Just in - Max hardcore GUILTY on all charges

It seems the law cared..

You shoot porn in the US and don't think anyone cares about obscenity?

This is the same public which in the majority have all watch porn in thier lives and enjoyed it. The same public by the MILLIONS that go the the local porn shop, look on the internet order on PPV or enjoy at the hotel when on vacation. So yes public, see us as evil and don't defned us and one day when you go searching for your porn and it can't be found you have yourself to blame.

I speak as someone who knows what it's like to produce porn that was illegal, though never obscene.

This is federal not state, so no county for him. From what I read in the past, this type of conviction can carry some serious jailtime and then when you get out you will be put on the sexual offender list. Its very suckful.

You wouldn't exist if old timers hadn't "push the enveloppe"....

I started in porn when we had to cut scenes where pubic hair showed.. forget hardons ... and every new film, I would try to get a few frames more left in ... that was pushing the enveloppe ...

People like you shouldn't be in this industry, but selling bibles to the inbreds of the trailer parks.

Read pleasurepays he makes some sense,its the hard truth:

If people in this biz weren?t totally retarded, totally disorganized and actually had some guidelines and standards to work and live by this industry wouldn?t have many real legal problems. How about not pushing? how about setting some clear, defensible boundaries and staying within them? rather than always challenging the world to shut you down?

There is a difference between drawing the line in the sand, one which you know can be defended and staying behind it and the totally incorrect assumption that anything and everything you do is somehow Constitutionally protected and to keep pushing the most influential groups in this country to shut you down by making sure they always have the ammo they need to keep firing at you until they hit something.

Right now many of you US idiots want to make the argument that shitting on, pissing on, vomiting on, pissing in girls mouths until they choke and cry etc isn?t ?obscene? or isn?t obscene in GodsVillage, Indiana? and most of you then go further to suggest that what he is going through is unfair as if no one really knew that you can?t just mail out totally over the top porn with some old wrinkly fuck pissing into a girls mouth until she starts to choke and cry to any state, county and city in the country without a serious risk of being prosecuted.

Really?

The biggest problem with this industry is that it is full of anti-social idiots with a strong resentment for authority. Thats all fine and well when you are rebelling against your alcoholic father who frequently tried to kiss you or watch you take a bath? but it?s not hardly a winning formula for the long term success of a controversial industry whose greatest enemies are infinitely more organized, deep pocketed and focused on the simple goal of stopping you and that usually have the public and federal government behind them to do it.

The ?rights? you many of you seem to think you have in the US are an illusion. People make the laws. People make the laws against people like you. They can because they know you are weak. You are the low hanging fruit of society. They will attack you because they know no one is going to defend you? because you can?t defend yourselves. They will continue to attack you because they can always rely on the fact that you will constantly be throwing whatever offensive thing you do right in their face and daring them to do something about it. And they are fucking you over right now. They are arguing that each one of you is a Max Hardcore,.. no better. A disease in society. Eventually, they will win and you will lose and it will be your fault, because far too many people in this industry are irretrievably damaged, self destructive fuck ups? and because no one will separate you and what you do from the absolute worst of the worst in this biz.

The public doesn?t see (and never will see) ?good? and ?bad? pornographers. They just see ?pornographers? and the public perception of you will never be any better than the publics perception of Max Hardcore and some old guy shitting on an 18 year old runaway while she cries. And its not the publics fault. It?s your fault. You repeatedly make the choice to defend the worst of the worst in a political and social climate where you will eventually lose. You don?t even have the sense to pick and choose battles and choose battles you can win. Instead, you let the worst of the worst in this industry pick a fight on your behalf. Brilliant! Are you fucking kidding me? Eventually you will lose these fights? And once you finally lose? you will lose big because the fight against you will never stop and you don?t have the brains or foresight to organize and defend yourselves, set standards and police yourselves. Instead? you are happy doing lines of cocaine off a strippers ass while complaining about who is President and how unfair life is and will just let the Christian Right do it for you.

How will the government restrict your business because you didn?t have the brains, foresight and organizational skills to put yourself in a defensible position first? Because in the most important fights, you choose to not have a strong defensive plan or even an offense?

This industry is like a really big, cocky, heavy weight fighter with a glass jaw. Eventually, its going to catch one on the chin and it will be lights out for all. It?s not a question of ?if?? only ?when? ?. and why? because most of you stupid assholes prefer to think its your ?right? and will keep doing that until its finally decided to take that ?right? away because you just can?t and won?t see the bigger picture.

what exactly is considered "obscene" anyways? i bet the religious right would consider it obscene. IMO, if its not illegal to engage in the act, it shouldnt' be illegal to film and distribute.

