Obama Just Knocked It Out Of The Park

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  • Libertine
    sex dwarf
    • May 2002
    • 17860
    #76
    Originally posted by CosmicTang
    I disagree. Motivating a generation to get involved is huge no matter what the outcome. Many might stay involved long past this election cycle. That's even bigger.
    Obama is getting people interested in politics for all the wrong reasons. Campaigns like his, which excel in marketing but lack in substance, change the political arena into something like "American Idol: The Political Edition".

    People are choosing an idol, not policies. The success of this campaign will both stimulate future politicians to do the same and teach voters to expect inspirational talks rather than sound policies.

    Of course, this is a process which started a long time ago, and has been accelerating ever since television became prominent as a political campaigning tool. Still, it's hardly something to be happy about.
    /(bb|[^b]{2})/

      Comment

      • baddog
        So Fucking Banned
        • Apr 2001
        • 107089
        #77
        Originally posted by TheSenator
        Baddog is old skweel and would never understand.


        I rather be inspired and believe.
        You are clueless. I have been political before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.

          Comment

          • Libertine
            sex dwarf
            • May 2002
            • 17860
            #78
            Originally posted by Mike33
            Time constraints essentially prohibit this. Presidents and candidates can't spend days ironing out speeches while campaigning, or reviewing legislation, or meeting with public figures, and flying all over the world etc. The days of Lincoln in the 19th century when politics was slower and there was no mass media are long gone and have been for decades now.
            Candidates still have the option of acquiring a strong legislative record and extensive knowledge of the most important political issues before deciding to run for president.

            Obama, however, clearly chose another path.
            /(bb|[^b]{2})/

              Comment

              • Drake
                Hello world!
                • Mar 2003
                • 12508
                #79
                Originally posted by Libertine
                Obama is getting people interested in politics for all the wrong reasons. Campaigns like his, which excel in marketing but lack in substance, change the political arena into something like "American Idol: The Political Edition".

                People are choosing an idol, not policies. The success of this campaign will both stimulate future politicians to do the same and teach voters to expect inspirational talks rather than sound policies.

                Of course, this is a process which started a long time ago, and has been accelerating ever since television became prominent as a political campaigning tool. Still, it's hardly something to be happy about.
                False, people are choosing based on character and policies. Obama and Clinton are virtually identical in policies (the substance), so what people are doing is choosing between the person they like better or feel will live up to their promises (the character).

                  Comment

                  • Drake
                    Hello world!
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 12508
                    #80
                    Originally posted by Libertine
                    Candidates still have the option of acquiring a strong legislative record and extensive knowledge of the most important political issues before deciding to run for president.

                    Obama, however, clearly chose another path.
                    It's not rocket science, and a guy from a broken home who was able to excel and obtain a law degree from Harvard and become a Senator can probably handle it. If his heart is in the right place (those who know him personally probably have insight), and his speeches express what he really believes, and his political track record (albeit short) is consistent with both, and he's running against a polarizing candidate (Hillary) and a stay-the-course candidate (McCain), I see no reason why he shouldn't run.

                      Comment

                      • escorpio
                        I love to racism, bro!
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 23487
                        #81
                        Originally posted by Mike33
                        ...he's running against a polarizing candidate (Hillary)
                        Obama is also a polarizing candidate and if elected would easily be the most polarizing president we've ever had.
                        Unvaxxed, still alive.

                          Comment

                          • Libertine
                            sex dwarf
                            • May 2002
                            • 17860
                            #82
                            Originally posted by Mike33
                            False, people are choosing based on character and policies. Obama and Clinton are virtually identical in policies (the substance), so what people are doing is choosing between the person they like better or feel will live up to their promises (the character).
                            They are choosing based on perceived character, yes. And indeed, they are much alike in policies.

                            The main difference lies in something that is another rather important part of substance, though: time spent acquiring political experience and knowledge.

                            Hillary spent her time in the Senate buried to the neck in legislative issues - doing the work senators are supposed to do. Obama, on the other hand, spent his time in the Senate working on his public image, basically campaigning for an eventual presidential bid already.

                            You are right. People are choosing which person they like better. Just like many people did in the 2000 election.
                            /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                              Comment

                              • Libertine
                                sex dwarf
                                • May 2002
                                • 17860
                                #83
                                Originally posted by Mike33
                                It's not rocket science, and a guy from a broken home who was able to excel and obtain a law degree from Harvard and become a Senator can probably handle it. If his heart is in the right place (those who know him personally probably have insight), and his speeches express what he really believes, and his political track record (albeit short) is consistent with both, and he's running against a polarizing candidate (Hillary) and a stay-the-course candidate (McCain), I see no reason why he shouldn't run.
                                No, it's not rocket science. I'd say it's quite a bit harder than rocket science. Rocket scientists, after all, tend to have extensive knowledge of a single subject. Presidents, on the other hand, have to be knowledgeable about economics, international relations, legislation, etc.

