Why Grapplers will beat strikers 9 outta 10 - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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#51

01-26-2006, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by chadglni

You have 0 clue what you are talking about. The guy wasn't "exhausted and harmless" he could have beaten every one of them one at a time in a row without being "exhausted and harmless".

I did some boxing.. when a guy start throwing punches with less power than my grand-mother could throw, that's a sure sign that the guy is exhausted... and the only reason he was still beating the crap out of the other guy is because the other was equaly exhausted... But you are free have fantasies..

As far as top boxers beating BJJ guys you are fucking lost. There is a reason boxers stay in the ring, with gloves and a ref. There is also a reason they can't kick, tackle, or anything else. Straight boxing is the pussiest of all fights and you try to compare them to MMA fighters?

wow, those are powerful arguments Case closed I guess

Oh.. and if Tank Abbot could beat some of the best MMA fighters.. A top boxer could do even better with a bit of training.... As far as I know, bjj guys also do some boxing training? I never implied that a boxer should just be thrown in a fight with a MMA fighter without proper training...

The debate here were striker agaisnt grapplers .. A boxer with some basic MMA training is still a striker...

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#52

01-26-2006, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by TheSenator

Just going with the new theme, "hump them into submission".

It is indeed a great line, it goes so well in so many different occasions

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dynastoned

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#53

01-26-2006, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

also, funny to see all those "gangsta" trying to seperate the 2 fighters and then pussying out after the kid on top, exhausted and harmless, screamed his rage...

lol yeah i caught that too, hilarious..
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#54

01-26-2006, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

I did some boxing.. when a guy start throwing punches with less power than my grand-mother could throw, that's a sure sign that the guy is exhausted... and the only reason he was still beating the crap out of the other guy is because the other was equaly exhausted... But you are free have fantasies..

Sorry bro, but doing some boxing does not make you an expert in fighting that you just watched in that clip.

The grappler wanted to keep on going, the striker quit. Plain and simple. Of course, he was about to get choked the fuck out.

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

Oh.. and if Tank Abbot could beat some of the best MMA fighters.. A top boxer could do even better with a bit of training.... As far as I know, bjj guys also do some boxing training? I never implied that a boxer should just be thrown in a fight with a MMA fighter without proper training...

The debate here were striker agaisnt grapplers .. A boxer with some basic MMA training is still a striker...

Please be so kind to post the TOP MMA guys that Tank beat. Thanks.

Last fight I watched him get his ass OMO PLATA'd (Shoulder Lock) and his ankle broken. He also didn't connect once, and limped out like a little girl.

Frank Mir Vs Tank Abbot.
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chadglni

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#55

01-26-2006, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

I did some boxing.. when a guy start throwing punches with less power than my grand-mother could throw, that's a sure sign that the guy is exhausted... and the only reason he was still beating the crap out of the other guy is because the other was equaly exhausted... But you are free have fantasies..

The guy was throwing weak punches from the beginning, he's a runt. You are completely clueless as to what you are talking about and I hope you run into someone skilled with BJJ one day so he can show you first hand. Really no other way to get it through someones thick skull, especially when they made sport of getting punched in the face 300 times for one fight.

Have you ever seen Gracie fight? The guy hardly ever looks like he's hurting someone yet he wins, and wins, and wins. You do know that's not all luck right? You do know they do train them to defend against MMA fighters right? You do know they can't defend against someone that fights much smarter than them without dedicated insane amounts of time to it right? Nah you don't, you said a few weeks of training would counter someone skilled.

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#56

01-26-2006, 08:49 AM

Tank Abbot has never beaten any TOP MMA GUY. Ever.

