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Belgium backs gay adoption plans

12-02-2005, 04:20 AM

Belgian MPs have backed plans to allow adoption by gay couples, two years after legalising same-sex marriage.

The lower house of Belgium's parliament voted 77-62 in favour of the measure, which must also pass the upper house.

If fully approved, Belgium will become the third EU country, after Sweden and Spain, to allow same-sex adoption.

Belgium campaigners say that many children are currently cared for by homosexual couples, but without adequate legal protection.

The law will grant gay couples in Belgium the same rights as heterosexual couples, allowing them to adopt children from anywhere in the world.

In Germany and Denmark, homosexual adoption is limited to the partners' biological children.

Final approval by the upper house, or Senate, is expected in March.

sounds very bad idea to me
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#2

12-02-2005, 04:22 AM

3rd? isnt that allowed in holland too? thought so. So why is that bad? Youre gonna post the theyll get gay too crap?

edit : I know for sure, some tv-famous gay couples adopted

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#3

12-02-2005, 04:26 AM

it is bad idea because a kid to grow up normally needs both a father and a mother figure. I could see such adoption as option only after having done with all qualified male-female couples. And yes like it or not people in today's society a kid with 2 female or 2 male parents will end up with issues that will bother it for the rest of his life.
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#4

12-02-2005, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

it is bad idea because a kid to grow up normally needs both a father and a mother figure.

Says who? Its 2005 not 1860.

So if your daugher is gonna be lesbian youll never become a granddad.

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#5

12-02-2005, 04:29 AM

Well, at least the kids will have some sort of parents, rather than living in an orphanage.
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#6

12-02-2005, 04:30 AM

We allow it too(netherlands) and is it a bad thing? dunno. I mean look at some parents(male/female combi), who can not even raise a dog. They have 5 kids, don't get attention at all etc...

A kid needs love and attention.

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#7

12-02-2005, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

it is bad idea because a kid to grow up normally needs both a father and a mother figure. I could see such adoption as option only after having done with all qualified male-female couples. And yes like it or not people in today's society a kid with 2 female or 2 male parents will end up with issues that will bother it for the rest of his life.

Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth.

http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

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#8

12-02-2005, 04:31 AM

I think you are the one missing current society's standards.
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#9

12-02-2005, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by who

Well, at least the kids will have some sort of parents, rather than living in an orphanage.

exactly.

so many kids with a life that sucks like hell. Theyd be a lot better of growing up in a steady enviroment home house study food friends then in some shithole.

Cant believe there are ppl still pre-judging like that. That whole they need a mom and a dad issue is complete crap. Never proofed just based on assumptions

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#10

12-02-2005, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by punkworld

http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

i call bs, if you didnt see the difference of influence in your childhood from your father and mother it's not my fault.
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#11

12-02-2005, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

I think you are the one missing current society's standards.

who? me? lol so because youre proven wrong Im an asshole?

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#12

12-02-2005, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by justsexxx

We allow it too(netherlands) and is it a bad thing? dunno. I mean look at some parents(male/female combi), who can not even raise a dog. They have 5 kids, don't get attention at all etc...

A kid needs love and attention.

True.

A male/female combi says nothing bout how they raise a kid.

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#13

12-02-2005, 04:34 AM

Didn't say you are an asshole, I said you see things from the point of view of a pornographer.
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#14

12-02-2005, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

Didn't say you are an asshole, I said you see things from the point of view of a pornographer.

Sorry but I dont.

The whole gay adoption issue has been there for 15+ yrs. I know cause I was an active politician in a youth party. We talked bout it, had forum groups and even helped writing the texts for the actual law change.

I was in highschool then. Zero to do with porn. So sorry but thats crap.

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#15

12-02-2005, 04:37 AM

calling theking for support
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#16

12-02-2005, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

i call bs, if you didnt see the difference of influence in your childhood from your father and mother it's not my fault.

Notice the url? APA stands for American Psychological Association.

Whether or not you "call bs" does not matter. At all. If you disagree with pretty much all studies to date because you saw "the difference of influence in your childhood from your father and mother", you are being foolish.

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#17

12-02-2005, 04:43 AM

Wont help.

Stating shit thats never proofed based on assumptions never gets there. But its cool. I know there are more ppl like you who think alike. Based on some bible text. Or based on whatever.

Theyll always be a minority. Like I said its 2005.