If people in this biz weren?t totally retarded, totally disorganized and actually had some guidelines and standards to work and live by this industry wouldn?t have many real legal problems. How about not pushing? how about setting some clear, defensible boundaries and staying within them? rather than always challenging the world to shut you down?

There is a difference between drawing the line in the sand, one which you know can be defended and staying behind it and the totally incorrect assumption that anything and everything you do is somehow Constitutionally protected and to keep pushing the most influential groups in this country to shut you down by making sure they always have the ammo they need to keep firing at you until they hit something.

Right now many of you US idiots want to make the argument that shitting on, pissing on, vomiting on, pissing in girls mouths until they choke and cry etc isn?t ?obscene? or isn?t obscene in GodsVillage, Indiana? and most of you then go further to suggest that what he is going through is unfair as if no one really knew that you can?t just mail out totally over the top porn with some old wrinkly fuck pissing into a girls mouth until she starts to choke and cry to any state, county and city in the country without a serious risk of being prosecuted.

Really?

The biggest problem with this industry is that it is full of anti-social idiots with a strong resentment for authority. Thats all fine and well when you are rebelling against your alcoholic father who frequently tried to kiss you or watch you take a bath? but it?s not hardly a winning formula for the long term success of a controversial industry whose greatest enemies are infinitely more organized, deep pocketed and focused on the simple goal of stopping you and that usually have the public and federal government behind them to do it.

The ?rights? you many of you seem to think you have in the US are an illusion. People make the laws. People make the laws against people like you. They can because they know you are weak. You are the low hanging fruit of society. They will attack you because they know no one is going to defend you? because you can?t defend yourselves. They will continue to attack you because they can always rely on the fact that you will constantly be throwing whatever offensive thing you do right in their face and daring them to do something about it. And they are fucking you over right now. They are arguing that each one of you is a Max Hardcore,.. no better. A disease in society. Eventually, they will win and you will lose and it will be your fault, because far too many people in this industry are irretrievably damaged, self destructive fuck ups? and because no one will separate you and what you do from the absolute worst of the worst in this biz.

The public doesn?t see (and never will see) ?good? and ?bad? pornographers. They just see ?pornographers? and the public perception of you will never be any better than the publics perception of Max Hardcore and some old guy shitting on an 18 year old runaway while she cries. And its not the publics fault. It?s your fault. You repeatedly make the choice to defend the worst of the worst in a political and social climate where you will eventually lose. You don?t even have the sense to pick and choose battles and choose battles you can win. Instead, you let the worst of the worst in this industry pick a fight on your behalf. Brilliant! Are you fucking kidding me? Eventually you will lose these fights? And once you finally lose? you will lose big because the fight against you will never stop and you don?t have the brains or foresight to organize and defend yourselves, set standards and police yourselves. Instead? you are happy doing lines of cocaine off a strippers ass while complaining about who is President and how unfair life is and will just let the Christian Right do it for you.

How will the government restrict your business because you didn?t have the brains, foresight and organizational skills to put yourself in a defensible position first? Because in the most important fights, you choose to not have a strong defensive plan or even an offense?

This industry is like a really big, cocky, heavy weight fighter with a glass jaw. Eventually, its going to catch one on the chin and it will be lights out for all. It?s not a question of ?if?? only ?when? ?. and why? because most of you stupid assholes prefer to think its your ?right? and will keep doing that until its finally decided to take that ?right? away because you just can?t and won?t see the bigger picture.

I see what you're saying, and I agree with parts of it, but I still think it's a dangerous proposition anytime you allow the government (or others) to determine what obscene is. It's a slippery slope and obscenity is a vague term that can be used against website owners as a means of quieting them (see what happened to NowThatsFuckedUp.com).

And it's easy to say "set a line in the sand", but how do you do that? Who determines what is acceptable and what is not? Would there be a time limit for how long someone can gag for, or is it strictly based on particular sex acts? Would there be a written list to work off of? I just don't see how you could draw a consensus from this in the adult community.

Even if that line can be drawn, it will just be fought to be pushed back. Do you seriously believe that conservatives will stop battling pornography simply because the adult industry decided that scat was a bad thing? To them this isn't about just Max Hardcore, it's about all porn. Look at the gun industry. If the NRA came out tomorrow and decided they would stand against machine guns, would anti-gun advocates call it a day and move on to something else?

