ARS might go back on the blacklist...

Thanks 12clicks
OK Topic=CONSOLES OR NOT
Personally I dont like them.
Do I use them?
Yes and No.
On my regular sites,AVS sites no I dont and
never did.
On my Top list and CJ site Yes I do.
Why ? Because they work on these sites.
Easy and simple.

Susan

Finally, a message to all Americans. Please don?t forget that not all countries are used to the cold heavy weight marketing techniques employed in the US.

Yes I agree,but lets not forget 90%
people who spend money on the net are from
North America.But I hope the rest of the world will catch up.

This is a topic I feel strongly about.

Pop-ups SUCK! They are bad business in most ways. On the other hand, They make up for a lot of income some lose to other parts of this biz, free sites, TGPs, etc. There has to be an even ground and by reading this thread and about a 100 others, nobody has the answer, it's just a matter of opinion. I've already posted numerous times on my feelings on freeloaders. Fuck Them. They should get what they can get and deal with us trying to pay for them getting what their getting. Paysites and Sponsors, totally different story. Stop trying to make our lives harder...pretty please ?

Susan, good points.

Warphead, very good points.

Mindwaste, if you offer them an option to kill pop-ups, who will ever see them? you think anyone will ever opt to have pop-ups?

VIP, nice, effective analogy.

HQ, alot of good points. I don't feel like that. I'm just like you and a lot do...network with those that you feel are honest webmasters and fuck stats, uniques etc.... and conversions will come back 10 fold in the long run (notice I said long run LOL).

Lightning, I think that was the point, wasn't it? A debate does not equate to a pissing match. It is for the good of our biz and to all of us to hear differing points of views and decide where we stand or to help us figure out where we stand. If someone posts a thread that everyone agrees to, that in my, humble opinion, is often a waste of time, or JUST for fun. Boards were set up to get info(or maybe to have fun or get to know each other). There is a number of different ways to do this. One of which is a good ol' fashioned debate .

My bottom line is I hate pop-ups and I'm an adult webmaster, think about how our consumers feel. At the same time there is a need for them in certain circumstances, I would list the specific circumstances, but shit, you all know so I won't waste time. I personally do not use them, but, if I am losing money consistently on a site, I will not think twice about selling my exit traffic, if need be. I hope I never have to, and keeping my shit as clean as I do, if my sponsors take the, what I deem as greedy or the easy road, that pisses me off.

April

Oh BTW, alot of us are bitchin at each other and we know damn well that is the newbies or the ones in it for the short run or teenagers with no jobs and too much time on their hands, for the most part, that do us the most damage as far as how our consumers respond to us. Pop-Ups, blind links, Site descriptions that don't follow through, etc.

I sense a new thread LOL.

Good post April.
And believe me almost every sponsor uses
exit console,I see nothing wrong with this unless it's endless pop up hell.
ARS is great sponsor I use them and love them.Yes they use exit consoles and those
consoles work.About 30 % of my sales
come from their consoles.
So baning anyone sponsor who use them
is just ridiculous.Sponsors need to make money to stay in the game and those pop us
help them.

[This message has been edited by Rose (edited 03-31-2001).]

You guys just love the Hun. I'm getting pictures of Joseph Stalin and Chairman Mao in my head. You guys fall in line like sheep when Comrade Hun speaks. But ask yourself this: If the Hun was giving it to you up the ass would he have the common courtesy to give you a reach-around?



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http://www.sweetjimmy.com/



[This message has been edited by sweetjimmy (edited 03-31-2001).]

Thanks Rose.

Sweetjimmy, did I say fuck shit about the Hun? Ooooh Boy, nobody has tried my patience more than you ove the last couple of months, than my ex did for years. What's your real name? Are you sure you're not originally from Oregon, because god-damn if you don't sound like the same damn arrogant, stubborn bastard that knocked me up LOL.

lol ... "reach-around"

April, your so right, I love to offer my help and opinions in any constructive debate, I just hate when they get turned into a pissing match..
All your comments are excellent. And Rose, How the heck are you babe.. Havent talked to you in a long time, hit me on icq

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Smile and Be Happy

Lightning Free Hosting

You just proved my point by defending your god so quickly. I bet you wouldn't even have the balls to tell the hun you don't like the color yellow.

