Originally posted by Young
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Well according to you all I need is to get a girl to sign a napkin saying anything he shoots is his to do with whatever he sees fit, and that's a perfect model release form.
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All she's saying is if you don't have the proper verbage, you could be in trouble. Really, is she wrong?Originally posted by YoungVacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted
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you realize that some webmaster is going to read this and send you a fake fan mail saying exactly this statementOriginally posted by sonofsami've been lucky, noones really been a creep... most people are like "you're beautiful... tell me more about yourself etc"
the day when those emails turn into "i've printed pictures of you and taped them to my pillow" ... is the day i outsource the emails
“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve WozniakComment
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This post is wrong .Originally posted by Young
Sorry you misunderstood what my point was .
Bottom line is ,
These contracts will help you but not in all cases save you .
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model release forms when done right usually can't be challenged in court. Usually the only disputable thing is whether the model actually signed the release, or whether it was forged. Everyone remember the Cameron Diaz case?196-900-713Comment
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(1) Can you define 'pictures'? Is it a photo? For print? Is digital imagery 'pictures'? Are reproductions included in that definition? Copies? What about photo altering? Was the definition spelled out to the model? Can you prove it?Originally posted by Young
(2) These 'pictures' were published on a website described as 'cum slurping whores'. Did the model realize her likeness would be used in such a derogatory manner? Where did she agree to that? This sounds like libel, sir... (this argument has actually won in trial before...and it wasn't even porn. A modeling agency sold photos to a magazine, who published it in an acceptable manner. However, in the facing page, completely unrelated to the photograph, was an article on 'teenage prostitution'. It was argued and won that the implication was the model was one such prostitute, and she won on libel.)
(3) These photos 'belong to' you? Can you define that term? 'Belong to' does not imply ownership, simply possession. Do you have the right to reassign rights to others? Who else works on that site? If it's not solely operated by you, how do your associates have the right to use these pictures? Where did the model agree that the use of these pictures was not restricted to your personal possession? Since you are selling memberships, are you not technically selling rights to these photos? I see nowhere in your contract that grants you these rights.
(4) Pursuant to 2257, you are required to list all names and/or pseudonyms ever used by the model. Where was the collection of this data?
(5) Can you prove 'good and valuable consideration'? Under some laws, failure to do so could negate the contract.
(6) Was the model under the influence of alcohol, drugs or medicines that may have impaired her decision making capabilities?
I'm not trying to be an ass, but I did want to illustrate that even the most straight-forward legal document can contain 'loopholes' or counter-arguments that could cause headaches...Comment
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If young is prelaw and says all that is needed is a signature on a napkin he may want to consider a different profession.
Either that, or he is not well versed in what is needed to have a proper model release form.
Also keep in mind that we have no idea what was stated in the contract he has with Julia, there are always clauses for many issues that may arise. I know every contract we have out there right now we have an out at anytime if anything does arise that may affect our biz.Comment
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Excellent post , but to the person you are addressing it to , according to himOriginally posted by ModelPerfect
Originally posted by YoungComment
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No she is right...but her argument changed as the thread got deeper and deeper.Originally posted by Sly
Anybody who doesnt get a lawyer to draft up a release form is a moron.★★★
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Yes I would agree on this one .Originally posted by AdultMegaCash
Thanks for stating this AdultMegaCash
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It is clear you still don't know what is going on .Originally posted by Young
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hahaha OK...about the napkin. Are contracts drafted up on Napkins legal and enforciable. YES! Should you guys have taken my 20 second draft of a contract literally....no. Its fucking 3am give me a break..i was proven a point.
AdultMegaCash you maybe should find a new career if you are going to decieve your affiliates and not tell them the truth. Seriously...business ethics 101 buddy.
WebGurl...I didn't mean to internet fight with you.
And for the record. Anyone who doesn't get a model release form drafter up by a lawyer is a moron.
http://www.apogeephoto.com/mag4-6/adultlon.htm
No loopholes there webgurl. thats the point i was trying to make.★★★
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I don't think it changed. I think she wasn't clear originally. As she continued to post, it became more clear what she had always been saying.Originally posted by YoungVacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted
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Oh please, give me a fucking break. Go hang out with Donovan Phillips with that pussy fucking attitude.Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
He never said he was friends with her. He never conned her. She knew what she was getting into. Internet porn sites are nothing new, this girl knew what the outcome was going to be. You make it sound like he did something wrong. How is some dumb bitch flaking out on him bad business? Stop trying to sound like you're some kind of fucking saint.
