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sortie

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Why am I the only one who thinks messing in the middle east...

07-11-2008, 04:30 PM

Why am I the only one who thinks messing in the middle east is making the price of gas high?

I'm sure somebody else must think that, but I never hear anyone say it.

I mean, Iraq oil production is messed up and Bush threatening to blow up Iran (the 4th largest oil producer in the world) has got to be the biggest problem with oil prices.

I don't really hear any other reason that seems to make more sense.

I'm open; tell me what is making gas so high if that's not it.
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mozadek

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07-11-2008, 04:41 PM

Inflation and the wear dollar is the cause for high oil. Oil is traded in dollars and OPEC wants to get their money's worth. Instead of using another currency they just raise the price for a barrel of oil to make up the difference.
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07-11-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by mozadek

Inflation and the wear dollar is the cause for high oil. Oil is traded in dollars and OPEC wants to get their money's worth. Instead of using another currency they just raise the price for a barrel of oil to make up the difference.

Yeah, oil is traded in dollars; so if we fuck with the oil countries, like we are, then they
can devalue the dollar by not accepting it for oil.

The arabs want the US out of the middle east and have started using their economic power under the table to weaken the dollar.

Venezuela stop taking dollars for oil after Hugo Chavez got tired of Bush.

It's like looking at the end of the problem and ignoring the start of the problem when people say the dollar sinking is the cause of high prices.

If we get out of the middle east these countries will stop fucking with the dollar.

Don't foget that china opposed the Iraq war and they hold billions in US bonds and the fear that china would cash those bonds in also drove the dollar down.
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07-11-2008, 04:52 PM

blame democrats. "we cant drill our way out of this problem." is just code for "lets keep oil prices artificially high to keep alternative energy more competitive." i wonder how many of those blocking domestic drilling also own alternative energy stocks.... interesting

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07-11-2008, 04:52 PM

While the situation in the middle east and the weak american dollar both have some bearing, it's primarily due to the energy deregulation that the deceased Ken Lay and his republican friends snuck into a huge bill as a rider in Nov-Dec 2000 that's brought about the speculation craze.. It's that craze that's the cause a very large percentage of the oil prices. The US senate knew about this about 2 years ago and the house about a year ago and yet they're doing nothing about it.
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07-11-2008, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by bringer

blame democrats. "we cant drill our way out of this problem." is just code for "lets keep oil prices artificially high to keep alternative energy more competitive." i wonder how many of those blocking domestic drilling also own alternative energy stocks.... interesting

Ahh come on!

We could drill up a billion barrels of oil tonight and it wouldn't make a dent in the price of gas because there are not enough refineries to make the gas fast enough to drive the
price down.
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07-11-2008, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by bringer

blame democrats. "we cant drill our way out of this problem." is just code for "lets keep oil prices artificially high to keep alternative energy more competitive." i wonder how many of those blocking domestic drilling also own alternative energy stocks.... interesting
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07-11-2008, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by sortie

Ahh come on!

We could drill up a billion barrels of oil tonight and it wouldn't make a dent in the price of gas because there are not enough refineries to make the gas fast enough to drive the
price down.

so consumption is DOWN in the US but refining capacity is the cause of high prices? or is it OPEC keeping production low while demand for oil is increasing worldwide? i know theres more to it then just drilling but if we tapped the resources off the coast of florida which china is already going after we wouldnt have to depend on OPEC who is constantly fucking us over.

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awesome! am i a racist too?

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07-11-2008, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by bringer

so consumption is DOWN in the US but refining capacity is the cause of high prices? or is it OPEC keeping production low while demand for oil is increasing worldwide? i know theres more to it then just drilling but if we tapped the resources off the coast of florida which china is already going after we wouldnt have to depend on OPEC who is constantly fucking us over.

The oil companies and OPEC have come out and said that there is no supply issue.. OPEC has said they have offered to increase production but there were no takers at the time (although some believe that was bogus as they don't think OPEC was able to produce more Light Sweet which is what everyone needs, but instead the other type of oil).. The oil companies have said that more oil would reduce the prices a little but it would soon dissappear again because the main causes of the prices are the weak american dollar and the rampant speculation. Analists all over the place have said that the major portion in the increased oil prices is due to speculation. The airlines have written that letter now also stating that the energy needs to be regulared again in order to stop the crazed speculation...

Bottom line, the current issue has nothing to do with supply or refinaries.. The weak american dollar is a part of it but the major issue is the energy speculation markets. These are the same markets that brought about all the problems with electricty via Enron years ago.

