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Halcyon

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#1

Who is ultimately responsible on set? Stunt Cock or Director?

06-16-2006, 10:20 AM

If an actress felt she was raped on set, would the stunt cock be responsible? Would the nature of the shoot matter? Would the presence of a handler matter?

I wonder how often scenarios like the Bubba fiasco happen with models who don?t have handlers with the influence of Mayor. Surely models must finish scenes all the time and feel like they were pushed further than they wanted.

Who is responsible?

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06-16-2006, 10:22 AM

unfortunately, this ain't an easy business and producers walk a very fine line with actors

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#3

06-16-2006, 10:24 AM

Good question. IMO I think everyone has to have some responsibility in a shoot or film. I think that if a girl or guy is having something done to them that hurts or they don't want to do then they should speak up and say so. I know that's easy to say as I have never been in that position.
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#4

06-16-2006, 10:25 AM

Everyone involved is responsible. Compare it to murder - the guy ordering it is responsible, as well as the guy carrying it out, as well as the guy standing on the side watching and doing nothing.

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#5

06-16-2006, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by punkworld

Everyone involved is responsible. Compare it to murder - the guy ordering it is responsible, as well as the guy carrying it out, as well as the guy standing on the side watching and doing nothing.

excellent answer the sad thing is it happens more than you think and thats a big reason people think we are all scumbags. Some feel they got to get the scene dont care about anything else. For us if the model is not having a good time we dont want to shoot it. I would rather stop the shoot then have a shitty scene.
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#6

06-16-2006, 10:36 AM

bubba is a button pusher and instigator. its his show, his circus, and his studio. having those girls in there naked and vulnerable to his direction was the mistake. people know when you go on that show you are subject to his harrassment. what happened sucks. the way it sounds to me mayor's standing friendship with bubba as well as brooke's is what was violated and taken advantage of. as i have said in other threads, had i taken models to do anything on the show, i would be in the room and have the right to film and control, or not one of them would have been there. the entity itself is responsible. a situation gone bad in this case.

without knowing what agreements were made on the backside before the show and what boundaries were set its tough to say. my guess is the mayor's crew was not allowed in so that bubba and his crew could pull that shit. they tried to get lia to do shit she didn't want to do and there was drama, not to mention they ambushed her with some really fucked up shit.

i mentioned this to mayor, and i know he is not a n00b here by any means. had i not been allowed in the studio to watch the girls and/or film, i woulda yanked them outta there so fast no one would have even known they were ever there.

everyone has a certain level of responsibility.

two cents.

i have many more dollars worth to add, but this isn't my business, i'm just trying to offer a small part of my opinion to maybe spark in other people how i feel.
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#7

06-16-2006, 10:57 AM

Bubba clearly went over the line in that video. If a model says "No" then you absolutely must stop. Does not matter that Bubba was not the one fucking her. Bubba was the "director" in that video and he fucked up in a very big way.

I lost count how many times Brooke protested what was being done to her.

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#8

06-16-2006, 11:03 AM

models dad?

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#9

06-16-2006, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Halcyon

If an actress felt she was raped on set, would the stunt cock be responsible? Would the nature of the shoot matter? Would the presence of a handler matter?

I wonder how often scenarios like the Bubba fiasco happen with models who don?t have handlers with the influence of Mayor. Surely models must finish scenes all the time and feel like they were pushed further than they wanted.

Who is responsible?

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Halcyon

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#10

06-16-2006, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Wanton

hit me with an emil if ya'd like to discuss this stuff for real . . bmb

email sent (but no biggie, I'm just curious)

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#11

06-16-2006, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Halcyon

If an actress felt she was raped on set, would the stunt cock be responsible? Would the nature of the shoot matter? Would the presence of a handler matter?

I wonder how often scenarios like the Bubba fiasco happen with models who don?t have handlers with the influence of Mayor. Surely models must finish scenes all the time and feel like they were pushed further than they wanted.

Who is responsible?

"handlers" - oh brother!

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#12

06-16-2006, 11:37 AM

Not many people have balls anymore because their wallets are attached to their balls. So if they see something happening that is probably "not kosher" they let it go because either they are being paid to look the other way, or money is being dangled somewhere down the line at them.

