50.........
-
Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager
Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager -
In my opinion, any law outlawing acts that do not directly harm others is unjust.Originally posted by Coatsy
Furthermore, any law using barbaric forms of punishment which violate one's physical integrity is unjust, because it reduces us to the same level as violent criminals.
However, this particular law punishes non-violent crime by violent means, and thus is particularly barbaric and unjust. In fact, the criminals here are the people responsible for the law and its execution./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
Respect for someones culture is one thing. If that culture involves hanging people for drugs, I have absoluetly "zero" respect for it.Originally posted by CoatsyWow! Nothing quite like having zero respect for other cultures
Singapore are VERY strict against drugs, zero drugs policy - Probably part of the reason why they have so little crime in their country because they are so harsh on criminals, you know people who break their laws
There is a drug culture too....
Its been around for years. Apparently, Singapore has no respect for the culture of having a good time.Comment
-
Drugs do not directly harm people? Some societies in the world are in a complete mess because of drug use. I can only speak from personal experience but I know of parts of Northern Ireland that are basically no go areas because of how the drug use has destroyed a few towns. Especially when hard drugs are used, desperate people do desperate things when on things like heroineOriginally posted by punkworld
Can you not agree that the actions of this guy was going to indirectly effect others in a negative way?
From what I can see Singapore has adopted a 'nip it in the bud' attitude, they will not tolerate any kind of drugs in their society because they know of the negative impacts hard drugs can have on society
I don't suppose you could see it as protecting those that deserve to be protected?Originally posted by punkworld
Example - I personally do not understand why someone who has murdered another human get such light jail sentences in western society, this murderer has ended someones life. The person that was murdered has been served no justice imo if the murderer does 10 years in prison, in 10 years time that murderer will be back out on the street and could commit the same crime again.
The only fitting punishment for that person would be death imo - An eye for an eye
In the case of Tuongva Nguyen imo he was committing a crime that may not have directly harmed people but it was going to harm people indirectly once the drugs had been distributed. Can you honestly say that use of heroine does not harm people? In my opinion it harms people directly (from using it) and indirectly from the negative effects it has on society through crime from desperate addicts that will do anything for their next fix.Comment
-
i'm against drugs and against hanging people!---
Busy ranking websites on Google...
Comment
-
I could most certainly be wrong but I think Singapores stance on drugs is so harsh because they are trying to protect their society from the problems that occur when hard drugs become a big problem.Originally posted by TreasureBucks
Can anyone here actually argue that hard drugs provide positive effects on society? I'm seriously interested if you could provide any good pointsComment
-
What do you think would be a fair law for drug trafficing ? I do understand your point of view, how can a country combat drugs in society if they cannot use harsh deterrents ?Originally posted by punkworldComment
-
No, smuggling or selling drugs does not directly harm people. In order to be harmed, people have to make the choice to actually take the drugs. That's why it's a completely different thing from violent crimes such as murder or rape - with drugs, the victim is actually mainly his own victim.Originally posted by Coatsy
The actions of this guy were going to affect others, yes, but only if those others chose to be affected.
They have a "nip it in the bud" attitude, yes, but this specific attitude holds that they do not recognize their own citizens as autonomous, morally responsible citizens.
"An eye for an eye makes everyone blind" is a very true saying, but even more important is that it places the people "retaliating" on the same level as the criminals. It does not provice any more protection to society than a lifelong prison sentence, but it does show that the state does not see the human body as inviolable.Originally posted by Coatsy
However, with heroine, it isn't even an eye for an eye. It is like taking the eye of a knife salesman who happens to have sold a knife to some moron who poked out his own eye. Nobody forces drug users to take drugs, they do so by their own free will. The effects of their actions on others, therefore, fall upon their own shoulders.
Drug sales can still be outlawed, of course, but the punishment can never be based on the acts committed by others (drug users).
And, once again, the death penalty for drug smuggling is punishing a non-violent crime by violent means./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
This is no different than saying guns don't harm people, people do. The same rules apply, if there were no guns then people could not shoot each other, if there are no drugs there is going to be less crime.Originally posted by punkworld
People take drugs because the option is there for them to take drugs, if you take away that option then they cannot take drugs. It may not be morally correct to execute anyone associated with drug trafficing but it seems to be an excellent dererant if morally incorrect.Originally posted by punkworld
This was posted by latinasojourn in this thread
Now I'm making the assumption that latinasojourn is been to Singapore, I've read quite a bit about the place and read many other peoples experiences of Singapore and most of what is quoted above seems to hold true.Originally posted by latinasojourn
Personally I feel that if a few people have to be punished to protect the many then so be it!! The only way I see to protect people against drugs is to prevent people from being able to use themOriginally posted by punkworldComment
-
He did it for his brotherOriginally posted by nofx
NEW SITE: Stockings Kingdom
Lesbians in Latex, Lesbians in Stockings, Granny Sex, BDSM Porn, Latex and Sex, Custom Foot Fetish, Femdom Movies and Kinky Porn Pass.
