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DWB

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#1

A models regret...

11-10-2005, 02:38 PM

How many times have you had a model come back to you regretting her filming for you? Or it cost her a job, or is causing family problems or even caused her new boyfriend to beat her ass?

She regrets the shoot. Begs for you to stop selling it. Even offers to buy it from you while she is in tears.

What do you do? I tell them upfront that PORN IS FOREVER and this may happen down the road. At the time they want that cash so my words fall on deaf ears, but when it bites them in the ass... they come back on hands and knees acting like they didn't know.
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#2

11-10-2005, 02:44 PM

Porn's much like gettin' a tattoo. Make up your mind before gettin' in to it.

We've not had a model come back cryin' the blues to us...yet. But in the event it happens, I'd simply explain the situation to her and nicely inform her there's no way we could retract the images.

I might offer to sell her the copyrights, but my asking price would be a helluva lot more than I ever paid her for the modeling gig. I'd factor in the future earning potential of the pics.

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#3

11-10-2005, 02:45 PM

Tell her: You're fucked ...

Want to do another shoot ?

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#4

11-10-2005, 02:47 PM

Unfortunetly you have to stand your ground. i'd never sell it back. it makes it bad for all of us.

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#5

11-10-2005, 02:47 PM

Yea, I have thought about selling this one girls shit back to her but I know she can't afford it. I'm not going into details here but she really got fucked hard when some people found out she made a porno 4 years ago with me. This is the only one I have felt bad for.
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#6

11-10-2005, 02:49 PM

Maybe a blow job every day until her daughter turns 18... at that time her daughter would take over until she got too old. And from 18 - 21 both the mom and the daughter would have to suck it together.

hmmmmm.
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#7

11-10-2005, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Maybe a blow job every day until her daughter turns 18... at that time her daughter would take over until she got too old. And from 18 - 21 both the mom and the daughter would have to suck it together.

hmmmmm.

Now THAT is a good idea!

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#8

11-10-2005, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by RayVega

Unfortunetly you have to stand your ground. i'd never sell it back. it makes it bad for all of us.

What if she wasn't converting well would you sell it back to her then? Say she hits you with price of photo shoot plus say $1000.00 ( I know thats not a lot of money) What then?

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#9

11-10-2005, 03:30 PM

Okay this is actually a good thing. If she isnt selling good then make her an offer. She has to be your sex slave for a week or month or however long. Make up rules for her that she will have to follow if she wants the material back. I hope this situation pops up when I start shooting material.
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#10

11-10-2005, 03:30 PM

I have sooo many photo shoots I can no longer use because girls I shot with have 'retired' from the net and have asked me politely not to use their material any more. Sure, it's a loss, but I can always shoot more. But then that's a bit different because they weren't paid models. We were doing a content/traffic exchange.

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#11

11-10-2005, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by RickLong

Okay this is actually a good thing. If she isnt selling good then make her an offer. She has to be your sex slave for a week or month or however long. Make up rules for her that she will have to follow if she wants the material back. I hope this situation pops up when I start shooting material.

There's are word for that, it's on the tip of my tongue, but I can't quite think of it.... oh ya. Blackmail.
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#12

11-10-2005, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Elli

I have sooo many photo shoots I can no longer use because girls I shot with have 'retired' from the net and have asked me politely not to use their material any more. Sure, it's a loss, but I can always shoot more. But then that's a bit different because they weren't paid models. We were doing a content/traffic exchange.

Content trade is a form of payment... you've been had.
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#13

11-10-2005, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Elli

I have sooo many photo shoots I can no longer use because girls I shot with have 'retired' from the net and have asked me politely not to use their material any more. Sure, it's a loss, but I can always shoot more. But then that's a bit different because they weren't paid models. We were doing a content/traffic exchange.

If you have the 2257 docs, modeling release & signed contract...and you bartered the shoot with traffic commodity and it was spelled out in the contract, I'd say you're not legally obligated to pull the pics.

I've never comprehended how someone can think they can just "retire" from the net. Once released, the pics are out there...period, d/led to people's systems, passed around on forums, communities, newsgroups, etc. Its a geometric progression over time.

I wouldn't have discontinued using the images based on what you related above. Just my

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#14

11-10-2005, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

If you have the 2257 docs, modeling release & signed contract...and you bartered the shoot with traffic commodity and it was spelled out in the contract, I'd say you're not legally obligated to pull the pics.

