Photographers - Inside please - Umbrella discussion (exciting thread of the year!)

I hope u find your answer it would be interesting to know

the further your umbrella from the light source the more directed it will be, Also new Umbrella's are not very flattering because they are stark white. the older and dirtier they become to more of a flattering affect to models. I'd recommend using a soft box the rule there is the soft box should be twice the size of the subject you are shooting or there abouts.

If I use an umbrella I generally like the shoot through ones.

We've moved away from using umbrellas all the time...I'm a huge fan of the octagon softboxes. We still use umbrellas but only about as often as we bounce them as well. It depends on the location but 75% of the time we've got at least 2 softboxes going.

We shoot about 10 scenes a week for topbucks/pinkvisual and the softboxes have held up as well if not better than the umbrellas.

Good luck.

White ones that are transparent,

****** I don't always want light to contaminate the room, so I tend to use umbrellas with black on the outside. I prefer photographic white (or what ever they call it) I like a bit more snap, even the silver are nice to use, if the model has nice skin. the 'white' umbrellas are gonna give out light that's not at 56K, more like 44-48K so the light will be a bit 'yellow'. if you use those just use a custom WB

I just switched to a 48 inch white umbrella with a black back and it seems my photos have lost something. I was bouncing them before (only white) and of course a lot of the strobe would flash through the umbrella and around the room. Was that extra light really adding to my pic for more diffusion?

*** I prefer smaller umbrellas but then again I usually shoot close to ambient, while you said you shoot at night? you'll wanna pull through as much light as possible around to kill the deep black shadows. I would also recommend shooting at 160th at 400-500 asa/iso @ F5.6-F8. if you want mega snap shoot at F16-F22

Also, how much do you think it matters in regards to how far your umbrella is away from the actual light source? Meaning sliding the pole out further away from the bulb?

** the closer the source, the nicer the skin tones.

diggin this thread

very often use umbrellas, i never shoot through if i want a shoot thru effect then i use a soft box instead. use a silver lining for cooler light and a gold lining for warming effects (dont use a gold one on a very white person, will make them yellow)
the larger and the closer the light source is to the subject, the more diffused the light will be..ultimately a 12 ft octagon softbox would be cool.
sometimes try to shoot using only the reflector and you will see some great skin highlights but you will need other strobes to light the set.

octagon softboxes

I use everything.. Octa box strait on with umbrellas to highlight the set. Or buety dish strait on #10 honeycomb for a hair light and what ever i feel like for an edge light.

Porn is generally flat lighting. 3 4x6's or 3 5' octa box's or 3 umbrellas or any combinations there of will work well..



Or i will just use 6 kinos and 2 Nikon speed lights with a turbo pack. It comes down to what im feeling that day either way my work turns out really good. Its all about painting with light, and figuring out what brush im gonna use today. My clients have always been happy with my work no matter how i got the pick.

white ones are nice to shoot through..but i really don't use umbrellas much... I've seen people use the gold one for a nice effect.

Wow, some killer info in here so far. THANKS!!!!


Sounds like everyone is fond of the octagon softboxes.

That is interesting. Never heard that one.

Is there one brand better than the other for the octagons, or is it just one company that makes them?



Great info! Yes, I shoot mostly at night in usually smaller rooms. Given the geographical locations of where I shoot I'm really limited to the amount of gear I can move in and out of places and have it stripped down to 3 strobes. A main, a fill and if I have the room I will use a back light, though many times I can only use 2 lights based on the room size. True guerrilla shooting. lol



I'll play around with that, thanks!.



My god, I would love to have the luxury of being able to work with such a kit. Though of you who shoot in studios truly have it made. Just out of curiosity, what size a room would you work in to use 6 Kinoflows (I assume they are the large ones and not Divas) and your speed lights?

Keep this convo going! Bump for the good info.

Is this a real business thread? Holy hell...

I like to hold my umbrella directly over my head while precipitation is occurring. :-)

Octagon Boxes, Soft boxes, strip light boxes.