300+ hosted flvs, 500+ hosted galleries, Page Peel ADs.. NATS export and payouts twice a monthComment
-
A country can combat drugs much more efficiently and much more humanely than with "harsh deterrents". While I myself am in favour of a much more radical change in policy, the following would do extremely well in stopping drug problems:Originally posted by Coatsy
Let's start by recognizing the root of drug trade: money. People are willing to take huge risks because the rewards are huge, at least relatively speaking. To combat the drug trade, the rewards need to be taken away. Unfortunately, merely increasing the risks associated with it drives up the price, thereby increasing the rewards.
So how do you attack the rewards bit? It's simpler than it seems.
You start off with decreasing demand. This is simpler than it seems, because demand for addictive hard drugs is mainly fueled by a small group of core users, the "lost" junkies. Separating them from society and supplying them with drugs (allowing and assisting them to quit if they want to, of course, but giving up the idea of forcing them to get "cured", which so far just doesn't seem to work) will both keep them happy and virtually eliminate damage to society, while substantially decreasing demand for hard drugs.
This first step has eliminated most of the demand for hard drugs. Now, it is time to hurt the business itself. The first step in that is, of course, increasing the catch rate. An increase in money spent on police can pretty much accomplish that, and it will pay for itself in costs saved to society. Especially considering the next step: consistently taking all money from those caught selling, smuggling or trading drugs. By stripping all assets from drug dealers the "rewards" part is hurt even further, especially when combined with the greater catch rate.
Now, a final step could be to put very long prison terms on selling drugs to minors, since those aren't considered capable of taking responsibility for their judgements.
These very simple things combined, especially the first one, would greatly diminish drug sales, and subsequently, damage done to society by drug use./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
Originally posted by punkworld
Those would have absolutely zero effect on anything, sorry to say, but it's true.
Singapore has an extremely low crime rate for a very good reason. I applaud them, wish more countries had the balls to do something like this, would put a fucking hault on crime. People would think twice about robbing you if their friend just got their fucking hand cut off, they wouldn't litter if their neighbor just got 20 years for doing so.
The only way to deter people is to make the results from being caught so extreme that it strikes enough fear in them to stop them. Obviously the policies we put in place now do not do that one bit, most criminals laugh at the thought of jail time, some even welcome it.Last edited by aico; 12-02-2005, 01:12 PM.Comment
-
Fuck The Singapore Governmant... bunch of crazy assholesComment
-
One should always respect the laws of another Country or be prepared to face the consequences. However, I don't quite get the gum thing....what's up with that?AIM sherierocks
ICQ 127-296-286
Skype traffichorComment
-
The world is a funny place. Culture should be respected, however, cultures need to asses the political and economical repercussions of there actions. It may not be right to tell Indonesia or Singapore how they should treat drug traffickers, but if their culture is fueled from Western and Australian tourism money, it might be wise to open up to talks.
I have traveled a lot, I respect other cultures and I am not a large supporter of Americanism via military action worldwide. I also believe that Americans (I use the term loosely) should show more respect while abroad than they currently do. However, I have seen what Western tourism money means to other cultures, I have seen what they would undoubtedly look like without such transactions. Not specific to Singapore, but if you go back and look at how dismal tourism number related to SARS and fears of terrorist attacks effected the economy, you can see the relative importance.
I am not suggesting any small nations bend over for other cultures strictly due to money, however, it is a factor that should be considered. The idea of what is right is skewed heavily.
Australia is likely the third largest tourism generator behind asian nations. They are also supplied manufacturing, as is The United States.
A travel agent or airline stewardess is not regarded as a high-class citizen in the United States; the same can't be said in other countries. Think about it.Comment
-
Sellers of guns do not directly harm people, and therefore do not take the same blame for murders that the murderers do. Even if you outlaw guns, this does not change. So you can't punish them for what they didn't do, and can't place the full moral burden of that on them. At most, they can be held responsible for something like involuntary manslaughter. The same goes for drugs - the seller is not responsible for the crimes of the buyer.Originally posted by Coatsy
Sure, extreme penalties deter people from committing crimes. Not respecting basic human rights, not respecting the autonomy of citizens, brutal punishments, and the like will stop crime. But they also make for a country much like the Third Reich, where citizens' lives aren't respected at all.Originally posted by Coatsy
Besides, a country like Norway, with a much more lenient justice system, produces similar results to Singapore.