I've never comprehended how someone can think they can just "retire" from the net. Once released, the pics are out there...period, d/led to people's systems, passed around on forums, communities, newsgroups, etc. Its a geometric progression over time.

I wouldn't have discontinued using the images based on what you related above. Just my

SilentKnight

Often solo girl sites that trade content rarely follow 2257 anyways. Very few also trade releases or use contracts. It typically is a email asking if they wish to trade some content for upsale links inside of each others sites. Ussually very informal.

Then with certain people it is more than the legalities of keeping it. For some they have ethics, personal morals, and the like they wish to uphold. So they just do the right thing and take the stuff down. (not something someone needs to follow if they pay for a shoot though without being finacially compensated).

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#15

11-10-2005, 03:48 PM

Ask her if she wants to take a cumshot in the eye...

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#16

11-10-2005, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by aico

Content trade is a form of payment... you've been had.

True, but they're not using HER content anymore so... ;p

Elli, you are a gentleman.

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SilentKnight

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#17

11-10-2005, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by After Shock Media

Often solo girl sites that trade content rarely follow 2257 anyways. Very few also trade releases or use contracts. It typically is a email asking if they wish to trade some content for upsale links inside of each others sites. Ussually very informal.

Then with certain people it is more than the legalities of keeping it. For some they have ethics, personal morals, and the like they wish to uphold. So they just do the right thing and take the stuff down. (not something someone needs to follow if they pay for a shoot though without being finacially compensated).

True that.

I'm strictly business-motivated myself, and although I have my own code of personal ethics and morals (small, but they're there, heh)...I'd draw the line of simply halting publication because a model flip-flop'd on her decision.

Since we usually work with amateur and first-time models, I usually sit down and talk with the model prior to the shoot and discuss these issues with them beforehand. I make it a habit to point out that the pics are being used on commercial paysites and there's no turning back once they're up. I give them ample opportunity to think it over and change their mind before a shoot.

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#18

11-10-2005, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

If you have the 2257 docs, modeling release & signed contract...and you bartered the shoot with traffic commodity and it was spelled out in the contract, I'd say you're not legally obligated to pull the pics.

I've never comprehended how someone can think they can just "retire" from the net. Once released, the pics are out there...period, d/led to people's systems, passed around on forums, communities, newsgroups, etc. Its a geometric progression over time.

I wouldn't have discontinued using the images based on what you related above. Just my

SilentKnight

I have all the 2257 docs. I've never posted anything on my site without proper docs on hand, due to COPA/CDAII/2257 and all the rest of the impending doom legal threats. That's never been an issue. And yes, of course we agreed that each other owned the material each photog shot and whatnot.

That's not the point. The point is they tracked me down to ask me nicely to help them retire from sight. I've done the standup thing and helped out. However, I assume that until they ask me specifically, they don't mind me using stuff past their retirement. If they shut down their site and don't contact me, then I assume it's all cool with them.

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#19

11-10-2005, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Dagwolf

True, but they're not using HER content anymore so... ;p

Elli, you are a gentleman.

Thank you.

But I'm female. What about "Elli" says male to you? *rolls eyes*

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#20

11-10-2005, 04:11 PM

I wonder, if she offered you a decent amount of money back and sex, you might want to reconsider.

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SilentKnight

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#21

11-10-2005, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Elli

That's not the point. The point is they tracked me down to ask me nicely to help them retire from sight. I've done the standup thing and helped out. However, I assume that until they ask me specifically, they don't mind me using stuff past their retirement. If they shut down their site and don't contact me, then I assume it's all cool with them.

I can appreciate that and all. That's your personal choice to voluntarily remove the images.

However, the way you make it sound - anyone who doesn't take down the photos upon request isn't being a standup person. From my perspective, I'm being standup if I explain to them prior to the shoot that the images are forever and that there's no renegating on the contract. Its business, not personal.

Of course, all this is hypothetical to me...since we've never been contacted by a model. But I'm just not comfortable with the insinuation that we wouldn't be a standup company if we refuse to oblige the model's wishes to remove the images.

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#22

11-10-2005, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

I can appreciate that and all. That's your personal choice to voluntarily remove the images.

However, the way you make it sound - anyone who doesn't take down the photos upon request isn't being a standup person. From my perspective, I'm being standup if I explain to them prior to the shoot that the images are forever and that there's no renegating on the contract. Its business, not personal.

