PATENT TROLL ALERT: attention affiliate programs

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  • FightThisPatent
    Confirmed User
    • Aug 2003
    • 4090
    #101
    Originally posted by AlienQ
    Umm Yes.

    the World Wide Web is not the internet... the HTTP protocols ride ontop of the internet backbone. FTP, WAIS, etc protocols ride ontop of the internet, accessing via TCP/IP. The internet was around before WWW, which popped up commercially around 1994, whereas the internet/arpanet have been around for much longer.


    Fight the history lesson!

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      • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
        best designer on GFY
        • Mar 2003
        • 30307
        #102
        Well what I am trying to describe though is that to break that Patent one has to look at the mechanics of original concepts that were never intended in application of ecommerce.

        Goto remember that Ecommerce did not create the internet. The internet was founded off principals of government Computer Scientists establishing means of communications and its needs within the medium. This includes unique identifyers and session ID's. The concepts were open by standard of PC scripting in the computer sciences community in this case CGI.

        Those elements they devised is where ecommerce was built from just because a dollar sign in real world application comes into the equation is irrelevant. The methodology was already founded by the government.

          Comment

          • bdld
            $100,000
            • Dec 2001
            • 11452
            #103
            there should be a law against people waiting for years to cash in on their patents.

              Comment

              • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                best designer on GFY
                • Mar 2003
                • 30307
                #104
                Here check this out to FTP:
                http://webdevelopersjournal.com/arti..._servlets.html

                Here is some interesting stuff from CERN in 1994:
                http://www94.web.cern.ch/WWW94/PrelimProcs.html
                Bottom of page:


                Keywords: business, home use
                Title: Changing your Business Culture with Mosaic (Abstract)
                Author: Ray Anderson
                Institute:IXI/SCO
                PostScript, Size: 23621, Printed: 1 page

                  Comment

                  • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                    best designer on GFY
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 30307
                    #105
                    Originally posted by bdld
                    there should be a law against people waiting for years to cash in on their patents.
                    Funny that the government made it so that Patents can be transferred.

                    Kinda a booty ruling.

                      Comment

                      • Trixxxia
                        Confirmed User
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 5600
                        #106
                        FTP - you know I'm doing random searches to see what I can find.
                        https://www.htdig.org/mail/2000/03/0...sion+ids&hl=en
                        Here they mention Apache servers automatically attaching the session id to the url if htdig doesn't accept cookies - depending on when Apache started doing that & if it kept track of who/what or if it used a CGI script - would that not prove that it was not a miraculous discovery?
                        *posts are from year 2000 but perhaps Apache was before that*

                          Comment

                          • Trixxxia
                            Confirmed User
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 5600
                            #107
                            Originally posted by AlienQ
                            Funny that the government made it so that Patents can be transferred.

                            Kinda a booty ruling.
                            soon you'll be able to buy "stocks" for enforceable patents

                            Taken from another board:
                            Google being sue for $5B

                              Comment

                              • uno
                                RIP Dodger. BEST.CAT.EVER
                                • Dec 2002
                                • 18450
                                #108
                                When did Adultcheck start?
                                -uno
                                icq: 111-914
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                                MojoHost - For all your hosting needs, present and future. Tell them I sent ya!

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                                  • XPays
                                    Team Player
                                    • May 2004
                                    • 13002
                                    #109
                                    http://IPalert.com is a useful tool for inventors tracking their inventions or those of others


                                    have a great new year's
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                                      • FightThisPatent
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Aug 2003
                                        • 4090
                                        #110
                                        Originally posted by TopBucksTrixxxia
                                        ....depending on when Apache started doing that & if it kept track of who/what or if it used a CGI script - would that not prove that it was not a miraculous discovery?

                                        evidence such as this could prove that the patent was "non-obvious", that anyone "skilled in the arts" could see that other things were going around that would naturally have led to this invention.

                                        amazon is at the early stages, somewhat like declaratory judgement, that if they can show the judge that (adult) websites were embedding an identifier in the URL to track clickthrus for commissions, etc.. then this case can get closed.

                                        If amazon cannot come up with a silver bullet by the end of january, then it will have to go to court, where they will bring in expert witnesses, testimony, and evidence such as what you have been finding.. but that means a drawn-out legal process.

                                        If the defendants against Acacia had this same opportunity, they probably could have nipped acacia right from the beginning.. we found some great prior art of digital video being used on BBS way before the Acacia patent.. but in the Acacia patent case, it went through Markman Hearings, etc,etc...which drew this thing out over 3 years.

                                        To better focus people's time in searching, there has to be a clear usage of an identifier, embeded within the URL that would be used for affiliates.

                                        anything other than the above focus, is something that the defense attorneys probably already found, or not useful to them at this stage of the game unless there is specifically the demonstrated use of an affiliate link.

