Why do people put affiliate reps on pedestals?

I was referring to a guy who likes to give away fleshlights and party a lot.

a rep is only as good as his or her contact book and ability to close deals

Interesting thread Alky. First and foremost, I think one needs to define "sales rep." My assumption is that the interpretation of a "sales rep" by definition in this thread is as follows: Post on boards, answers webmaster inquisitions and attends some (or many) shows.

The "sales rep" as defined above generally makes very little money. Or makes decent money for short-stints of time, depending on your definition of "decent." Here is a good starting point for understanding the position of "sales rep."

-They think that because they are able to get a 2 page thread on GFY that they are somehow "the chosen one."

-They believe that the more boards they post on, they more valuable they are to a company.

-They believe they should not have to do anything other than support. In general, they should not be asked to do basic task that help the company.

-They believe they should be sent to all the major shows. When they get to the shows, they go looking for other jobs because they believe they are worth more money than what you are paying them. They make post on GFY about how something big is coming. In this industry, big = "I resign thread" followed by "Welcome Reggie" thread. Or in some cases, an "I resign or retire thread" whereas they they state they are leaving forever, yet show up again in less than 24 hours because they figured out that "real world companies" make you work!

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Wegcash doesn't hire this type and we have cleansed our system of it. That is not to say that other programs that allow room for these type of people are unsuccessful, more just a "to each their own" creed.

People who work here are expected to be more than just a sales rep, as we are highly focused on the product and all it's intricacies. People, including myself, are expected to do whatever is needed to help. Everyone is a rep at the end of the day, owners included.

When I first started in this industry, I was paid $11 an hour. Times have certainly changed, as I ended up making money as a webmaster as well as making a very good salary at Weg; however looking back, that $11 an hour made me who I am today, I learned more in that one year than so many other years combined: I saw opportunity.

Now, try hiring a "sales rep" today. Things are different, they ask for overpaid salaries and travel expenses and god forbid you request a resume from them. And whatever you do, don't ask them to do work or to represent the company within a certain set of standards.

We don't need people that can post 25 times a day. We don't need people that "get views." We need people that are willing to contribute to our team. We need people that are willing to start at the bottom and prove something. Hell, if this is just about answering icqs and posting on boards, I can do that and still do my current job and I am fine with my current salary. : ) I certainly don't need to hire someone for that.

I don't have anyone in mind with this post. However, that said, I can name a couple of situations that this isn't about:

Any CCBill employee: They pretty much encompass what teamwork is about. They are professional and fun, intelligent, and seem to be happy and motivated. Weg bases a great deal of our staffing on their model, I have said this repeatedly. ICQ a CCBill employee and I promise the response will never be, "You need to icq XXXX, this isn't my job." You know why? Because they get up off their ass and go figure it out for you, or at the very least they set you up with who you need to deal with. Do you know how many times I icq a rep and they tell me they can't help? If I did that, I couldn't imagine the backlash.

Sherm: I don't know him well, but he always seems to have intelligent, helpful contributions. He seems to know what he is talking about and seems to have ambition.


Now, are any of the above a "sales rep?" Not by our industry definition (or the one I defined which I feel is consistent). However, look for companies to move towards this thinking: less people but more quality, more overall production towards the greater goal (including consumer side), more opportunity for that employee (salary, profit sharing, etc.). In the future, I predict you will see much less of these "sales reps" and many more people that can do a diversity of task and don't complain.

what he said, but i didn't feel like spelling out for people again.

good post corey.

Crap, now my ICQ is going to start lighting up again and I have to pick up the dogs from the groomers, take them to the vets, do homework and take and take a test I'm turning it off for the night.........

Thanks man, the only problem with post such as mine is that

A) People think I am talking about them

or

B) People think I am insulting the way other programs are ran.

Niether are true in the slightest.

hey now

Thanks for the words bro.. In this industry, very few affiliate managers can live up to be half the manager you are... and to get a complimtent from you is awesome.

As Rochard said, there are very few reps that know their stuff... I can count them on both hands. When you do find that rep, be sure that you work with him/her to maximize your hits. These people know what they're doing, and have a proven track record.

Why do successful affiliate managers who know how to generate traffic work for companies? Why not. It's a win/win situation in a lot of cases. A steady salary is guranteed to pay the bills, commissions is always nice, promises of partial ownership may be included and sometimes working with a great group of people just makes sense.

some may. if people read without reading into stuff, i don't think anyone would take it that way. if they do "whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"

when we bring someone in to "rep" i'll re-read this thread so i can get the vibe back in my head that reading this left.

i'm played out on doin it all. updates, processing, managing members area, all traffic deals, production, etc etc, gettin to be too much for me. i have a great support girl that handles all the emails and tickets and such, but with growing and with what we've got planned in the next few months, i'm glad this thread came up. good reference material.

word up.

They dont make a ton unless they have been around a long time.....although gods they may be, depending on how good they are.