I hope the hun is happy with his prize for longest thread this week. He's probably hard up for money and needs one.

Lightning, you spineless automaton, I wonder why you would spring to the huns defence. Surely your doing it out of the goodness of your own heart and not because he sends you millions of hits.

Hey I'm sorry I just call em like I see them. And right now I'm seeing alot of brown nosing and ass kissing.

hey the hun if u dont want your dvd player.. send it over to me i wouldnt mind getting a dvd player..

"I'm not touching this one with a forty foot pole"

-Chef South Park

Oh yeah, I forgot to put in my two cents about the subject of this stupid thread.

I say fuck the surfer. It's all about the bottom line and the bottom line is to get the fucken money. Get the money by any means necessary. I don't care if your robbing senile pensioners of their life savings it's all about the Benjamins.

If you people think dialers are ethical what the fuck could you possibly have against pop-ups? I'm sure Amateur Pages couldn't pay you that sweet 4 cents a click if they didn't have those pop-ups.

And what is this about "I hate it when these threads turn into a pissing match?" Did you read your address box? It says GOFUCKYOURSELF.COM for fucks sakes. This place has been getting pretty lame I think I'm gonna go watch Springer.

Yeah man , "Fuck the surfer"
Are you planning on staying in this business for a long time?
Some of us do ... and thinking "fuck the surfer" isnt the way to go . Maybe it was , 3 years ago . Not anymore

GFY

Sweetjimmy, First of all I didnt enter any opinion on this thread at all. I just commented on the fact that I like to help people as much as I can, in a professional manner, such as a good debate. And I cannot stand when ignorant people turn a good thread or discussion into a pissing match.
My thoughts on The Hun's rules or any other tgp for that matter, are not based on my personnal opinions, but rather those opinions of the many webmasters that host with us. They are the ones that like Hun's and other tgp's traffic. My personnal feelings and opinions in this matter are really irrevelent to the business decision that we at Lightning Free have to make.

I hope this helped shed some light on your worthless and un called for attack on me.

OK now "Go Fuck Yourself"

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Smile and Be Happy

Lightning Free Hosting

user sweetjimmy,

if you lack the necessary vocabulary to express your thoughts in a civilised and rational manner you should at least refrain yourself from posting vulgarity.
It's not by making personal attacks on other businessman that you will get your point across.
All you manage to do with your confrontational behaviour is to discredit yourself and any valid point you might want to bring to the discussion.

regards,
Thunder

All I have to say is I definately learn something each time I come to this board..Alot of good points were made.There are alot of very experienced people here.And a hello to patrick and everyone here as well.

Yeah pissing matches suck...

SNOW
vipdialer.com

Still talking about the endless pop-up consoles when you click a banner?

I know I'm not clicking on any ARS banners anymore when using a cable modem...

I wonder why the FTC is looking at you guys in the US, anything to do with the way the surfer is being fucked?

And we want to be taken serious?

I agree with Jimmy that dialers do the same thing as those pop-ups.

I also know that pop-ups means more direct sales for some of you.

It has all got to do with how much of these agressive ways of marketing we are going to use in the future before the FTC says to all of you, Go Fuck Yourself...
Pop-ups can be effective when you set short term goals and dialers are a good alternative billing method if you tell the end user the rate he is about to pay...

BTW we dutch sold New York (first known as New Amsterdam) to the english, including Harlem. I wonder why

Ever heard of Heineken, Shell, Philips, Ahold or Unilever. Marketing is more than making money, as much as possible, in one day...

I think most answers speak for themselves. I see people here bringing a point across and I see people here bashing others for not agreeing with them, or bashing others for agreeing with someone they don't agree with. So far I didn't hear an awful lot of positive arguments for consoles. The only one I did see was "I get 30% from my revenue from consoles". Good point. But I wonder how many sales you would get that click, but don't sign up right away. Especially newbies want to see options. They don't know what's around. So they click a banner. Might think "that's nice" but click back. That person might very well sign up later. But if they're trapped in a loop of consoles they might not click any banners at all.

Funny to see how people are comparing me with dictators. People that lower themselves to remarks like that clearly don't have any better defences. I'm not telling people what to do, simple. I don't run the Internet. The Internet will survive even if I wouldn't be here. So how am I in the position to dictate? I do know I'm making money. And I do know have been doing that for quite some time and I don't think I'll stop very soon. So I must be doing something right huh? The good thing about an honest income is that is lasts. I don't have to worry about traffic every day 'cause I know that as long as I keep treating my visitors with the upmost respect that they'll be back some day.