Loss Hidehiko Yoshida Submission (Choke) PRIDE-Final Conflict 2005 8/28/2005 1 7:40
Win Wesley Correira KO (Punch) ROTR 7-Rumble On The Rock 7 5/7/2005 1
Loss Wesley Correira TKO (Cut) UFC 45-Revolution 11/21/2003 1 2:14
Loss Kimo Leopoldo Submission (Arm Triangle Choke) UFC 43-Meltdown 6/6/2003 1 1:59
Loss Frank Mir Submission (Toe Hold) UFC 41-Onslaught 2/28/2003 1 0:46
Loss Pedro Rizzo KO UFC Brazil-Ultimate Brazil 10/16/1998 1 8:07
Win Hugo Duarte TKO (Strikes) UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 0:43
Win Yoji Anjo Decision UFC Japan-Ultimate Japan 1 12/21/1997 1 15:00
Loss Maurice Smith Submission (Strikes) UFC 15-Collision Course 10/17/1997 1 8:08
Loss Vitor Belfort TKO (Strikes) UFC 13-The Ultimate Force 5/30/1997 1 0:52
Loss Don Frye Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UU 96-Ultimate Ultimate 1996 12/7/1996 1 1:22
Win Steve Nelmark KO UU 96-Ultimate Ultimate 1996 12/7/1996 1 1:03
Win Cal Worsham Submission (Strikes) UU 96-Ultimate Ultimate 1996 12/7/1996 1 2:51
Loss Scott Ferrozzo Decision UFC 11-The Proving Ground 9/20/1996 1 15:00
Win Sam Adkins Submission (Neck Crank) UFC 11-The Proving Ground 9/20/1996 1 2:06
Loss Dan Severn Decision (Unanimous) UU 95-Ultimate Utlimate 1995 12/16/1995 1 18:00
Win Steve Jennum Submission (Neck Crank) UU 95-Ultimate Utlimate 1995 12/16/1995 1 1:14
Loss Oleg Taktarov Submission (Rear Naked Choke) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 17:45
Win Paul Varelans TKO (Strikes) UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 1:53
Win John Matua KO UFC 6-Clash of the Titans 7/14/1995 1 0:20
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#57

01-26-2006, 08:51 AM

I'd like to also correct my post about seeing the last loss by Tank. I did watch Yoshida choke the fuck outta Tank. About a 50lb weight difference as well.
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#58

01-26-2006, 08:54 AM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...42465&q=gracie

BJJ!!!

GRACIE JIU JITSU!
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#59

01-26-2006, 09:00 AM

I am happy that California has now allowed MMA. Can't wait to see Cesar Gracie vs. Frank Shamrock

BJJ RULES!

i luv mainstream
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xxxdesign-net

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#60

01-26-2006, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

Please be so kind to post the TOP MMA guys that Tank beat. Thanks.

Last fight I watched him get his ass OMO PLATA'd (Shoulder Lock) and his ankle broken. He also didn't connect once, and limped out like a little girl.

Frank Mir Vs Tank Abbot.

Well.. I thought he was a bit better.. just like you thought your boxer in the first UFC was better...

But lets be clear here... in term of boxing/striking abilities... Tank is a punk, a clown.. on a similar level as Butterbean... and just cannot be compared with the best boxers.. But it can give you an idea... that if a 4th rate boxer like Tank Abbot can last 8 minutes agaisnt Pedro Rizzo or 18 minutes agaisnt Dan Savern, than maybe a Floyd Mayweather can beat the shit out of a guy his own size 4 times out of 5...

We can argue for hours repeating the same things.. so lets agree to disagree...

Last edited by xxxdesign-net; 01-26-2006, 09:04 AM.
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Anthony

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#61

01-26-2006, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

Well.. I thought he was a bit better.. just like you thought your boxer in the first UFC was better...

But lets be clear here... in term of boxing/striking abilities... Tank is a punk, a clown.. on a similar level as Butterbean... and just cannot be compared with the best boxers.. But it can give you an idea... that if a 4th rate boxer like Tank Abbot can last 8 minutes agaisnt Pedro Rizzo, than maybe a Floyd Mayweather can beat the shit out of a guy his own size 4 times out of 5...