Cory, thanks for the kind words, ill be sure to pass this on

simple, but good questions

I was wondering myself till I had few contacts with some of them (as affiliate) and I realized they do not offer any real value to aff.programs. Doesn't take much time for the mgt of the operation to figure this and take action.

In some cases an aff.program may use the name of a popular person as sales rep. to gain some attention, but this is a short-term attempt.

Yeah good post, Cory.

Why do I do affiliate support for 2 programs when I make 4 times my monthly salary with my own personal sales? I simply enjoy it. It fills up the day with something good and useful to do. Not a drama queen or a diva who needs attention, so you wont see me starting threads about how I stubbed my toe and took pics, or how so and so screwed such and such. Just fun to do job and the bit of steady income is nice if theres a slump in sales for a week.

I dont know how it works at other places, but I'm pretty sure it's a fairly unique situation. I think it's freeing though. Definitely something to be said for simple satisfaction when you can help someone out. Pay me for it? Cool, sign me up.

You can count the good ones on one hand.

me too, I probably make most of their yearly salaries in 1 month. shrug

No need for a pedestal, but no need to put us down. I'll gladly compare assets if that's what it comes down to.

This is a very interesting thread. I've always hated titles. "Sales rep", "Affiliate rep" etc. I think all detract from one's value inside and outside of adult. With it comes a bit of dogma that I have always found distasteful.

Speaking from a personal point of view (as a "rep"): I feel a lot of pressure in the position I'm in. On one hand, I have an obligation to my company to provide the best support possible to our affiliates, bring in new accounts, take care of existing accounts as well as see to some other *minor* webmaster duties as they come. On the other hand, I have this huge community I (especially considering my attendance at the last show) am inexorably tied to which demands quite a bit (as we all feel, I think) as far as what you contribute on a daily basis.

I have recieved some positive feedback about how I represent my company and the subject matter of my posts, but at times I feel like I'm constantly on the verge of taking a wrong step on this thin line.

That said, Cory's eloquent post hit home and stirred some fear in me. You never know how you look in other people's eyes and I hope that I will never be percieved in this light, and if I ever should be I hope someone will tell me!

I was a member of the adult community before I began to represent this company, and always will be even if anything should ever change.

I am very far from being on a pedestal, and hope to never be. I'd much rather be a pillar any day.

I think that is great and certainly worthy of a congratulations on success. I think however Sherm has brought up good points (some of which can be traced back to similar threads).

People make pretty sweeping assumptions about people that work for companies:

1) They only make money from that company.

2) They don't make very much money.

Both are 90 percent accurate. But not 100 percent accurate.

Also consider, many webmasters feel that making 25k with no benefits is better than working for a company. That is their perogative, but I would be unsatisfied with that. I would get a job at Wal-Mart and work my way up to manager before I would settle for the luxury of staying at home. (excluding foreign webmasters whereas the dollar goes farther, of course).

It is all perspective.

Well put... It's funny how many assumptions are made about affiliate managers... In fact, I know a few that make more than some owners.

Well you have to understand all the clueless newbs they talk to daily.........

I don't, in fact most reps I deal with rock

whats the high end salary you have seen reps making?

That's just the thing... In many cases, a salary might just be a piece of their income.

I don't get exact numbers from people, as it's none of my business. But if you look into a handful of reps, you'll notice that there's definitly some decent numbers being made.

im poor and i like it that way


yo

IMO, (which I would advise taking with a grain of salt):

The key is striving to take yourself to the next level without feeling that every time you breath, you should be compensated. Always remember, your value is always in your knowledge for later use, not that extra few thousand dollars a year. This business is in a state of consolidation, the need for people that don't want to take the extra task will be eliminated.

I think it is also important to understand that this, in some ways, is your education. Mainstream companies and adult companies both will need qualified candidates to assist with a diversity of tasks. College degrees do not exactly encompass those needs. The closer you work with your program, the greater your understanding of e-Com will be.

I have had the luxury of being in two very fortunate situations. One was Adult Check and the other is the current: Wegcash. Both successful programs at the time of my employment. Both allowed me opportunities at growing and learning more.

People on GFY tend to get "tunnel vision." Sure, success is in sending traffic, but at the same time traffic models are changing and the costs of doing that business is rising (attrition). The best thing anyone can do is absorb as much as they can while the opportunity exist.

That said, part of my deal with Weg (as expressed by me to them) is that I am a full part of our business. In other words, even if I am not in charge of certain aspects per se, I am given the opportunity to learn about it. One example is our banking relationships and processing, that is John's job to oversee, however he is extremely knowledgeable in the field and allows me the opportunity to learn more about it.

Even our Marketing is taken more serious than most people know. If you look at the history of our Marketing, you will see distinct campaigns. Our next marketing campaign will be very unique and based on actual marketing techniques used in mainstream. In other words, there isn't a part of our business that we don't strive to be the best in, and those are the type of people we want working here.