To many people I see lately are working for companies and hating it but staying with them because they need the job and cannot take the risk to leave and find another job.

my 2 cents

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#13

06-16-2006, 11:39 AM

Bubba is an asshole.
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#14

06-16-2006, 11:45 AM

Dunno... ask Max Hardcore, I'm she he could answer that

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#15

06-16-2006, 11:58 AM

I think it would be Jesus. He's ultimately the one in charge.

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#16

06-16-2006, 01:34 PM

Feeling one was raped and actually being raped is 2 totally diffent things.

I would think the person responsible in most cases is the owner/management of the establishment. That is why they must pay for insurance for any liabilities that may occur.

If you get a real answer post in this thread
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#17

06-16-2006, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by Herb Kornfield

Bubba is an asshole.

I don't think Howard should have taken him aboard. His show sucks.
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#18

06-16-2006, 01:56 PM

LET THE LAWYERS decide.

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#19

06-16-2006, 02:00 PM

I have seen some VERY irresponsible shit on sets before from both actors and the director. I know some shady fucking directors (well known) who will let things go on that should get him black balled from the industry. Things like lying to the male talent about the female talent being tested, but the guy is irresponsible and doesn't ask to see her test, and the girl doesn't say anything either. Things like gay bareback anal sex with ONLY an Elisa test. Things like shoot underage models and photoshopping the IDs. I've been the one to stop some shit on other peoples set and they get pissed at me like I did something wrong.

I'd LOVE to out some of the creeps I know, but somehow, someway they would come out smelling like roses and me like shit. Always happens that way. So for now I just don't go around them anymore and wait for their day to come.
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#20

06-16-2006, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Holly

I think it would be Jesus. He's ultimately the one in charge.

All part of Gods master plan.
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#21

06-16-2006, 02:19 PM

Halcyon - I think PunkWorld had a good input in this topic, in that EVERYONE is responsible. However, there is still a chain of command - thus, even in PunkWorld's murder analogy not everyone connected to a murder receives equal punishment.

The mastermind and authority is by far the most responsible. So I would have to say that would usually point to the Director as being the main person responsible, and all others involved are responsible as well to lesser degrees.

Often, the model herself is responsible to a very small degree - as is the industry as a whole.

Supposedly, Karma works the same way.

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#22

06-16-2006, 02:26 PM

Halcyon - I think PunkWorld had a good input in this topic, in that EVERYONE is responsible. However, there is still a chain of command - thus, even in PunkWorld's murder analogy not everyone connected to a murder receives equal punishment.

The mastermind and authority is by far the most responsible. So I would have to say that would usually point to the Director as being the main person responsible, and all others involved are responsible as well to lesser degrees.

Often, the model herself is responsible to a very small degree - as is the industry as a whole.

Supposedly, Karma works the same way.

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Halcyon

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#23

06-16-2006, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Kick Ass Vic

Halcyon - I think PunkWorld had a good input in this topic, in that EVERYONE is responsible. However, there is still a chain of command - thus, even in PunkWorld's murder analogy not everyone connected to a murder receives equal punishment.

The mastermind and authority is by far the most responsible. So I would have to say that would usually point to the Director as being the main person responsible, and all others involved are responsible as well to lesser degrees.

Often, the model herself is responsible to a very small degree - as is the industry as a whole.

Supposedly, Karma works the same way.

I agree about responsibility all around.

But the murder analogy doesn't *quite* work because there is rarely debate as to if someone is dead. (unless we're talking Bruce Lee)

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#24

06-16-2006, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Halcyon

I agree about responsibility all around.

But the murder analogy doesn't *quite* work because there is rarely debate as to if someone is dead. (unless we're talking Bruce Lee)

Eh. Yeah. But the analogy is just meant in so far as shared responsibility for a crime.

Though you now raise an interesting point. It's like a payout. First we must decide if there is anything to pay out. Then we decide who participated in generating that captial and how much of it they each deserve to get paid out.

Deciding whether or not an allegation of rape is valid is a seperate issue from deciding who is or is not responsible and to what extent.

Regardless, an allegation of rape is pretty serious in and of itself.

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#25

06-16-2006, 03:00 PM

The smart thing to do is everytime you finish a shoot, while giving the model her paycheck, ask if she was under the influence of anything and/or raped for this production and be sure to video tape it.

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#26

06-16-2006, 03:55 PM

Any actor at anytime can withdraw their consent.