I started this thread in order to get a discussion going. That worked. I know I send a lot of traffic to paysites. If not through my own sites then indirectly throught the 80 galleries that are listed every day. I don't like telling people what sponsors they can't use. It would be great if those sponsors would have figured out non-annoying ways of getting traffic themselves. There are a few sponsors eligable to be blacklisted. Those are pretty big sponsors (ARS, Join4free, sweetloads, Babylon-X, CyberErotica, to name a few). All these programs have been making webmasters a lot of money. And they proved to be reliable when it comes to paying out their webmasters. And I have a lot of respect for that. The simplest solution would be a separate sponsor program that doesn't pop up a list of consoles. And that can be done very easily by sending traffic to a different URL. I could adapt my bot so it would tell people that the sponsor is good, but that they need to change their URL to one that doesn't pop up the loop of consoles. I think it would be a big shame to entirly blacklist these programs.

So, I'm open for this dialog. And I really hope the sponsors will go for this. I know I can send the traffic to justify the extra work. Some sponsors have done things like these already (truecelebs for instance), which is great. That sponsor can make money the way they want. And I don't have problems sending them traffic as long as I'm sure that my visitors are not trapped in a loop of consoles. That's the solution I like to see in the near future.

Wow this is a great thread, finally got the time to read it all.

Ok I got many thoughts bare with me.

1. I'm pretty sure the browser "Opera" has already implemented popup disable features and target override features.
There is demand for this to be written into Mozilla/Netscape, so that will proably come around eventually. IE on the other hand, will probably never remove the popups. First of all it's very difficult to disable Javascript in IE and IE is weird they do a lot of messed up error corrections, that just make people bad coders.

2. As a surfer I personally don't like pop up windows.

3. As a webmaster I barely use them, and never abuse them.

4. A lot of you had good points. The one about pop ups not respecting the surfer. That's was good.
Some people may be agreeing but not realise it.
I agree with sweetjimmy where he said fuck the surfer. I think what he ment was fuck a surfer that doesn't pay for porn. And respect the surfer, I agree with that too. I think that if someone is just in search of free porn then you shouldn't be concerned with their surfing experience, but when you pay for porn you shouldn't see pop ups in the members section (it does happen).

If you go to a restaurant, try the food (eat 25% percent of the meal) then leave and not pay. The owner is going to take a fuck you attitude, even if he's a great business man and a nice person.
But if you go in an pay for a meal he is going to treat you like a king. Or at least he should.

5. I think Susan said something about the ?must have factor? girl. That's a great way to sell porn. But it sadens me that we have to resort to those tactics. Because as a guy, I know it shouldn't be that hard to sell porn. When it comes to naked woman we are an easy sale. Making us get a crush on a girl before paying for porn, is a great way to sell porn, but it marks a sad state of this industry.

6. This board is great, because all of use having our own opinion is great, but this industry is like the oil industry. What one company does effects everybody else.
If I open up a gas station and start giving regular gas away for free, but charge for premium. A lot of people are going to go out of business.
If I open up a pay porn site and start giving out free memberships. It's going to be hard for many webmasters to convert their pay sites.
Free access to full porn sites is already happening. I mean most trial sign ups are a great deal, people should be able to risk $3 on a porn site to see if they like it.
But free, a lot of people just sign up then cancel.
I'm not saying that not giving away free pics is the solution (although I've held this thought for a few weeks). But discretion is needed.
I could make an argument that free hosting harms the porn biz (what's up Lightning, don't take offense). Because a lot of newbies post a lot of free pics and sometimes without sponsors. And they sometimes don't own the content and they post to TGPs. I'm not wiz when it comes to TGP's but if they are great for making sales then why do people want to use free hosting to post their pics?


7. Everything The Hun mentioned that is not available for free, but available in pay sites. I've seen all that for free, high quality too. Unfortunately I can't find any exact urls at this moment


8. Most surfers still use dial up connections to the internet, so the biggest format they demand as far as porn goes is images. Most people don't want to wait 2 hours to blow their load. So I've spent nights thinking about how so much free pictures on the net effects sales overall.
I don't think it's harder to make money in the porn industry now from 5 years ago because there are more webmasters, I mean there are more surfers too. I think free porn is too easy to get.

