It is time: I'm buying a Ferrari

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  • Karomeesis
    Registered User
    • Apr 2006
    • 41

    #51
    congradulations

    Although for only 3400 a month you could pick up what is based on a lemans prototype the Carrera GT and doesn't need to go to the garage every 100 miles.

    Comment

    • marketsmart
      HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER
      • Dec 2004
      • 20419

      #52
      Originally posted by Elli
      This one makes me mushy inside

      360 spider.... thats the one to get...

      Comment

      • Rattlehead
        Confirmed User
        • Mar 2003
        • 744

        #53
        Outstanding...You Bastard. Your gonna have to take me for a ride.
        Oh and thanks for the plug.
        See you in San Diego, hopefully with your new ride.

        Jim
        Wifey Cash - Official Program For Wifey's World

        Comment

        • EdgeXXX
          Confirmed User
          • Oct 2005
          • 5816

          #54
          Originally posted by fuzebox
          Have you driven both? What is your driving style like? Do you have a manual or F1?

          I have two friends who have owned both and both prefer the 355... The 355 was more expensive... From what I've heard/read, the 355 was more of a track car whereas the 360 is more of an easy-to-drive street car.

          Yes, I drove a 355 before I bought my 360 (because I liked the look of the 355 a little more at the time). The 355 Challenge handled more like a track car, but as far as the Spyders went the 360 Spyder felt to me like it outperformed the 355 Spyder. As far as price, the 360 was more expensive (at least when I bought mine); the sticker on a 360 Spyder was over $200k. I did get the manual tranny instead of the F1 paddles; I just like the more traditional feel.


          P.S. I will say that the 360 seems to be a more "forgiving" car than the 355, which is probably why many people think the 355 is more of a track car and the 360 is more of a street car.
          .
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          I have a sig

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          • RhiannonAPM
            Confirmed User
            • Apr 2006
            • 728

            #55
            So when do I get my ride??
            ICQ---257-820-736

            Comment

            • EdgeXXX
              Confirmed User
              • Oct 2005
              • 5816

              #56
              Originally posted by Minte
              There is one warning.If you go with Ferrari,parking it in front of a Starbucks will get you fired from adult.com and banned from GFY!


              Is there a story that goes along with this one, Minte?
              .
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              I have a sig

              Comment

              • ServerGenius
                Confirmed User
                • Feb 2002
                • 9377

                #57
                Originally posted by EdgeXXX
                Why is that? I LOVE my 360.
                The F355 is more exclusive and holds its value better than a 360 Modena.
                The 360 Modena has a become a rich people fashion car. As mentioned
                by someone else it's still a nice car but it has lost the raw character of ferrari.
                Too many consessions have been made to make it an every day drivable car.
                Handling is not what you'd expect from a real ferrari. The F355 is a real ferrari.
                You have to work in the car to really enjoy it and it is less forgiving for driver
                mistakes. A second hand F355 sells a lot better than a 360 modena. Ferrari
                fanatics would pic a F355 any day over a modena.

                Don't get me wrong a 360 Modena is still a nice car....but if you could pick
                I'd go fir a F355 without a shadow of a doubt.

                Rochard don't just take suggestions from what people tell you. It all depends
                on your driving skills/style and what you are looking for. Take your time
                and make sure you test several ferraris before picking one. A good dealer
                will arrange this for you. A Ferrari test drive IS NOT A BLOCK AROUND THE
                DEALERSHIP. Make sure you can do a decent test drive where you are able
                to explore the car and its perfomance.

                | http://www.sinnerscash.com/ | ICQ: 370820 | Skype: SinnersCash | AdultWhosWho |

                Comment

                • EdgeXXX
                  Confirmed User
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 5816

                  #58
                  Originally posted by ServerGenius
                  The F355 is more exclusive and holds its value better than a 360 Modena.
                  The 360 Modena has a become a rich people fashion car. As mentioned
                  by someone else it's still a nice car but it has lost the raw character of ferrari.
                  Too many consessions have been made to make it an every day drivable car.
                  Handling is not what you'd expect from a real ferrari. The F355 is a real ferrari.
                  You have to work in the car to really enjoy it and it is less forgiving for driver
                  mistakes. A second hand F355 sells a lot better than a 360 modena. Ferrari
                  fanatics would pic a F355 any day over a modena.

