Fuck the F430. Real Men Drive The Gallardo SE...

Hmm.. You sure about that?


Anyway, I have no problem with other people's opinions or tastes, to each his own. however, re-read the title of your thread ;) You sort of opened the door.

Dude, you're an asshole. I'm sorry, but you're living your life stereotyping everyone and everything that happens to disagree with your suprising views.

Orange County has nothing to do with it, I fucking despise chrome wheels, and other "bling bling" shit because it destabilizes the car at the TRACK. I'm hardcore, and actually USE my cars as they were intended. Any I know many others who feel the same, who live near me.

Yes, places like Orange County are prone to the typical clown with money, who never goes over 50mph in these cars because then you couldn't "see" him in it. Don't put me in that group, prick, you know nothing about me besides what I've stated here. How many fucking "Orange County" people you think have been to the factories in Italy? Get off your high horse, don't stereotype me and I won't call you an elitist motherfucker who probably won't buy a shit unless "Hermes" is stamped on it, and bitches at the waiters in restaurants that the bottled water isn't Pellgrino.

Stfu dude, lmao.

The Lambo guy actually have computers now? Wow! They got better!
Maybe it's only in Orange County, where all the Lambos are. If you buy a Porsche, you're a different kind of person. You're not about loving that bitch (Ferrari), you are about a reliable fast car, but a bit emotionless. I think the Fiat 500 Abarth above, is still the best. Seriously, you all should look for one in Orange County, and DO NOT get the tinting. I bet anything that you will ge laid more than the guy that has the glowing Lambo, rims that are flashiers than yours, and has 50% tinting. I promise. If it does not work, then it's your fault. Ebay, I'm coming!

Right, but I have an experience on the topic, as does our Heritage-obssessed friend. You don't. You're just regurgitating other people's opinions from magazines, or other third parties. Don't fall into that trap, you're above it. Make your own decisions, and if you lack the experience to do so, don't make any judgements until you do.

Drive them, own them, then kick their ass if they deserve it.

Current Porsches are dull soul-less appliances. Only the GT3 gets the blood flowing, and even that's a stretch.

The air-cooled Porsches, now those were cars. The 993 Turbo was a fun beast, love them. Everything after is muted, less emotion. Great cars, but not Italian in their ferocity.

Even the Gallardo feels a lot more alive than a 996 Turbo, finally something we can agree on.

You mean that YOU ONLY have been at the factory, you're not buddy with them? Not as a client, as a human being. Pity. You know nothing about me either, do you? It might turn out that I know what I'm talking about. Who knows. After all you think that I know nothing, or even driven anything, and at each post, I make you more upset, and my smile grows more. You're as asshole as me. You insult me because you disagree with me, and get offended because I disagree with you. DO NOT tell me you race a Lamborghini? Send me your address, I'll send you a cross, or something. Orange County boy, believe me, I might know a thing, or two more than you when it comes to cars. Trust me, you're going the wrong way, but I swear I won't tell you why. I just can't. Just know that I have a big grin on my face.

Let's do this. You stop insulting me, I stop hurting you feeling.

Carrera RS 2.7 kick ass too. I don't know if that had them in the US.
GT3, tempting, but not enough. Anyway, I'm still looking for that 500 Abarth.
I'm serious. I'll find one, and you know what. I'll make a contest on GFY.

No, I meant exactly what I said, which is that you lumping me in with the typical Orange Country "poser" is pretty clueless on your part based on what I've written in this thread. I don't think the average 22" "spinners" customer has been to Modena....

Open your eyes, see what's in front of you. Don't try to read my label, figure me out based on an Orange Country reference, lol, use the info I've provided you. I, like you, have VAST experience with all of these cars, yes, I've been in the same paddocks, the same race-weekends, have attended Pebble Beach regularly in the fall, yada, yada, yada.

What I'm telling you, trying to educate you on really, is that being a slave to heritage, to pedigree, is a fool's errand. At the end of the day, either the car in question moves you, or it doesn't. And THAT is all that matters. It doesn't matter if Gilles Villeneuve had one. It doesn't matter if Alain Prost whispered in your ear that "Ferrari is driven by God himself". It doesn't matter that Enzo himself kissed the hood of the F40 before he launched it.

All that matters is does it emotionally move you when you drive it.

End of debate.