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#18

12-02-2005, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by punkworld

Notice the url? APA stands for American Psychological Association.

Whether or not you "call bs" does not matter. At all. If you disagree with pretty much all studies to date because you saw "the difference of influence in your childhood from your father and mother", you are being foolish.

At a time everyone said the earth was flat and if you travelled too far youd fall off. It took some time but they corrected their opinion too.

Time is all itll take

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#19

12-02-2005, 04:46 AM

We(The Netherlands) are most of the time one of the first todo stuff like this. Every other country will piss on us. 10 years later they do the same...

Examples:

Weed usage
euthanasia
suplying hard drugs to addicted ppl
Gay marriage
Gay adoption

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#20

12-02-2005, 04:47 AM

this is the problem with this "system". if kids are raised to believe that being "gay" is the norm, then they will likely become gay because that's what they see daddy and daddy doing. gay kids will produce more gay kids and suddenly, gay will be the way to be. the only problem is, if everyone is butt fucking their partner then kids can't be born can they?

the idea of gay couples being able to adopt kids drives me nuts. there is a reason why they CANT have kids, and it's because they're gay couples, not the way nature intended. grrr.

be gay. hang rainbow flags on your balcony. do whatever the fuck you want to do, but keep innocent kids the FUCK OUT OF IT!

Last edited by Luc; 12-02-2005, 04:50 AM.

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#21

12-02-2005, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by Luc

if kids are raised to believe that being "gay" is the norm, then they will likely become gay

Got proof?

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#22

12-02-2005, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by BRISK

Got proof?

well. let me think. if i saw my daddy and my other daddy kissing eachother, hugging eachother, playing with eachother, as a 4 year old boy I'd think that's normal. in fact, i'd grow up the first 10 years of my life thinking that is normal. the critical stages of a childs life might be altered to present this gay perspective as something that's expected of "me".

after all, if during crictical years of a childs development the child is only exposed heavily to gay activity, they'll grow to mimic that activity in their life.

like it or not, we all inherit certain traits which we picked up from our parents while growing up.

of course, this is only true of young kids ages 1-10. older kids will see things in a different light assuming they werent raised by a gay couple.

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#23

12-02-2005, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by Luc

this is the problem with this "system". if kids are raised to believe that being "gay" is the norm, then they will likely become gay because that's what they see daddy and daddy doing. gay kids will produce more gay kids and suddenly, gay will be the way to be. the only problem is, if everyone is butt fucking their partner then kids can't be born can they?

the idea of gay couples being able to adopt kids drives me nuts. there is a reason why they CANT have kids, and it's because they're gay couples, not the way nature intended. grrr.

So you're afraid that if gay couples are allowed to adopt children, humanity will become extinct? And you are able to think that completely seriously?

The truth of the matter is that kids do not have a larger chance to turn out gay if they are raised by gay parents. Look it up, studies have been done.
But you should be able to figure it out for yourself as well. Do you fuck women because "it is the norm" or because you are physically attracted to women? If it is just the first, you probably really are gay. And has it never struck you as odd that gay kids are born even in rabidly anti-gay right-wing conservative families?

Kids who are brought up by gay parents are likely to see being gay as a normal, natural thing, yes. That doesn't mean they will be gay themselves, only that they are less likely to judge gay people based on their sexual orientation.

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12-02-2005, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Luc

well. let me think. if i saw my daddy and my other daddy kissing eachother, hugging eachother, playing with eachother, as a 4 year old boy I'd think that's normal. in fact, i'd grow up the first 10 years of my life thinking that is normal. the critical stages of a childs life might be altered to present this gay perspective as something that's expected of "me".

of course, this is only true of young kids ages 1-10. older kids will see things in a different light assuming they werent raised by a gay couple.

By "proof", I meant have you done any research on the subject? Or are you just making an irrational kneejerk reaction?

I'm guessing irrational kneejerk reaction

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#25

12-02-2005, 05:01 AM

punk. read my response above.

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#26

12-02-2005, 05:03 AM

I didnt reffer to kids turning to gay due to their parents although honestly I don't see a kid that will grow up with 2 male fathers to show desire for girls and vice versa. But again this is not what I'm reffering to at this point and an APA study won't make me change my mind.
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#27

12-02-2005, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by BRISK

By "proof", I meant have you done any research on the subject? Or are you just making an irrational kneejerk reaction?