So drilling for more oil, alternate energy sources.. Those things are all about keeping pace with long term supply and demand... But none of that is going to change a damn thing until they fix the speculation issue.

Originally posted by bringer

awesome! am i a racist too?

Don't know.. are you?
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07-11-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by bringer

so consumption is DOWN in the US but refining capacity is the cause of high prices? or is it OPEC keeping production low while demand for oil is increasing worldwide? i know theres more to it then just drilling but if we tapped the resources off the coast of florida which china is already going after we wouldnt have to depend on OPEC who is constantly fucking us over.

awesome! am i a racist too?

Do you think that OPEC is constanly fucking us over because we are constantly bombing their relatives?

I mean, maybe it's all about the money and they don't care if we kill them as long as they get the cash.

There is no shortage of oil. Everybody that is trading is dollars is just being forced to pay more.
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07-11-2008, 05:24 PM

Oil companies.

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#12

07-11-2008, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by sortie

Yeah, oil is traded in dollars; so if we fuck with the oil countries, like we are, then they
can devalue the dollar by not accepting it for oil.

The arabs want the US out of the middle east and have started using their economic power under the table to weaken the dollar.

Venezuela stop taking dollars for oil after Hugo Chavez got tired of Bush.

It's like looking at the end of the problem and ignoring the start of the problem when people say the dollar sinking is the cause of high prices.

If we get out of the middle east these countries will stop fucking with the dollar.

Don't foget that china opposed the Iraq war and they hold billions in US bonds and the fear that china would cash those bonds in also drove the dollar down.

it is simple, supply and demand of the dollar. there is more supply than there is demand.
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#13

07-11-2008, 06:35 PM

The talk of possible military strikes or conflict with Iran and other arab countries around the straits of Hormuz is definitely making the markets/speculators nervous and effecting the oil price per barrel. So yes, to answer your question it is effecting the price per barrel.
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07-11-2008, 07:26 PM

There are a lot of reasons why oil is high.

In no specific order.
1. There is an increased demand worldwide. with more people wanting to buy it (china and india among others) it causes the price to rise.

2. speculators. I read today that about 10 years ago only about 10% of oil was bought and sold on the commodities market by speculators. Deregulation of that has changed that and today they think the actual number is around 60% and profit margins for those speculating can be very high they estimate if oil is $115 a barrel about $50-$60 of that price goes into a hedge fund profit.

3. The weak dollar. The more the value of our money drops the more we have to pay for oil.

4. We use a lot. We have built our society around the car and we have no choice but to use it so useage continues to rise even as prices rise.

5. Refining. We can't seem to refine the oil fast enough to meet fuel demands. I'm not sure why that is, but that is what the oil companies say.

6. We pay whatever they want us to pay. They can charge us $500 a barrel and we would pay it because we have no choice.

7. Any kind of unrest in the middle east will cause prices to rise because it means there could be a danger to the supply.

Drilling today would mean it would be 6-10 years before you would see a drop of that oil in our gas tanks. If we don't change our way of thinking we will forever be stuck on oil. We have a chance right now to force ourselves to get off the addiction and move in a way that makes us less dependent on others.
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07-11-2008, 07:46 PM

Well I think your right!

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07-11-2008, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by kane

5. Refining. We can't seem to refine the oil fast enough to meet fuel demands. I'm not sure why that is, but that is what the oil companies say.

Because in the late 90s the oil companies shut down a lot of refinaries and also "forced" out some smaller companies so that they could gain more profit.. Not that they could get a profit, but that they could earn MORE profit.. Now they say they're running at or close to maximum and want government handouts to build some new ones...
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07-12-2008, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by kane

There are a lot of reasons why oil is high.

In no specific order.
1. There is an increased demand worldwide. with more people wanting to buy it (china and india among others) it causes the price to rise.

2. speculators. I read today that about 10 years ago only about 10% of oil was bought and sold on the commodities market by speculators. Deregulation of that has changed that and today they think the actual number is around 60% and profit margins for those speculating can be very high they estimate if oil is $115 a barrel about $50-$60 of that price goes into a hedge fund profit.

3. The weak dollar. The more the value of our money drops the more we have to pay for oil.

4. We use a lot. We have built our society around the car and we have no choice but to use it so useage continues to rise even as prices rise.

5. Refining. We can't seem to refine the oil fast enough to meet fuel demands. I'm not sure why that is, but that is what the oil companies say.

6. We pay whatever they want us to pay. They can charge us $500 a barrel and we would pay it because we have no choice.

7. Any kind of unrest in the middle east will cause prices to rise because it means there could be a danger to the supply.

