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FightThisPatent

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#1

Are paysite tours dead?

07-08-2008, 05:21 PM

Opening up this debate question since I have been participating in another thread about flash video and downloadable content that brought up this idea.

Are paysite tours dead?

Meaning... with the way that tube sites work, FHG, etc...is the standard approach to tours of showing a couple of pages (either linked sequentially or via buttons) not converting as well as they used to?

My answer is that "tours" need to be more interactive. Use elements of tube sites and FHG to incorporate into the new "tour".

Give surfers some interaction, let them see video clips, pics, etc. beyond the typical layout that usually requires them to scroll down and see almost standard template layout of pic1, pic2, pic3, video clip.. next.

The effectiveness of "the tour" is vital for both the paysite and owners to make money in this competitive space, before - just with other paysites, now - with tube-type sites.

Fight the long live the tours!

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dropped9

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#2

07-08-2008, 05:23 PM

Tours arent dead... Just the way the content is presented constantly changes...

Every tour I have done over the past month has been a long style tour, with flash elements and big hf pics.
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#3

07-08-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

My answer is that "tours" need to be more interactive. Use elements of tube sites and FHG to incorporate into the new "tour".

Agreed. Which is why we are creating tour/join combos, with tube-style teaser clips as part of the mix - and all in the surfers native language - 37 in total incuding Arabic, Chinese etc. - see eg www.globalpartyhardcore.com - converts nicely

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seeric

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#4

07-08-2008, 05:34 PM

Nah. Just like the first TGPS were going to kill paysites, tubes will also not. The economy is a far larger factor in the turn of events lately.

Fight the don't believe the hype!

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#5

07-08-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

My answer is that "tours" need to be more interactive. Use elements of tube sites and FHG to incorporate into the new "tour".

The effectiveness of "the tour" is vital for both the paysite and owners to make money in this competitive space, before - just with other paysites, now - with tube-type sites.

Fight the long live the tours!

you mean like this one?

www.shanesworldonline.com

or this one

http://www.smashxxx.com/index.shtml?Pg=trailers#MORE

Last edited by seeric; 07-08-2008, 05:37 PM.
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harvey

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#6

07-08-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

Opening up this debate question since I have been participating in another thread about flash video and downloadable content that brought up this idea.

Are paysite tours dead?

Meaning... with the way that tube sites work, FHG, etc...is the standard approach to tours of showing a couple of pages (either linked sequentially or via buttons) not converting as well as they used to?

My answer is that "tours" need to be more interactive. Use elements of tube sites and FHG to incorporate into the new "tour".

Give surfers some interaction, let them see video clips, pics, etc. beyond the typical layout that usually requires them to scroll down and see almost standard template layout of pic1, pic2, pic3, video clip.. next.

The effectiveness of "the tour" is vital for both the paysite and owners to make money in this competitive space, before - just with other paysites, now - with tube-type sites.

Fight the long live the tours!

you're right. Although the idea of interactivity in tours is as old as interactivity itself ;) I'm shocked at how few sites use it. I even did tours with fake interactivity and they convert way better than any other tour out there, period.

anyway, as we say in my country, most program owners are "chorizo makers" who put all the meat (content, scripts, whatever) in the mix and produce one chorizo after the other. It tastes good at first, but eventually you'll get tired of chorizo. And to make it worse, with this skewed state of things you have the "chorizo maker copycats". Most of them will fail miserably, of course.

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#7

07-08-2008, 05:41 PM

See: www.filthfreaks.com

It is our best selling site right now.

http://donttellmehowtoruinmylife.com/ - http://www.jmdigitalmarketing.com/my...s-and-reviews/ - http://www.wouldyouhitit.org - http://shinyobjectreviews.com/
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#8

07-08-2008, 05:43 PM

My paysite is bringing in sales very steadily so I have to say that tour pages are NOT dead. I think it boils down to what type of content you have on your tour pages rather than tour pages alone. If surfers like what they see on your tour pages then they will sign up. Surfers don't sign up with a site for it's design but rather for it's content.

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FightThisPatent

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#9

07-08-2008, 05:43 PM

Designers... since you work with multiple clients.. what are you suggesting to clients for tours?

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#10

07-08-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by A1R3K

or this one

http://www.smashxxx.com/index.shtml?Pg=trailers#MORE

this is a good example of a non-linear tour.. lots of choice for surfer to click and spend time.