We can argue for hours repeating the same things.. so lets agree to disagree...

Bro,

Pedro Rizzo is a Muay Thai fighter, not a grappler.

Back then, you were one or the other. Nowadays, they all train the same. MMA.
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chadglni

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#62

01-26-2006, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...42465&q=gracie

BJJ!!!

GRACIE JIU JITSU!

Wow Gracie is such a pussy, did you see how exhausted he was? I could tell because he was barely hitting the guy.

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#63

01-26-2006, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by QuaWee

I am happy that California has now allowed MMA. Can't wait to see Cesar Gracie vs. Frank Shamrock

BJJ RULES!

Ahh, another brother! Shamrock has been talking so much mad shit over the years about this fight, I hope it happens soon!
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xxxdesign-net

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#64

01-26-2006, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

Bro,

Pedro Rizzo is a Muay Thai fighter, not a grappler.

Back then, you were one or the other. Nowadays, they all train the same. MMA.

I forgot to add 18 minutes against Dan Savern..
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#65

01-26-2006, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

I forgot to add 18 minutes against Dan Savern..

It shows you aren't a fan of the sport.

it lasted 18 minutes because Dan Severn didn't want to end it fast and wanted to punish Abbot.

It was very one sided, and Tank got the shit beat out of him.

At the interview after the fight, Severn admitted to letting it drag on to show that tank ain't shit.
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#66

01-26-2006, 10:31 AM

BJJ is like the gayest sport there is...

http://www.youtube.com/?v=yYMMKIlRNCQ

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#67

01-26-2006, 10:32 AM

not another one of these stupid threads.
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#68

01-26-2006, 10:40 AM

I just wish there were a BJJ trainer near where I live. I'd be on it. My friend, Dave, says it would be perfect for me.

Raven

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Anthony

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#69

01-26-2006, 10:45 AM

The kid who was doing the beating...

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endID=15874072

Trains in the following:

Wrestling, MUAY Thai Kickboxing, Gracie stlye Jiu-Jitsu, Miletich Fighting Systems. Juss about any sport I get to whoop ass. And I luv Submission fighting. I could make anybody tap out. I also like to play vidieo games and have fun.
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#70

01-26-2006, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

BJJ is like the gayest sport there is...

http://www.youtube.com/?v=yYMMKIlRNCQ

.
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It is. I'd imagine you'd be shitting yourself as you get choked the fuck out and wake up with something shoved up your ass.
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High Plains Drifter

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#71

01-26-2006, 10:53 AM

Lets take a look at the current champions from UFC and Pride and their strengths...

Pride HW: Fedor (Combat Sambo)
Pride MW: Silva (Muy Thai, some BJJ)
Pride WW: Henderson (wrestling, boxing)
Pride LW: Gomi (submission grappling, muy thai)
UFC HW: Arlovski (Sambo and boxing)
UFC LHW: Liddell (TKD, Muy Thai, wrestling)
UFC MW: Franklin (wrestling, muy thai)
UFC WW: Hughes (wrestling)

Where's the BJJ guys??
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#72

01-26-2006, 11:04 AM

And lets take a look at whether they are primarily a striker or grappler...

Pride HW: Fedor (equally both)
Pride MW: Silva (striker)
Pride WW: Henderson (both)
Pride LW: Gomi (used to be more of a grappler, now primarily a striker)
UFC HW: Arlovski (striker w/ strong grappling skills)
UFC LHW: Liddell (striker)
UFC MW: Franklin (striker)
UFC WW: Hughes (grappler)

Last edited by High Plains Drifter; 01-26-2006, 11:05 AM.
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Anthony

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#73

01-26-2006, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

Lets take a look at the current champions from UFC and Pride and their strengths...