Depending on what your shooting you should really get away from umbrella's, they scatter light everywhere and in most cases overlight your subject. tooo many guys use too much light for a shadowless look, learn to use the black in pictures to give things a shape and a depth, that is the real key. Even though we use four speedetron boxes and usually 6-8 lights, I seperate all the settings to give me the perfect look. It just takes practice, but black is an importnat thing to learn to have in your pictures. Or you can just simply make them glow using a photoshop filter, which many of the non photographers use to give it a jerky look.

Compared to some of the pro shooters advice here, I'm just singing in the rain, but here goes anyway...



I've tried all kinds of variations over the years...softbox, reflectors, different kinds of gels and umbrellas. Since I am more concerned about video, I finally ended up shooting mostly with steady on quartz video lights bouncing the light off of two white non-opaque umbrellas (one for the fill and one high up for the hair), and then my key light shining straight through a white diffuser.

My life is much simpler now, since I hire better photographers than I am to shoot the stills with their equipment, while I focus on the video.

Lots of good input though - I'm bookmarking this thread...

ADG

I tend to use the 2 reflective 48 inch umbrellas for fill and I will use an octagon softbox for my keylight. (1000 watt monolight/strobe for each light) I leave the modeling lights off on my lights since they are 3200 k. I use a set of Kino flo Diva 400s as my modeling lights since they are 5600 k (daylight) this give the eyes more pop to the models eyes and they seem to glow.

If I am shooting glam I will create a rimlight with 2 strobes facing the models back in addition to the previous setup. This will give you that glam look that people like so much. Sometimes a hairlight boomed over the model is also very flattering this will make the hair shimmer in the light.

Reflective umbrellas can really soften the skin and hide imperfections if you use them correctly. Use them to fill the room with soft light then make the model pop with your key light.

Holy crap I actually got some good advice off of GFY. Someone throw in an I'd hit it for good measure. Just kidding guys, fantastic info!

http://www.juergenspecht.com/truestories/1/2/

what will they think of next ?

lots of different porn shooting styles using bounced light, and in general most (porn) shooters pay almost no attention to lighting, only to getting "the shot". with the advent of cheap, good quality digicams anyone can believe that they are a "photographer". truth is pix of naked girls will always sell (a little bit) but where the rubber meets the road is if the shooter can actually sell his photography to mainstream clients, and only 1 in 100 porn shooters could do that IMO.

the most common porn shoot is what i call the "dental office" over lit scene shot with way too much light which necessitates high DOF so you get all sorts of extraneous visual clutter in the image.

you know shooting a crotch shot and lighting it like it is a hubcap. no fucking mystery or beauty, not elevating to the feminine spirit and not making anyone's dick hard.

this use of too much light makes the scenes very flat, without emotion, because in reality people don't fuck much in dental office lighting. this is the lighting most "content producers" shoot in, and the reason most of the content guys can't pay the rent---the shit does not give anyone a hardon and stopped converting about 1997.

you need a minimum use of directed bounced light to create the "moody" look of erotica.

you should blur out extraneous images (model skin defects, stretch marks, tacky furniture, etc) using minimum DOF and bounced light to try to simulate the look of ambiant or moody "fucking" light if you want highest conversions.

this does not require tricky hardware, lighting is physics, and if you have a sense of aesthetics you can create good work. if you don't have an aesthetics sense all the high end lighting hardware won't do you much good. i usually use 2 calumet umbrellas and vary position and spacing and do flash testing at various f/stops to remove or blur distracting stuff using the light to direct the viewer's eyes to the important parts of the image---you must always do this if you are shooting on location because there will always be some tacky pier one night stand in the room, etc., but if you DO shoot this way you can create captivating shots in any environment that will sell today and 10 years from now. if you don't do this your good work will have a short shelf live and become "dated" because it will suffer the vagaries of "fashion" because you will include all the extraneous stuff in the shot that will "date" the shot.

i'm talking about a shooting philosophy or style, not about hardware, because the truth is, lots of hardware can accomplish what i'm talking about. basically you must bounce the light if you want the people to be attractive, and using reflectors and natural light or umbrellas and artificial light, etc. you can color or modify the light a bit with gold or silver reflectors but it is unnecessary to get too gimmicky for good conversions. you should use the light to create emotion and sell the product, and develop your own unique style do it. you should understand the difference between a good shot and a mediocre shot and never let a mediocre shot see the light of day, that is the mark of the pro. quantity does not = quality. getting the girl naked is not enough today.

my speedotron powerpacks have been all over the world and we're converted to work either 110 or 220 volts. i favor shooting in a "subdued" lighting set.

plus if you shoot in subdued light the model's pupils will open up which gives a very beautiful glamour look when she looks into the lens. IMO you should always shoot smut in low light just for this purpose, it gives a high fashion, elegant look to porn, and makes hardcore look beautiful and less exploitative. now go look at a victoria secret catalog to get the idea.