I'm guessing irrational kneejerk reaction

i'm gonna sound like a dumb fucking redneck here, but i don't have proof and i don't need it.

it's common sense that if a very young child grows up seeing nothing but gay behavior they will consider that behavior normal.

a while back there was a guy in india whos grandpa locked him up in a chicken coop when he was 4 or so. he grew up with the chickens. finally, when they let this poor guy out 15 some years later, he did not know how to speak, and he thought he was a chicken. we walked like a chicken and even ate like a chicken. no bullshit. this was televised on virtually every station when the story broke lose. my point, if you are raised in a certain environment during crictical stages in your development you will consider that environment to be normal.

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#28

12-02-2005, 05:07 AM

Funny that some ppl say that kids will turn into gay, because their parents are gay.

What about this one

So far there are (almost) no gay adoptions. Still there are many gays...How come? Since their parents were heterosexual...

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#29

12-02-2005, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by Luc

i'm gonna sound like a dumb fucking redneck here, but i don't have proof and i don't need it.

I'm gonna sound like an asshole here and say that you do sound like a dumb fucking redneck, and you do need proof.

Go get some empirical research results to support your "common sense"

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#30

12-02-2005, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Luc

punk. read my response above.

Your reasoning isn't entirely unreasonable, but it very clearly is speculation, without any foundation in fact. Studies don't support your speculation, and in fact point exactly the opposite way.

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

I didnt reffer to kids turning to gay due to their parents although honestly I don't see a kid that will grow up with 2 male fathers to show desire for girls and vice versa. But again this is not what I'm reffering to at this point and an APA study won't make me change my mind.

It actually isn't just a single study, but a summary of all research findings so far.

Which leads me to the question... if research (read: the facts) won't change your mind, what will? Are you so attached to your common sense intuitions that you are willing to stick to them even if they aren proven to be false?

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#31

12-02-2005, 05:17 AM

Just read the link you posted carefully and come and tell me these references are enough to take strict position on such important issue. Let me tell you just the very simple thing that aspartame has been researched since early 70s for connection to cancer, it has been banned twice and banned was raised and 2 months ago a new long term study from italian university showed again proof of connection to cancer. FDA immediately requested to re-examine the banning raise and proceed to more studies. Hah,the whole scientific community cannot make a complete judgement about a sugar substitute but is ready to answer on such important issue? I doubt
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#32

12-02-2005, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by BRISK

I'm gonna sound like an asshole here and say that you do sound like a dumb fucking redneck, and you do need proof.

Go get some empirical research results to support your "common sense"

there is insufficient research to prove my point. we won't know the affect gay parents had on young adopted kids until those kids start getting married.

this means anywhere from 15-20 years, and I seriously doubt that there is a study that closely monitored the behavioral traits of kids through that long of a period in gay marriages. if there is, point me to one and wisen me up (and don't use that crap above).

also, i didn't say ALL kids adopted by gay parents will turn gay, however i do believe that they are a lot more likely to do so because they'll think its normal.

Last edited by Luc; 12-02-2005, 05:21 AM.

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#33

12-02-2005, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Luc

i'm gonna sound like a dumb fucking redneck here, but i don't have proof and i don't need it.

Indeed.

There are a lotta wellknown cases in history where ppl reacted like you do now. You might wanna rethink.

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#34

12-02-2005, 05:28 AM

For those of you that don't get from words, songs could work.

This is mother's figure:

Hush, my baby. baby, don?t you cry.
Momma?s gonna make all of your nightmares come true.
Momma?s gonna put all of her fears into you.
Momma?s gonna keep you right here under her wing.
She won?t let you fly, but she might let you sing.
Momma?s gonna keep baby cozy and warm.

and this is father's figure:

Talk about the scheme of things
On a small rock with you
Show me show me show me the way
Before they grind me down
And bleach me grey
Send me power not to be afraid
And when I close my eyes
Let me see you once in the light
Father oh father
Heal me if you can
Is it true what they say
That life is a dream

cheers

Last edited by Theo; 12-02-2005, 05:30 AM.
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#35

12-02-2005, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by punkworld

So you're afraid that if gay couples are allowed to adopt children, humanity will become extinct? And you are able to think that completely seriously?

