Is anyone actually surprised that Clemens will be named in the report?

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  • Cory W
    Deeply shallow
    • Jan 2004
    • 9133
    #1

    Is anyone actually surprised that Clemens will be named in the report?

    I mean, hasn't it been kind of obvious?
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    • LilBro
      #2
      roger clemens?

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        • Ramos
          Custom User Title
          • Dec 2004
          • 11927
          #3
          sxdx is in shock
          blewit.com - Performance & Pleasure Training For Men.

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            • Kevin Marx
              Confirmed User
              • Apr 2007
              • 1888
              #4
              What... you don't believe that a 45 year old guy with proper strength and conditioning regimens can get stronger and stronger as his career extends? I mean come on.. If Barry Bonds can hit 73 home runs when he was over 40 years old, why can't The Rocket still throw a fastball at over 95 without speculation of juicing???

              I mean it's not like there haven't been just a large number of guys historically that got better and better each year, especially over the age of 35. Heck.. They all had better and better career years once they got older!!!! Baseball is a game where you are at your best the older you get!!!

              Oh wait............. yeah, of course he did. And so did about 4-500 other guys that aren't named. The game is a farce anymore.
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                • Cory W
                  Deeply shallow
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 9133
                  #5
                  Originally posted by Ramos
                  sxdx is in shock
                  haha
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                    • Cory W
                      Deeply shallow
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 9133
                      #6
                      Originally posted by Kevin-SFBucks
                      What... you don't believe that a 45 year old guy with proper strength and conditioning regimens can get stronger and stronger as his career extends? I mean come on.. If Barry Bonds can hit 73 home runs when he was over 40 years old, why can't The Rocket still throw a fastball at over 95 without speculation of juicing???

                      I mean it's not like there haven't been just a large number of guys historically that got better and better each year, especially over the age of 35. Heck.. They all had better and better career years once they got older!!!! Baseball is a game where you are at your best the older you get!!!

                      Oh wait............. yeah, of course he did. And so did about 4-500 other guys that aren't named. The game is a farce anymore.
                      I almost hit the quote button before I got to your last sentence hahaha
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                        • L-Pink
                          working on my tan
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 39151
                          #7
                          Can you imagine how much better Babe Ruth would have been if he wasn't a fat alcoholic?

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                            • RP Fade
                              Confirmed User
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 3343
                              #8
                              Originally posted by L-Pink
                              Can you imagine how much better Babe Ruth would have been if he wasn't a fat alcoholic?
                              was thinking the same thing.
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                                • pocketkangaroo
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jan 2005
                                  • 8452
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by L-Pink
                                  Can you imagine how much better Babe Ruth would have been if he wasn't a fat alcoholic?
                                  Not really fair, remember Ruth didn't have to play against black or latino athletes.

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                                    • Mutt
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Sep 2002
                                      • 34431
                                      #10
                                      the whole investigation is a fucking joke - any half interested sports fan knows that more than half of baseball was on roids and everybody knew Clemens was juiced up. making the investigation even more useless is that George Mitchell is a director of the Boston Red Sox. Bud Selig is a moron - as if he couldn't found some respected ex-judge or ex-senator without any connections whatsoever to baseball.

                                      this is a nothing investigation - other than Clemens - that is going to spark a controversy because of the race card - Barry Bonds a black man may go to jail and if Clemens doesn't get the same treatment this is going to blow up into a race controversy bigtime.

                                      You can't clean up any of these sports - the chemists are always a few years ahead of the technology to detect.
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                                        • L-Pink
                                          working on my tan
                                          • Mar 2005
                                          • 39151
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by pocketkangaroo
                                          Not really fair, remember Ruth didn't have to play against black or latino athletes.
                                          MLB is only 8% black, hard to believe huh?

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                                            • WebairGerard
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Sep 2005
                                              • 8113
                                              #12
                                              I am surprised by Clemens only because he has long had the reputation of training harder then everyone else all year long. Maybe he went this route later in his career? Either way a black eye for him and baseball.

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                                                • L-Pink
                                                  working on my tan
                                                  • Mar 2005
                                                  • 39151
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by RP Fade
                                                  was thinking the same thing.
                                                  Or smoking, photo is Roger Maris relaxing during his record

                                                  season

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                                                    • L-Pink
                                                      working on my tan
                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                      • 39151
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by WebairGerard
                                                      I am surprised by Clemens only because he has long had the reputation of training harder then everyone else all year long. Maybe he went this route later in his career? Either way a black eye for him and baseball.
                                                      A lot was probably injury related. Not that that is an excuse.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • howard
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Feb 2002
                                                          • 1827
                                                          #15
                                                          I finally figured out in PHILLY why we never win.....no 1 cheats---watch not 1 phillies ball player will be one there---Id buy the roids myself for them if it would make them win

                                                          point is ----who gives a fuck.......give me a winner and Ill could care less if taking it

                                                          Baseball did 6 billion---its not even the sport so much as the entertainment you get for your dollar ....most stadiums got decent food and beer and you sit outside and with all most stadiums newish its a nice family event...Baseball should just play dumb and keep its mouth shut...