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Your napkin thing proved a bad point, a contract like that would not hold up in court for the simple fact that a model release requires a lot more information.Originally posted by Young
How exactly do I decieve my affiliates?Comment
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Sly that is fair. But when someone says "Model Release Form" I am assuming you have a legitimate "Model Release Form" which has all aspects covered. No model and no amount of money is going to challenge a contract with all aspects covered.Originally posted by Sly★★★
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Originally posted by AdultMegaCashThere.....affiliates should be considered as partners.Originally posted by AdultMegaCashAs far as bringing the loss of the model here, I find that to be a bad choice. This already lets webmasters know that there is no possibility of fan signs, custom themed content, live cam shows for members and many other things. Not to mention that soon the content will run out.
before telling me to go find a new career maybe you should re-examine yourself.★★★
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How much for those sets?Originally posted by ModelPerfect
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icq: 111-914
CrazyBabe.com - porn art
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I totally agree that contracts drafted on napkins are legal and binding, but I think you actually proved opposite your point...with all intended and due respect.Originally posted by Young
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Young , there are lots of people in this business that don't know what they're doing .Originally posted by Young
Do not "assume" anything. You are dealing with a bunch of amateurs here and I am not talking about the talents .
Having proper model release forms and having all aspects covered (not likely) to happen .
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again...i wasn't being literal. she was claiming to be such an expert on loopholes. I didn't expect you to walk in hereOriginally posted by ModelPerfectI totally agree that contracts drafted on napkins are legal and binding, but I think you actually proved opposite your point...with all intended and due respect. 
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OK...can i have a hug nowOriginally posted by webgurlYoung , there are lots of people in business that don't know what they're doing .
Do not "assume" anything you are dealing with a bunch of amateurs here and I am not talking about the talents .
Having proper model release forms and having all aspects covered (not likely) to happen .
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Originally posted by Young
My affiliates I bend over backwords for, always have always will. I said if I was in this situation I would not be going public with all of it. There is a reason we do not run solo girl sites, we have enough headaches as it is.
And look around, not many people post the day to day lives of what's going on with their models on the boards. At the end of the day you do what's best for your business.
So what you are saying is be honest to the webmasters, and lie to the end users, the people who actually pay both of our bills? Send e mails from her even though it's not her, in your world in what you are saying the site should say "we have 2 years of updates and that's it."
What about the joins and recurring memberships that are going to fall off in 2 years once the updates stop? The main thing that makes solo sites attractive is how good they retain. Isn't retention going to fall off drastically in 2 years where there are no more updates? How is that looking out for the webmasters? or partners?Comment
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No problem and no offense meant. I just find this subject very interesting, and as a content provider, very important.Originally posted by Youngagain...i wasn't being literal. she was claiming to be such an expert on loopholes. I didn't expect you to walk in here 
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Too often GFY is like a boy's club, and at it's worst, like a good old boy's club.
Once in awhile it is worth trying to see things from the perspective of others.
The reality is that 99% of the models that I have worked with (and I've worked with hundreds of models), have no problem whatsoever with the work that they have done while working for me.
In those few occasions when someone has expressed regrets, I have tried to understand things from their perspective, while also trying to get them to understand the impact that pulling their content has on my business.
Certainly, operating solo model sites is a precarious proposition since if the model bails, that has a much bigger impact on your bottom line than if you are operating a multi-model site.
As I noted earlier, I took down my first solo model site due to a falling out with the model. I have few regrets for doing so, and feel confident that I made the correct decision under the circumstances (sometimes you need to know when to fold 'em).
In another instance, I had a solo model who shot some hardcore content early on, but before it was released asked me not to post it. What a dilemna. Over the nearly three years that she was active on the site, she had several thousand sign-ups.
I guarantee you that I would probably have easily made $100,000 extra if I released that content, but instead I still make lots of money in residual income from that site (even thought the site has not been updated in a few years), and more importantly I still have a good friend, who for her part in our joint venture, was able to pay for a new car, get braces on her teeth (I talked her out of fake boobs), and paid for college - she is now a nurse.
I'm not telling SoS what to do. He has to make his own decisions. I certainly don't know all the facts in his case. The only reason I spoke up is because I figured that most people would jump on the "she signed the contract, so fuck her" bandwagon, and there are other ways to deal with this issue.
As he is batting zero for two, operating solo sites may not be the kind of work SoS is best cut out for. There are other areas in adult or mainstream that he may excel at. Hopefully he learned more from this experience than simply shoot as much content as possible upfront and then you don't have to give a shit about the model afterwards.
I have genuinely cared about nearly everyone that I have worked with, and I am glad that I can count many of the models I have worked with as dear and loyal friends to this day. The money I have made is great, but the friendships are priceless.
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Haha lying to the end user isn't something that is uncommon. Bangbus, College Fuck Fest etc etc period They all lie to the end user...sending a bogus e-mail and creating a fantasy is no different then fooling a surfer into thinking those situations are actually "real". Its what they pay for...the illusion.Originally posted by AdultMegaCash
Everything else you said I respect.