Fight the eyeball time!

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#11

07-08-2008, 05:45 PM

I have a few new ideas I want to implement following exactly the points you are making. Not saying them here Ill wait till a week or two after I launch the ideas to have them taken.
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#12

07-08-2008, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by rayadp05

My paysite is bringing in sales very steadily so I have to say that tour pages are NOT dead.

let me clarify..

what i mean tour, is in the traditional implementation ...

click to view tour

quickly scroll down long page, clicking on play button for a preview

quickly scrolling down to bottom to see the "more" button for next tour page

scrolling down another long page.

not seeing enough to get horn, leave site

There is always the need for a "tour"... its the preview to the site.. what I am referring to is essentially the linear flow of traditional tours.

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FightThisPatent

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#13

07-08-2008, 05:53 PM

For those that have google analytics or similar stats .... take note of the surfers overall average time spent on your site.

what's your average?

This would be a good indicator if they are watching your video clips.

If you have alot of clips on the tour, that as they are watching it, the "time spent on site" counter is still ticking.

The correlation between high average times spent on site with sales is a pretty interesting statistic.. but one that each program owner would have to assess on their own.

I believe the equation (over simplified) is longer time spent on site (which means more interactivity / more preview content) = higher conversions.

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harvey

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#14

07-08-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by rayadp05

Surfers don't sign up with a site for it's design but rather for it's content.

I beg to differ

all examples of 2 sites I did working with ultra seen content mostly available for free in the web. Find me 1 (one) site with exclusive converting at those ratios. Only one, not 2, 3 or 10. I'll eat my hat on webcam if you do.
This being said, there has to be a balance between content and design know-how (which means not always will look beautiful, classy or amateurish. To each its own) but if you have non-exclusive over saturated content, you better find someone who knows what he/she is doing. Having good content gives you the freedom of using any kind of design, nothing else. Well, it will cost you a lot more, of course, unless your niche is so unique it's better to shoot it yourself (as I did with some of my old paysites)

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#15

07-08-2008, 06:04 PM

Well, everything on my site is exclusive content. I generally bring in about 25 sales per day but yes, I agree, the content and the design do kinda go hand in hand but my only point was that the surfer is signing up for the content and not so much for the design. Sure, a good desgin can help you but if you have a great design and shitty content then don't expect many signups.

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FightThisPatent

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#16

07-08-2008, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by A1R3K

you mean like this one?

www.shanesworldonline.com

the rollovers from still photo to videos is pretty slick!

once you click into one of the sections, there is only one video sample. the surfer would have to go back (ie. navigation) to the front page to click on the other areas to watch the 1 video clip.. and get horny enough to want to join.

i would say this is still the standard tour approach.

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#17

07-08-2008, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by rayadp05

My paysite is bringing in sales very steadily so I have to say that tour pages are NOT dead. I think it boils down to what type of content you have on your tour pages rather than tour pages alone. If surfers like what they see on your tour pages then they will sign up. Surfers don't sign up with a site for it's design but rather for it's content.

Actually you are correct and its obvious you actually amek sales unlike some of the idiots on this board. Tour page ratios havent changed a bit in 5 1/2 years with multiple sites. Now the ratios for the cookie cutter non exclusive photoshop stuff will continue to suffer because everyone and their mom is pushing it. Tour pages will always work the best because they dont give away the house and there is PLENTY of traffic to go around. The tubes have had zero effent on my sales or ratios. Fuck em.

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FightThisPatent

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#18

07-08-2008, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by rayadp05

Sure, a good desgin can help you but if you have a great design and shitty content then don't expect many signups.

actually, that approach worked well for many big sites, but that was back a few years, and playing the numbers game of having crazy amount of traffic and hoping the surfer forgets to cancel and keeps rebilling while the forget, etc, etc.

These days, surfers are getting a lot more educated.

"3 day trials" I think are a good idea in general, but so many allow full access to the entire site for those 3 days, so the mentality is suck it dry and cancel.

Affiliates who are promoting sites that don't pay on a free 3 day join are getting screwed as the conversion ratios from 3 day trial to paid are pretty sad.

I have seen some programs go with a limited trial.. where you get some access but not all.. I think that's a great idea...