Of course, all this is hypothetical to me...since we've never been contacted by a model. But I'm just not comfortable with the insinuation that we wouldn't be a standup company if we refuse to oblige the model's wishes to remove the images.

SilentKnight

Sorry about that. Most of the models I shot with are personal friends, so that is an added element.

If I had shot with a model who I paid for her work, and explained to her that I owned the photos and she was signing away all rights of complaint and whatnot, then that's her problem if she changes her mind after the fact. Strictly business. There's nothing wrong with that.

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#23

11-10-2005, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Elli

Thank you.

But I'm female. What about "Elli" says male to you? *rolls eyes*

We need a pic totally bottumless we've been fooled before...

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#24

11-10-2005, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Elli

The point is they tracked me down to ask me nicely to help them retire from sight. I've done the standup thing and helped out.

you did the right thing. theres spirit of the law and letter of the law. the spirit of the law is humanitarian. you rock.
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#25

11-10-2005, 04:36 PM

After 30 years of shooting models the one thing i have learnt above all others is never assume anything. As the old saying goes to assume makes an ASS out of U and ME...

Originally posted by Elli

If they shut down their site and don't contact me, then I assume it's all cool with them.
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#26

11-10-2005, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by imageman

After 30 years of shooting models the one thing i have learnt above all others is never assume anything. As the old saying goes to assume makes an ASS out of U and ME...

hehe good point. But unless they contact me, then it's business as usual.

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#27

11-10-2005, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Elli

Thank you.

But I'm female. What about "Elli" says male to you? *rolls eyes*

Maybe the same thing that "Tala" says.

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#28

11-10-2005, 04:59 PM

As former talent, I think it's completely ridiculous for a model to ask for her stuff to be retracted. A deal is a deal, baby... and if someone is going to reject you for doing porn, then that's just that -- live with it. And even if the model gets her stuff pulled, it doesn't mean that she's un-done porn, that she's back to being her "innocent" self... she'll have always been a porn girl who got filmed getting fucked!

Besides, will the people rejecting her care that her stuff is off the internet? Will it make them accept her if every trace of her "transgression" is off the net? Will that make her "innocent" again in their eyes? DOUBTFUL!!!!

And should sensible business people who put the time and effort in to create iron clad contracts suddenly put their own best interests behind some former model's fears about being rejected by some loser? No... that would be considered BAD BUSINESS!

Besides, if you let models get away with this bullshit too (aside from not showing up for work), it just lowers the bar to an even flakier level than we're currently forced to deal with to make a few bucks in porn!
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#29

11-10-2005, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by MaskTVMaura

As former talent, I think it's completely ridiculous for a model to ask for her stuff to be retracted. A deal is a deal, baby... and if someone is going to reject you for doing porn, then that's just that -- live with it. And even if the model gets her stuff pulled, it doesn't mean that she's un-done porn, that she's back to being her "innocent" self... she'll have always been a porn girl who got filmed getting fucked!

Besides, will the people rejecting her care that her stuff is off the internet? Will it make them accept her if every trace of her "transgression" is off the net? Will that make her "innocent" again in their eyes? DOUBTFUL!!!!

And should sensible business people who put the time and effort in to create iron clad contracts suddenly put their own best interests behind some former model's fears about being rejected by some loser? No... that would be considered BAD BUSINESS!

Besides, if you let models get away with this bullshit too (aside from not showing up for work), it just lowers the bar to an even flakier level than we're currently forced to deal with to make a few bucks in porn!

Very well said!
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#30

11-10-2005, 08:33 PM

I don't shoot content anymore but when i did i made it very clear to the girls that sometimes videos get out and posted all over the net and that if they aren't ready for the chance to be identified by co-workers, friends, family, or thier boyfriends then they just need to get up and leave. I had 1 girl come back in tears because she got kicked out of the house by her boyfriend and couldn't come back until she proved she was off the site. I broke even on the video so i thought eh why the hell not. It must have been karma or something because that site has constantly been my best performing one since
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#31

11-10-2005, 08:39 PM

I through down 5k once at a black jack table and I lost. I asked teh casino for it back and they told me no.
I bought a gym membership last october and went 3 times, I am still getting billed and they wont return any of the money for the months i didnt use (oct 2004).