When I first got the internet, a long time ago, when I wasn't old enough to view or pay for porn, I used to search and search hard. And I think I would have paid for porn if I had a credit card at that time. Now that I'm a webmaster, I can find more free porn than I care to spend time looking at. I'm no longer an ideal customer.

9. What about these full page pop ups. I hate those, they are crazy, I would never sign up to a site that consumed my whole screen. (Netscape users dont know what Im talking about).

10. This bizness is about sales, not clicks not 3 cents per blind. About sales.
I used to think it was about clicks, till I got ripped by a bunch of click companies (same ones most people got fucked by).
When thinking should we use pop ups, it's all about what will get more sales. Today and Tomorrow.

11. Sponsors with pop ups, isn't very good.
Cybererotica drives me nutts with theirs.
I think if they popped up 1 console, with links to all their niches that would be cool.


12. The Hun, I like free porn so don't get offended by the stuff i've said.
Lightning, free hosting is what got me started in the biz, so aint against that either.

What sweetjimmy said about Stalin and Mao is actually a very important thing, not that I think the Hun is either. But a lot of people have a tendency to bow to people in power instead of question them. And since the people in power have the most opportunity to do good and to do harm, it's always best to questions and evaluate.


13. If I think of anything else, it will be in the next post

Peace,
Pete Dogg


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[This message has been edited by Pete Dogg (edited 04-01-2001).]

Pete, don't worry, I'm not easily offended ;-)... About the high quality images/movies/chat you found. I'm pretty sure that if I would link that it would go out of business simply because the bandwidth it takes is not affordable outside of a paysite.

Your examples are nice, but I don't agree fully. They're close though. I was in a mall in Florida (sawgrass it was I think) and at the food-court they gave me enough samples to be considered a small meal. I bought at the place with the best sample. And porn can be better compared to cars, not gas. And 175,000 dollar cars still sell although there are cars availble for 10,000 and less. I am still convinced that what a paysite can offer can not be equalled by a free site. And that's good. 'cause after all this business in indeed about sales. There's nothing wrong with making money on the web. It's just the way some people are forcing their stuff on people that starts to bother me.

Yes this business is about sales not clicks.
But some people think otherwise.All they check is counters.It's easy to get 100 000
worthless hits.But not easy to get 10 000
good hits.I agree there is too much free stuff on the net.
Only people who pay for porn are newbie surfers.More experienced will not pay for it.

Saying there's too much free porn on the web is like saying there's too much free oxygen for people to breathe. Free porn will be there. But the high quality will still be limited to paysites simply 'cause bandwidth is unaffordable for high quality with no access fee.

But that was not the point of this thread. Paysites need to make it clear what they offer. Niche, new pics, no commerce, movies, series, chat, live cams, but they don't need consoles to do that. I'm still waiting for a sponsor that does use a loop of exit consoles to contribute to this discussion. I offered a solution a couple of posts back...

I dont think that anyone from ARS will come here. If they wanna pop up consoles they will do it, it's about their bottom line
not about your opinion

Just like the time they removed the entrapment and dropped me an e-mail so I could take 'em of the blacklist, right? Stop being an ass Rose. I have a lot of respect for ARS. And I'm not trying to tell them what to do, I'm trying to get to a solution that works for everybody. That is constructive. But it seems that might be a term unknown to you. Please stay out of this discussion if you can only see black and white. What would you think works better for an advertiser. Being blacklisted or being suggested as a good sponsor with an alternative program? You do the math.

LOL
So why did they put consoles back in?
Maybe we should meet for a lunch Hun.
I'll be in Amsterdam in 2 months.

I said they removed the entrapment. That is not back at ARS. I don't see any reason to meet. You seem to have no respect at all for people that don't share your opinion. Fine with me, but I doubt I want to waste a day on that. Sorry

LOL
I'll survive..
I have lots of respect for others.
You dont know me.
It's democracy,everyone is entitled to their
opinions.But every time you post it's only I ban ARS or I ban Porncity.Personally I dont care cause I dont post to your TGP.
And this is only my opinion,if you allow me
"Sites like yours do more damage to this industry than some pop ups,They educate
surfers that there is everything for free
on the net"
And yes you can get free video, free feeds
and almost anything pay site offers on the net if you look.If you want to find it you will.
This is my opinion.