In 2 years retention is going to fall whether he tells webmasters or not. Why not prepare them for it...let them decide whether to stay on...instead of bringing them along for the ride.★★★
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Respond to my post please.Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDudeComment
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Originally posted by Young
So we agree to disagree. Simple for me, just do not touch solo girl sites. It's a tough call, I was not at all bashing SoS, but was just making my point in our discussion. This is an always changing industry so you must always be on top of it plain and simple.
As far as model releases and contracts go, make sure you get it done right, consult with people, and have a lawyer always look them over. You will not regret in in the long run. As I have said I have had many contracts come across my desk that people leave theyselves wide open on and make it easy to fuck them over if you wanted to.
Nice discussion everyone, if only it could happen here more often.Comment
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Check out my earlier discussion about race with escorpio. no racial slurs tossed around. it was amazing.Originally posted by AdultMegaCash
I wasn't aware if you did solo or not but I'm gonna check out your site portfolio now.★★★
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What a retarded slut
RecurCash.com - Averaging $38/sale with 60% revshare in the first 4 months alone!
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Originally posted by Young
Sounds good, we are doing a lot of changes, feel free to contact me on icq at 703 032. Won't mention them here as I do not want to thread jackComment
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cool will do tomorrow. btw...i have an opinion on absolutely everything. and sometimes ill put my foot in my mouth but its usually just for a second and then i'll recoverOriginally posted by AdultMegaCash and the closest i have gotten to law school is taking the LSAT's..172. Id rather be doing this though.
night all.★★★
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if ha has contracs then ha contracts trump your contract.hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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Didn't see any questions in your last few posts...so how's this:Originally posted by Shoehorn!
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Nothing wrong with having an opinion, many people are opinionated. It's understanding that not everyone is going to share the same opinion as you and not being offended if they disagree that's importantOriginally posted by Youngcool will do tomorrow. btw...i have an opinion on absolutely everything. and sometimes ill put my foot in my mouth but its usually just for a second and then i'll recover and the closest i have gotten to law school is taking the LSAT's..172. Id rather be doing this though.
night all.Comment
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http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=114Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
There you go.Comment
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Originally posted by Shoehorn!
I've been accused of being many things, but never of being a saint, LOL.Originally posted by Shoehorn
Could be wrong, but I was presuming that SoS did not always think that Julia Blue was a "dumb bitch".
Anyway, I don't know that Julia flaked out on SoS. I am guessing that there is much more to this story than is being presented. In any case, it sounds like she is the one that is taking the hit here, not SoS - since he has indicated that he intends to milk her/his site for as much as he can until he runs out of content.
Afterall, that is the GFY hairy-chested manly thing to do...
I just hope he doesn't get whacked before he spends all the money. That would suck.
I guess at least he will have been whacked standing up for a principle ("she signed the release"), so he will be remembered on GFY as a stand-up guy.
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the links are passed through sexfeeder.comOriginally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
Traffic Rank for sexfeeder.com: 87,279
but regardless if the alexa rank is 1 million, or 100... the fact is people put time into making freesites and other promotional material.. and what does that say of me if i don't defend their hard work? as the program owner, it is my responsiblity to make sure i don't fuck my affiliates around.
Why not? i don't give a fuck... i'm honest as fuck, even if it will hurt my business.. the fact is i have updates for 2 years.. a solo girl site does not HAVE to have a live cam feed to work. and if some affiliates decide that they don't want to promote her site anymore because shes flaked, then so bet it. Just know that many of the solo sites, are run by the webmaster only and have flaked, just that you don't know about it... i'm just a little more open about shit like this.Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
I just lost all the respect i had for you, and believe me.. i had a lotOriginally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
Since my model flaked, that means i conned her into doing it?
the fact that shes a teenager, doesn't mean shit. shes the same age as me... its not like she couldn't read the model release or listen to what i told her.
If i don't look out for me, who IS going to look out for me?Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
Just because the model is stupid and changes her mind, means i should lose all the money i've invested, and that all the affiliates should lose their work too?
How do you figure?
Maybe you can afford to take the hit. i can't.
Look up "Julia Blue" 's username.. look at the signature .. "this is really a guy posting, flirting for traffic"Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
i made that username up as a joke for all the webmasters who POST as their solo girls on the forums. Could NOT make it any more obvious.I like turtles.Comment
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I am not going to argue with you anyone, you obviously can't have discuss something without veering off topic or posting stupid pictures, this isn't the pic tennis thread, and I am not goofing around here. Like I told sonofsam a minute ago on ICQ, I expected more from you, but whatever. I too have lost all respect for you.Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDudeI've been accused of being many things, but never of being a saint, LOL.
Could be wrong, but I was presuming that SoS did not always think that Julia Blue was a "dumb bitch".