                                        many thanks for to everyone jumping in to find the prior art. this patent really is an important one to unravel.... if adult industry use of affiliate links can't be found prior to sep 1995, then it doesn't look good for everyone.

                                        I feel that this patent is "obvious" due to CGI programming on webservers back at that time, that would easily lead to affiliate marketing integration.




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                                          • FightThisPatent
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Aug 2003
                                            • 4090
                                            #111
                                            Originally posted by TopBucksTrixxxia
                                            soon you'll be able to buy "stocks" for enforceable patents

                                            you mean stock ACTG = Acacia ?



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                                              • Screaming
                                                I can change this!!!!!
                                                • Feb 2004
                                                • 18972
                                                #112
                                                Thanks for the heads up.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                                    best designer on GFY
                                                    • Mar 2003
                                                    • 30307
                                                    #113
                                                    Bump for the nuisance patent attornies.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                                        best designer on GFY
                                                        • Mar 2003
                                                        • 30307
                                                        #114
                                                        History of the internet revealed!

                                                          Comment

                                                          • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                                            best designer on GFY
                                                            • Mar 2003
                                                            • 30307
                                                            #115
                                                            Keeping this one alive.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • 2HousePlague
                                                                CURATOR
                                                                • Jul 2004
                                                                • 14572
                                                                #116
                                                                This is ridiculous. The Internet itself is infringing on this patent:

                                                                It is therefore an object of the present invention to provide a unified system for capturing and tracking a co-marketing source which directed a new subscriber to an on-line service.

                                                                It is a further object of the present invention to provide a system for capturing and tracking information identifying a co-marketing source which directed a new subscriber to an on-line service, which requires no participation or intervention from the new subscriber.

                                                                It is a still further object of the present invention to provide a system for attaching navigational history information to a user traversing the world wide web so that a current web site could determine electronically at least the previous world wide web site visited by the user.

                                                                It is a still further object of the present invention to provide a system which could be used in conjunction with relative universal resource locator addressing, which permitted a user in a particular directory at a web site to move up a directory tree.

                                                                These and other objects of the invention will become apparent from the description of the invention which follows.
                                                                This is even broader than Bezos' unenforceable patent attempt. It seems to focus no more sharply than "continuity of data association" -- Forget about it --

                                                                Tim O'Reilly said it well in 2000. I think it still sounds good today:

                                                                "
                                                                I also want to say that a patent [like this] is a slap in the face of Tim Berners-Lee and all of the other pioneers who created the opportunity that Amazon has done such a good job of exploiting. Amazon wouldn't have existed without the generosity of people like Tim, who made legitimate, far-reaching inventions, and put them out into the public domain for all to build upon. Anyone who puts a small gloss on this fundamental technology, calls it proprietary, and then tries to keep others from building further on it, is a thief. The gift was given to all of us, and anyone who tries to make it their own is stealing our patrimony.

                                                                Patents like this are also incredibly short-sighted! The web has exploded because it was an open platform that sparked countless innovations by users. Fence in that platform, and who knows what opportunities will never come to light?

                                                                I urge Amazon to give up on this patent. I am confident that it will eventually be overturned in any case... more


                                                                "
                                                                The Web has been developed under a certain set of informal groundrules, where imitation was the sincerest form of flattery. Those rules are under attack, as companies decide the Web is "good enough" and now they are going to change the rules under which it developed, and stop others from copying them. We have to strike now, before exclusionary and proprietary approaches become accepted practice.

                                                                At the end of the day, a culture is ruled not just by its laws but by its social norms. The social norms of the Internet and of the Open Source community, which have proven so productive in the development of the Web, need to be recognized, honored, and upheld. The public relations cost of violating those norms needs to be high...more


                                                                2hp
                                                                tada!

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • FightThisPatent
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                                    • 4090
                                                                    #117
                                                                    Originally posted by 2HousePlague

                                                                    I urge Amazon to give up on this patent. I am confident that it will eventually be overturned in any case...

                                                                    there is already re-exam requests accepted by Patent Office over the 1-click patent.... as prior art for it has been submitted.

                                                                    still nothing solid yet from the adult biz about affiliate programs before sept 1995.



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                                                                      • 2HousePlague
                                                                        CURATOR
                                                                        • Jul 2004
                                                                        • 14572
                                                                        #118
                                                                        Originally posted by FightThisPatent
                                                                        there is already re-exam requests accepted by Patent Office over the 1-click patent.... as prior art for it has been submitted.

                                                                        still nothing solid yet from the adult biz about affiliate programs before sept 1995.