I think that I made this industry a lot of money instead of costing it too much... Sites like mine are inevidable. And judging by the amount of advertising inquiries that come in every day people must be making money Rose. So your opinion that my site only does bad for the industry (of course you're entitled to your own opinion) is not based on the numbers I have here. Looking at those numbers people make money. Most advertisers renew their banners on my page. And why would 75,000 people click on a banner every day if they found everything they want for free. A paysite that offers the same quality that can be found on the web for free is indeed hurt by the free porn. But why make people pay for what they can find for free.

Indeed, there are free chats and livecams out there, but I'm pretty sure that if they submit to my site and get listed that they'll be out of business pretty quick.

Is pay tv hurt by the public channels? Are exclusive restaurants hurt by McDonnalds? Are sweet hotels hurt by youth hostels? Is volkswagen hurt by Ferrari? I don't think so. Quality has it's price. If paysites would agree with what you say, why would they have invented affiliate programs? Those programs are made to traffic into money. Affiliate programs would be absolutely worthless without sites like mine. 'cause without galleries and linksites paysites are limited to search-engine advertising and adds in printed media. And you know as well as I do that those don't do affiliates.

If we'd close all free sites today what will happen then? Search-engines would make a lot of money. So people would start building search-engines and link-sites or some other directory of what's out there. Simply 'cause traffic means being able to send traffic over to a sponsor, which means making money. So soon advertisers will start giving free previews away. And soon they will start giving free content to create the most goodwill and the highest amount of impressions on their banners in order to make sales. But isn't that exactly what is happening right now? The way things are going right now is inevidable. Saying that free content is costing paysites revenue is naive.

If there's no previews on the web anymore people would start putting their own pictures on the web (like what happened 8 years ago when I started). I think amateurpages would be one of first to see an oppertunity there. And they would be right. This market is a little more complicated then "what's avaible for free can't be sold anymore". It's about telling people what's out there. Giving people options. And trying to please the customer so eventually he'll pay and stay. 'cause the real money is in recurring sales. I know this market very well Rose, I looked at it from more than just my side.

Hun
You are entitled to your opinion.Free stuff
is here to stay I know.As I stated in some other post sites like yours could be great tool,but unfortunately is not.Free stuff should be just tease and not 30 extreme
hardcore penetration.Me personally I think
that stuff shouldnt be for free at all.
Oh well. I am off to spend some time with my son.They changed to summer time last nite
and it always seems to screw your day.
You guys in Europe had it done last week,right?
Good luck to you Hun and no hard feelings
It's nothing personal.

Rose, might indeed be a good idea to spend the day that way. Summertime was here last week indeed. And if you pay the sushi I might consider coming to Amsterdam after all ;-)

But anyway, this discussion was about the consoles. I'm pretty sure this thread will eventually make it to the sponsors in question. I hope there'll be a reaction...

Quote from Hun

But the high quality will still be limited to paysites simply 'cause bandwidth is unaffordable for high quality with no access fee.

***********************
I think the free hosting services take care of the bandwidth bill.

I have to agree on the too much free stuff part, it is taking away that tease trap. Much of the free stuff is provided by pay sites or content providers supported by paysites so maybe in the end it will regulate itself. Has anyone else noticed the very cheap content coming from the East, thats not helping either. I have a contact in Russia who will give me red hot hardcore at 25c/pic.

I personaly don't think Console Hell is the way to go...but neither is 100% surfer friendly free porn. There has got to be a middle ground.

As a web newbie, I surfed around looking for free porn. I quickly learned not to click on banners because of the never ending popups. I eventuallly discovered which sites offered content, and which were payprograms. I found free porn...but never enough to rock my world. The lack of quality and content led me to an AVS membership.

All was good untill I discovered the TGP's Hundreds of galleries of new daily free porn! I can truthfully say that I never used my AVS key again.

Now dont get me wrong, Im not trying to say that all surfers act in the same manner as I.
I just feel there needs to be middle ground based on the two extremes. Console Hell may catch a few people...but shun many away from ever clicking on a banner again. I no longer use banners on my sites, or on my galleries...they just don't convert very well.