The only thing setting a line in the sand does is admit that something between consenting adults should be illegal. It in fact makes their argument stronger. And from a strictly business perspective, I agree with a lot of your points. I think this stuff does hurt the industry. But from a human perspective, I'm just tired of people telling others what is right or wrong. I'm tired of people telling me what is obscene. The definition of obscene is different for every one of us. When this industry (or any other in the entertainment world) admits that something should be considered obscene by all, it simply gives their argument credibility. The argument should simply be, if you don't like it, don't watch it.

The prosecution failed to show the entire video(s) to the jury. That alone could be game, set, match. The Miller test requires that the material be taken as a whole, the prosecution didn't show the whole work to the jury, game over.

I understand what you are saying but my only point is that for the producers that shoot content as extreme as max's content then this case does have some relation to them and they should reconsider shooting extreme shit unless they want to take chances but for the producers that are shooting adult mainstream content such as girls modeling nude, blowjob scenes, handjob scenes...I don't see how that really has any relation to what is going on here. I don't know why some people are freaking out and thinking that just because max was found guilty of obscenity charges that there is not going to be anymore pornography produced in the future.

If shooting content such as girls modeling nude, handjobs, blowjobs....was considered obscene then there would not be an adult industry here in America and it would have been banned decades ago. In my opinion, pornography will always exist....just as it always has existed. You just need to watch what your shooting and don't play with fire because as we have all seen, if you shoot that type of content then your asking for trouble.

And the rest of you, would you want your sister to be in a scene like this or would you be going after Paul for abusing her like this? By what is described it seems what he did was illegal. So he was filming an illegal act unless you can prove it was acting and the girl was acting/faking the crying and displeasure.

Good luck proving it was acting.

Keep protecting shits like this and the Government will keep going after you.

People think just because he call his shit porn that it is. Sorry but the dude is pissing in girls mouths and filming what seems to be forced sex on drugged girls. Big surprise he got hit with obscenity charges.

Where is the artistic value in that?

I'm not against free speech in any means, but really what does this kind of content "add" to our industry? The shit he films is exactly what gives us a bad name and will now likely cause the rest of us problems.

It's funny that you cite the example of pissing in girls mouths when, ironically, far far worse scenes are shown in your average R-rated movie. The latest Rambo flick features scenes of guys getting their heads blown wide open -- WAY more obscene than anything Max Hardcore could even dream of doing. Why is that? It brings me back to how analogous America is to radical Islam in that violence = good, women showing skin = bad. What kind of F'd up ish is that?

There are numerous movies that show urination on others. Plenty that also show vomiting and vomiting on others. Crying, emotional distress, sheer acts of terror and horror, plus plenty of violence. You can even toss in several counts of acting underage or even actual underage nudity with plenty of acting underage sex and sexual assaults.

That's an opinion and not law. Until the law changes you have to abide by it, or take it like a man when you get caught. Or are you saying that if in your opinion you don't agree with a law it does not apply to you?

Like the people who pirate porn say!!

Think about it beyond the small box.

When Flint pushed back, about the worst a person would see was a hot chick with goo on her face and the chances are good that even if none of the 12 actually ever had the chance to give the wife "a different kind of facial than she goes to the spa to get", you'd have at least 1 on the jury that wanted to!

Max was all but raping that girl - simulated or not and finding 12 folks who didn't think that was obscene is a much harder task to accomplish.

Bama I do agree with some of what you said. However to again point out an issue you bring up akin to that facial remark. Keep in mind that according to many legit scientific studies and surveys, rape fantasies rank very high among both men and women. So the same argument could be applied.

Maybe he will be learning what it's like to be humiliated by a man who is in control.

It's funny that you cite the example of pissing in girls mouths when, ironically, far far worse scenes are shown in your average R-rated movie. The latest Rambo flick features scenes of guys getting their heads blown wide open -- WAY more obscene than anything Max Hardcore could even dream of doing. Why is that? It brings me back to how analogous America is to radical Islam in that violence = good, women showing skin = bad. What kind of F'd up ish is that?

what does the law consider obscene? like someone mentioned earlier.. we dont know until we go in front of a jury.

I see the morally superior pornographers are out in full force on this one. Why am I not surprised?

