                                                                              4. Continue to shave their asses off while laughing all the way to the bank

                                                                              See sig.
                                                                              Buy PPC Traffic

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Shap
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • May 2001
                                                                                  • 8313
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
                                                                                  I dont know your program, but let me ask - could you pay $40 per $2.99 trials? Just curious
                                                                                  I don't run trials so i can not answer that question. But looking at Topbucks they have 5 popups on their tour before you hit page two of the tour. I'm guessing if i had 5 popups before the surfer hit the join page I could pay $40 on $2.99 too.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • wargames
                                                                                      Kliris
                                                                                      • May 2003
                                                                                      • 10423
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by Dagwolf
                                                                                      Dollars per click. I don't try to figure out what sponsors are doing, I just try to get the most out of my traffic.
                                                                                      Same here at the end of the day it is all about who makes me the most money
                                                                                      ICQ 212-115-582
                                                                                      Email Steve at Vas Media Group .com

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Madcatz
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Jun 2006
                                                                                          • 204
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          they all shave, get over it

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Shap
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • May 2001
                                                                                              • 8313
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by Madcatz
                                                                                              they all shave, get over it
                                                                                              We don't and I know a handful of others that don't as well.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Worldsex
                                                                                                  Formerly Known as OkiDoki
                                                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                                                  • 331
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  I KNEW this pics would come in handy one day!!!




                                                                                                  this is the new modified 5.21 ultra smooth shaver,



                                                                                                  I think the images speak for themselves..

                                                                                                  Pierre
                                                                                                  (btw..if anybody wants to sell their site, contact me at my email listed at worldsex.com ;-)
                                                                                                  Last edited by Worldsex; 06-24-2006, 03:09 PM.
                                                                                                  Worldsex.com
                                                                                                  Al4a.com
                                                                                                  AskJolene.com

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • Shap
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • May 2001
                                                                                                      • 8313
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Worldsex
                                                                                                      I KNEW this pics would come in handy one day!!!




                                                                                                      this is the new modified 5.21 ultra smooth shaver,



                                                                                                      I think the images speak for themselves..

                                                                                                      Pierre
                                                                                                      (btw..if anybody wants to sell their site, contact me at my email listed at worldsex.com ;-)

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • RogerV
                                                                                                          Banned!
                                                                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                                                                          • 12591
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          I feel the same way we use Executive Stats to show we donhahaha8217;t shave. And we keep our payouts fair. We might not pay the most or the least but we right in the middle. Our growth is taking a little longer but my goal is to build reliable strong business relationships for long term

                                                                                                          Do webmasters care? ? I donhahaha8217;t think so they get comfortable with a sponsor because they donhahaha8217;t like to take a risk in possibly making more. they are happy with there checks LOL

                                                                                                          Shap when are we going to do some biz I'm ready whenever you are

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • Juicy D. Links
                                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                              • Apr 2001
                                                                                                              • 122992
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              i have caught a few myself and many others i have had "suspiscions"

                                                                                                              i go by my gut feeling ....

                                                                                                              btw my balls need shaving

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • Trade_Monkey
                                                                                                                  Traffic
                                                                                                                  • Nov 2004
                                                                                                                  • 673
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Shap, no need to defend yourself and twistyscash about this issue. Your program is one of a kind and rock solid.

                                                                                                                  Take care.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • jscott
                                                                                                                      jscizzle
                                                                                                                      • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                      • 25452
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      i think if a program can shave, they will shave (for the most part)
                                                                                                                      If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of.
                                                                                                                      - Jordan B. Peterson
                                                                                                                      Listen to Pomp tell why is Bitcoin important

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • Worldnet
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                          • 996
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Some of the big ones shave the worst. You know who you are. I won't stir up shit, but as long as some webmasters think its ok, as long as they get a check, it will continue. I would like to see someone bring on a criminal investigation one day put a stop to it.

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • FreeFastHost
                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                              • Oct 2001
                                                                                                                              • 1588
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by shap
                                                                                                                              btw how do you catch them? Why not list those that you caught?
                                                                                                                              I still send traffic to most of the programs I've caught, one of them I send around 50 signups/day to and they're even my #3 sponsor to this day (been promoting them for 3-4 years).

                                                                                                                              Sponsors shaving really means nothing to me, what it comes down to is the money I'm making. I'd definitely rather send my traffic to a sponsor that shaves and makes me $3k/day than send it to a sponsor that doesn't shave and makes me $2k/day, obviously.

