50 drunks on the 101
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Trump haters gonna hate. that's all they can do -
I thought about it briefly, and decided you're the biggest fucking idiot in this thread if you think driving "buzzed" is okay. You also might want to recheck your stats on accident causes, because they're totally different to stats from other countries. For example, in the UK (where drivers are only half as likely to have an accident per mile driven than US drivers, and drivers are far less likely to drive drunk) 20% of motoring related deaths are caused by drunk drivers. Approx 10% of motoring related deaths are caused by "excessive" speed - of those 10%, just 30% are actually breaking the speed limit.Originally posted by websiex
Drunk pedestrians might want to think about getting a cab as well - in the UK, almost half of all pedestrians killed in road crashes between 10pm and 4am at the weekend are more than twice over the drink-drive limit...Comment
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Great Post Cory especially in this season. I have never and will never drive drunk. People as a whole are so full of themselves they think "It won't happen to me" well guess what there are thousand killed every year and it "can" happen to you. So stop being foolish and grow up if you drink and drive.Comment
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not a problem for me, i don't like to drink or socialize or party.
I barely ever leave my house even so its not a problem for me!Comment
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there are some people that can really handle themselves, that they can drive carefully even if they are drunk.Comment
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I thought about it briefly, and decided you're the biggest fucking idiot in this thread if you think driving "buzzed" is okay. You also might want to recheck your stats on accident causes, because they're totally different to stats from other countries. For example, in the UK (where drivers are only half as likely to have an accident per mile driven than US drivers, and drivers are far less likely to drive drunk) 20% of motoring related deaths are caused by drunk drivers. Approx 10% of motoring related deaths are caused by "excessive" speed - of those 10%, just 30% are actually breaking the speed limit.
Drunk pedestrians might want to think about getting a cab as well - in the UK, almost half of all pedestrians killed in road crashes between 10pm and 4am at the weekend are more than twice over the drink-drive limit...I specifically stated that my stats were from inside the United States, and not from any vehicleless European countries. I will admit I don't know a lot about European countries' driving habits, so I won't even comment on them.You also might want to recheck your stats on accident causes, because they're totally different to stats from other countries. For example, in the UK (where drivers are only half as likely to have an accident per mile driven than US drivers, and drivers are far less likely to drive drunk) 20% of motoring related deaths are caused by drunk drivers. Approx 10% of motoring related deaths are caused by "excessive" speed - of those 10%, just 30% are actually breaking the speed limit.
The fact is though - Drunk driving doesn't cause as many accidents as other less offensive crimes. I never said drunk driving is right, but why should it be under fire more than all of the other crimes; when the other crimes are just as bad, and in this case, worse.
Also, I know that around 40% of all fatal traffic accidents do involve people with a blood alcohol level over the .08 limit, but it can't be proven that the booze was the cause of the accident; even though people are quick to say that it was. It could have easily been a combination of talking on the phone, speeding, and the booze, but people are quick to the gun and automatically blame it on drunk driving. Also, some of the people involved are drunk pedestrians and they are included in the statistics. (The driver was sober.)
Like I said, even though alcohol is involved in a lot of FATAL crashes, it doesn't mean that it was the absolute cause of the crash. The driver could've easily have been speeding or cellphoning, or listening to loud music, or a variety of other dangerous activites.
Maybe you should recant your statement.Comment
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Since I grew up in an era where we didnt have DUI laws and the MADD hadnt started their little campaign yet - you guys might want to go back in history to before these laws and you will see that the number of drunk driving deaths has actually increased (percentage wise) since instituting these idiotic laws.
I have had friends killed by drunk drivers, just as by speeders and even one by a lady yapping on her cell phone (which to me should be more illegal than drinking and driving) so I sympathize to a small part with the people that say you should jail someone if they do actually hurt someone. But I dont agree that there should be preemptive measures like DUIs/DWIs etc. Doesnt make sense as it obviously has just increased the number of deaths (in the US) and taken police away from the jobs they should be doing and putting them out on roadblocks.
Just my opinion and being as old as I am I dont really care if younger people that weren't around back then want to hate - have never felt that the government telling people what they can and cant do is the way to solve problems - it just breeds themComment
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Originally posted by websiex
Thats classic.