Anyway, I don't know that Julia flaked out on SoS. I am guessing that there is much more to this story than is being presented. In any case, it sounds like she is the one that is taking the hit here, not SoS - since he has indicated that he intends to milk her/his site for as much as he can until he runs out of content.
Afterall, that is the GFY hairy-chested manly thing to do...
I just hope he doesn't get whacked before he spends all the money. That would suck.
I guess at least he will have been whacked standing up for a principle ("she signed the release"), so he will be remembered on GFY as a stand-up guy.
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What a fucked up thing to say....Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
and btw.. i'm not worried about hells angels coming after me.. want to know why? because people who actually know anybody, do not namedrop them like that, they would get slapped in the head.
and here you go.... something i made for you.
I like turtles.Comment
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Originally posted by sonofsamWhat a fucked up thing to say....
and btw.. i'm not worried about hells angels coming after me.. want to know why? because people who actually know anybody, do not namedrop them like that, they would get slapped in the head.
and here you go.... something i made for you.
Is he wearing a suit and cape?Comment
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yah man... captain save a hoe at his finest... coming to rid the world of "evil porn people, who con wide eyed teenages into the devils trade"Originally posted by Shoehorn!
Is he wearing a suit and cape?
god how evil i am... going over the model release with her and explaining everything that would happen.I like turtles.Comment
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Originally posted by sonofsam
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If you're going to try and rationalize, than at least try and do so rationally.
Honestly, you missed most of my points...
Did you once care about Julia as a person, instead of simply as a means to enrich yourself? If so, then what went wrong (especially so quickly)?
What is/was her longterm vested interest in the site? Was she entitled to a share of the profits, or was she just a model for hire? What was her understanding of the deal? That could be what is at the crux of the issue.
You have taken what I wrote out of context and as an attack on you when I was simply trying to open things up for a debate, instead of having this be a "bash the model who is not here to defend herself session".
Since you acknowledge posting under the juliablue fake nick, would you be opposed to her coming onto GFY and sharing her perspective?
Believe it or not, a lot can be learned about business ethics, solo model sites, sponsor/affiliate relationships and many other pertinent issues, in such an open discussion.
I think if you read back at what I actually wrote as opposed to how you are interpreting what I wrote, than you will see that I made no specific attack on you.
It's possible that you are in the right. I was simply trying to stimulate discourse on this since I pointed out that I also have firsthand experience with situations such as what you are dealing with, however I found acceptable alternative methods for resolving them amicably for all.
On the otherhand, maybe you did screw Julia (figuratively, not literally - although I don't know about that either), in which case you might want to re-examine your own actions/attitudes, or at least not repeat the same mistakes.
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Right.... by saying stuff likeOriginally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
"i hope he doesn't get whacked before he spends the money. that would suck"
yah, i'm sure it wasn't a personal attack... get fucking real.
It has become clear to me, that you take your relationships too far with your models... business is business and pleasure is pleasure...
apparently you have let them get mixed, and now its starting to cloud your thinking...
listen to yourself. You're suggesting i take down the site, out of the goodness of my heart..
WHY THE FUCK WOULD I DO THAT?
I HAVE A MODEL RELEASE. I EXPLAINED EVERYTHING TO HER BEFORE HAND.
because she has a change of heart i'm supposed to FUCK MYSELF, and FUCK MY AFFILIATES?
Hey ADG.. out of the goodness of your heart, send me all the money i have invested in her site, and pay me for all the time/sweat and headache i have put into her site... and then i'll take it down... okay... out of the goodness of your heart you should do this... be captain save a hoe.
get real.Last edited by sonofsam; 11-17-2005, 12:30 AM.I like turtles.Comment
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What if I only kiss your ass and agree to always have the same opinions as you? NAH!!!!Originally posted by Shoehorn!
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lol that drawing made me spit my starbucks all over the screen. good one SoS.
And I dont think you're doing anything wrong at all. She signed the release forms, she knew it was coming.Comment
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I can only speak for myself, but what pisses me off is when people come in here and try to push their beliefs onto other people. Thats what you did essentially. You thought that she was getting fucked over or whatever, you didn't like it, so you bitched and whined about how she was this poor innocent teenager who was tricked into signing a contract and modeling for several shoots. After that, she was tricked into making money.Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude
You're no better than the very people who are trying to bring us as an industry down. A group of wacked out religious people decide that they're against porn, so everyone should be against it. If you want to talk morals, destroy all your content, take your site offline, get a job as a minister, then you might be qualified to talk about morals. Until then, you're on the same level as the rest of us, so don't think for one fucking second that you're not.Comment
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Fuck off, you know thats not what this is about. Fucking nancy boy.Originally posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDudeComment
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Grab your 150 sonofsam.Comment
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