                  Don't get me wrong a 360 Modena is still a nice car....but if you could pick
                  I'd go fir a F355 without a shadow of a doubt.

                  Rochard don't just take suggestions from what people tell you. It all depends
                  on your driving skills/style and what you are looking for. Take your time
                  and make sure you test several ferraris before picking one. A good dealer
                  will arrange this for you. A Ferrari test drive IS NOT A BLOCK AROUND THE
                  DEALERSHIP. Make sure you can do a decent test drive where you are able
                  to explore the car and its perfomance.

                  I agree with most of that with the exception of the resale values. Around here, most of the 355 Spyders that I have seen for sale are right around or under $100k, and most of the 360 Spyders are still hovering around $150k+ (especially the non-F1).


                  Oh, and I completely agree about the test drive.
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                  I have a sig

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                  • SleazyDream
                    I'm here for SPORT
                    • Jul 2001
                    • 41470

                    #59
                    can i borrow your car?


                    I wana take Elli for a ride in it.
                    This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

                    Now read without the word dog.

                    Comment

                    • Altwebdesign

                      #60
                      Sweet!!
                      any ferraris are awesome they always look fantastic!

                      Comment

                      • Grapesoda
                        So Fucking Banned
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 46234

                        #61
                        the auto gallery in calabasses will do the trick . . lambos and mazeratis too

                        Comment

                        • BrettJ
                          ol' timer
                          • Jan 2001
                          • 4715

                          #62
                          Originally posted by jimmy-3-way
                          Yeah...I don't know if you can really get a 'deal'. Aren't these things rather hot items??
                          You would know =) Anyway, yeh there is typically a waiting list and once you take possession you can usually sell it for more money than you bought it for since there is some guy that just came into a bunch of money and he wants the car immediately

                          Comment

                          • Mr.Right - Banned For Life
                            I guarantee it
                            • May 2005
                            • 18314

                            #63
                            Congrats Rochard.

                            Comment

                            • elitetec
                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 4944

                              #64
                              The F355 is a real ferrari.
                              You have to work in the car to really enjoy it and it is less forgiving for driver
                              mistakes. A second hand F355 sells a lot better than a 360 modena



                              Add Your Site To My PR4 Blog
                              Selling Sig ICQ-200636146

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                              • ServerGenius
                                Confirmed User
                                • Feb 2002
                                • 9377

                                #65
                                And take an advanced driving course ferrari arranges them aswell. No matter
                                how well you think you can drive....it's defenitely worth it. You'll learn a lot
                                of stuff that will enhance your driving experience a lot. Don't think you don't
                                need it coz you already are able to drive fast. Even if you can...you'll always
                                learn new stuff about the car and it's limits a lot faster than by trial and error.
                                Apart from that these training courses are a LOT of fun to attent....You'll be
                                very glad if you take them.

                                | http://www.sinnerscash.com/ | ICQ: 370820 | Skype: SinnersCash | AdultWhosWho |

                                Comment

                                • Sosa
                                  In Tushy Land
                                  • Oct 2002
                                  • 40149

                                  #66
                                  I love the 360. Congrats

                                  Comment

                                  • SBJ
                                    So Fucking Fabulous
                                    • Apr 2003
                                    • 11377

                                    #67
                                    Originally posted by Shok
                                    how does that work, does the bank just cut you a check for the overage of the value?


                                    yeah his bank heard i was moving into his place it it doubled in value overnight

                                    Congrats on the step up in cars!! Can't wait to see what you get

                                    I've always liked yellow ferrari's myself

                                    Comment

                                    • gregtx
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jan 2002
                                      • 1929

                                      #68
                                      I believe that is the F430 in that pic above.. not the 360;)

                                      funny to read all of the expert Ferrari opinions in this thread.. i'd bet that 90% of those opinions have done nothing but oogled over one at a car show and read road and track articles...