Dude, that's just mean. Put it this way, I don't think that you should discriminate between people that own them, and people that know about them. If you knew anything about cars to begin with, you would not have bought a Lambo :-)
I think the guy offers an interesting comment.
I want the picture of your Lambo here. You have to prove that you didn't pimp anything on it. I just cannot believe you.

Signed,
Heritage Boy

I have to agree with your assessment of the current stable of Porsche's.They have gotten very civilized.When I first decided to start the hunt for my first Italian ride,i was planning on trading in my 993TT and keeping my 993 cab.I drove the Gallardo immediately after the 100mile trip to the dealership in Chicago.And afterwards on the ride home I decided to keep the TT and just take a bit more time hunting out the perfect Gallardo.
The Gallardo smoothes out the edges of the 993TT.It's not quite as fast in a straight line.But after some seat time,I would have to believe it will be easier to drive fast through the twistys.I loved the looks of the modena 360 and the sound is amazing.But it actually seemed slow to me.I drive an m3smg for my daily and it seemed like it fell into that performance class.

Yeah, but if Heritage Boy puts his hands on, let's say 3, or 4 430s, at sticker, than Heritage Boy can always sell them to Orange County pimps, and with the profit, stop working for a year. That makes Heritage boy smarter than Orange County dudes (Plural, I'm not referring to you this time), and also be able to actually get them. See, a lot of Lambo guys, buy them because they have to wait a decade to get a Ferrari, or because when they enter the dealership, they're treated like shit, no matter how much money they have. That's a cool aspect of Ferrari. When you're treated like a friend by them, and are not actually buying anything, now, that's cool, isn't it? I bet those Orange County boys would love that. They might even raise the tinting to 60%.

Look, you made assumptions on me to begin with, and you're dead wrong (Which is why I still have a big grin on my face). Who knows , one day I might help you get that car you dream of at sticker price. I'm just kidding of course, I'm a pathetic loser, and I drive a cool pinto. I bow at you, and I envy you. From now on, you're going to be my star, and I will think of you, when I go to sleep, and how cool the tinting is. I'm still looking for the 500 Abarth. What paddock where you going to? Who did you know? Maybe I met you.

Damn sweet automobile..I want one

Side to side, the 360 actually blows the M3.
The Maserati Quattroporte, which has the same engine as the 360, but is an elephant, equals the M3, in real life driving, not in fake mag. testing.
You don't feel that they're fast, because they're kick ass cars. I drove a 911 Turbo once, and I was scared to hell. It really felt unstable, and at 140, it felt like going 200. On a Ferrari, you start realizing the speed over 170mph.
120 is easily what would equal to 90 on a Porsche, as far as feelings go, taking turn, etc. It's also how much they pitch. It gives you the weird impression that it's not going, but it is. That's why they are good cars (Performance wise). Shit, I forgot that I actually have to work, and a lot.

Well, while I agree with most of your post.. comparing hp/liter isn't exactly a valid method of comparing cars. Considering a honda 1.8 vtec engine produces 102hp/liter and it's not in the same class as the 'supercars'.

damn that is sooo hot!