I also agree that there is way too much free porn out there. I dont necessarily think it's the fault of the TGP's, but of the webmasters submiting the galleries. 99% of the galleries out there leave nothing to the imagination. They show everything the surfer wants. If the surfer can get off for free, he's not going to pay for more.

I agree with Susan about the free hosts...the free hosts take care of badwidth problem, so the quality of material availble for free is amazing.

I run a movie post site. Most movie sites are extremely clean...and IMO make it way to easy to get free movies (they are all hosted on Yahoo, so badwith is not an issue either). Im constantly debating with other webmasters about the meaning of "Quality Traffic" Is quality traffic the surfer sent to you who wants noting more than to download your free content? Or is "Quality Traffic" a surfer sent to you who buys into a sponsor?
How can you distinguish between the two? I really dont think you can. So that's why there has got to be a middle ground between "Fuck the Surfer" and "Give the Surfer Everything For Free" A little less consoles, and a little less free porn. Would do us all good.

Maybee "Give the surfer everything for free...then Fuck'em!" HaHaHa

We don't care to use consoles either but may add one here and there to see how they do.

And wait a sec.... you host adult movies thru a YAHOO acct?????????

Planning on doing a tour of all our programs soon to see who is being ridiculous with consoles. Maybe we should all post the results so that we can band together and tell the programs to calm it down or we quit using them. And we need to try and do something about the content sponsors provide us with too. If *all* they supply us with is pure hardcore, what else can we do to promote them but use it? TGPs surely won't post the gals with stars on them either even tho it will probably end up going to that whether they like it or not...

Exxxotica
Well said
That's what I was saying.All the surfer need is to bookmark 3 or 4 big Gallery posts
and Movie Posts and he never needs to pay for porn.He has more than he ever needs.
And if he pulls CC than he is braindead
or doesnt care about money.4 big TGP's
80 galleries ,20 pics or movies on each gallery,that's about 6 400 free daily pictures,mostly hardcore, 198 400 new pictures and movies every month.Do you really think he
needs more ?

First of all I'd like to commend all you kids on your excellent essays. Here's a couple smiley faces for you:

Second of all, I'm sorry Hun I shouldn't compare you to a dictator because your more like a Senator, Senator Joseph McCarthy in fact. I wish you luck in hunting down those pinko pop up sponsors and putting them on your blacklist.

But you do dictate who gets linked to your website and you do dictate what sponsors your webmaster peasantry can use on their galleries. Personally I don't like big TGP's that place all these demands on webmasters who are dependant on them doling out the ol' bread ration. If ARS is not an acceptable banner for your webmasters to display then what's next? Amateur Pages? They got pop ups why not blacklist them? Pretty soon the only advertising these poor bastards can use is not what makes them money but what fits into you agenda.

You can do what you want. The internet is all about freedom and its not your fault alot of numbnut webmasters depend on you. But don't forget you depend on the webmasters. Your site has no content of its own its just a list of links. You create nothing. The only thing you have to do is copy and paste a couple links everyday. You should be grateful to your proletariat masses and give them some fair warning about the new laws you pass down. At least a couple of months in advance since thats how long it takes you to list their galleries.

I thought you were dead anyway. Did you have a clone cryogenically frozen and revived to take your place?

LOL Thunder. "user sweetjimmy" thats classic.
I think you've watched Tron one too many times. And calling people who post pictures of other people urinating on each other businessmen is even funnier.

If think you should sign your posts with "end transmission"

Well, since the original discussion was sponsors with pop-ups, I thought I'd throw in something that Adult Mega Cash does, a sponsor I use.

They currently have 3 different ways you can trade traffic, one is a link that gives you several pop-ups, yet they return different traffic to you.

Another is one that pops only one pop-up that lists all their sites,

The third option is one that has no pop-ups at all.

Maybe I lose sales, but I link to them using either the no pop-ups or the 1 consol tour. I like the fact they have that option. Do any of the sponsors do that?

Adult Mega Cash

In case you are wondering.

And I'm still new, but I hate pop-ups too. I think I have one dirty site that is on my link list that has one, but none of my other sites do.

My .02 worth.

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~Every time I call myself Webmistress, I feel I should be in spike heels with a whip~

Greatest ADULT WEB HOSTING on The NET !
Free Erotic Fantasy Best Quality TGP's

Exxotica, well said.