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Halcyon

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#27

06-16-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Big Red Machine

Any actor at anytime can withdraw their consent.

You mean, during a shoot, right? Not after?

From the Bubba tape, do you think that qualified as withdrawing consent?

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#28

06-16-2006, 04:05 PM

If anyone feels uncomfortable at any point they need to stop, speak up, and stand their ground. If it's not consenting adults, it doesn't belong in porn. Period.

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#29

06-16-2006, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by NoWhErE

The smart thing to do is everytime you finish a shoot, while giving the model her paycheck, ask if she was under the influence of anything and/or raped for this production and be sure to video tape it.

I have a feeling that Halcyon made this thread because he is concerned about protecting the model, not the producer you scumbag.

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#30

06-16-2006, 04:12 PM

Not a lawyer, but the producer is calling the shots. Of course with someone like Bubba, what control does the producer have? For that matter, ya think a producer has much control over say David Letterman?
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#31

06-16-2006, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Cyndalie

If anyone feels uncomfortable at any point they need to stop, speak up, and stand their ground. If it's not consenting adults, it doesn't belong in porn. Period.

And if they stop, should they still get paid? Alot of models will go thru the session even if they fill uncomfortable because they need the money...
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#32

06-16-2006, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Halcyon

You mean, during a shoot, right? Not after?

From the Bubba tape, do you think that qualified as withdrawing consent?

Honestly I didn't see the photoage ,so I can't answer.
I meant in general for any shoot.

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Big Red Machine

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#33

06-16-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Alex from Montreal

And if they stop, should they still get paid? Alot of models will go thru the session even if they fill uncomfortable because they need the money...

Its a job so of course its about the money. (NOT talking about Brooke)

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Halcyon

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#34

06-16-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by pussyluver

Not a lawyer, but the producer is calling the shots. Of course with someone like Bubba, what control does the producer have? For that matter, ya think a producer has much control over say David Letterman?

Good point.

Who was "responsible" for janet's nipple? The show, not the artist, right?

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#35

06-16-2006, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Harrison Richard

I have a feeling that Halcyon made this thread because he is concerned about protecting the model, not the producer you scumbag.

lol, scumbag?

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#36

06-16-2006, 04:42 PM

the director without a doubt - bubba needs his ass kicked

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#37

06-16-2006, 04:46 PM

The buck has to stop somwhere and I am of the opinion that it stops with the producer. Whoever produces that show should be hel accountable.

I agree 100% that Bubba is a douchebag. But I have also been in the minority for saying I am not so sure guys like him and Howard Stern are doing our industry any good. Their frat boy understanding of what we do has only one place in my mind. Behind their computers with their pants down around their ankles and a lube stain on their credit cards.

Lets hope mainstream media doesnt pick up on this. It will not be good for any of us.

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#38

06-16-2006, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Halcyon

You mean, during a shoot, right? Not after?

From the Bubba tape, do you think that qualified as withdrawing consent?

yes. if the model is not comfortable with a scene.

Because brooke wasnt [ insert your opinion here ] doesnt mean she didnt have the right of refusal.

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#39

06-16-2006, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by pussyluver

Not a lawyer, but the producer is calling the shots. Of course with someone like Bubba, what control does the producer have? For that matter, ya think a producer has much control over say David Letterman?

no offense but obviously you

havent worked in or for a major media company

or are just clueless.

Executive Producers are the money people.

Money makes the rules.

in david lettermans case the producers are CBS. dave is an empolyee. If they dont likw what dave does Bye Bye Dave.

as for bubba hes a shitstain on the toilet of whoever he works for. Hes told what he can and cant do.

thinks about it, whos has the most pull?: tom cruise or the guy who puts up 150 million to make a film?

apply that to every media, film radio tv ect and you get the picture.

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#40

06-16-2006, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Alex from Montreal

And if they stop, should they still get paid? Alot of models will go thru the session even if they fill uncomfortable because they need the money...

Accepting money means they consent to the release of the content.
These things need to be discussed before hand anyway, what will done, in sequence, what toys (approved by model), having a plan and sticking to it gives everyone a feeling of confidence and control - important for a good shoot (and good sex). Porn should still have the element of 'acting' so if the producers wants to create a scene to give an impression, everyone has to be comfortable - you can't force it on someone. Recipe for disaster. As we now know.

Any model in porn because 'they need the money' should be a red flag.