Drink driving is wrong, I do believe having 1 beer then driving is fine but anymore and you're pushing the limits. Reaction time slows down yada yada, next thing you know you're up a curb and you've ploughed through 5 people.Comment
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I have a friend who did it. He crashed and his face got ripped off...
M&A QueenComment
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I only drive drunk... if I'm too drunk to walk..
joke i am 100% against D&D was in a huge accident about 2 years ago got t-boned by a drunko, wrote my car off about half a second away from being dead.
people who think it's "cool" or "no big deal", why? Wouldn't you rather just take a cab? Maybe no one cares about your life.. but you could take some one's that people do.Last edited by JuiceMonkey; 12-28-2005, 05:16 AM.ICQ: 72251955 GTalk: JuiceMonkeyComment
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If I'm driving, I usually never drink. The only times I do is when I'm going to be at family's or wherever for a long time and I'll only have 1 or 2.
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The worse is the good old argument that: " I've been DUY for +10 years and never had an accident"...
If I drink, I will leave my car and get a ride, cab, or walk..simple as thatComment
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I would drink and drive every night just about from 16-18... got a DUI (one of those, people under 21 can only have .02, adults.08, I had .079) and havent done it since. My friends always ask me to drive "you've only had 2-3" and I say..... fuck you asshole I'm not driving.Comment
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Originally posted by Linkster
Yeah and I know people from high school in their early 20's with 6-10 Duis they have never hurt anyone, but they still drink all the time, still drive when they want to go somewhere. So far the only person its done any good is he lawyer.Comment
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What an interesting thread.....and, the responses are incredible.
Altered is altered, whether it's drugs or drink.
Once a body has ingested some chemical in whatever form, they have rendered themselves ineligible as a judge for reflexes and behaviour.
No matter what, the statistics are overwhelmingly in favour of 'don't drink and drive. period.'.
And, that goes for coke and weed and whatever else chemically alters your reflexes and reaction times and thought processes.
The hospitals are filled with people who think they know better. So are the morgues.
Mad respect, Cory. I'm with you.Raven
~RETIRED~
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Those putting up the arguments against speeding and talking on cell phones, I am with you, however I find them isolated. Drunk driving stats are up since the institution of laws, however consider the population increase along with more young kids trying alcohol and drugs.Comment
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And I never argued that MADD or specific laws are effective, in fact my post is geared towards the idea that I don't think people care, I think they find it acceptable.Comment
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Driving drunk is bad. I never did it. So many people get killed by drunk bastards! That sucks!Comment
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This is a very immature point of view. You'll grow up one day and realize that the laws are not arbitrary, they didn't just pull these numbers out of thin air. (Actually it's .08 not .008) A lot of thought and scientific research went into it based on all the other stupid half-pissed idiots who thought they were just fine but weren't 'with it' enough to react properly and killed innocent people.Originally posted by sandman!
Drinking and driving is fucked up, plain and simple.
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You can just say me, rather than go around it. I don't take offense. All opinions are welcome.Originally posted by Hey You . . . I Know You!
I never have driven drunk, I have always advocated taking cabs. There are people who read this board that have seen me arrive to a great many events in cabs (locally). Every Weg event in Orange County I have used a cab. CA Dave's event in LA I used a designated driver for XXXJay and myself.
Every time I went to Huntington to meet Jay, I arrived in a cab or stayed at his place. Planning transport and sleeping arrangements is a huge undertaking, but well worth it for piece of mind.
That said, I am not innocent: Although I have stopped people who were smashed from driving home, I haven't been one to stop those that are "not exactly smashed" from driving. Fact is, it is tough to convince most people that they should not drive and you will not get a lot of support from others.Comment
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bullshitOriginally posted by reynoldComment
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Originally posted by websiex
No, I think he was right.Comment
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Originally posted by WEG Cory
While you may not have stopped people, I have observed you asking them if they were okay/legal.Comment
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Thanks for noting that. Glad you have that good of a memory.Originally posted by baddog
I always have taken it serious.Comment
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I never said driving drunk is OK like his comments infer that I did. I don't mind if you call me an idiot if you disagree with me, but I never did say driving buzzed is OK. I said it shouldn't be a misdemeanor.baddog said - No, I think he was right.