                                      Rochard.. personally you look more like the 308 GTS Magnum PI style ;)

                                      its not just owning a ferrari.. its maintaning it that costs the $$$.. IIRC brads oil change and tune up was around $7k... (360 F1)
                                      Processing Partners http://www.processingpartners.com

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                                      • ServerGenius
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Feb 2002
                                        • 9377

                                        #69
                                        Originally posted by EdgeXXX
                                        I agree with most of that with the exception of the resale values. Around here, most of the 355 Spyders that I have seen for sale are right around or under $100k, and most of the 360 Spyders are still hovering around $150k+ (especially the non-F1).


                                        Oh, and I completely agree about the test drive.
                                        If you want to sell quick....then yes modena prices are at level because of the
                                        demand. Also a spyder isn't as wanted as a normal car. Convertable cars
                                        carry extra weight because without a roof the car is less rigid and they need
                                        to add extra beams to the chasis to make up for that. A spider loses some of
                                        the perfomance as its handling is worse than a non spider mostly because it's
                                        less rigid.

                                        | http://www.sinnerscash.com/ | ICQ: 370820 | Skype: SinnersCash | AdultWhosWho |

                                        Comment

                                        • EdgeXXX
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Oct 2005
                                          • 5816

                                          #70
                                          Originally posted by ServerGenius
                                          If you want to sell quick....then yes modena prices are at level because of the
                                          demand. Also a spyder isn't as wanted as a normal car. Convertable cars
                                          carry extra weight because without a roof the car is less rigid and they need
                                          to add extra beams to the chasis to make up for that. A spider loses some of
                                          the perfomance as its handling is worse than a non spider mostly because it's
                                          less rigid.


                                          Yeah, I know. I originally wanted a 360 Challenge Stradale (because I already had a WS6 Convertible), but there is just something about driving the Spyder on a beautiful day that is worth it.
                                          .
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                                          .

                                          I have a sig

                                          Comment

                                          • corvette
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Oct 2001
                                            • 7880

                                            #71
                                            Originally posted by ServerGenius
                                            A Ferrari test drive IS NOT A BLOCK AROUND THE
                                            DEALERSHIP. Make sure you can do a decent test drive where you are able
                                            to explore the car and its perfomance.

                                            some ferarri test drives can take months to complete...
                                            If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

                                            Comment

                                            • AmateurFlix
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Jul 2004
                                              • 7762

                                              #72
                                              Originally posted by gregtx
                                              oil change and tune up was around $7k... (360 F1)
                                              jeeeez

                                              Comment

                                              • ServerGenius
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Feb 2002
                                                • 9377

                                                #73
                                                Originally posted by EdgeXXX
                                                Yeah, I know. I originally wanted a 360 Challenge Stradale (because I already had a WS6 Convertible), but there is just something about driving the Spyder on a beautiful day that is worth it.
                                                I can understand exactly what you're saying. It depends what you are looking
                                                for. If you like to cruise and just enjoy you'll want a different car than if you
                                                like a challenge and play with the power/performance of a car. You got to
                                                pick the car that fits to what you want from a car. Ask 10 owners of ferraris
                                                with different models and you'll get 10 different opinions to what you should
                                                buy......all with at least 10 reasons why you should pick a certain type of model.

                                                First decide what you're looking for, then testdrive cars till you find what appeals
                                                you the most that's 100 times more important than what other people
                                                might think about your choice. You are the one who's going to drive it.....that's all that counts.

                                                | http://www.sinnerscash.com/ | ICQ: 370820 | Skype: SinnersCash | AdultWhosWho |

                                                Comment

                                                • KRL
                                                  Entrepreneur
                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                  • 31429

                                                  #74
                                                  Just keep in mind, a Ferrari is a fun after hours / weekend car, but not very practical for an everday car.