You feel that a lower crime rate is worth disrespecting a number of human lives and disrespecting the autonomy of all others? Personally, I believe freedom and civil rights are worth the risks they come with. I do not believe the government should treat me like a child and deny me te right to chew gum, or should treat me like an animal and kill me if I pose any trouble.Originally posted by Coatsy
Human lives are intrinsically valuable, and can not be thrown away just for increased functionality. Thoughts like that are barbaric and dangerous, and are clear evidence of a fundamental disrespect and contempt for individual humans. The state exists for its members, not the other way around./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
+++ quoted for great justice +++Originally posted by maxxxxx...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..Comment
-
sorry, but at least some of punkworld's suggestions have already been proven to work in the real world, the netherlands and their 'shoot up' centers for junkies comes to mind..Originally posted by aico...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..Comment
-
The things I mentioned actually would have a great effect, and indeed do already show effect in places where they have been experimented with.Originally posted by aico
The hardline approach, in most countries, does not seem to be working. Remember how the American government waged a "War on drugs" which didn't do jack shit, and made the US end up with a higher drug abuse rate than a country like the Netherlands, which took the exact opposite road?
I really don't understand how you people can see a country that forbids gay sex, forbids chewing gum, forbids importing porn, punishes possession of relatively small amounts of drugs with death and basically has no respect for human rights whatsoever, as a fucking example?!/(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
Yes but in both cases the sellers are fueling the problemsOriginally posted by punkworld
I feel that human rights should be earnt, I don't believe that we should have a disrespect for human life period but I do believe that we should have different rules that apply to different people.Originally posted by punkworld
It annoys me that in western societies criminals have the same human rights as us upstanding citizens who work hard for our money, pay taxs and do not break the law. We are valuable members of society.
I do not appreciate the fact that a criminal can murder someone, end their victims life, do 5 or 10 years max in prison (refering to the Uk here) and then be out walking the streets again. Its morally very very wrong in my opinion, these people do not deserve the same human rights as you nor I. Where is the justice for the victim ? The victim no longer has a life, not only is that not fair its not morally right.
I know I have made this point before but i feel that with most crimes in western society the punishment does not fit the crime and its not fair on the victims or society.
I disagree, as I've said above I can not value the life of someone who is barbaric and dangerous to others. They should not be allowed the same human rights as the rest of us, clearly these type of people do not value human life so why should anyone respect their human rights?Originally posted by punkworld
Btw very nice theory on how to combat the problem
It would be interesting to see how it would work out, I could certainly see that significantly reducing the problem.
Comment
-
I'm curious where has this been implemented ?Originally posted by punkworld
As I've said I think they have no human rights for the right people. The people that violate the human rights of othersOriginally posted by punkworldComment
-
That was true but it is now perfectly legal to chew gum in the streets of Singapore.Originally posted by Redrob
But I don't feel sorry for this guy one bit. He cannot say he wasn't aware that he was carrying drugs and he cannot say he wasn't aware of Singapore's harsh punishment for drug related offences.
He wasn't some retard who didn't know what he was doing. He was a 25 year old reasonably intelligent man but had more balls than brains.
May he rest in peace.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
-
Originally posted by Coatsy
Blah blah blah, drugs dont kill people, people using drugs too much kill themselves.Comment
-
Some 420 people have been hanged in Singapore
heh
Comment
-
He was hung 3 years after his crime.. I think he lived long enuff.
They even warn u before you get off the plane that drug trafficking in Singapore carries the death penalty...
Its not illegal to CHEW gum, its juz illegal to sell gum.. for umm cleaniness at least u won't go into a class with chairs and tables populated with gum under them..SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Let me repeat... A 120 x 60 button and no more that 3 lines of DEFAULT SIZE AND COLOR text.Comment
-
Parts of it have been experimented with in several parts of Europe, including The Netherlands and Germany.Originally posted by Coatsy
In this post, like in the last, you make it clear that you don't subscribe to the idea of human rights. "Human rights" refers to the concept of human beings having universal rights.Originally posted by Coatsy
The ideas that all human rights have to be earned, and that those who violate laws can be punished in any possible way that is considered the most efficient, whether just, unjust, cruel or unusual, is a very dangerous idea, at least in my opinion. It places no importance of the just treatment of the individual, and thereby removes any obligation from the individual to abide the rules of the state. Essentially, the model you are a proponent of is that of the repressive state, which keeps its citizens in line by forcing them.