Pride HW: Fedor (Combat Sambo)
Pride MW: Silva (Muy Thai, some BJJ)
Pride WW: Henderson (wrestling, boxing)
Pride LW: Gomi (submission grappling, muy thai)
UFC HW: Arlovski (Sambo and boxing)
UFC LHW: Liddell (TKD, Muy Thai, wrestling)
UFC MW: Franklin (wrestling, muy thai)
UFC WW: Hughes (wrestling)

Where's the BJJ guys??

You are on CRACK.

Sambo is grappling.

Silva is a BJJ Black Belt

Henderson trains with BJJ Coaches

Gomi is submission grappling, BJJ without GI is submission grappling.

Liddell is a purple belt in BJJ

Arlovski trainsi in BJJ and holds around blue belt last i heard.

Franklin trains BJJ, he trains with Jeremy Horn

I'm like losing it here, are all the detractors MORONS?! Everyone trains in BJJ/Submission, because it works. THAT'S WHY IT IS CALLED MIXED MARTIAL ARTS
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Anthony

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#74

01-26-2006, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

And lets take a look at whether they are primarily a striker or grappler...

Pride HW: Fedor (equally both)
Pride MW: Silva (striker)
Pride WW: Henderson (both)
Pride LW: Gomi (used to be more of a grappler, now primarily a striker)
UFC HW: Arlovski (striker w/ strong grappling skills)
UFC LHW: Liddell (striker)
UFC MW: Franklin (striker)
UFC WW: Hughes (grappler)

You're not very versed in the MMA game, are you?
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#75

01-26-2006, 11:21 AM

For a minuted there I was expecting someone to ring a bell. Was that supposed ot be organized fighting?? If so then therre are rules. If not, there are no rules, and it is a free for all.
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High Plains Drifter

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#76

01-26-2006, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

You're not very versed in the MMA game, are you?

Do you know what the word "primarily" means?
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High Plains Drifter

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#77

01-26-2006, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

You are on CRACK.

Sambo is grappling.

Grappling is one part of Combat Sambo.

Silva is a BJJ Black Belt

Most people believe he didn't deserve it.

Henderson trains with BJJ Coaches

So does Crocop. Doesn't mean that's his primary weapon.

Gomi is submission grappling, BJJ without GI is submission grappling.

Thanks for the newsflash. Gomi rarely uses grappling in his matches anymore.

Liddell is a purple belt in BJJ

Liddell hates going to the ground and tries to get up as soon as possible.

Arlovski trainsi in BJJ and holds around blue belt last i heard.

He still is primarily a striker.

Franklin trains BJJ, he trains with Jeremy Horn

Nobody said he didn't. He's still primarily a striker.
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#78

01-26-2006, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

Do you know what the word "primarily" means?

wth is your problem?

i luv mainstream
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Anthony

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#79

01-26-2006, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

Do you know what the word "primarily" means?

You are setting up a strawman, son.

BJJ RULES, everyone trains in it, so they can defend it.

End of story.

Nice try, though.

Not.
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High Plains Drifter

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#80

01-26-2006, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

You are setting up a strawman, son.

BJJ RULES, everyone trains in it, so they can defend it.

End of story.

Nice try, though.

Not.

Everyone trains in takedowns also. Doesn't mean it wins fights.
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#81

01-26-2006, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by EdgeXXX

Because they like to hump them into submission?
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Anthony

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#82

01-26-2006, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

Everyone trains in takedowns also. Doesn't mean it wins fights.

No logic whatsover in that.

Takedowns technique = Fighting System

Seriously, what have you been smoking?

BJJ has empirical data that shows that it wins fights. UFC 1 to 3 should be enough.
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#83

01-26-2006, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

No logic whatsover in that.

Takedowns technique = Fighting System

Seriously, what have you been smoking?

BJJ has empirical data that shows that it wins fights. UFC 1 to 3 should be enough.

UFC 1 through 3 was over a decade ago when people didn't know how to defend against BJJ.

BJJ/grappling is a large part of MMA. I will never dispute that. However a thread called "grapplers beat strikers 9 out 10 times" is misleading at best.
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#84

01-26-2006, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

UFC 1 through 3 was over a decade ago when people didn't know how to defend against BJJ.