                                                  There's a reason why you see so many for sell with low mileage within a year after guys buy them.

                                                  And depending on your body build they aren't very comfortable.

                                                  And you have to be sure you're near a good service shop or have a mechanic that specializes in exotics and be prepared to layout lots of cash to maintain it properly.

                                                  Personally, I'd recommend the Maserati Quattroporte which will give you the Italian exotic ride and feel with much more practicality and room for friends to ride with when you go out. Stylish, but not as showy as a Ferrari, so you're less of a target.



                                                  But if you're still set on one, then go to Vegas or Beverly Hills and rent some various models to take them for a test run all day to really get the feel. Each model has a different flavor and handling characteristics.
                                                  Last edited by KRL; 05-12-2006, 01:11 PM.
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                                                  • EdgeXXX
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Oct 2005
                                                    • 5816

                                                    #75
                                                    Originally posted by ServerGenius
                                                    I can understand exactly what you're saying. It depends what you are looking
                                                    for. If you like to cruise and just enjoy you'll want a different car than if you
                                                    like a challenge and play with the power/performance of a car. You got to
                                                    pick the car that fits to what you want from a car. Ask 10 owners of ferraris
                                                    with different models and you'll get 10 different opinions to what you should
                                                    buy......all with at least 10 reasons why you should pick a certain type of model.

                                                    First decide what you're looking for, then testdrive cars till you find what appeals
                                                    you the most that's 100 times more important than what other people
                                                    might think about your choice. You are the one who's going to drive it.....that's all that counts.


                                                    Very well said
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                                                    I have a sig

                                                    Comment

                                                    • ServerGenius
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Feb 2002
                                                      • 9377

                                                      #76
                                                      Originally posted by gregtx
                                                      I believe that is the F430 in that pic above.. not the 360;)

                                                      funny to read all of the expert Ferrari opinions in this thread.. i'd bet that 90% of those opinions have done nothing but oogled over one at a car show and read road and track articles...

                                                      Rochard.. personally you look more like the 308 GTS Magnum PI style ;)

                                                      its not just owning a ferrari.. its maintaning it that costs the $$$.. IIRC brads oil change and tune up was around $7k... (360 F1)
                                                      I don't own a Ferrari and never have.....I did race them a LOT....yes that's
                                                      right I've raced GT races on tracks in OTHER people's their Ferrari.
                                                      | http://www.sinnerscash.com/ | ICQ: 370820 | Skype: SinnersCash | AdultWhosWho |

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Jarmusch
                                                         
                                                        • May 2003
                                                        • 12479

                                                        #77
                                                        Get the F430!!

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Rochard
                                                          Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                          • Dec 2001
                                                          • 75763

                                                          #78
                                                          Originally posted by RhiannonAPM
                                                          So when do I get my ride??
                                                          Any day of the week......
                                                          Herschel Savage
                                                          Brooklyn, NY

                                                          Comment

                                                          • deniska
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Mar 2001
                                                            • 1053

                                                            #79
                                                            F430 the only way to roll

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Rochard
                                                              Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                              • Dec 2001
                                                              • 75763

                                                              #80
                                                              Originally posted by KRL
                                                              Just keep in mind, a Ferrari is a fun after hours / weekend car, but not very practical for an everday car.

                                                              There's a reason why you see so many for sell with low mileage within a year after guys buy them.

                                                              And depending on your body build they aren't very comfortable.

                                                              And you have to be sure you're near a good service shop or have a mechanic that specializes in exotics and be prepared to layout lots of cash to maintain it properly.
                                                              The car I currently have isn't much of a daily driver. It's got way too much power to the rear tires, the back end slips out if I get anywhere near agreesive with it, it handles like crap, and is dangerous in the rain.

                                                              I rarely have a passenger with me, so a two seater is fine.
                                                              Herschel Savage
                                                              Brooklyn, NY

                                                              Comment

                                                              • jimmy-3-way
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Jun 2001
                                                                • 3861

                                                                #81
                                                                Originally posted by BrettJ
                                                                You would know =) Anyway, yeh there is typically a waiting list and once you take possession you can usually sell it for more money than you bought it for since there is some guy that just came into a bunch of money and he wants the car immediately
                                                                Yeah uh *cough, cough* I don't know anybody like that.