To me, it's like this. Max pissing in a girl's mouth, displayed on a billboard in the middle of town. That's obscene.
Max pissing in a girl's mouth, recorded on DVD, and shipped in a plain brown wrapper to someone who specifically requested that material and paid money for it, is free expression.

If you can't make that distinction, then you're not intelligent enough to understand the rest of this post, so please put me on ignore right now.

All freedoms come with a price.
Extreme pornography is the inevitable consequence of the free expression clause, the same way Scientology or the Branch Davidians are the inevitable consequence of the free exercise clause, the same way that the National Enquirer is the inevitable consequence of a free press, the same way that the Montana Militia Men are the inevitable consequence of the 2nd amendment.

Max Hardcore hasn't made your life harder anymore than the Jehovah's Witnesses have made life harder for Catholics. (Many communities directed laws against the Witnesses and many court battles ensued, but it didn't make it harder for anyone else to practice their religion)
The National Enquirer's constant publication of erroneous reports doesn't hurt the New York Times.
The Montana Militia Men don't make it harder for you to own a shotgun.

If there is any place where there should be a wholehearted embrace of the 1st amendment it should be here. Free expression can't just apply to things you like or things that don't offend you, it HAS TO apply to things that make you sick to your stomach or else it isn't really freedom.

Those of you who say Max was "asking for it" are delusional. "Asking for it" would be pissing in a girl's mouth in the middle of Times Square. He filmed sex acts (granted, deviant sex acts by almost anyone's standards) between consenting adults, and sold copies of the film to other adults who specifically requested it. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

Televangelists make me sick to my stomach. I want to puke every time they speak in tongues or plant a staff member in a wheelchair so they can "heal them" or say that god's blessing awaits you if you just send money to their ministry.
I would rather watch 10 straight hours of Max taking a shit than 10 minutes of a televangelist.
Just because they offend me doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do. (They, by the way, do it in the middle of Times Square) Their offensiveness is even more egregious, because they specifically target their speech at people who don't wish to hear it, rather than limiting it to people who request it. Yet their rights are sacrosanct, and Max apparently has no rights.

Stick that in your irony pipe and smoke it.

Honestly I think that this case is a slam dunk for Max on appeal.

The prosecution failed to show the entire video(s) to the jury. That alone could be game, set, match. The Miller test requires that the material be taken as a whole, the prosecution didn't show the whole work to the jury, game over.

There was also the issue that Max didn't mail the DVD's, another company took the order and mailed the DVD's, yet Max was convicted on 10 counts of something that he plainly didn't do.

There were also several other issues that I read about in the trial coverage that are definitely going to be brought up during the appeal.

Now that the case is out of the hands of jurors who were sick to their stomach from watching the films, and in the hands of jurists who care about the law and proper procedure, I think Max's chances are very good.

Paul for one I would not even want my sister around a piece of scum as yourself let alone in something Max made.

The one thing that really scares me about how this case went down is the obvious manipulation of the jury in many ways. Obscenity is established by viewing the ENTIRE BODY OF WORK, not just portions, it must be taken in it's entirety. The jury in this case were ONLY SHOWN TRAILERS, and when it was requested that they view the FULL body of work, they were DENIED. THAT scares the shit out of me, because now all of a sudden even "obscenity under community standards" isn't fair this way.

I speak as someone who knows what it's like to produce porn that was illegal, though never obscene.

The one thing that really scares me about how this case went down is the obvious manipulation of the jury in many ways. Obscenity is established by viewing the ENTIRE BODY OF WORK, not just portions, it must be taken in it's entirety. The jury in this case were ONLY SHOWN TRAILERS, and when it was requested that they view the FULL body of work, they were DENIED.

where I live porn featuring a black man fucking a white chick would be obscene. In some areas just a girl giving a guy a blowjob would be obscene. So to say what you do in not "obscene" is your opinon. Unfortunately for you that doesn't count. The only opinions that count is the jury where a DA trying to make name for himself takes you to trial in some backwoods part of the country.

It's funny that you cite the example of pissing in girls mouths when, ironically, far far worse scenes are shown in your average R-rated movie. The latest Rambo flick features scenes of guys getting their heads blown wide open -- WAY more obscene than anything Max Hardcore could even dream of doing. Why is that? It brings me back to how analogous America is to radical Islam in that violence = good, women showing skin = bad. What kind of F'd up ish is that?

These are posts I can relate to. Well said, and definitely worth quoting.