The reality of it is, I said: "I think people that are driving with a slight buzz, or not even drunk at all should be able to drive home without worrying about getting a misdemeanor."volante said - I thought about it briefly, and decided you're the biggest fucking idiot in this thread if you think driving "buzzed" is okay.Comment
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where i live it was the thing everyone did in highschool, booze cruising. i lived in a small rural area and there was nothing for us to do, and we weren't old enough to go to the bars so we drank and drove. however i was never one to do this.
it seemed like every summer someone i knew was killed while driving drunk. i would be lying if i said i never did it but the one time i did i regretted it, even tho nothing happened.you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..Comment
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I am not calling you out and do respect your honesty; however, you do realize that is a bold statement?Originally posted by websiexComment
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also wanted to add that while a lot of you people seem to say the laws are too harsh, the one time someone does get caught is nothing to the dozens or even 100's of time they surely did it before. i know one of my friends is crazy and lucky to be alive. hes rolled 5 cars in the past couple years because he blacks out while driving drunk. luckily they've all been single car but he finally got caught and lost his license for a year. but does that learn him? nope. he still drives with no license, no insurance, truck isn't registered and he still does it drunk too. some people will never learn no matter the consequences
you'd think the time he woke up underwater upside down in the creek would be a wake up call but some peoples vice's are stronger than common sense i guess.Last edited by BlackCrayon; 12-28-2005, 10:11 AM.you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..Comment
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Anything that distracts a driver's concentration, be it drugs, alcohol, cell phones, whatever...makes them dangerous.
It's hard enough to drive, even though we become adept at driving.
Why muck it up with extras that diminish our response time. It only takes a millisecond and life could be so much worse for you and others.Raven
~RETIRED~
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I like this thread a lot, and I'll agree with you somewhat on your comment about my statement. The truth is, DUI is a very complicated subject. Some people might want to just say, "Drink and Drive, pay the price!" and others might want to take a different approach.I am not calling you out and do respect your honesty; however, you do realize that is a bold statement?
I think the "Drink and Drive, pay the price!" approach is harsh. That is my position on it. I don't drive drunk, but I probably have driven over the legal limit. There really is a difference between totally sloppy drunk and "legal limit drunk".
I don't want to make this another huge post.. but I will to try to get my point across more clear.
The tests they used to make the .08 limit tested peoples reaction times when driving. They figured that .08 was unsafe to drive at, so they set the standard there. Now, of course you might be impaired at this level, but what I am asking is, does it really require a misdemeanor charge?
I think the answer to that is no. I bet if they did the same test with people driving while talking on cell phones; the results would probably, in my honest opinion, worse than .08 driving. This can probably be applied to eating and driving too and end up with the same results.
Eating and driving and cellphoning and driving both aren't misdemeanor charges. Neither of them can land you in jail and both are probably just as dangerous or even more dangerous than driving at .08. I'm not saying drunk driving is OK, I never said that. I am saying it shouldn't be a misdemeanor. I hope you understand my position and think about it.
PS: I can probably drive more safe at .08 then while talking on a cell phone or eating a Big Mac, truthfully.Comment
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Things that come to mind:Originally posted by websiex
The law of .08 was more targetted at intimidating those that are irresponsible IMO. In other words, what you can function at is irrelevant. IF that makes sense.
I agree with your cell-phone synopsis, and I think new laws are falling into place. The way I see D-D is that much of the law is democratically imposed, if you will. Public pressure on legislation has pushed the laws to these extreme levels.
I do agree with them, I also think that I "could" drive at .08, however I will not because I don't trust others making the same decisions. Most people that say they are .08 are buzzed never seem to be in my eyes. I also think holding one law hostage because another law isn't suffice is dangerous...if that makes sense?