                                "It's not rocket science, he can probably handle it." Does that really sound like a good justification for making someone the single most powerful person in the whole world to you?
                                /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                  Comment

                                  • Drake
                                    Hello world!
                                    • Mar 2003
                                    • 12508
                                    #84
                                    Originally posted by escorpio
                                    Obama is also a polarizing candidate and if elected would easily be the most polarizing president we've ever had.
                                    Lincoln is probably the most polarizing president we've ever had. He oversaw a bloody civil war.

                                      Comment

                                      • Drake
                                        Hello world!
                                        • Mar 2003
                                        • 12508
                                        #85
                                        Originally posted by Libertine
                                        They are choosing based on perceived character, yes. And indeed, they are much alike in policies.

                                        The main difference lies in something that is another rather important part of substance, though: time spent acquiring political experience and knowledge.

                                        Hillary spent her time in the Senate buried to the neck in legislative issues - doing the work senators are supposed to do. Obama, on the other hand, spent his time in the Senate working on his public image, basically campaigning for an eventual presidential bid already.

                                        You are right. People are choosing which person they like better. Just like many people did in the 2000 election.
                                        Experience is only worthwhile if one learns from it. Bush has had plenty of political experience and where has it gotten the nation?

                                          Comment

                                          • tony299
                                            lurker
                                            • Aug 2002
                                            • 57021
                                            #86
                                            Originally posted by baddog
                                            Precisely why McCain has this won.
                                            if they economy is in the toilet,he wont win.Also we keep forgetting the gunsights havent really been aimed at him yet.

                                              Comment

                                              • Drake
                                                Hello world!
                                                • Mar 2003
                                                • 12508
                                                #87
                                                Originally posted by Libertine
                                                No, it's not rocket science. I'd say it's quite a bit harder than rocket science. Rocket scientists, after all, tend to have extensive knowledge of a single subject. Presidents, on the other hand, have to be knowledgeable about economics, international relations, legislation, etc.

                                                "It's not rocket science, he can probably handle it." Does that really sound like a good justification for making someone the single most powerful person in the whole world to you?
                                                That's what advisors are for. A President is not an island. The President's vision, beliefs, and judgement are what guides which policies and actions he is likely to take. He has credentialed people around him giving him the pros and cons of every decision, he weighs it, puts in his two cents worth, and goes with what is consistent with his beliefs. Regarding Obama in particular, his plans for the economy, international relations, and legislation are all available just like it is for every other candidate.

                                                The single most powerful person is a double edged sword because that power has checks and balances and can be vetoed.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Libertine
                                                    sex dwarf
                                                    • May 2002
                                                    • 17860
                                                    #88
                                                    Originally posted by Mike33
                                                    Experience is only worthwhile if one learns from it. Bush has had plenty of political experience and where has it gotten the nation?
                                                    Bush was voted in based on the idea, among many, that he was a likable guy, that the job wasn't rocket science, and that he could probably handle it. Now where have I heard that before?

                                                    Obama has chosen not to spend his time in the Senate learning the boring, technical details of legislation, but rather building up his own popularity. That does not bode well for his desire and ability to learn.
                                                    /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                      Comment

                                                      • escorpio
                                                        I love to racism, bro!
                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                        • 23487
                                                        #89
                                                        Originally posted by Mike33
                                                        Lincoln is probably the most polarizing president we've ever had. He oversaw a bloody civil war.
                                                        I'm afraid Obama would give him some serious competition, if elected.
                                                        Unvaxxed, still alive.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Libertine
                                                            sex dwarf
                                                            • May 2002
                                                            • 17860
                                                            #90
                                                            Originally posted by Mike33
                                                            That's what advisors are for. A President is not an island. The President's vision, beliefs, and judgement are what guides which policies and actions he is likely to take. He has credentialed people around him giving him the pros and cons of every decision, he weighs it, puts in his two cents worth, and goes with what is consistent with his beliefs. Regarding Obama in particular, his plans for the economy, international relations, and legislation are all available just like it is for every other candidate.

                                                            The single most powerful person is a double edged sword because that power has checks and balances and can be vetoed.
                                                            That's what advisers are for, indeed. And how is someone who has not taken the effort to get to know the murky, boring, technical details of the issues supposed to choose the right advisers, and choose the right advice?

                                                            Obama is surrounded by competent people, yes. Those competent people will often give him conflicting advice. He doesn't actually have two cents to put in, so choosing the right advice over the wrong advice is a matter of sheer luck.

                                                            Once again: Bush. Bush had advisers, but little knowledge of his own. And look how well that turned out.
                                                            /(bb|[^b]{2})/

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