The Vtec, was indeed an excellent engine.
It's not in the same class, of course, but it proves that Honda had the technology to produce a very high end 4 cyl. engine.
Another example, although it's turbocharged, is the Mitsubishi. Some 135 hp / liter, and keeping the thing together for more than 1000 miles, is an impressive task. Of course, the engine is quite brutal, as far as output goes, but it's still impressive. Don't forget that, incidentally, Honda was dominating F1 sometime ago, with perfect engines, before pulling out, and that Mitsubishi dominated Rallies for a long time. All that research, is transferred, at some point in time, to production. Others fail, no matter the budget. Toyota has early budgets, for F1 that range from 300, to 500 million dollars. They still cannot win a race. That's not good. Ford tried with Jaguar (Another destroyed brand), and failed so bad, that they pulled from F1. The new team (Red Bull), is doing a lot better, this year, than Jaguar / Ford ever did. Ford also sold Cosworth, in England, which had a massive role in Ford's sport programs, and developed so many engines for them. They even managed to get rid of the only really technological thing they had. A complete shame. Aston is coming back, but at the same time it's being managed by a very good English team. A perfect example of how good a car is, is the Ferrari 550, which is still winning across the World, despite not being backed up by Ferrari.
I think that at first, the car was raced by a guy that bought them on Ebay. Turned out to be a winning car, with small modifications. Of course, it's much faster than 360s too, which are partically supported by Ferrari too. The 575, which is supported by Ferrari, loses to the 550, which is years older. That's how good a base project is. Corvette, for example, doesn't even have a single screw that is stock, when racing, and it's fully backed up by the factory. I have to say that they manage to win, and I wish that Ferrari fully took the challenge, and do the same. The new Corvette, has 66hp / liter stock, more or less the same level as the Viper. They simply cannot reach 100 hp / liter. They just can't. The thing would fall apart. Those engines are 200 years old. The new fabled Z06, the super pumped up Corvette, reaches a whooping 72hp / liter :-( A far cry from Renault engines that are 15 years old. Vipers are no competition. They're old dinosaurs. By the way, I think that the Viper engine was developed by Lamborghini. I'm not 100% positive, but I think I'm right. Porsche's GT3 is a decent 105 hp / liter, but that's how good they get. To do better, Porsche slaps a couple of turbos in the engine. Slap a turbo in a 12 cyl. Ferrari 575, see what happens... HP / liter is not the perfect comparison, but it gets you very close to the real truth about how much technology is poured into a car. When you go over 100 hp / liter, and you do that without the aid of turbos, you can be sure that they know what they're doing, and that they have done their homeworks. You should also assume, based on the price, that they also know how to build a suspension, etc.
When Ferrari spends $350k to build a car, there's a massive technological transfer in it, and you can say as much as you want, but it's 15 years ahead of any Lamborghini. That's why, if you manage to get one, or if you're lucky to be on Ferrari's VIP list, you're getting a art piece, that you can always resell, and make a profit, you're not merely buying that flashy poster with neon lights. That is why Lamborghinis have no collector's value, beside the Miura, and a few others, but we're talking about the '60s. That's when Lamborghini publicly challenged Ferrari, and the Miura was probably better than the Ferrari 512BB (Awesome car too). See, even in it's birth, Lamborghini owes it's fame to Ferrari, just like the FordGT40. It's fame came from beating Ferrari. Ferrari's fame came from winning everything, and buiding sexy beasts. Ferrari has a life of its own. Others exist because they compare to them, or beat them, with a few exclusions. Of Course, as I said before, Lamborghini does not even attempt to race those dinosaurs. Who knows, maybe VW will inject some funds into research, and try to make those things race. Better, maybe they'll take an Audi, which is doing good in racing, and put a Lamborghini badge on it. That would probably be a smart move, if they manage to hide the Audi brand well.

Still prefer the DB9 over this (different market tho)

Just for fun...

800hp / 6.3 liter...Monster...Only 1.5 million Euro. Crazy!

The FXX

New FXX to turn client-collectors into genuine Ferrari Test Drivers

Ferrari has developed a truly innovative technical collaboration programme around the FXX prototype aimed at its most dedicated and passionate Clients.

The FXX is the most advanced GT ever created at Maranello and its mission is to involve our most valued Clients as genuine Prancing Horse Test Drivers in their own right.

The wealth of data and experience gathered in the course of this very special programme will be exceptionally important.

In fact, the feedback from these highly skilled, non-professional Client Test Drivers will be compared and supplemented with suggestions from Michael Schumacher, Rubens Barrichello and Ferrari?s professional in-house Test Drivers.

Every Client who signs up for the FXX project by purchasing one of the estimated 20 or so cars being built, will actually be joining Team Ferrari, and will have his driving experiences at the wheel of this new car monitored directly by the Prancing Horse?s technicians and specialists.

The FXX is the fruit of Ferrari?s know-how in building special limited-series sports cars combined with, of course, its racing experience. It will provide the basic framework on which the specifics of future extreme models will be worked out. The exceptionally powerful FXX delivers absolutely blistering performance on all fronts.

The FXX has not been homologated for road use and thus will not be a competition model. It will be used exclusively on the track as part of a specific ongoing research and development programme featuring this first ever group of Client Test Drivers.

The FXX is powered by an imposing 6,262 cc V12 engine that can punch out over 800 hp at 8,500 rpm.

Its gearbox is the result of the transfer of F1 strategies, delivering gear change times of under 100 ms. This is almost as fast as the F1 single-seaters, themselves the absolute pinnacle of current technological achievement.