In other words, it is a slippery slope to say "murder should be ok because war justifies killing..." You catch my drift on my bad example....Comment
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I have NEVER driven drunk or after even having one drink -- I take taxis when I want to party! Taxi's are great because I have the VIP number for the local company so I get immediate service and I can get as smashed as I want and not have to worry about potentially killing anyone on the road, myself, or getting pulled over by the cops and fined or taken to jail.
It's not difficult to make the right choices -- I hope all you self-important morons who do drink and drive end up as quadrapalegic vegetables on life support until you die of old age!Comment
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I explained it as best as I could and if you disagree with my last post then there isn't much more I can say to change your mind. I will take another chop at it though.Things that come to mind:
The law of .08 was more targetted at intimidating those that are irresponsible IMO. In other words, what you can function at is irrelevant. IF that makes sense.
I agree with your cell-phone synopsis, and I think new laws are falling into place. The way I see D-D is that much of the law is democratically imposed, if you will. Public pressure on legislation has pushed the laws to these extreme levels.
I do agree with them, I also think that I "could" drive at .08, however I will not because I don't trust others making the same decisions. Most people that say they are .08 are buzzed never seem to be in my eyes. I also think holding one law hostage because another law isn't suffice is dangerous...if that makes sense?
In other words, it is a slippery slope to say "murder should be ok because war justifies killing..." You catch my drift on my bad example....
Regular people really don't want to go through the hassel of .08 DUI charges because they went out and legally drank the booze. These people don't intend to go in the car and end up getting in an accident. Most of the people don't even know they are above the legal limit, therefore, they don't even know that they are breaking the law. When you murder someone, you have intent to kill them. When you speed, you have the intention to speed. When you have 3 beers and drive home you aren't looking to hurt anyone, and you have no idea if you are over the legal limit. Then you find yourself in the back of a police cruiser going to jail over nonsense.
This is about the plain folks to me. About the people stopping to have a beer or 2 after a long day at work. These people aren't dangerous and they definitely don't intend to go out and hurt people after they have a few drinks. They really don't even know if they are over the legal limit, because to them, they are FINE. It is IMPOSSIBLE to tell if you are over the legal limit, if you feel fine then you're fine. If you're completely trashed, then you know you're trashed and you shouldn't drive. I don't think everyone should be punished for the idiots that drive at .30 and end up killing themselves or other people.
It is all about the people IMO.Comment
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Your post echos my sentiments on his post almost to a T.Originally posted by WEG Cory
D&D'ing is a misdemeanor because it involved an ingested substance that impaires your reaction time and judgement, whereas cell phone distraction and eating while driving do not chemically impaire your judgement. If that were a valid argument then talking to a passenger while driving or changing the radio station while driving would also have to be included.
People who cause accidents while being cell phone idiots etc also get punished, the laws and penalties are getting harsher, not softer... and for good reason. Here in parts of Canada there is a movement to have the .08 limit lowered to .05. I am in favor of stiffer penalties for these idiots out there who just can't seem to figure out that the majority of society does not want them on the road if they've had drinks.
One normal-sized drink over dinner or two sipped slowly over the course of a few hours, although fine in many people's minds, is playing with fire. The push now is for zero tolerance, and for first offenders there is a fine, possible jail time and a suspension of license for up to a year in some places, and I'm sorry to you who are whining about the penalties being too harsh but I agree with them.
In fact, I think that repeat DD'ing offenders who have caused ANY alchohol-related accident or injury etc should have a breathalyzer gizmo built into their car's ignition system, preventing the car from being able to start unless they blow into the device.... and if they are over a certain blood alcohol level the vehicle also won't start for that reason.
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Originally posted by CDSmith
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One normal-sized drink over dinner or two sipped slowly over the course of a few hours, although fine in many people's minds, is playing with fire. The push now is for zero tolerance, and for first offenders there is a fine, possible jail time and a suspension of license for up to a year in some places, and I'm sorry to you who are whining about the penalties being too harsh but I agree with them.You're not looking out for the folks. You're all about hefty fines and jail time for something that is LEGAL TO DO. There are regular folks out there that can't afford to call cabs every day to take them from work to the bar. These people work for a living and go to the bar to have a few drinks. They aren't sloppy, they don't know they're breaking the law, and they sure as hell don't intend to hurt anyone.How hard is it to call a cab?