                                                          Baseball was dieing years ago too...hell steroids helped the sport...
                                                          Last edited by howard; 12-13-2007, 09:44 AM.
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                                                            • Ramos
                                                              Custom User Title
                                                              • Dec 2004
                                                              • 11927
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by howard
                                                              I finally figured out in PHILLY why we never win.....no 1 cheats---watch not 1 phillies ball player will be one there---Id buy the roids myself for them if it would make them win

                                                              point is ----who gives a fuck.......give me a winner and Ill could care less if taking it

                                                              Baseball did 6 billion---its not even the sport so much as the entertainment you get for your dollar ....most stadiums got decent food and beer and you sit outside and with all most stadiums newish its a nice family event...Baseball should just play dumb and keep its mouth shut...
                                                              god bless Michael Jack Schmidt
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                                                                • howard
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Feb 2002
                                                                  • 1827
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by Ramos
                                                                  god bless Michael Jack Schmidt
                                                                  its been 27 years since then---Im getting all grey and shit...LOL
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                                                                    • Cory W
                                                                      Deeply shallow
                                                                      • Jan 2004
                                                                      • 9133
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by WebairGerard
                                                                      I am surprised by Clemens only because he has long had the reputation of training harder then everyone else all year long. Maybe he went this route later in his career? Either way a black eye for him and baseball.
                                                                      Carl Malone, Dennis Rodman, these guys worked unbelievably hard. Neither could jump as high at 33. Malone changed his game around 35 due to limitations.

                                                                      He was still getting airlifted to mountains and running up them.
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                                                                        • L-Pink
                                                                          working on my tan
                                                                          • Mar 2005
                                                                          • 39151
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by WEG Cory
                                                                          Carl Malone, Dennis Rodman, these guys worked unbelievably hard. Neither could jump as high at 33. Malone changed his game around 35 due to limitations.

                                                                          He was still getting airlifted to mountains and running up them.
                                                                          Nolan Ryan played for 27 years.

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                                                                            • Rinaldo
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Sep 2003
                                                                              • 5086
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Michael Jordan on Steroids would have been playing to this day and scoring 45-60 points per game. I don't care if they found the need to cheat, they still cheated. How about Favre, I'd be shocked to see that he cheated he's noticeably older, his game is slower yet he's having one of the best seasons of his life and it's Football, far more demanding than Baseball. He's doing it clean !
                                                                              I think Baseball is a bunch of over paid cowards that think they need to cheat. Those of you that say "whatever it takes to make it" fuck you. How many guys have scammed credit cards or shaved to make an extra dollar In this business? We crucify them and out them immediately for all to see.You'd hang anyone that was ousted for doing something illegal or "cheating" yet because it doesn't effect you because it's a sport you don't care.

                                                                              We've all had the opportunity to cheat, not pay taxes, scam, fraud people, Lie. Yet it's still wrong and that's why we avoid doing it.

                                                                              Shame on you. Cheating is cheating, Period.

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                                                                                • L-Pink
                                                                                  working on my tan
                                                                                  • Mar 2005
                                                                                  • 39151
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by Rinaldo
                                                                                  Michael Jordan on Steroids would have been playing to this day and scoring 45-60 points per game. I don't care if they found the need to cheat, they still cheated. How about Favre, I'd be shocked to see that he cheated he's noticeably older, his game is slower yet he's having one of the best seasons of his life and it's Football, far more demanding than Baseball. He's doing it clean !
                                                                                  I think Baseball is a bunch of over paid cowards that think they need to cheat. Those of you that say "whatever it takes to make it" fuck you. How many guys have scammed credit cards or shaved to make an extra dollar In this business? We crucify them and out them immediately for all to see.You'd hang anyone that was ousted for doing something illegal or "cheating" yet because it doesn't effect you because it's a sport you don't care.

                                                                                  We've all had the opportunity to cheat, not pay taxes, scam, fraud people, Lie. Yet it's still wrong and that's why we avoid doing it.

                                                                                  Shame on you. Cheating is cheating, Period.


                                                                                  Good points, I also hate when someone says, but it wasn't against baseball rules then. Well arson and armed robbery probably aren't covered in the rule book either ... but both are illegal as is steroid use on state and federal levels.


                                                                                  .

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                                                                                    • woj
                                                                                      <&(©¿©)&>
                                                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                                                      • 47880
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by Rinaldo
                                                                                      Michael Jordan on Steroids would have been playing to this day and scoring 45-60 points per game. I don't care if they found the need to cheat, they still cheated. How about Favre, I'd be shocked to see that he cheated he's noticeably older, his game is slower yet he's having one of the best seasons of his life and it's Football, far more demanding than Baseball. He's doing it clean !
                                                                                      I think Baseball is a bunch of over paid cowards that think they need to cheat. Those of you that say "whatever it takes to make it" fuck you. How many guys have scammed credit cards or shaved to make an extra dollar In this business? We crucify them and out them immediately for all to see.You'd hang anyone that was ousted for doing something illegal or "cheating" yet because it doesn't effect you because it's a sport you don't care.