I think free porn should be used to lure people into paying.


I agree with Hun when he says if there were no free porn, then search engine traffic would be the only thing that paysites use to get customers.

Hun, I also agree that the sponsor shouldn't trap you with exit consoles. I also think the sponsor site themselves should offer some sample free pictures, most don't offer any content so you have no idea what's inside.

Hun, what I don't get is what is your definition of a hiqh quality picture?
I mean how more high quality can these photos get?
I already have to scroll to see the full image.
I'm using a 1024x768 resolution and the free pics are huge.
I don't understand how higher the quality of photos can get?
Are the pay sites supposed to offer 500K images?

Peace,
Pete Dogg

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My final word.

I hate popup nightmares but think about this.

You have 3 pay sites with varying teen content, a visitor goes to site 1 and leaves because he don't like what he sees. Ok you could put links to your other sites but he may not see them. Place your other 2 sites on a very small popup sitting in the backgroung and hey presto he makes a visit to site number 2.

I do exactly this in a 200x200 pop up - why 200x200 , because the annoyance factor is low and the curiosity factor high.

I have tried bigger windows and they don't work half as well. Also, you only get the window once, a cookie takes care of repeats.

This thread is very interesting and I had to post my opinion about it.

First of all let me say that I think TheHun has the right to do whatever he wants on his site, he wants to ban a freehost or a sponsor, that is his business and everyone should respect that. Even though I respect TheHun's choice to band ARS, I however strongly disagree with his motivations.

TheHun claims that ARS and other sites using chain consoles are giving the adult industry a bad name and that consoles are killing the economy and so on. In my opinion, this is not true. The reason why ARS, cyber erotica, cen and most big sponsors added exit consoles is because they had to in order to generate enough sales to keep the business rolling. Convertion rates and recurrings have been dropping and the huge competition is one of the reason why as TheHun says, but the main is reason is , sorry to say that, but TheHun himself.

His site is freeloaders heaven, hardcore, mature, teen,lesbian, voyeur, amateur, black, inter -race and even bestiality (sad but true) pics and videos are available for free! Very easy to navigate and a huge archive is available of everything freeloaders have always wanted which in my personal opinion makes it the hugest, cleanest and most nuisable adulte site in the porn business. In some some way , TheHun is the Napster of porn.

TheHun claims that his site is not as good as a paysite and that he's basically just a link site helping others. These 2 statements are false. There are more pics and videos on his site than needed to satisfy a big majority of free loaders on the net. And on top of that there is barely advertising on TheHun or in the galleries he lists. Most banners used on the site and on galleries are old regular banners which pull the less. Even pay sites are almost harder to surf than the hun, just sign up for a big pay site and you will see a directory of links to content packages with ads and stuff.

Link sites are good for the industry, but TheHun isnt one. If you look at Tommys-Bookmarks, you will see big ads, blind links in a good manner, enter pages with ads, top referer lists, link trades and free previews on many sites...This is perfect and thats how it should be. PersianKitty is also an awesome site and so many others. There is a very big difference between a link site and TheHun.

Free porn is good and will always be there? I agree with TheHun on this but again there is a big difference between offering a sample and giving away everything for free without any hassle. Everyone knows the company Tide which sells products to wash your clothes?. They sent me a sample of their product by mail a long time ago, my girfriend tried it and liked it. We remember the brand name and it was good avertising. But lets say Tide would start to send me a sample every week forever? Do you think I would actually pay for the product? Or maybe pay for another laundry detergent jsut because it might be a littlle better? And how others companies could sell their laundry detergent if Tide gives everything away for free? Sure Tide would get a huge exposure, lots of friends etc..and would probably still be able to make money with a the publicity you know. But wouldnt it affect the whole industry of laundry detergents? You dont think its a good example? Then how about someone open a sex shop with a free section that offers everything people need, but with also a pay section with some more cool stuff, sure some people would pay but most people would just get their freebies(actually everything being sold in other sex shops) and leave. The whole sex shop industry would be in big trouble dont you think? What I'm trying to say here is that the "new" industry(internet) and the old industry are basically the same. If you want to sell something don't give it for free. The only big difference is that on the net, you can give people free stuff without having to actually pay for this stuff. Tide or sex shops cant do that. No wonder why NASDAQ shows such low numbers. Everyone on the net is giving everything for free causing real companies to go bankcrupcy because they cant sell anything anymore.