The truth of the matter is that kids do not have a larger chance to turn out gay if they are raised by gay parents. Look it up, studies have been done.
But you should be able to figure it out for yourself as well. Do you fuck women because "it is the norm" or because you are physically attracted to women? If it is just the first, you probably really are gay. And has it never struck you as odd that gay kids are born even in rabidly anti-gay right-wing conservative families?

Kids who are brought up by gay parents are likely to see being gay as a normal, natural thing, yes. That doesn't mean they will be gay themselves, only that they are less likely to judge gay people based on their sexual orientation.

But honestly what about the examples of the whole bisexual culture now that means apparently every woman in the world would like to fuck another woman? Do you think it was always that way? Or what about when straight men who even hate homosexuals go to prison and within a few years start raping men up the ass? I am not saying you will turn gay if you are raised by two gay parents, but I think there is quite possibly a greater chance of you being more inclined towards being bisexual atleast.

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#36

12-02-2005, 05:29 AM

cool lets all post crap cause when you cant back up the shit you say theres always a song

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#37

12-02-2005, 05:31 AM

I just wanted to point out the fact that just because the "parents" are man and woman does not mean anything.

The divorce rate for "straight" people is over 50% so we start with that.

Now, also consider all the ways a "straight" person can be messed up. How can a child be raised normally with all of those possibilities for the parents being a wreck?

Very quickly you should realize that saying a child raised by "straight" people is a good thing . . is probably not accurate.

You might have a better argument if you say that a child raised by "good" people is a good thing.

Sorry, just stating the obvious.
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#38

12-02-2005, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

Just read the link you posted carefully and come and tell me these references are enough to take strict position on such important issue. Let me tell you just the very simple thing that aspartame has been researched since early 70s for connection to cancer, it has been banned twice and banned was raised and 2 months ago a new long term study from italian university showed again proof of connection to cancer. FDA immediately requested to re-examine the banning raise and proceed to more studies. Hah,the whole scientific community cannot make a complete judgement about a sugar substitute but is ready to answer on such important issue? I doubt

So you're saying that rather than relying on the studies we have, we should go for pure, unfounded speculation instead?

The studies we have so far point in a single direction. Of course, they aren't fully conclusive, but few things ever are. However, if the APA, the biggest psychological association in the world representing 150000 psychologists, sees evidence so far as a reason to adopt the official position that same-sex couples do not do any worse at parenting than traditional couples, I think that would be a good reason to reconsider your own position.
(here's the document stating their official position, btw: http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/parents.html )

But aside from that, are you willing to set aside the whole of science, which is responsible for the very computer you are reading this post on, simply because there is occasional disagreement on certain issues?

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#39

12-02-2005, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Chief

But honestly what about the examples of the whole bisexual culture now that means apparently every woman in the world would like to fuck another woman? Do you think it was always that way? Or what about when straight men who even hate homosexuals go to prison and within a few years start raping men up the ass? I am not saying you will turn gay if you are raised by two gay parents, but I think there is quite possibly a greater chance of you being more inclined towards being bisexual atleast.

Thats crap and you know it is.

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#40

12-02-2005, 05:32 AM

Homosexuality is just a fad.
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#41

12-02-2005, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by Hey You . . . I Know You!

I just wanted to point out the fact that just because the "parents" are man and woman does not mean anything.

The divorce rate for "straight" people is over 50% so we start with that.

Now, also consider all the ways a "straight" person can be messed up. How can a child be raised normally with all of those possibilities for the parents being a wreck?

Very quickly you should realize that saying a child raised by "straight" people is a good thing . . is probably not accurate.

You might have a better argument if you say that a child raised by "good" people is a good thing.

Sorry, just stating the obvious.

True.

And good means a whole lotta different issues then gay or straight. Its about the human rights to have a home, food, education. And not bout gay or not.

Glad someone gets it amonst all the facts benders and cause I say so truths.

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#42

12-02-2005, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by punkworld

So you're saying that rather than relying on the studies we have, we should go for pure, unfounded speculation instead?

sucks uh, but lotsa ppl are like that. they state their truth and tell everyone its the only truth. pre-judging ppl on assumptions is another way of showing stupudity.

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#43

12-02-2005, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by thinkx

cool lets all post crap cause when you cant back up the shit you say theres always a song

nah,let's blindly follow what a university says that happens to have Gay Studies
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Odin

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#44

12-02-2005, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by thinkx

Thats crap and you know it is.