BJJ/grappling is a large part of MMA. I will never dispute that. However a thread called "grapplers beat strikers 9 out 10 times" is misleading at best.

You are using MMA fighters as an example, which is stupid. They are no longer strikers, they are MIXED MARTIAL ARTS FIGHTERS. Get it in your head, the game has changed in 10 years, to what it is now. Stop being a moron.

Grapplers will beat Strikers 9 out 10, I say again, empirical data UFC 1 to 3. Empirical data cannot be disregarded whether it is 5 minutes old, or 100 years old.

Jesus, where did you learn how to debate? K-mart?
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#85

01-26-2006, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

I don't know if anyone cares or not...

ROYCE GRACIE will be fighitng the current UFC CHAMP MATT HUGHES next UFC!

Too bad Royce is a shell of his old self now, and would get ground and pounded.

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#86

01-26-2006, 11:51 AM

The best conditioning, strength and skills win fights. For instance, do you think a webmaster 60 pounds overweight with 3 years of BJJ would be a good match for a golden gloves light heavyweight in prime condition? Do you think our BJJ man would win 9/10 fights?

How about a striker with wrestling background and some BJJ training?. Is he going to lose 9/10 fights to pure BJJ everytime all the time?

BJJ sure seems to be a key component, but it's kind of ignorant to run around making blanket statements.

I wonder, can some of you experts, like PEI boy please post your professional records? Let me guess: 0 and 0?

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High Plains Drifter

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#87

01-26-2006, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

You are using MMA fighters as an example, which is stupid. They are no longer strikers, they are MIXED MARTIAL ARTS FIGHTERS. Get it in your head, the game has changed in 10 years, to what it is now. Stop being a moron.

Grapplers will beat Strikers 9 out 10, I say again, empirical data UFC 1 to 3. Empirical data cannot be disregarded whether it is 5 minutes old, or 100 years old.

Jesus, where did you learn how to debate? K-mart?

Royce Gracie had many Vale Tudo matches prior to UFC and was at that point a MMA fighter. In your own words, "your example is stupid."
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Anthony

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#88

01-26-2006, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

Royce Gracie had many Vale Tudo matches prior to UFC and was at that point a MMA fighter. In your own words, "your example is stupid."

VALE TUDO was created by BJJ, to showcase BJJ.

Not stupid at all.

Next argument.
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Anthony

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#89

01-26-2006, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by WarChild

The best conditioning, strength and skills win fights. For instance, do you think a webmaster 60 pounds overweight with 3 years of BJJ would be a good match for a golden gloves light heavyweight in prime condition? Do you think our BJJ man would win 9/10 fights?

How about a striker with wrestling background and some BJJ training?. Is he going to lose 9/10 fights to pure BJJ everytime all the time?

BJJ sure seems to be a key component, but it's kind of ignorant to run around making blanket statements.

I wonder, can some of you experts, like PEI boy please post your professional records? Let me guess: 0 and 0?

Depends, 3 years of BJJ current? Or past history BJJ? You are now building up a strawman arguement. My original and even current arguments have been professional. I'm being called on the carpet about it now by Skinnywussy.

There are too many variables to consider on a non professional fight to give a valid answer. When dealing with non professional fighters, don't worry about the fighting style, worry about the fighter. As fights at clubs, bars, etc. one won't have the foreknowledge of what they are up against.

I'd kick your ass for sure though, cause BJJ WINS!!!
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#90

01-26-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Anthony

VALE TUDO was created by BJJ, to showcase BJJ.

Not stupid at all.

Next argument.

Incorrect. Vale Tudo means no rules fighting. I believe that no rules fighting was around just a little bit longer than BJJ.
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#91

01-26-2006, 12:01 PM

Oh btw, I'm not a professional.

I have trained in the following.