                                                                                      We've all had the opportunity to cheat, not pay taxes, scam, fraud people, Lie. Yet it's still wrong and that's why we avoid doing it.

                                                                                      Shame on you. Cheating is cheating, Period.
                                                                                      There is no question that credit card fraud is wrong, program owners lose $$ from it...

                                                                                      with steroids there are no losers, and actually there may be winners, steroid users perform better and the games possibly become more entertaining as a result of it...and really no one takes these "sports" seriously, they are just forms of entertainment for the masses...

                                                                                      I think it's debatable whether steroid use is actually "wrong", especially when you look at baseball as an entertainment business rather than a "sport"
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                                                                                        • Rinaldo
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Sep 2003
                                                                                          • 5086
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by woj
                                                                                          There is no question that credit card fraud is wrong, program owners lose $$ from it...

                                                                                          with steroids there are no losers, and actually there may be winners, steroid users perform better and the games possibly become more entertaining as a result of it...and really no one takes these "sports" seriously, they are just forms of entertainment for the masses...

                                                                                          I think it's debatable whether steroid use is actually "wrong", especially when you look at baseball as an entertainment business rather than a "sport"
                                                                                          Is this an ethical issue or a legal issue? If it's a legal issue your argument still does not hold up. Steroid use is illegal unless it's prescribed by a doctor for legal reasons. Throwing faster or running further than someone else is not a legal reason.

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                                                                                            • L-Pink
                                                                                              working on my tan
                                                                                              • Mar 2005
                                                                                              • 39151
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Ok Clemens was named. Did he ever test positive or is it second hand accusations?

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                                                                                                • Jimmy Rock
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                                                                  • 3055
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Stats are all fucked up..There should be 2 seperate records these days, 1 for juicers and 1 for non

                                                                                                  Nolan Ryan never Juiced.............or did he?

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                                                                                                    • woj
                                                                                                      <&(©¿©)&>
                                                                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                                                                      • 47880
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Rinaldo
                                                                                                      Is this an ethical issue or a legal issue? If it's a legal issue your argument still does not hold up. Steroid use is illegal unless it's prescribed by a doctor for legal reasons. Throwing faster or running further than someone else is not a legal reason.
                                                                                                      I think it's an ethical issue. I'm not familiar with laws on steroid use, but I'm sure what is considered a "legal reason" is quite fuzzy. I'm sure a doctor could come up with dozens of valid reasons for using steroids. I don't really know what exactly happened here, but unless these guys were busted red-handed no one is going to jail over it. If someone could go to jail for failing a steroid test, someone could also in theory go to jail for failing a drug test?
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                                                                                                        • Ramos
                                                                                                          Custom User Title
                                                                                                          • Dec 2004
                                                                                                          • 11927
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by Jimmy Rock
                                                                                                          Stats are all fucked up..There should be 2 seperate records these days, 1 for juicers and 1 for non

                                                                                                          Nolan Ryan never Juiced.............or did he?

                                                                                                          if you consider getting the best of ventura juice, then hell yeh he juiced ;)
                                                                                                          Last edited by Ramos; 12-13-2007, 11:08 AM.
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                                                                                                            • mikeyddddd
                                                                                                              Viva la vulva!
                                                                                                              • Mar 2003
                                                                                                              • 16557
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              I just skimmed the report:

                                                                                                              Clemens, Bonds, Canseco, Caminiti, Dykstra, Wally Joyner, Juan Gonzalez, Ross Grimsley, David Segui, Paxton Crawford, Jason and Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Larry Bigbie, Jack Cust, Tim Laker, Josias Manzanillo, Mark Carreon, Todd Hundley, Hal Morris, Matt Franco, Rondell White, Chuck Knoblauch, Gregg Zaun, David Justice, Glenallen Hill, Mo Vaughn Denny Nagle, Ron Villone, Ryan Franklin, Todd Pratt, Kevin Young, Mike Lansing, Kent Mercker, Adam Piatt, Miguel Tejada, Mike Stanton, Jerry Hairston, Paul LoDuca, Adam Riggs, Fernando Vina, Kevin Brown, Eric Gagne, Mike Bell Gary Bennett, Brendan Donnelly, Chad Allen, Howie Clark, Rick Ankiel, David Bell, Paul Byrd, Jay Gibbons, Gary Matthews, Jr, John Rocker, Matt Williams... and more

                                                                                                              Several minor leaguers were named.

                                                                                                              Lawyers for Bonds, Palmeiro, Sosa and Sheffield did not respond to the committee's letters requesting info.

                                                                                                              Most of the report rehashed old stories.

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