Drilling today would mean it would be 6-10 years before you would see a drop of that oil in our gas tanks. If we don't change our way of thinking we will forever be stuck on oil. We have a chance right now to force ourselves to get off the addiction and move in a way that makes us less dependent on others.

I like how you put middle east in number 7 because that's exactly the way I believe our government is selling the story.

Put 1-6 in the spot light to keep people from focusing on the Iraq war and being more against the war. But it's the war. The war is what caused 1-6.

If you already fell for the WMD line then consider that you might be falling for another line about oil.

And before someone ask how does Iraq war make demand in China and India higher??
Here's the answer:

Iraq = The Bank;
Oil = The money;

If someone is trying to blow up the bank wouldn't you rush to get as much money out as possible before the bank finally collapsed!

Other countries in the world want to make sure they have suffcient stock piles of oil
in case we completely destroy the place and there is no more oil comming out.
Buy one barrel to use and one barrel to save = double the demand.

Bottom line; the price of oil is high because everybody want's all they can possibly get now before we ruin the place to the point that no one can get any at all.
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07-12-2008, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by sortie

I like how you put middle east in number 7 because that's exactly the way I believe our government is selling the story.

Put 1-6 in the spot light to keep people from focusing on the Iraq war and being more against the war. But it's the war. The war is what caused 1-6.

If you already fell for the WMD line then consider that you might be falling for another line about oil.

And before someone ask how does Iraq war make demand in China and India higher??
Here's the answer:

Iraq = The Bank;
Oil = The money;

If someone is trying to blow up the bank wouldn't you rush to get as much money out as possible before the bank finally collapsed!

Other countries in the world want to make sure they have suffcient stock piles of oil
in case we completely destroy the place and there is no more oil comming out.
Buy one barrel to use and one barrel to save = double the demand.

Bottom line; the price of oil is high because everybody want's all they can possibly get now before we ruin the place to the point that no one can get any at all.

If you read he first two lines of my post you will see I wrote, "There are a lot of reasons why oil is high.

In no specific order."

That means I listed my thoughts in specific order, it doesn't mean I think unrest in the middle east is the least important cause.
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07-12-2008, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by sortie

I like how you put middle east in number 7 because that's exactly the way I believe our government is selling the story.

Put 1-6 in the spot light to keep people from focusing on the Iraq war and being more against the war. But it's the war. The war is what caused 1-6.

If you already fell for the WMD line then consider that you might be falling for another line about oil.

And before someone ask how does Iraq war make demand in China and India higher??
Here's the answer:

Iraq = The Bank;
Oil = The money;

If someone is trying to blow up the bank wouldn't you rush to get as much money out as possible before the bank finally collapsed!

Other countries in the world want to make sure they have suffcient stock piles of oil
in case we completely destroy the place and there is no more oil comming out.
Buy one barrel to use and one barrel to save = double the demand.

Bottom line; the price of oil is high because everybody want's all they can possibly get now before we ruin the place to the point that no one can get any at all.

Oh and one other thing. Sure the war in Iraq is making people want to stockpile oil, but China and India have the two fastest growing economies in the world. When your economy is growing it needs power (energy) and most companies and governments use oils as their primary source of energy.
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sortie

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07-12-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by kane

Oh and one other thing. Sure the war in Iraq is making people want to stockpile oil, but China and India have the two fastest growing economies in the world. When your economy is growing it needs power (energy) and most companies and governments use oils as their primary source of energy.

What you're are sayin about China and India growing is true, but they were both growing at the same rate 4 years ago when gas was $1.45 a gallon.
If their growth is to blame then their economies must have increased by 300% in the last 4
years...................not.
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07-12-2008, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by sortie

What you're are sayin about China and India growing is true, but they were both growing at the same rate 4 years ago when gas was $1.45 a gallon.
If their growth is to blame then their economies must have increased by 300% in the last 4
years...................not.

Their growth is not the only factor. just one of many.
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07-12-2008, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by kane

Their growth is not the only factor. just one of many.

Conclusion:

You are smart enough to digest the sophisticated plan we had to attack Iraq and still
keep the oil flowing. You recognized the intelligence that went into the planning and
this impressed you even more with the plan. You being intelligent yourself decided that going
with an intelligent plan is the smart thing to do.

But then there is Joe Blow dumb mofo. He couldn't digest all that sophisticated stuff.
So he never understood the plan, not even a little bit. After he heard this magnificent
plan, he was ROFLAO and exclaimed "Yo Dude, we can't blow the oil up and then still get it".