You can create a "trial" member area.. that the CC signup system manages.. where you load up what they can see and update it. then when they want to join for the full membership, the CC signup system then sets them up on the "full" membership area.

I have seen some people sell membership fees to what is essentially a collection of FHG gathered from all the paysites.... or was that the AVS model ;)

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#19

07-08-2008, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by A1R3K

you mean like this one?

www.shanesworldonline.com

or this one

http://www.smashxxx.com/index.shtml?Pg=trailers#MORE

I love the SWO...it's the most innovative tour out there.

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#20

07-08-2008, 08:33 PM

orgy cash are prbably the only sites still give me an hard on each time im working on a galleries and si the only site i will pay to get a member access.

why? they has just too much content to tube it or torrent it
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#21

07-08-2008, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by TTiger

orgy cash are prbably the only sites still give me an hard on each time im working on a galleries and si the only site i will pay to get a member access.

why? they has just too much content to tube it or torrent it

More fuck for their buck means more cash for your stash!

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#22

07-08-2008, 08:48 PM

thanks jay and brandon for the comments. the shanesworld version of that smash tour you saw is in final development and will be added to the program shortly.

i know what brandon is getting at.

regardless of navigation, the SWO tour has (9), count em nine, 2.5 minute trailers that you can't beat off to if you had 12 hands. thats 19.3 minutes of free content on a tour.

those 19 minutes of trailers are closing sales left and right.

this is a mega site all in one package deal.

there isn't anything like shane's world online so its not even sensible to put it in a category with other tours.

this is a hybrid animal. it takes elements of tubes (i.e. embeddable vids that carry the viral affiliate code, and 2.5 minute videos) and morphs it with an easy to navigate lifestyle experience. shane's world is an attitude and a way of living and just having fun, not a paysite.
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#23

07-08-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by harvey

I beg to differ

all examples of 2 sites I did working with ultra seen content mostly available for free in the web. Find me 1 (one) site with exclusive converting at those ratios. Only one, not 2, 3 or 10. I'll eat my hat on webcam if you do.
This being said, there has to be a balance between content and design know-how (which means not always will look beautiful, classy or amateurish. To each its own) but if you have non-exclusive over saturated content, you better find someone who knows what he/she is doing. Having good content gives you the freedom of using any kind of design, nothing else. Well, it will cost you a lot more, of course, unless your niche is so unique it's better to shoot it yourself (as I did with some of my old paysites)

One site converting at 1:247 with in a range or 2500 (sponsor counted) uniques?
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#24

07-08-2008, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

Designers... since you work with multiple clients.. what are you suggesting to clients for tours?

Fight the customer is always right!

Few clients are willing or prepared to take suggestion...

some do... and usually they try multiple methods... theirs, mine and our collaborations...

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#25

07-08-2008, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by datatank

One site converting at 1:247 with in a range or 2500 (sponsor counted) uniques?

there are more sites in there, including the one you see blurred and it's 1:105 and 1:54 ;)

Last edited by harvey; 07-08-2008, 09:31 PM.

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#26

07-08-2008, 09:40 PM

harvey, can we do something?
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harvey

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#27

07-08-2008, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by A1R3K

harvey, can we do something?

like cyber? some wild sex? if so I require romance!

j/k of course we can, I already told you a couple weeks ago I'm going out now since it's really late for me and I still need to finish some work, but let's chat tomorrow

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#28

07-08-2008, 09:44 PM

Harvey is Noob!

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#29

07-08-2008, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by harvey

like cyber? some wild sex? if so I require romance!

j/k of course we can, I already told you a couple weeks ago I'm going out now since it's really late for me and I still need to finish some work, but let's chat tomorrow

thanks.

cyber is extra.

hehe.

i will get yah tomorrow, have fun.
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#30

07-08-2008, 10:14 PM

I really don't see what is so great about those stats. I mean, with the website that I run (which is ONE paysite)...I "generally" receive approximately 25 sales per day but there are days when I receive nearly 40 signups per day. Not trying to brag because there are websites out there that are doing much better than mine. Then again, there are many that are not. No big thing to me...as long as I am making my money and generating good traffic.

Adult webmasters generate different results with their websites. Some better than others, some worse than others and it's no big thing really. That's the way the world of business works.

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#31

07-09-2008, 01:10 PM

Tours are definately not dead. I put up a new tour on www.KieraSky.com and its converting 5X better.

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