I always stand my ground. Never talk price with a model either to have it taken down. It could be considered extortion. Always just connect them with your attorney.. Let them deal with it. This kind of thing happens all the time. Especially with girls who are doing it to pay of their car insurance.
I cleary state that i can do anything with this content, sell it to whomever, even make a bill board out of it and that it will be published forever. Then I ask them if they understand that and have them repeat to me in their own words what that means. It really cuts the crap down to a minimum.
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#32

11-10-2005, 08:46 PM

Genie out of the bottle.

regardless of it being retracted Piracy will reign.

So even doing what ya can to retract it wouldnt make a difference for a "Heartfelt matter"

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#33

11-10-2005, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by DukeSkywalker

I through down 5k once at a black jack table and I lost. I asked teh casino for it back and they told me no.
I bought a gym membership last october and went 3 times, I am still getting billed and they wont return any of the money for the months i didnt use (oct 2004).

I always stand my ground. Never talk price with a model either to have it taken down. It could be considered extortion. Always just connect them with your attorney.. Let them deal with it. This kind of thing happens all the time. Especially with girls who are doing it to pay of their car insurance.
I cleary state that i can do anything with this content, sell it to whomever, even make a bill board out of it and that it will be published forever. Then I ask them if they understand that and have them repeat to me in their own words what that means. It really cuts the crap down to a minimum.
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#34

11-10-2005, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Them they vomit on your cock.

I love you Duke. :-)

What a long strange trip its been ;)

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#35

11-11-2005, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

True that.

I'm strictly business-motivated myself, and although I have my own code of personal ethics and morals (small, but they're there, heh)...I'd draw the line of simply halting publication because a model flip-flop'd on her decision.

Since we usually work with amateur and first-time models, I usually sit down and talk with the model prior to the shoot and discuss these issues with them beforehand. I make it a habit to point out that the pics are being used on commercial paysites and there's no turning back once they're up. I give them ample opportunity to think it over and change their mind before a shoot.

SilentKnight

You rather destroy her life for a few bucks????
Great morals. Its all about the green isnt it.

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#36

11-11-2005, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by DukeSkywalker

I through down 5k once at a black jack table and I lost. I asked teh casino for it back and they told me no.
I bought a gym membership last october and went 3 times, I am still getting billed and they wont return any of the money for the months i didnt use (oct 2004).

I always stand my ground. Never talk price with a model either to have it taken down. It could be considered extortion. Always just connect them with your attorney.. Let them deal with it. This kind of thing happens all the time. Especially with girls who are doing it to pay of their car insurance.
I cleary state that i can do anything with this content, sell it to whomever, even make a bill board out of it and that it will be published forever. Then I ask them if they understand that and have them repeat to me in their own words what that means. It really cuts the crap down to a minimum.
Duke

Thats one of the most fucked up compares ever. Green green green, thats whats its all about.

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#37

11-11-2005, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Maybe a blow job every day until her daughter turns 18... at that time her daughter would take over until she got too old. And from 18 - 21 both the mom and the daughter would have to suck it together.

hmmmmm.

owh yeah, slick idea

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#38

11-11-2005, 12:11 AM

it's too fucking late... by now shes probably plastered all over TGP galleries and newsgroups etc.... she's fuct... but i DO like the idea of asking for recurring sexual favors in return for you to stop PUSHING it, but she'd have to know that youre right, PORN IS FOREVER, and its too late, its out there, but that you'll immediately remove it from any further spreading on your account... worth a try...

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#39

11-11-2005, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

How many times have you had a model come back to you regretting her filming for you? Or it cost her a job, or is causing family problems or even caused her new boyfriend to beat her ass?

She regrets the shoot. Begs for you to stop selling it. Even offers to buy it from you while she is in tears.

What do you do? I tell them upfront that PORN IS FOREVER and this may happen down the road. At the time they want that cash so my words fall on deaf ears, but when it bites them in the ass... they come back on hands and knees acting like they didn't know.

It's only happened to me 2 times. One was a friend and I allowed her to simply pay back what I had paid her. I had not distributed the content yet. The other tried to threaten me with legal action after her boyfriend found it on SublimeDirectory.com so I gave her my attorney's contact info and never heard from her again.