Aikido, Goju, MT, Judo, GJJ/BJJ. Due to injuries, lately I've been training my right and left pointer fingers, on my FN FiveSeven
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#92

01-26-2006, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

Incorrect. Vale Tudo means no rules fighting. I believe that no rules fighting was around just a little bit longer than BJJ.

I believe you are incorrect, as VALE TUDO fighting that the was done in BRAZIL was created for the GRACIES to showcase GRACIE JIU JITSU.
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#93

01-26-2006, 12:16 PM

The problem with this fight was they were what, 80lbs? there are numerous striking methods that would literally decimate someone with one hit, one of the most simple is a 45/ degree anle hit to the tip of the mandible at full force, this will dislocate your jaw and knock you the fuck out, when you manage to come to you will have the wonderful taste of blood dripping down your throat and be in extreme pain.(and I hear sucking food through a tube is no fun) Also, a suto at full force to the side of your kneck where your corotid artery is, will cause hemmoraging and probably death. BJJ is a good method for incorporating into others like Da zhimmenge, guazo gonji, and san soo kung fu, but I would not use it exclusively as a self defense method.
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#94

01-26-2006, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Anthony

I believe you are incorrect, as VALE TUDO fighting that the was done in BRAZIL was created for the GRACIES to showcase GRACIE JIU JITSU.

Then you admit that Royce Gracie was a trained vale tudo (MMA) fighter prior to the UFC?
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#95

01-26-2006, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

Then you admit that Royce Gracie was a trained vale tudo (MMA) fighter prior to the UFC?

BJJ at the time, was MMA. It had kicks, punches, takedowns, and ground fighting.

MMA as it is now, has only been this way in the past 5 years. What Royce was then, was not MMA, it was GJJ or BJJ as it is known more as now.
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#96

01-26-2006, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by profligate

The problem with this fight was they were what, 80lbs? there are numerous striking methods that would literally decimate someone with one hit, one of the most simple is a 45/ degree anle hit to the tip of the mandible at full force, this will dislocate your jaw and knock you the fuck out, when you manage to come to you will have the wonderful taste of blood dripping down your throat and be in extreme pain.(and I hear sucking food through a tube is no fun) Also, a suto at full force to the side of your kneck where your corotid artery is, will cause hemmoraging and probably death. BJJ is a good method for incorporating into others like Da zhimmenge, guazo gonji, and san soo kung fu, but I would not use it exclusively as a self defense method.

Yeah. Okay.

Thanks.

Do you understand the training method, "Aliveness".

When you can pull that move you just posted, in an "alive" manner, then it's a worthy technique.

Let me also give you another term "Adrenal Dump". When you adrenal dump happens, your fine motor skills go out the window, doesn't matter how many years you have trained a movement. Your mandible breaking skills go out the window, in short.

Now, put those two together, and you have MMA.

Thanks.
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High Plains Drifter

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#97

01-26-2006, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Anthony

Grapplers will beat Strikers 9 out 10, I say again, empirical data UFC 1 to 3.

Originally posted by Anthony

BJJ at the time, was MMA. It had kicks, punches, takedowns, and ground fighting.

Originally posted by Anthony

You are using MMA fighters as an example, which is stupid.

I've forgot what were arguing about...
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Anthony

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#98

01-26-2006, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by skinnywussy

I've forgot what were arguing about...

Who cares. When you gonna be in florida? I'll buy the first couple of rounds!
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High Plains Drifter

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#99

01-26-2006, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Anthony

Who cares. When you gonna be in florida? I'll buy the first couple of rounds!

haha I was suppossed to be there today! I'll ring you up next time and we can split some more hairs on the grappling/striker debate.
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FelixFlow

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#100

01-26-2006, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Anthony

Do you understand the training method, "Aliveness".

When you can pull that move you just posted, in an "alive" manner, then it's a worthy technique.

Let me also give you another term "Adrenal Dump". When you adrenal dump happens, your fine motor skills go out the window, doesn't matter how many years you have trained a movement.

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