Yea.. i have hated umbrella for years... I will post more later.. but they are just not a very good way of controling light.

softbox / octa are better..


i will see if I can pull up an example in a bit

Someone said way up in the beginning that it's all about the resources and painting with light.... what do you feel like shooting with today?

Umbrellas, reflectors, ringlights, Kino's, boxes, octagons, etc, etc... I shoot with them all and it just depends on how I feel that day. Often, the speedlight and a wireless transmitter can make a great shot. Other days, you whip out all 15 lights and have fun playing like you are a Playboy photographer. (we heard the record at Playboy was like 55 lights.. damn!!)

Lights and shaping tools are resources.. nothing more. You can watch another photographer shoot and reproduce his setup and still not have a clue what you are doing.. or you can fuck around with your tools and learn them better than anyone else knows them. Then you become skilled.

I don't like umbrellas most of the time, but they travel better than a beauty dish and are easier to setup than a soft box. In a pinch or a time crunch, that umbrella pops up and connects quickly. The light will be a little more harsh than a softbox, but that can be compensated for by placing it closer to the subject.

Jay... why turn off your modeling lamps? Your strobes are much more powerful than the modeling lamps ever could be. Their color would be negligible if any. But then again, I do the Kino for focusing and catchlight trick as well.

You mean like Paul Markham's stuff right?

All I am going to say is that Umbrellas are terrible. Its about the worst, amateur type of light source. Unless you want to look amateur I never use them ever.

soft box man.... all the way..... Umbrellas are great if 6 feet over head...... but in front..... soft boxes.

i don't use any umbrellas... just softboxes, but then again HD video is my main focus, not stills

There are pros in mainsteam that use umbrella's, its the person who makes a picture look amateur not the equipment.

well, momma always told me if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all

but i see at least one shooter has an understanding of the surfer's mindset:
http://www.nastysologirls.com/free_preview.php

and this is the antithesis of the "Paul Markham" style.

to the point, cropped correctly, ONLY the important parts of the shot are shown to the surfer, fairly ordinary girls, beautifully shot in ways that separate the surfer from his coin.

in the smut business you have a nanosecond to stop a guy in his tracks, you must get the CC out of the wanker's pocket right now, and that means not wasting the modeling fee by shooting images that lack imagination, and then you must know how to edit so you don't put throwaway images on a tour.

of course this is not the only type of stuff that converts, MetArt converts also, but images must get the heart pumping, because without that no $ changes hands.

this discussion goes beyond lighting, it deals with psychology and empathy for the surfer and an understanding of niches.

no time now, that is a college level course.

this is a print ad shot for korg with a umbrella. http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/?s=umbrella

Lamp Switch... and the 5 C's

I run between 2k and 4k for shoots unless I am in a really brightly lit area. Key is changing your bulbs between pix and video... blue bulbs for pix to video white....

Nice octagons with soft-white or silver gel covers have served me well..

SPyder-lites are cool and there are some nice small kits that dont give the doctors office feel. I find the best solution is for the model, especially newbs to be comfortable in the light and not obsessed with my setup because it is huge.... I light to get my image...

Big huge deflectors in gold and silver are nice if you can get a good light bounce. You can tap one into a wall or corner and bounce a nice 1k off it... play with the angles and the models positioning

Best advice is get a decent set up you can travel around with and experiment with it...

There is also an excellent book I picked up from a gaffer on the set of some tv show (back when I worked in tv) - called "The 5 C's of Cinematography" well worth the bucks....less than 30$

good book but dry.