I don't know about the "slam dunk" on appeal, but if he ever had a chance of one, yes, his chances of getting one are definitely higher on appeal. In fact I like his chances now that this lower juristictional court has given his side several grounds for appeal. I can already spot several instances where the jury pool was tainted or allowed to be tainted. Makes me wonder what else the judge said or did or allowed that was prejudicial.

Obscene to some, not to others. In any event, free speech is free speech, obscenity laws are unconstitutional.

But I guess in America, the government decides what we can and can't watch in the privacy of our own homes.

The difference is in the movies it's part of the story line and it's "acting". They aren't really puking on anyone, pissing on anyone or blowing anyone's heads up. It's all fake. While it might be gross it's still fake and done with a story line. So they can claim there is artistic value to the scene.

Max HC shit is real no pun intended. There is no story line and he can't claim there is any artistic value too the scenes. Why do you think porn in the 70's and 80's always had bad acting and story lines? Why is it nude theaters would go to the lame plays in the nude to get around the laws?

Why? because they could claim there was artistic value to it and beat the obscenity laws. Porn these days is just straight out fucking most of the time, because the law has been a lot more lax and the bar had been pushed back quite away so everyone felt safe.

However, you just can't keep pushing and pushing and then be surprised when it pushes back. There is a limit when you are judged by community standards. If you are pushing the limits you damn sure better be able to show it has artistic value.. something it seems Max HC couldn't do..

I just also seem to notice that his titles seem to move a whole fucking lot of units and that must say something about the people and the communities.

I see the morally superior pornographers are out in full force on this one. Why am I not surprised?

To me, it's like this. Max pissing in a girl's mouth, displayed on a billboard in the middle of town. That's obscene.
Max pissing in a girl's mouth, recorded on DVD, and shipped in a plain brown wrapper to someone who specifically requested that material and paid money for it, is free expression.

If you can't make that distinction, then you're not intelligent enough to understand the rest of this post, so please put me on ignore right now.

All freedoms come with a price.
Extreme pornography is the inevitable consequence of the free expression clause, the same way Scientology or the Branch Davidians are the inevitable consequence of the free exercise clause, the same way that the National Enquirer is the inevitable consequence of a free press, the same way that the Montana Militia Men are the inevitable consequence of the 2nd amendment.

Max Hardcore hasn't made your life harder anymore than the Jehovah's Witnesses have made life harder for Catholics. (Many communities directed laws against the Witnesses and many court battles ensued, but it didn't make it harder for anyone else to practice their religion)
The National Enquirer's constant publication of erroneous reports doesn't hurt the New York Times.
The Montana Militia Men don't make it harder for you to own a shotgun.

If there is any place where there should be a wholehearted embrace of the 1st amendment it should be here. Free expression can't just apply to things you like or things that don't offend you, it HAS TO apply to things that make you sick to your stomach or else it isn't really freedom.

Those of you who say Max was "asking for it" are delusional. "Asking for it" would be pissing in a girl's mouth in the middle of Times Square. He filmed sex acts (granted, deviant sex acts by almost anyone's standards) between consenting adults, and sold copies of the film to other adults who specifically requested it. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

Televangelists make me sick to my stomach. I want to puke every time they speak in tongues or plant a staff member in a wheelchair so they can "heal them" or say that god's blessing awaits you if you just send money to their ministry.
I would rather watch 10 straight hours of Max taking a shit than 10 minutes of a televangelist.
Just because they offend me doesn't mean they don't have the right to do what they do. (They, by the way, do it in the middle of Times Square) Their offensiveness is even more egregious, because they specifically target their speech at people who don't wish to hear it, rather than limiting it to people who request it. Yet their rights are sacrosanct, and Max apparently has no rights.

Stick that in your irony pipe and smoke it.

Pretty much agree with everything you said.. People think just because they can do it that it's legal. Umm hello porn producers.. You should all know that you have to be able to prove your work has some sort of artistic value.

Have you never seen Jackass?

jesus, do you ever stop arguing about tedious shit just to argue?

as with everyone else, you know damn well what I meant

People like you shouldn't be in this industry, but selling bibles to the inbreds of the trailer parks.

I've done just fine in this industry for the last 12 years without feeling the need to tempt the hand of fate.. I'm not that greedy..

The envelop you pushed was nothing compared to the current issue... even for that time.

When something gets pushed too far a line must be drawn. Perhaps you think snuff films should fall under freedom of expression as well..

Now I must get back to selling my bibles.