As I said in another post, it doesn't matter what causes someone to get killed, a person still died. Just because it isn't chemicals doesn't make it right. Your arguement is invalid. If it causes accidents, it is dangerous.D&D'ing is a misdemeanor because it involved an ingested substance that impaires your reaction time and judgement, whereas cell phone distraction and eating while driving do not chemically impaire your judgement. If that were a valid argument then talking to a passenger while driving or changing the radio station while driving would also have to be included.Comment
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bottom line is this is a HUGE problem in our country. It really is unacceptable. Once the general public this way then maybe things will change. But let's face it, we all see people driving after drinking because they "think" they are ok. We need ZERO tolerance.
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If somebody has the cash for a drink, they have the cash to get themselves safely home afterwards. The "too poor to afford a cab" arguement is so weak. If you're really hard up for cash, how about stopping off at the liquor store (where you can buy booze for much cheaper than at a bar) for a bottle, driving home SOBER, and having a drink when you're home safe and sound!?!Originally posted by websiex
Although you D&D'ers don't like to acknowledge it, there are OTHER people in this world besides you who have the right to NOT be killed or maimed by people who drink and drive!Comment
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It's not legal to drink and drive. It's legal to drink, but not drive after doing it.Originally posted by websiex
do you..... do you follow along here?
See, this right here is why a few others in this thread have pegged you as an idiot. Oh, but those people you're talking about who can't afford the ten or twenty bucks for a cab ride can afford to buy drinks though.Originally posted by websiex
Not knowing your blood alcohol status is no excuse. Period. If there is any doubt, a responsible person simply doesn't do it, they get a ride or phone the wife to come get them or they take a bus, or a CAB.
"I didn't intend to hurt anyone".... yeah, good argument buddy. Tell that to the family of the person or persons you just killed because you were too stupid to know that you were at risk.
If my argument is invalid, why does society and it's laws support my side of the argument?Originally posted by websiex
You obviously haven't had a close friend or family member or girlfriend/wife/kid killed by a driver who was impaired. I hope you never come to find out first-hand what that feels like, but if there are more people like you with your skewed and misinformed opinion out there the law of averages say you just might.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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This is a ridiculous statement. You might feel fine after 3 or 4 drinks but the fact is, your judgement and reaction time is altered. You are simply not functioning with your full capability. You don't have to be drunk to be IMPAIRED.Originally posted by websiex
It's not just about getting stopped and having a DUI charge...it's about being a menace on the road to the other innocent people out there. I sincerely hope it will never happen to you but if one day you hurt or kill someone... or some one you love is hurt or killed by an IMPAIRED driver, you might change your tune.
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CDSmith, I won't argue with you any longer in this thread. You don't understand what I said in my previous posts, and you can't recognize dangerous activities. Basically, you think just because alcohol is a chemical and speeding isn't a chemical, alcohol is more dangerous. That is really dumb, but you can keep thinking that way. Speeding causes a lot more accidents.
Fact is, it is a complicated subject. I am more for the regular folks who drink after a hard days work and can't afford a DUI. Drinking is legal, and these people don't know they're driving over the legal limit. There are people out there that work every day 9-5 and stop for a deserved beer after work with their buddies. These guys aren't scientists and they don't know if they are over the legal limit. They get paid $10 an hour and can't afford a $20 cab fare every day to take them to the bar and back when they feel that they aren't even drunk. (And they aren't, they are only LEGALLY drunk.)
On the other hand, you are a very legalistic person who does no wrong and can't be bothered by filthy .08 drivers. You are a high class citizen. You work behind a computer and don't have to put up with the realities of a working class citizen. You weren't just at the coal mine picking coal and getting your hands dirty. You don't have kids nagging on you every day for items you want them to have, but you just can't afford. You don't have to live paycheck to paycheck hoping you can pay the bills.
Think about that for a while. Yes, when people drive drunk they do take the risk of hurting people. But, how do we really know when someone is drunk. Does .08 really solve the problem? Does zero tolerance really solve it? I think people will drink and drive regardless. I also think it should be up to the cop if the person is drunk. A good test would be maybe basic multiplication, or the alphabet. Then at least the person is either stupid, or really drunk.