                                                                Why the hell would I know? I don't even drive. But, you know. I hear things. From guys. At the office.
                                                                Make money offa that Asian honey - www.eroticmp.com.

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                                                                • DatingGold
                                                                  $6 PER EMAIL JOiN
                                                                  • Feb 2003
                                                                  • 13185

                                                                  #82
                                                                  Originally posted by ServerGenius
                                                                  The F355 is more exclusive and holds its value better than a 360 Modena.
                                                                  The 360 Modena has a become a rich people fashion car. As mentioned
                                                                  by someone else it's still a nice car but it has lost the raw character of ferrari.
                                                                  Too many consessions have been made to make it an every day drivable car.
                                                                  Handling is not what you'd expect from a real ferrari. The F355 is a real ferrari.
                                                                  You have to work in the car to really enjoy it and it is less forgiving for driver
                                                                  mistakes. A second hand F355 sells a lot better than a 360 modena. Ferrari
                                                                  fanatics would pic a F355 any day over a modena.

                                                                  Don't get me wrong a 360 Modena is still a nice car....but if you could pick
                                                                  I'd go fir a F355 without a shadow of a doubt.

                                                                  Rochard don't just take suggestions from what people tell you. It all depends
                                                                  on your driving skills/style and what you are looking for. Take your time
                                                                  and make sure you test several ferraris before picking one. A good dealer
                                                                  will arrange this for you. A Ferrari test drive IS NOT A BLOCK AROUND THE
                                                                  DEALERSHIP. Make sure you can do a decent test drive where you are able
                                                                  to explore the car and its perfomance.

                                                                  Correct me if I'm wrong but it's obvious you haven't driven both.
                                                                  9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions!



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                                                                  • Manowar
                                                                    jellyfish  
                                                                    • Dec 2003
                                                                    • 71528

                                                                    #83
                                                                    the 360 is so sweet

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • VicD
                                                                      ICQ: 304-611-162
                                                                      • Feb 2005
                                                                      • 13245

                                                                      #84
                                                                      Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                      The recent changes in my life combined with the fact that the value of my house in Phoenix has doubled in the past three years has left me with a huge pile of cash - and the time has come to forfill a lifetime dream of owning a Ferrari.

                                                                      This weekend I'm flying down to SOCAL to start looking for my first Ferrari. I'm currently being guided by a friend in Phoenix who owns one, but I'm open to any advice anyone is willing to give.

                                                                      This is Paul's Ferrari; Paul owns amateurallure.com in Phoenix and this is what I have in mind.

                                                                      I thought there was no money in porn

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                                                                      • ServerGenius
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Feb 2002
                                                                        • 9377

                                                                        #85
                                                                        Originally posted by DatingGold
                                                                        Correct me if I'm wrong but it's obvious you haven't driven both.
                                                                        Let me correct you then as I have, will post pics tomorrow to prove it if you
                                                                        doubt my word.
                                                                        | http://www.sinnerscash.com/ | ICQ: 370820 | Skype: SinnersCash | AdultWhosWho |

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • DatingGold
                                                                          $6 PER EMAIL JOiN
                                                                          • Feb 2003
                                                                          • 13185

                                                                          #86
                                                                          I spent $360k on a F430 Spider. I hope your big pile of cash is BIG.

                                                                          Whatever you do, don't wimp out and get a coupe. Get the spider.

                                                                          Don't get a 355 the maintenance will suck, and its too outdated. Anyone that buys one of those now, can't afford a Ferrari and shouldn't be buying one.

                                                                          360 Spider is a nice ride, but if you can get in a F430 you will notice a nice difference in power. Also the F1 transmission in the F430 kicks butt on the 360 and the 355 can't even compare.

                                                                          That's my
                                                                          9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions!