                                                                        Fight the still looking!
                                                                        I am busy with some pro-bono work for a related good cause today, Brandon. If you feel there is time enough to wait, let's have an exhaustive chat about this in LV. Though I am laboring with some heavy ideological boulders today, I am always looking out for the odd smooth stone, by heel or toe, to which I might give a friendly tap, nudge or bump as I work.

                                                                        2 Chronicles 32:5
                                                                        tada!

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                                                                          • XPays
                                                                            Team Player
                                                                            • May 2004
                                                                            • 13002
                                                                            #119
                                                                            as people get hip to the value of intellectual property portfolio's and wish to create or acquire their own, they will have incredible benefits from using the Patent & Trademark Watcher at http://IPalert.com

                                                                            at http://IPalert.com you can sit back and watch a movie on the front page and see the simplicity of the interface....


                                                                            we use it and we see a lot of folks in our industry are applying for patents btw. you might as well do a 30 day trial of the patent and trademark watcher at http://IPalert.com and also utilize the http://PDDW.com Pending Delete Domains Watcher, as the use of both will increase your knowledge base and protect your trademarks, plus much, much, more........
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                                                                              • FightThisPatent
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Aug 2003
                                                                                • 4090
                                                                                #120
                                                                                new years bump


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                                                                                  • 2HousePlague
                                                                                    CURATOR
                                                                                    • Jul 2004
                                                                                    • 14572
                                                                                    #121
                                                                                    uspto.gov seems to be infringing also...

                                                                                    When researching the Infonautics patents I was sent to the following link which begins:

                                                                                    |http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=...atft.uspto.gov

                                                                                    This link contains a reference to 'homeurl', which identifies the page from which the link was clicked. This would appear to be somewhat similar to the technique that Amazon is being sued for using.


                                                                                    2hp
                                                                                    tada!

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • FightThisPatent
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                                        • 4090
                                                                                        #122
                                                                                        Originally posted by 2HousePlague
                                                                                        This link contains a reference to 'homeurl', which identifies the page from which the link was clicked. This would appear to be somewhat similar to the technique that Amazon is being sued for using.

                                                                                        true, but USPTO isn't running any affiliate program to track clickthrus for commission/marketing tracking.

                                                                                        this patent would be able to be beaten by showing CGI linking from one website to another, and that it would be an obvious extension to track clicks, etc.

                                                                                        what is needed is a silver bullet of an adult affiliate program that was running before sept 1995.


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                                                                                          • coolegg2
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • May 2005
                                                                                            • 210
                                                                                            #123
                                                                                            Originally posted by FightThisPatent
                                                                                            what is needed is a silver bullet of an adult affiliate program that was running before sept 1995. Fight the emphasis!
                                                                                            Didn't PK, Greenguy, Marks Bookmarks and the other big linklists start around '94? I wonder what they were using for advertisers at the beginning? They must have been among the very first to sign up with the very first affiliate programs I would think. If anyone can help it would be the brandname linklists I would think.

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                                                                                              • Persignup Qon
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Jun 2005
                                                                                                • 853
                                                                                                #124
                                                                                                Originally posted by coolegg2
                                                                                                Didn't PK, Greenguy, Marks Bookmarks and the other big linklists start around '94? I wonder what they were using for advertisers at the beginning? They must have been among the very first to sign up with the very first affiliate programs I would think. If anyone can help it would be the brandname linklists I would think.

                                                                                                if i recall correctly in her interview, PK was just getting paid flat rate with no tracking urls... just winging it in the beginning (which most of us did)
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                                                                                                  • FightThisPatent
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                                                                    • 4090
                                                                                                    #125
                                                                                                    Anyone maybe know of any CGI/web programmers back in 94-95 time period that might have worked on affliate programming?

                                                                                                    please have them contact me or if you have their contact info via ICQ.

                                                                                                    Fight the inquiry!

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                                                                                                      • FightThisPatent
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                                                        • 4090
                                                                                                        #126
                                                                                                        Originally posted by FightThisPatent
                                                                                                        Anyone maybe know of any CGI/web programmers back in 94-95 time period that might have worked on affliate programming?

                                                                                                        please have them contact me or if you have their contact info via ICQ.

                                                                                                        Fight the inquiry!


                                                                                                        last bump from me.... if prior art can't be found, then this patent could come trolling through the affiliate programs.... and imagine if the patent owners have some moral "high ground", that they refuse to license it to paysites and charge high rates for paying for prior infringement... what the government could never do, business can.... shudder at that thought.

                                                                                                        you can try to change the way you run your affiliate linking today, but that just stops the clock on infringement. They can go for infringement all the way back to 1998 when the patent was approved.



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                                                                                                          • 2HousePlague
                                                                                                            CURATOR
                                                                                                            • Jul 2004
                                                                                                            • 14572
                                                                                                            #127
                                                                                                            I will help all I can, but it's not clear why prior art is needed of *affiliate* application, when the patent is for URL info pass-forward, or why it needs to be from Adult?