Me, I am a supporter of the state respecting its citizens, and indeed existing solely for its citizens. The kind of state I support is one which ultimately relies on its citizens cooperating willingly, realizing that following the laws is in their own best interest. That kind of state is its own intrinsic legitimation, whereas the type you are in favour of uses force as its legitimation./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
I'm sorry he got hung, i'm against death penalty. However, it's Singapore's country, they make the laws, if you want to go there, or live there you must follow them. If you don't like the laws, don't go there. For those that have been to Singapore, the impression left with me was a very friendly, clean and safe country. They also make it very very obvious the penalties involved with commiting crimes, no one can play it stupid, "oh i didn't know". The poor bastard for some stupid reason throught the only way to pay his brothers debts was to do the drug running, that run happened to go through Singapore, he took the risk and paid the price. It also isn't the first time he has done this, he knew the penalties.Comment
-
It's a bit tough to hang the poor guy. I feel sorry for him. I just can't imagine how he was feeling with a noose around his neck, realizing those were the last moments of his life... That sucks.Comment
-
well, somehow you will feel sorry for him but thinking how many lives was destroyed because of drugs??? maybe that will teach him and also those who's working on that same thing...Comment
-
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.Comment
-
Originally posted by Th!nk
he's dead.
Yea, that will teach him.
hey Singapore...
Comment
-
Anyone who even enters Singapore with residue on their fingers in a moron.
They don't fuck around over there.Comment
-
Drugs and guns dont kill people.Originally posted by Th!nk
People kill people, and people kill themselves.
Singapore is dead to me. As im sure it is to alot of other poeple now.
There economy ought to take a nice hit for that, and it will be well deserved.
People can sit and say all they want about "Oh, but its there laws, and people need to have a respect for their culture" I say fuck there culture.
I say there culture doesnt deserve any respect, and it ought to be dealt with in the same way they conduct themselves.
You say have respect for their culture????? What respect did they show to his culture? No direct harm was done.Comment
-
Originally posted by TreasureBucks
The intellect level here scares me sometimes.Comment
-
Originally posted by baddogGlass houses, etc.Originally posted by baddog/(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
But they should take your money so they can prepare you for retirement, possible unemployment, and provide health care?Originally posted by punkworld
Talk about being treated like a child.Comment
-
Originally posted by punkworld
What the hell is that supposed to mean?Comment
-
Originally posted by TreasureBuckshe's dead.
Yea, that will teach him.
hey Singapore...
Comment
-
That "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" isn't exactly a bright statement either.Originally posted by baddog
It can be used just as well to defend the position that China executing people for speaking out in favour of democracy is just./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
So what's your point? That if they take it to a certain degree, they might as well follow up all the way through and take away any responsibility citizens have, treating them as children completely?Originally posted by broke/(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
I doubt he didn't knew what were the risks...
I for one am seriously thinking in visiting Singapore on long-term...glad to see they don't fuck around
Comment
-
Were you so whiny last time China executed someone? I must have missed it.Originally posted by punkworld
Fact of the matter remains, only a twit would ignore the laws of the land in a country they were passing through or traveling to...Comment
-
My point is YOU don't get it both ways...Originally posted by punkworld
Either leave citizens alone and left them make their own decisions -- or -- don't.Last edited by broke; 12-03-2005, 02:03 PM.Comment
-
Originally posted by punkworld
As stated above, the intellect here scares me sometimes.
Do not, I repeat, do not do the crime if you can not handle the consequences. Fucking kids these days raised with no sense of responsibility.
If you want to be a gangster, be advised, if you get caught you will be penalized.Comment
-
Sounds like a personal problem. Ignorance of the law and all that.Originally posted by RuiComment
-
News flash: chewinggum isn't illegal anymore.Originally posted by stevo
The vast majority of the population support the death penalty.
I have no sympathy for someone who does not / is not smart enough to respect the very rigid, and very public laws of another country.Comment
-
Funny how people attack me for "just" talking about execution in the US, and "just" the ones in Iran, and "just" the ones in China, and "just" the ones in Singapore... I am talking about Singapore because that's the topic at hand. If China were the topic at hand, I would be critical of China's blatant disrespect of human rights. See how that works?Originally posted by broke
As for the guy being an idiot, of course he is. Executing people just for being idiots, however, is unjust. The punishment should fit the crime, and in this case that clearly is not the case./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
I do feel bad for him and his family. Drug dealer or not, I'm sure this is rough on all around him.
However, you can't say he didn't deserve it. If you arre going to traffic drugs, you better know what the laws are in the countries you are taking them to or through. Spend the extra money to fly through a country without a death penelty for what you are doing.
TWISTYSCASH.com - Proven to be One of the BEST Adult Programs Around
Promote These Sites : Twistys ~ Busty Ones ~ Nicole Graves
ICQ : 9 6 4 4 0 2 2 1Comment
-
So you're saying things should be either black or white, but never anything in between? Because, presumably, gray is a really evil colour that will rape your granny and eat your pets?Originally posted by broke/(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
-
So you believe that no country has soverign rights and they should all do what you'd like? That laws shouldn't apply to foreigners when they travel to a country?Originally posted by punkworldComment
Comment