There is no solution. Yes, society is against drunk driving and very well should be, but if it was changed from a misdemeanor to a summary I don't think people would really care after a week or two.
Like I said, speeding, running red lights, failing to use turn signals, eating, talking on the phone, talking to the passenger, changing the radio dial, not wearing sunglasses in bright sun, ect... all dangerous... all can kill.... all preventable, but according to you, just fine and dandy. Someone dies, they die, it doesn't matter how.
Society supported prohibition and slavery.If my argument is invalid, why does society and it's laws support my side of the argument?
Anyway, not arguing w/ you anymore. You are close minded about this issue and we obviously have differing opinions. I do accept your arguement though and will not personally attack you because of your views.Comment
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Had a friend killed in an accident with another friend that was driving. Driver friend got 6 1/2 years in jail, passenger is dead. Didn't change my tune. Both were drunk and almost killed two other innocent people in the same accident.I sincerely hope it will never happen to you but if one day you hurt or kill someone... or some one you love is hurt or killed by an IMPAIRED driver, you might change your tune.Comment
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I got a DUI almost two years ago now and haven't been behind the wheel with any alcohol since. The thing that shocked me the most was that the night of my DUI I had only had 2 drinks, felt totally fine, not buzzed at all. How many other times have I driven when I felt a little buzzed? Probably a lot, and that means that each of those times I was over the legal limit (.08 in CA). I had no idea. Since then I either don't drink if I'm the driver or I plan ahead making sure we have a sober driver. Jail isn't a place I'd ever want to go back to nor do I want to deal with all the court dates, attorneys fees, suspended license etc. Unfortunately, it took getting arrested for me to figure that out. Hopefully others can avoid all that by just being smart.ICQ: 191778655Comment
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websiex: the saying "it is better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" came to mind.
No one has the right to drive. Driving under the influence negates the license to do so.
If someone can't afford a cab, let them drink at home.Comment
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I'm for tougher penalties for repeat offending speeders too.Originally posted by websiex
And for that matter I support laws baring non-hands-free cell phone use while driving as well.
Your problem with me as I see it is that you fail to recognize that I do understand what you're saying.... but that it is you who has stubbornly dug himself into a wrongful erroneous and just plain wrong viewpoint here. Period.
I never said that alcohol was more dangerous than speeding, learn to understand the written word sir. What I was attempting to do was to answer your point about speeding and why it's not a more serious offense as driving while impaired is. That's all.
Only an idiot would think that one is more or less serious, when people are just as dead from either infraction.
Aside from all that, your point about the laws being too harsh is pure bunk. If anything they are not harsh enough, for impaired driving OR for speeding... especially for repeat offenders.
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Another stupid argument. Society supports laws against murder and rape, do you think those are "too harsh" as well? Get a clue.Originally posted by websiex
I'm not attacking you personally, I am attacking your argument. Think more in terms of a debate, because brother if you were up on the stage speaking at the podium you can bet your opponent is going to try to rip your argument a new one far worse than I or anyone here in a real debate. If you can't take the heat....Originally posted by websiex
That said, your posts are blatently attempting to make excuses for why people should be given more leeway when having a few drinks and then driving home... which is plain and simply a painfully ignorant and stupid point of view to have in today's society.
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Anyone who gets behind the wheel of a car whilst drunk is a moron IMO.Comment
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Just stay off my damn roads if you're a moron, thanks.
And I'll say this also, if you "dont know you're breaking the law" based on a few beers or wine or whatever, then assume you are and call for a ride.
In my state, driving with a cell phone up to your ear is already against the law.
Loud music should be too (should be enforced). I was stopped at a red light once leaving work from a strip mall, and across from me was a van and he had the music CRANKED. The light turned green, and while I sat there watching, the idiot pulled out and got tboned to death by the ambulance that was screaming down the perpedicular road with sirens and lights going the whole time. The guy was so zonked on his tunes he got killed.43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.
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There's your problem right there.Originally posted by websiexPromote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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