                                                                          ADULT DATING - $100 PPS

                                                                          LIVE CAMS - $214 PPS

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                                                                          • Manowar
                                                                            jellyfish  
                                                                            • Dec 2003
                                                                            • 71528

                                                                            #87
                                                                            Originally posted by marketsmart
                                                                            360 spider.... thats the one to get...
                                                                            that's a 430 dude

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Vitasoy
                                                                              GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                                              • 58202

                                                                              #88
                                                                              That ride makes me wet


                                                                              [email protected]

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Nick
                                                                                Registered User
                                                                                • Jan 2001
                                                                                • 259

                                                                                #89
                                                                                Nice Choice Dude!

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • E$_manager
                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                  • Apr 2006
                                                                                  • 13557

                                                                                  #90
                                                                                  Good luck, Rochard!
                                                                                  Next pic will be you and Ferrary together.
                                                                                  Enjoy more sales with EnjoyBucks!
                                                                                  Homemade: Asian : Ebony : GFs : Voyeur : Nudist : Public : 3D

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                                                                                  • vod
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                                                    • 3510

                                                                                    #91
                                                                                    Rochard - get the F50





                                                                                    the Enzo is always a good pic, how much do you have to play with ?




                                                                                    this car is also very hot and i'm sure not affordable for many.


                                                                                    Adult Merchant Account

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                                                                                    • ffmihai
                                                                                      keep walking...
                                                                                      • Jun 2002
                                                                                      • 7177

                                                                                      #92
                                                                                      Originally posted by Minte
                                                                                      Whatever you get enjoy it.Italians make nice cars.I personally drove the 360 and the Lambo on the same day and ended up with the Lambo.


                                                                                      There is one warning.If you go with Ferrari,parking it in front of a Starbucks will get you fired from adult.com and banned from GFY!

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Basic_man
                                                                                        Programming King Pin
                                                                                        • Oct 2003
                                                                                        • 27360

                                                                                        #93
                                                                                        One paysite and your friend can buy a Ferrari? wow!
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                                                                                        • Manowar
                                                                                          jellyfish  
                                                                                          • Dec 2003
                                                                                          • 71528

                                                                                          #94
                                                                                          Originally posted by Basic_man
                                                                                          One paysite and your friend can buy a Ferrari? wow!
                                                                                          amateurallure is one of the biggest single ones around

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Rochard
                                                                                            Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                            • Dec 2001
                                                                                            • 75763

                                                                                            #95
                                                                                            Originally posted by vicd
                                                                                            I thought there was no money in porn
                                                                                            Eight years ago I was running a small circle of free sites and making beer money. Lensman's company was located in Pleasanton, blocks from where I lived. I was an affiliate of Lensman's and they were looking for a webmaster so I get an email from Tanker asking me if I was interested in working for them as a webmaster.

                                                                                            My response was "There is no money in porn".

                                                                                            And I was wrong.
                                                                                            Herschel Savage
                                                                                            Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Spunky
                                                                                              I need a beer
                                                                                              • Jun 2002
                                                                                              • 133978

                                                                                              #96
                                                                                              Congrats man..awesome

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • s9ann0
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Sep 2001
                                                                                                • 4873

                                                                                                #97
                                                                                                I think I'd go for a top of the range 911 if I had the dough

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • GTS Mark
                                                                                                  Vrume Mark
                                                                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                                                                  • 20912

                                                                                                  #98
                                                                                                  Wow good for you Rochard! I would love to buy a Ferrari but the insurance cost alone for that car would give you a nosebleed LOL!

                                                                                                  DH

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • buddyjuf

                                                                                                    #99
                                                                                                    congrats yo, I myself am a huge fan of the 360 Spider or the new F430s

                                                                                                    however, and this is however, I would pick a Gallardo over the ferraris :P

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • JayLogic
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • May 2006
                                                                                                      • 324

                                                                                                      #100
                                                                                                      360 is hot
                                                                                                      congrats
                                                                                                      Xeon Logic
                                                                                                      ICQ: 306686539

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