                                                                                                                              I've never really even accused any programs of shaving, I usually just say "hey, this signup wasn't counted" and they know I know they're shaving

                                                                                                                              I have no reason to ever expose a program, they'd have to fuck me over pretty bad for me to do it.

                                                                                                                              For the record I highly doubt Twistys shaves, I have close friends whom are close friends with you and I only hear good things ;)

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • Shap
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • May 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 8313
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by FreeFastHost
                                                                                                                                  For the record I highly doubt Twistys shaves, I have close friends whom are close friends with you and I only hear good things ;)
                                                                                                                                  Thanks. Anytime you want to do business let me know

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • WiredGuy
                                                                                                                                      Pounding Googlebot
                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                      • 34515
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      I try not to think about the shave, I just look at my revenue per click and stick to those who make the best. Even if my top sponsors are shaving, they're still the most profitable. Its all about maximization of revenues.
                                                                                                                                      WG
                                                                                                                                      I play with Google.

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • Choppa
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Mar 2006
                                                                                                                                          • 4079
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          if you guys are worried about shaving download the clix shaveware in my sig
                                                                                                                                          and upload it to your server, it will tell you exactly what traffic you send and you can compare
                                                                                                                                          SexyAds: 10 years in business and still going strong. Become an affiliate today!




                                                                                                                                          Choppas ICQ: 283 090 747 Want to know more? [email protected]

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • Degenerate
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • May 2006
                                                                                                                                              • 1294
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by ChargebackJoe
                                                                                                                                              The 4 elements of the perfect shave:

                                                                                                                                              1. Start a thread about shaving
                                                                                                                                              2. Convince everyone that one is honest and does not shave
                                                                                                                                              3. See as the suckers sign up in droves
                                                                                                                                              4. Continue to shave their asses off while laughing all the way to the bank

                                                                                                                                              See sig.

                                                                                                                                              I think Shap said it right the first time:

                                                                                                                                              "There are so many morons here."

                                                                                                                                              Douche bag.
                                                                                                                                              .

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • DaddyHalbucks
                                                                                                                                                  A freakin' legend!
                                                                                                                                                  • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                                                  • 18975
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  It's a hard issue to nail down.
                                                                                                                                                  Boner Money

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • MaddCaz
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • Mar 2006
                                                                                                                                                      • 9483
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      probably quite a bit

                                                                                                                                                      BigCocks.com -
                                                                                                                                                      MatureWomen.com -
                                                                                                                                                      Tranny.com -
                                                                                                                                                      DrunkGirls.com -
                                                                                                                                                      TeenGirls.com -
                                                                                                                                                      MonsterCock.com and
                                                                                                                                                      many more... Click
                                                                                                                                                      here to see them all!

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • fallenmuffin
                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                                                                                                          • 8170
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Any program not using ccbill... Why switch from ccbill to nats unless you plain to shave? Really whats the point? Nats, blows..

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • Martin3
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Oct 2005
                                                                                                                                                              • 1529
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              They're many creative ways to shave. Take the Braincash "Free Porno Free Porn" 2257 link thats at the bottom of every gallery. Or galleries that have the full URL plastered all over the place on the top of the gallery and only actual links at the bottom. Tour leaks, the "accident" typo in the movie/pic name that 404's to their 404 page.

                                                                                                                                                              There's a billion ways to shave without actually shaving
                                                                                                                                                              264-543-302

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • madawgz
                                                                                                                                                                  8.8.8.8
                                                                                                                                                                  • Mar 2006
                                                                                                                                                                  • 30509
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Worldsex
                                                                                                                                                                  I KNEW this pics would come in handy one day!!!




                                                                                                                                                                  this is the new modified 5.21 ultra smooth shaver,



                                                                                                                                                                  I think the images speak for themselves..

                                                                                                                                                                  Pierre
                                                                                                                                                                  (btw..if anybody wants to sell their site, contact me at my email listed at worldsex.com ;-)
                                                                                                                                                                  funny shit!
                                                                                                                                                                  TAEMDLRMSKRJIXMRLSMRJ.

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • Shoehorn!
                                                                                                                                                                      Die With Your Boots On
                                                                                                                                                                      • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                                                      • 22872
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by fallenmuffin
                                                                                                                                                                      Any program not using ccbill... Why switch from ccbill to nats unless you plain to shave? Really whats the point? Nats, blows..
                                                                                                                                                                      I can think of many, many reasons. The first being tracking. The second being billing options. The third being more payout options. The list goes on. It is extremely moronic to say that a program would switch to NATS so that they can shave you.