The fact is that the more porn the surfers will get, the more greedy they will get, the more they will get used to the fact that they dont really have to pay to get what they want. This is business logic and I dont have anything personal against anyone.

Sorry about the long post Apparently I had a lot to say about this




[This message has been edited by nickd (edited 04-01-2001).]

Amen "nickd"

As a surfer or webmaster:
-I hate never ending consoles!
-I hate too many consoles!
-I hate the console that auto enlarge to fit the window size even it's only one console!
-One console with no other console is perfect. Two consoles and one of it should be shocked is good! Case is.. if surfers visit a mature site then when they close the page one console whose links point to rotten.com shown up they will be shocked and start to give more attention to another consoles.


I don't like to push someone to follow my way! If they like the way they are doing now with their own site, fine! Debate is good but when it comes to push webmaster what to do with their own site that's unacceptable! If you agree with the hun then stick with his rules but if you don't... just keep away, as simple as that!!!

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http://offshoreclicks.com
NO CONVERSION RATIO EVER!
3 cents/raw click
0.35 cents/impression or
0.1 cents/impression with 100% traffic back!
Realtime stats

I think the problem for a lot of people is that they think too short term, I have been involved in our industry for a few years, have seen many sites come and go, have been involved in fascinating projects and have built a lot of galleries, I know the value of thehun, have always profited greately from his traffic and have never complained about the bandwidth because it is very worth it if you know how to design a good gallery(one that makes money).
So my advice is to think long term and customer satisfacion has to be a priority in that context. that's my two cents, not many of you know me cause I keep to myself unless I feel strongly about something or I have to hear myself

What's worse an entry console or an exit console?



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Daily Naked

Free Auto Updating Top Referrer Lists

NickD. Then please explain to me the 75,000 banner clicks a day and the recurring banner advertisers we get every month? Sorry, but I have the numbers to show you you're wrong. The post right above this another example.

It's not as if my site took away any business from the paysites. Sure, I have a big chunk of the market come to my page, but how many of those people would sign up for a paysite? Most are afraid to even grab their card 'cause it is sometimes impossible to cancel memberships. And some don't want to pay 'cause of the credit card bill they get which is highly reviewed by the Mrs. Others simply can't spare 30 bucks a month to view porn.

And how is a paysite better? Niche for one. I link to various content. Low quality pics, high quality pics, but 300 picture series that I've seen in paysites have never appeared on my site. I just don't get them submitted.

As for Jimmy, please don't tell me how to run my site. YOU are the one trying to dictate someone what to do here, not me. I ONLY ban people from MY site. It's THE HUN's yellow pages, and THE HUN is me. Simple as that. I make the rules for my page, not you. I don't set a lot of rules, but I do refuse to list some advertising tactics out there. If people don't agree with that they don't have to. They are not forced to submit to me. Neither am I a public service that everybody should be able to use. I run a business and I run that business my way. And it has been very successful as well. Calling someone a dictator just 'cause he made rules ON HIS OWN SITE is just plain stupid and ignorant.

But again, BTW, this thread was about advertising tactics, not about how bad I am for this industry. Consoles, entrapment, blind links, nothing seems worse enough to show people some adds...

Granted, consoles make sales. Someone here said 30% of his sales came from consoles. That means they do make money. But think one step further. What would create a more satisfied customer? One that signed up out of frustration or one that signed up 'cause he liked the site and 'cause it offered the niche he's interested in? EVERY paysite knows that the most money is in the recurred billing. How do you do that? Give people what they want. I'm friends with the people from Club Seventeen, a big paysite. They make 70% of their money on recurring members. So even paysites know it's pleasing people and giving them what they want what will make 'em stick in the end. Club Seventeen is niche. They give away a lot of content, but on their site it's nicely put together. Stories with it, a preview of what's going to be on next month, movies, life chat, no adds, big series. All with one central topic: teens. Good luck finding the same quality on ANY free link-site, even if you visit them all...

But now even I go off subject again. Bottom line is that in my eyes honest advertising will give people more recurring traffic and will keep a surfer clicking banners. And that's still how money is made on the web.

Who let the dogs out? Woof..Woof...Woof!

You didn't answer my question, is that you or your cryogenically frozen clone?