If someone is unsure it should be, go home try it with your bf or take this toy home and see what you can do with it the night before. This is a business! Solo vs interactive shoots is very different, any first timers should go through a run through without cameras and shit, esp with these younger hotties. Confidence is HOT.

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#41

06-16-2006, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by MrIzzz

unfortunately, this ain't an easy business and producers walk a very fine line with actors

Agree there Mr IZZZ.....its a very fine line

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#42

06-16-2006, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Halcyon

Good point.

Who was "responsible" for janet's nipple? The show, not the artist, right?

Well in reality anyone can do a wrong at anytime in front of a camera. So if Jay Leno whips out his cock. It was his own doing, but you can bet that the network will be paying the FCC fine.

In everything I've been involved with (mostly mainstream), a producer is on site making the final decisions. With porn, esp at the amateur level, well it is fairly free flowing.... BUT even the simplest of shoots have a plan and someone is in charge of what is going to happen generally. My experience is that person is usually called the producer and is typically associated with the people paying for the production.

In this case there were a number of interests. The radio show and two programs with their talent.

I don't think anyone really gives a rats ass what I think and I'm not an attorney. I think the program producers had a responsibility to protect their talent. I think the talent had a right to say no and should of asserted it if that is the way they felt. How are we suppose to know if there was some drama there for the radio audiance?

In the end if Brooke was hurt, the producers of the program bare the major responsibility and then Bubba. It appeared to me that bubba was touching both girls and put Brooke at risk after she raised concern. That's my after all I've read and have seen of the whole thing.

A major concern is how is Brooke now, is she ok?

Note again I am not an attorney, this is my lay opinion.
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#43

06-16-2006, 05:09 PM

If Mellisa shares the content with Brooke, I bet this would be all cleared up.

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#44

06-16-2006, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Halcyon

If an actress felt she was raped on set, would the stunt cock be responsible? Would the nature of the shoot matter? Would the presence of a handler matter?

I wonder how often scenarios like the Bubba fiasco happen with models who don?t have handlers with the influence of Mayor. Surely models must finish scenes all the time and feel like they were pushed further than they wanted.

Who is responsible?

Where does the responsibility end?

If we know of a video or photoshoot where we believe or have some evidence that a model was raped or sexually assaulted, is it our responsibility as industry professionals to report the information to the proper authorities?

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#45

06-16-2006, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Big Red Machine

If Mellisa shares the content with Brooke, I bet this would be all cleared up.

We drifted off topic. The original question was director or stunt cock responsibility. As a person the stunt cock should know when to stop. I think the civil liability goes to production and the criminal can go either way or both?

Again, I'm not an attorney, lay opinion.
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#46

06-16-2006, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by sinclair

The buck has to stop somwhere and I am of the opinion that it stops with the producer. Whoever produces that show should be hel accountable.

I agree 100% that Bubba is a douchebag. But I have also been in the minority for saying I am not so sure guys like him and Howard Stern are doing our industry any good. Their frat boy understanding of what we do has only one place in my mind. Behind their computers with their pants down around their ankles and a lube stain on their credit cards.

Lets hope mainstream media doesnt pick up on this. It will not be good for any of us.

Sinclair

Very well said.

I think it's obvious who is responsible primarily: whomever everyone else would normally listen to on set is ultimately responsible for not ordering everyone else to cut, stop, separate, discuss, work it out, etc.

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#47

06-16-2006, 06:14 PM

Heres alittle insite, the girl can stop at any time. For ex. if shes being gagged to hard and trys to push away and the guy doesnt let her off, its the director or next responsible to stop it. And now the girls are filmed prior to shooting with no makeup on stating that "they are here on their own free will". No bullshit, this is how the big companies cover there asses.
I just had to do this myself 2 weekends ago. Freaked me the fuck out.

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#48

06-16-2006, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by SgtStrider

Heres alittle insite, the girl can stop at any time. For ex. if shes being gagged to hard and trys to push away and the guy doesnt let her off, its the director or next responsible to stop it. And now the girls are filmed prior to shooting with no makeup on stating that "they are here on their own free will". No bullshit, this is how the big companies cover there asses.
I just had to do this myself 2 weekends ago. Freaked me the fuck out.

girls that are 19 sometimes does realize that or they dont want to make anyone angry. So bad things happen and no one on the set has balls because they want to get paid.
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