Moral of the story is that dumb mofos will often rise to the top of the world simply because they were never smart enough to understand sophisticated bullshit that would have stopped them in their tracks.

Kind of like illegal tube sites. The people who built them were too stupid to realize they
were breaking copyright laws, and that's why they're at the top
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07-12-2008, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by sortie

Conclusion:

You are smart enough to digest the sophisticated plan we had to attack Iraq and still
keep the oil flowing. You recognized the intelligence that went into the planning and
this impressed you even more with the plan. You being intelligent yourself decided that going
with an intelligent plan is the smart thing to do.

But then there is Joe Blow dumb mofo. He couldn't digest all that sophisticated stuff.
So he never understood the plan, not even a little bit. After he heard this magnificent
plan, he was ROFLAO and exclaimed "Yo Dude, we can't blow the oil up and then still get it".

Moral of the story is that dumb mofos will often rise to the top of the world simply because they were never smart enough to understand sophisticated bullshit that would have stopped them in their tracks.

Kind of like illegal tube sites. The people who built them were too stupid to realize they
were breaking copyright laws, and that's why they're at the top

What's the old saying? "Ignorance is bliss." There are two quotes that come to mind that really fit this post. One was said to me by a guy that had owned and sold several businesses and he told me, "When my first business was a success a lot of it was because I was too stupid to be afraid that it might fail." The other is from Bill Gates when he says that, "Success is a terrible teacher because it makes smart people believe they can't lose."

I think much the same can be said for the oil situation. There are a lot of factors that go into why it is so expensive. It is not going down in price any time in the near future. It is easy to to just blame one group or one company or one leader, but there are many factors involved. For example: I think one of the main reasons we invaded Iraq was to get close to their oil. We install a US friendly government there and they sell us oil on the cheap. I think the idea is simple. The problem was they never had the foresight to see that something could go wrong with the plan and then what to do if that happened and here we are today. They were either too stupid to realize the radical Muslims would not just lie down for them or they chose to ignore that reality and just hope that it didn't happen.
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07-12-2008, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by kane

What's the old saying? "Ignorance is bliss." There are two quotes that come to mind that really fit this post. One was said to me by a guy that had owned and sold several businesses and he told me, "When my first business was a success a lot of it was because I was too stupid to be afraid that it might fail." The other is from Bill Gates when he says that, "Success is a terrible teacher because it makes smart people believe they can't lose."

I think much the same can be said for the oil situation. There are a lot of factors that go into why it is so expensive. It is not going down in price any time in the near future. It is easy to to just blame one group or one company or one leader, but there are many factors involved. For example: I think one of the main reasons we invaded Iraq was to get close to their oil. We install a US friendly government there and they sell us oil on the cheap. I think the idea is simple. The problem was they never had the foresight to see that something could go wrong with the plan and then what to do if that happened and here we are today. They were either too stupid to realize the radical Muslims would not just lie down for them or they chose to ignore that reality and just hope that it didn't happen.

Being too smart is what I saw from the begining.
I always felt like there was too much confidence base on "we are too smart to mess up".

Rumsfeld was the primary intellectual idiot. Assuming his brain was so big that nothing the Iraqis could think of could ever touch his plans.
And behold how the Iraqis came up with totaly stupid plans(just as Rummy figured) like blowing themselves up and attacking themselves. So far these stupid plans have been
very effective at preventing the US from claiming victory.

I leared this the hard way playing a game show.
I had to match answers with my partner and I chose the obvious logical answer everytime while my partner chose the most illogical answer possible so we missed
100% of the questions. If I had been a dumb ass and just selected blindly them I'm sure we would have matched a couple and I would have walked away with 10 grand.
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#25

07-12-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Tempest

The oil companies and OPEC have come out and said that there is no supply issue.. OPEC has said they have offered to increase production but there were no takers at the time (although some believe that was bogus as they don't think OPEC was able to produce more Light Sweet which is what everyone needs, but instead the other type of oil).. The oil companies have said that more oil would reduce the prices a little but it would soon dissappear again because the main causes of the prices are the weak american dollar and the rampant speculation. Analists all over the place have said that the major portion in the increased oil prices is due to speculation. The airlines have written that letter now also stating that the energy needs to be regulared again in order to stop the crazed speculation...

Bottom line, the current issue has nothing to do with supply or refinaries.. The weak american dollar is a part of it but the major issue is the energy speculation markets. These are the same markets that brought about all the problems with electricty via Enron years ago.

So drilling for more oil, alternate energy sources.. Those things are all about keeping pace with long term supply and demand... But none of that is going to change a damn thing until they fix the speculation issue.

Don't know.. are you?

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