That isn't a very articulate response. Explain to me in all honesty why you don't think the current girl-girl shit never existed in the past? I am not saying I hate it, actually I don't care for it one way or another, just like I don't care for guy-guy stuff. But I think it is pretty obvious that atleast a good portion of these girls are doing it just because it is so socially acceptable and even actively encouraged by a heap of guys who do like it. So I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination to think that being raised by same-sex parents could have an effect on the sexual orientation of a young person.

I mean, have you ever thought as to how fetishes develop? No doubt there is a genetic element, but there is usually a pretty rational reason behind why someone likes BDSM, or BBW, or some other such thing. I think there is certainly an environmental factor involved in sexuality, how much of a role it plays I don't know, I guess time will tell, but I think it is certainly something to look at. Unless of course the PC Police make that illegal in your country.

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DutchTeenCash

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#45

12-02-2005, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

nah,let's blindly follow what a university says that happens to have Gay Studies

if you can show me proof that gay parents produce gay kids ill be more then happy to post I was wrong. Until then I prefer a uni study above your I said so opinion.

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BRISK

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#46

12-02-2005, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Luc

there is insufficient research to prove my point. we won't know the affect gay parents had on young adopted kids until those kids start getting married.

this means anywhere from 15-20 years, and I seriously doubt that there is a study that closely monitored the behavioral traits of kids through that long of a period in gay marriages. if there is, point me to one and wisen me up (and don't use that crap above).

also, i didn't say ALL kids adopted by gay parents will turn gay, however i do believe that they are a lot more likely to do so because they'll think its normal.

There is decades of research on how gay parents will affect their children's sexual orientation. I've never heard of any study that support your ideas.

The bulk of evidence to date indicates that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are no more likely to become homosexual than children raised by heterosexuals. As one researcher put it, "If heterosexual parenting is insufficient to ensure that children will also be heterosexual, then there is no reason to conclude that children of homosexuals also will be gay". 11

Studies asking the children of gay fathers to express their sexual orientation showed the majority of children to be heterosexual, with the proportion of gay offspring similar to that of a random sample of the population. An assessment of more than 300 children born to gay or lesbian parents in 12 different samples shows no evidence of "significant disturbances of any kind in the development of sexual identity among these individuals". 12

http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/f_gay/f_gayb.cfm

http://www.openadopt.org/adoptive_parents/gl-facts.html

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Theo

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#47

12-02-2005, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by punkworld

So you're saying that rather than relying on the studies we have, we should go for pure, unfounded speculation instead?

The studies we have so far point in a single direction. Of course, they aren't fully conclusive, but few things ever are. However, if the APA, the biggest psychological association in the world representing 150000 psychologists, sees evidence so far as a reason to adopt the official position that same-sex couples do not do any worse at parenting than traditional couples, I think that would be a good reason to reconsider your own position.
(here's the document stating their official position, btw: http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/parents.html )

But aside from that, are you willing to set aside the whole of science, which is responsible for the very computer you are reading this post on, simply because there is occasional disagreement on certain issues?

you missed my 2nd post, i said to examine this chance after having done with all qualified for adoption male-female couples. At this very given moment even for couples that meet all requirements is not easy to adopt a child.
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Theo

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#48

12-02-2005, 05:42 AM

webmasters out of the closet!

j/k
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Hey You . . . I Know You!

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#49

12-02-2005, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel

nah,let's blindly follow what a university says that happens to have Gay Studies

Hey dude!

What about a child being raised by parents of a different race? In your opinion, is that worse than a child being raised by a couple that is gay, or is that equally as bad?
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Damian_Maxcash

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#50

12-02-2005, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Luc

there is insufficient research to prove my point. we won't know the affect gay parents had on young adopted kids until those kids start getting married.

this means anywhere from 15-20 years, and I seriously doubt that there is a study that closely monitored the behavioral traits of kids through that long of a period in gay marriages. if there is, point me to one and wisen me up (and don't use that crap above).

also, i didn't say ALL kids adopted by gay parents will turn gay, however i do believe that they are a lot more likely to do so because they'll think its normal.

You say that if children see it as normal they will choose to be gay..

Why do you assume that people choose to be gay? Did you have a choice to be str8?

Did you wake up one morning and think - "well I will have to ignore all my sexual feelings towords the boys at my school because I dont think it is normal"?.

If thats the case then I have some news for you.... its called being in the closet.
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