                                                                                                            2hp
                                                                                                            tada!

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • Doc911
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                • 3695
                                                                                                                #128
                                                                                                                You know I've been a programmer for a long time and passing a variable is NOT a new idea its basic programming.. To say passing a variable for any specific reason is patentable is a joke. Its like saying I invented passing a variable to put you name on a web page.

                                                                                                                any programmer knows that one.

                                                                                                                They would have to say any affiliate program was their idea. And the idea of a salesman on commision is as old as dirt and mute. It will never fly


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                                                                                                                  • FightThisPatent
                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                    • 4090
                                                                                                                    #129
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Doc911
                                                                                                                    You know I've been a programmer for a long time and passing a variable is NOT a new idea its basic programming.. To say passing a variable for any specific reason is patentable is a joke. Its like saying I invented passing a variable to put you name on a web page.

                                                                                                                    any programmer knows that one.
                                                                                                                    as a fellow programmer who was doing web development back in '95 i absolutely agree with you. The patent can be shredded apart by expert witness who could explain how passing of variables in the URL to a CGI script and doing something with it (like counter, etc) was "obvious".

                                                                                                                    Amazon has done a year's worth of research, and I am sure their own developers are saying the same thing, but at the stage of the court process that they are in, if they can show an affiiliate program before sep 1995 using a link with an affiliate identifier, then this patent case can be dismissed.

                                                                                                                    If they cannot find this mythical silver bullet, then they have to go to court and go through discovery and then court.. which after a few years and a few million dollars, they would unravel this patent.

                                                                                                                    During the time that amazon is tied up in courts, this BTG company can then go around and try to pick up others to license their patent, citing that Barnes&Nobles and Netflix licensed, and how they are now in court with Amazon.

                                                                                                                    While corporate america can certainly take care of itself, the problem is that corporate america does need the silver bullet to shoot down this beast of a patent infringement claim. If they aren't the ones holding the big gun, then it makes it harder for middle to small sized companies to carry the financial burden of going to court.

                                                                                                                    So there needs to be a clear demonstration of an affiliate program prior to Sept 1995, that comes through either the program owner or a programmer who can testify and document that such an occurence happened.


                                                                                                                    Fight the patent!

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                                                                                                                      • FightThisPatent
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                        • 4090
                                                                                                                        #130
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by 2HousePlague
                                                                                                                        .....but it's not clear why prior art is needed of *affiliate* application, when the patent is for URL info pass-forward, or why it needs to be from Adult?

                                                                                                                        the amazon patent attorneys have already looked all through mainstream, and they have some potential leads, but no silver bullets.

                                                                                                                        they believe that the adult biz must hold the answer to technological breakthrough of an affiliate program prior to the patent filing in sept 1995.


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                                                                                                                          • jade_dragon
                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                            • May 2004
                                                                                                                            • 1737
                                                                                                                            #131
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by butterflybucks
                                                                                                                            What's next? Patents for message board posts? Patents for 'LOL'

                                                                                                                            funny you should say that, microsoft tried to patten smillies haha. S Truit Cathy the founder of chic fil a pattented the Chic-fil-a chicken sandwhich and the term waffle potato fry. He also created the food court, people will claim anything and sometimes they get away with it.....

                                                                                                                            Come to think about it Capcom sued SNK over the rights to fighting games based on real martial arts styles, maybe I should go in patent some things that already existed and sue!
                                                                                                                            Last edited by jade_dragon; 01-02-2006, 09:33 PM.
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                                                                                                                              • FightThisPatent
                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                • 4090
                                                                                                                                #132
                                                                                                                                holy prior art batman... i think i may have found the prior art !

                                                                                                                                chasing down this pretty solid lead. if this lead works out, then it can be presented in court at end of January.. and if this lead is the silver bullet, you'll hear about it from me.

                                                                                                                                Fight the shhhhh, it's a secret!

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                                                                                                                                  • Persignup Dustin
                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                    • Dec 2005
                                                                                                                                    • 871
                                                                                                                                    #133
                                                                                                                                    So if they identify it as patent, what does that mean for the adult industry?


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                                                                                                                                      • FightThisPatent
                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                        • 4090
                                                                                                                                        #134
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by TheManifesto
                                                                                                                                        So if they identify it as patent, what does that mean for the adult industry?

                                                                                                                                        If the prior art lead is solid, then it means Amazon can beat down this claimed patent over affiliate programs, and all affiliate programs (adult and mainstream) will have one less patent to worry about.

                                                                                                                                        This one is particularly troubling because of its very early filing date and the broadness of the patent, that would make it the foundation patent for all other patents filed on affiliate program.


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