BMBradley pretty much hit it on the head.

as a rule of thumb the diffiused light through or off of a white umbrella will soften your picture ( make it less sharp ) while a silver umbrella will give off more spectral light (sharper). If you really want to see the difference shoot water droplets like rain at a fast shutter speed using both.

I assume you know why and when to use umbrellas or any diffusion.

Aother thing you may want to consider is your aperture, while it does control your depth of field it can also be problematic in terms of sharpness.

consider even a high dollar F2.8 APO 70-200MM lens

that F2.8 at 200mm will give you some very pleasing depth of field for portrait photography but thet aperture will be drastically softer in terms of picture quality than if you shot it at F8.

for the best sharpness and detail you always want to use the middle aperture range of your lens usually F8-F11

even a pricey lens shot at the widest (or narrowest) aperture will not have the quality of a n inexpensive lens shot at its mid range.

many people mistakenly believe that the quality of the lens alone is responsible for the sharpness but thats simply wrong.

What all this means is...make sure your diffused lighting is using the aperture that would correspond with the picture quality you want.

The modeling lamps make the model look yellow. The pics seem to match the vids better as well since I shoot all my video with kino flos.

http://www.studiolighting.net/what-is-a-softbox/

I would like to see a few of your photos if you don't mind.

I generally use a key camera right, kicker camera left and a BG light where ever I need it if the kicker won't cover it. example:

what shows did you work?

Some of the best photographers use the most simple of setups. I sat in on an Earl Miller shoot recently and he had one reflective umbrella as a key light and two back rimlights that made the model pop and lit the background. This guy has shot everyone in the biz and still uses a very simple lighting technique that works very well. I definitely learned a couple of things hanging out with the ole pioneer.

Earl also used the Kino Flo Diva 400s for video the same lights I have.

There is a lot of really good information in this thread, but also a lot of bullshit and bad information.
As with anything you learn from experience, each time you turn on those lights hopefully you experiment a little and put some of that knowledge to good use next time you are in a situation where you can use that bit of information.
Truth is there is never really one set up works for all unless you have a traditional studio.
Many of us shooters use a different location every day and thus have to set up lights specifically for that set at that location, and often clients have different requirements.
Good example of this is Barely Legal, the magazine.. the want the entire model in focus, so that the eyes and the pussy are both in focus looking sharp... well you have to light the set accordingly and shoot at ISO 11 or therabouts depending your glass.. but many glamour sites want a shallow depth of field and then you can shoot at 5.6 and create some nice 3d effects with shadows and highlights etc.
Great thread btw, if there is one thread for a photographer to bookmark, this would be the one..
workshops are great also.. highly recommend gping to workshops on lighting, you learn 10 times more then your own experimenting and you get new inspirations..

Great post ..

Power beautiful still lifes


This model is very nice photograph still lifes with the girl.
The composition and lighting are like me and my vyladěném in color (not the exact word in the dictionary) EIZO xxIPS panel and the main (still ;-) CRT 24 "monitor SONY (but it is more appropriate for work / CAD-CAM, HTML ... / than directly tuning color) is the setting of my job monitors to 6000 ° Kelvin outcome from my point of view, very decent. (second monitor Eizo I did not follow. This is rather a secondary - supporting a longer period without reconciliation colours ... ICM profile probe).
This artistic act is about much closer to me than the hard pornography that is there to GOFu much more.
I have this thread read your expertise in more detail later.
I work more with the technical photographs, retouching ... lighting, and there is not as sensitive as in this case, which must be much higher standard tune such as lighting, background and, for example shade of human skin in the model.
I wish you much success in your professional work.
My first impression is that there is much more professional ... than normal (often amateur-porno ;-) photographers on the other fibers. Many of them here published photos of pornography are the normal instant photograph of cheap compact camera, the "adult home videos ..." ;-)
Nice day
Zdenek Svoboda
Czech Republic

So fucking bookmarked - Great Thread, where do I send the thai tranny hoookers DWB?

Hey.... A few, Crossing Jordan, West Wing, Providence - movies too. I was working on a pilot at Paramount when a buddy who knew I was looking to make some extra money turned me on to this scene... Never been happier, as expected. LOL