Last edited by AaronM; 11-11-2005, 12:26 AM.
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#40

11-11-2005, 12:59 AM

This has happened to me twice this month. two girls wanted their videos removed and i just took them down...sometimes it's just not worth the bullshit over a few videos
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#41

11-11-2005, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by OneHungLo

This has happened to me twice this month. two girls wanted their videos removed and i just took them down...sometimes it's just not worth the bullshit over a few videos

Love your stuff, man.
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#42

11-11-2005, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Elli

Thank you.

But I'm female. What about "Elli" says male to you? *rolls eyes*

You are a "she", you hav nothing to prove.
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#43

11-11-2005, 01:21 AM

when they make up thier mind and step into the shoots its too late to roll back..

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#44

11-11-2005, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by OneHungLo

This has happened to me twice this month. two girls wanted their videos removed and i just took them down...sometimes it's just not worth the bullshit over a few videos

they need to know the job they took and they must realize you will also suffer fi you will stop the sale of some vids you took. they are all fucked up so they need not to worry.
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#45

11-11-2005, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by grumpy

You rather destroy her life for a few bucks????
Great morals. Its all about the green isnt it.

You are trying to put the blame on the producer. The model made the decision to shoot porn. It's not the producers problem to babysit the model and find out if porn is ok for her future plans and lifestyle. It's up to the model to make the decision to do porn, and to then stick with that decision.

It's logic like your's that is the center of drama when models flake out
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#46

11-11-2005, 01:48 AM

ya know - if the girl herself had the regrets i'd be very sympathetic - but when I hear it's a boyfriend who has the problem or it's family and friends who have the problem - fuck that - if they love the girl they'll shut the fuck up and continue to love her and forget the stupid pictures and videos - as if in 2005 nudity and sex is still some filthy taboo. fucking hypocrites.

not one girl i've dealt with has ANY problem herself with what she's done - it's only when somebody who supposedly loves them makes them feel like shit do they regret anything. and that sucks.

i guess money does come into this - it's easy enough and not much of a loss if you dump a video or 5 photosets off a site that has hundreds of other models on it. easier to be the good guy in that case. what if you had a solo girl site that was making you 100K a year and the girl came with the same request - meaning take down the entire site?

I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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Peace

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#47

11-11-2005, 02:24 AM

only one time happened but that girl i shot was published even in Hustler so i just removed it from site and and of story....I made enough money on her...

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TheWylders

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#48

11-11-2005, 06:18 AM

This happened to me about 6 years ago. I had shot this girl a couple times who was a stripper, one night she showed up at my house with another girl and they were both all fucked up on something. They had never done anything together and I got them both to agree to fucking around while I took pics. The next day the second girl contacted me in tears and begged me not to publish the pictures. I agreed, since even though she had signed a release I knew she was under the influence and may not have been ok with everything if she hadn't been.
About 2 weeks later the other girl who I had shot several times called and requested I not use her stuff anymore, I told her sorry doll, but we had an agreement and I'm not removing the pics. One night out of the blue about 11:30 at night someone knocks on the door and there she stands with 5 guys. They come in demanding I give her the pics back. I was a little intimidated to be honest, I weigh about 110 on a good day and am in a wheelchair and obviously would have gotten my ass kicked. But I'm also a hard headed fucker and stood my ground, explaining to these guys that I had several contracts with her signature and she was paid and I wasn't about to give her anything. I guess it was all just a scare tactic because the guys didn't cause any problems and after realizing that I was not going to give in just because I had 5 big ass fuckers standing over me, they ended up leaving and I never heard from any of them again.
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SilentKnight

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#49

11-11-2005, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by grumpy

You rather destroy her life for a few bucks????
Great morals. Its all about the green isnt it.

Oh, you must be another one of those representatives from the generation that can't claim responsibility for itself.

When you do this as a livelihood, yes...its all about the green. Business is business. If you can't comprehend that, pack your kit and hit the road.

So while you're blaming the photographer for "destroying" her life, answer me this - how do you go about retracting the images from the web and removing all trace of them around the globe?

SilentKnight
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DWB

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#50

11-11-2005, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

Oh, you must be another one of those representatives from the generation that can't claim responsibility for itself.

When you do this as a livelihood, yes...its all about the green. Business is business. If you can't comprehend that, pack your kit and hit the road.

So while you're blaming the photographer for "destroying" her life, answer me this - how do you go about retracting the images from the web and removing all trace of them around the globe?

SilentKnight

What he said.
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