                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                        • fallenmuffin
                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                                                                                                                          • 8170
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Shoehorn!
                                                                                                                                                                          I can think of many, many reasons. The first being tracking. The second being billing options. The third being more payout options. The list goes on. It is extremely moronic to say that a program would switch to NATS so that they can shave you.
                                                                                                                                                                          I'm not really saying it they are switching to NATS so they _can_ shave that was more of a sarcastic remark. My ratios drop with everyone that has switched from CCBill to NATS. That's all.

                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                            • Shoehorn!
                                                                                                                                                                              Die With Your Boots On
                                                                                                                                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                                                              • 22872
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by fallenmuffin
                                                                                                                                                                              I'm not really saying it they are switching to NATS so they _can_ shave that was more of a sarcastic remark. My ratios drop with everyone that has switched from CCBill to NATS. That's all.
                                                                                                                                                                              Ah, thats good.

                                                                                                                                                                              I've heard other people say the same thing about the ratios after a program switches. But the important question is do you make less money when they switch, or just see different ratios?

                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                • fallenmuffin
                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 8170
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Shoehorn!
                                                                                                                                                                                  Ah, thats good.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I've heard other people say the same thing about the ratios after a program switches. But the important question is do you make less money when they switch, or just see different ratios?
                                                                                                                                                                                  I never really totaled it up but right off hand I'm going to say less money or atleast it feels like that.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 52942
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      We are learning how to run a paysite and growing steadily. From the beginning we I decided to pay out around 1/3 of the turn over to affiliates. If you dream you get more from any sponsor then I have a bridge to sell and any sponsor who tells you he pays more than 1/3 of his T/O to affiliates think long and hard about. Think about costs and profit.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Soon we will increase the 60% base on Rev Share, PPS has been a flop so far and maybe it's because we only pay $25 as a base. And here is your problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                      It costs money to build and run a site, content, programming, staff, hosting, advertising for affiliates, processing, offices, etc. all taking money from the pot. Yet affiliates demand more and more. At some point we will do a big promotion offering as much as we can to get more affiliates and more members. But it will only be what we can afford.

                                                                                                                                                                                      If you don't want to be shaved don't rush to the sponsors whose payouts don't look feasible and don't believe all the BS about upsells. This industry has one of the worse reputations for customer satisfaction. So how do all these sites upsell so much to so many wary surfers?

                                                                                                                                                                                      If you want to earn the maximum amount of money send your traffic to the sites that earn you the most per hour of working and not the highest % or PPS.



                                                                                                                                                                                      Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                                                                                                                      PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                        • CumPacker
                                                                                                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 77
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          46.......

                                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                            • Shap
                                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                              • May 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 8313
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by fallenmuffin
                                                                                                                                                                                              Any program not using ccbill... Why switch from ccbill to nats unless you plain to shave? Really whats the point? Nats, blows..
                                                                                                                                                                                              That's a non experienced comment. Ccbill is not an affiliate program. They offer a free service. There is only so much accuracy you can get from a free service. Any company pushing large sales to affiliate programs will tell you that ccbill's affiliate program blows and makes them much less to affiliate programs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                • fallenmuffin
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 8170
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by shap
                                                                                                                                                                                                  That's a non experienced comment. Ccbill is not an affiliate program. They offer a free service. There is only so much accuracy you can get from a free service. Any company pushing large sales to affiliate programs will tell you that ccbill's affiliate program blows and makes them much less to affiliate programs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  How is that a non experienced comment? I'm not "pushing large sales" to affiliate programs per say. But I do a few hundred sales a month. And have for 8 months now. At the end of the day I perfer ccbill.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • scotty2hotty1111
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Apr 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 1113
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by ChargebackJoe
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The 4 elements of the perfect shave:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. Start a thread about shaving
                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Convince everyone that one is honest and does not shave
                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. See as the suckers sign up in droves
                                                                                                                                                                                                      4. Continue to shave their asses off while laughing all the way to the bank

                                                                                                                                                                                                      See sig.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      nice sad but true
                                                                                                                                                                                                      ICQ - 278931233




                                                                                                                                                                                                      Giving up is just NOT an option

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

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