BTW Luv$, don't take my post as me talking down to you, or that I think I am an expert; neither are true in the slightest. I am just posting in freeform and your post inspired this post.

Great thread Alky.

Interesting to see what people say about reps and the generalizations they make. I think its a really hard job to do well - and I respect those who go above and beyond for their affiliates because they actually care about them as friends and want them to succeed.

this thread in no way is bashing any reps.. atleast from me. reps that know me will vouch for that..i would hope

oh i didnt mean that. It just interesting to read what people say about the job.

A lot of what this thread has pointed is: What IS an affiliate rep? If they truly wear the many hats as stated in many of the posts, then they should be making a lot more than most of the ones I know make. If they are just to be affilate reps only, you should be able to hire one from outside the biz and train them in a couple of weeks and pay them $30K a year and they'd be happy

Affiliate reps on the front line. If something they have ZERO control over happens, they still have to deal with the affiliate over it.

I was looking over the last conversation I had with Alky and it was a situation I had no control over, I tried to remedy and as far as I know, the problem was never resolved. This, of course, makes the rep look like shit, lol!

Bullshit - you look like shit on your own because people give you charity.

You've been stalking cory ever since you "left" wegcash. It's fucking pathetic...in all likelyhood you got your job out of pity and you'd sell what you know about peole and their traffic to the next bidder - even here you tried to find a new ass kissing job. No one in their right mind would send traffic to shit you're associated with...you'd give all the info you have to the next bidder for a job and some recognition beyond being worthless.

Make it on your own...you know the biggest traffic handlers you said - should be easy for someone so connected as you.

Oh aeon - I've missed you so much! And I also know the only reason you're standing up for Cory is because you and Dave are friends.

Where did I try to find a new job here? I have my freesites but I have ZERO interest in ever working for someone again w/in the adult biz. In fact, that's exactly why I said I was "retiring" so no one would offer me jobs. Unfortunately it didn't work. Amazingly, not only did some of my old customers offer me jobs, but also a former employer - go figure - guess there's just a shitload of charity going around

And here's a little secret for you: I have never used one single piece of information from WEG's database about ANYONE. Ever. I know exactly what you're referring to and I will tell you that the owner of another large company she had an account with gave me every single piece of info I had. Even Cory knows I've never given out or used any information culled from WEG's information.

However, the same cannot be said of other employees there. In fact, I'll try to find the email to back that up

I'm not sure what I should "make my own". So far this year I've made more money on my own projects than I did in the last 2 years combined. I'm happy

Also, if you'll notice, I responded here first, then Cory had to come and make his posts which obviously referenced me because I received comments from others about it referencing me. This isn't the first time he's done this. Who's stalking whom? ;)

Nah - it's because you're a deluded bitch...looking to ride the wave of sympathy and ass kissing. I've turned down more money than you've ever made. You can't ride the fact your kid off'd himself forever - no matter how harsh that is...the pity will end. It's brutal and I'm sorry it is...but it doesn't give you a free ticket.

That's just reality.

Again, where is this pity and charity I've receiving and continue to receive? I seem to be missing it.......most of the people I do business with don't even know about my son, but if I can make more money riding that wave of sympathy, you let me know about it, OK?

..................

Yo Smells, I made 6k the month, i got interviewed ....wait, i was a marketing manager with Adult, you must not be talking about...my bad

Whores that make their money plastering their hooch for any dork with a CC instead of turning tricks on the corner shouldn't interject.

you are my fav

i like to play jokes on reps that are new especially ones that
contact me icq and i'm already with their program . This happens
quite frequently
It is alot of fun , hope none take it personally .

I remember contacting Rocki with TCG about them sending us some more traffic. Then she pointed out they had about 100 different accounts under 100 or so different names and they were sending plenty o' traffic. Oops!

"The month I got interviewed" does not reflect an average. We're talking an average.

When are you going to announce the new gig?

You know, before I posted in this thread, I thought it would degenerate into a shitfight so thought twice.

Came back in and decided "fuck it".

Glad I did, this has been a most interesting thread on a number of levels.

Thanks Alky.

;-)

Could you please bring me some Tim Tams out of charity and sympathy?

CTB, I need your icq please.

Want to follow up on that discussion from Sleazy's dinner if possible.

293 070 684 mate.

Get me this time tomorrow.

Surf's up and a public holiday here today ;-)

We can also talk in Toronto on that and stuff John and I discussed.

An income level should not determine whether you get ambushed.....

also, how in the world would you know what I get paid..especially on average?

more importantly ...

why do you care?

TimTams are a given my dear.

I am not doing Toronto, my body needs a break

I will hit you up tomorrow.

Why not hire/fire reps for how much they make the company.

Hire 'X' rep this month.

See how much he makes next month and hire another person, 'Y'.

If 'Y' makes the company more $ then fire 'X'.

Next month hire 'Z' and if 'Z' makes more money, fire 'X'.

You can weed out the bad reps by this, no?

This puts pressure on the reps to make the company more money and not fool around. Is that stupid?