The FXX?s aerodynamic design is particularly innovative too as it has resulted in a shape that produces 40% higher downforce than ever achieved before. It is also possible to adjust the FXX?s mobile spoiler configuration to suit the specific circuit.

Ferrari?s partnership with Bridgestone has resulted in the development of a specific 19? slick tyre for this particular model. Likewise Brembo has created a special brake cooling and pad system for the FXX?s extra large Composite Ceramic Material disc brakes.

The Client Test Drivers will also be able to share their unique track experience with a passenger ? in fact a second seat is also available.

What really sets the FXX apart, however, is the sophisticated telemetry system which will monitor and give feedback on 39 different vehicle dynamics parameters in real time. The system is also able to record other data as demanded by specific circumstances.

The information gathered will then be analysed by the Ferrari technicians working on the programme and discussed with the individual Client Drivers to ensure that the car is kept constantly updated.

The FXX package also includes participation in a series of track events to be organised by Ferrari on various international-level circuits over the coming two years. On these occasions, an official team of technicians will be on hand to provide any assistance and support required by the Client Test Driver.

In addition to these truly unique official events, Clients will also be able to take their cars out on the track independently during private sessions. Clients wishing to leave their car at Maranello will be glad to know that the vehicles will be transported directly by Ferrari to the various European circuits for the various scheduled events.

Given the car?s exceptional performance and the unique nature of the package, delivery of each FXX will also include an ad hoc driving course. The instructors will, of course, be professional drivers and the courses will take place at the Fiorano Circuit where Ferrari does its most important F1 single-seater testing.

After the seat and the pedals have been individually tailored to each driver, there will be a traditional ?shakedown? followed by a training session to introduce the Client Test Drivers to test driving methodologies.

After a careful client order selection process, the first FXXs will be delivered by the end of this year. The initial testing of the definitive car will be taking place over the coming days at Fiorano.

The FXX and the relative package cost a total of 1.5 million euro (excluding taxes). Applications to join the programme are being evaluated by a special in-house committee.

The amount of keyboard warriors in this thread...

If it was a Chevy-Ford thread there would be dead bodies by now!

Lambo-Ferrari guys might toss a glass of wine in each others face or if it really heated up a spirited slap across the face with a leather driving glove.

funny thread I saw toyotas with 330 bhp per litre

old thread, but still good post

style wise nothing comes close the DB9/Vantage

Aston Martin > the rest

now thats sexy

So Sexy....my new wallpaper!

hot bitch ass car

i dont like lambo any more

www.lambounfall.de

Interesting to reread this thread..Since it was posted I did get the Lambo that I was looking for.NO TINTING,NO CHROME,NO BLING STUFF..Just one fine,exciting car to drive.If you think you can appreciate what Lamborghini delivers by reading about it or arguing over an adult bbs,you are kidding yourselves.

I found the experience with the Lambo dealer was excellent,better than most actually.I would buy from them again in a blink.

The only downside about the Gallardo is the amount of attention it gets from people.I wasn't prepared for it.People pull along side it at hiway speeds taking pics.Stop off for fuel and there is a crowd around it.I've had to open the engine lid constantly to show people the 10cylinder.Other than that.It's a great drivers car.

Yes, but turbocharged...F1 cars, turbocharged, a million years ago, reached something around 700 / 800 hp liter

Quote: "With the latest turbocharged engines now producing well in excess of 1000bhp (from just 1.5-litres), the sporting authorities sought to counter the ingenuity of F1 engine manufacturers by limiting boost pressure to 4 bar for the 1987 season".

You can do anything with a Turbo. Mastery is making a powerful aspirated engine. By the way, funny story. I recently saw two people, two asians, watching a documentary about Ferrari on a screen in a dealership. It was an emotional documentary, if you love racing. One, obviously a Ferrari owner, turned to the other, and said: "You see! Even if they wanted, at Lamborghini they could not make a documentary, because they never won anything, and have no real history". I laughed, and I thought about this thread a lot, but I didn't post it until today. It's not only about heritage. Heritage was created because there's a lot of passion, and money spent in research. Look at the splendid monster that McLaren built (Not that crap new Mercedes). The F1 was a pure beast at the time, and it's still one of the best cars today. Why? Technology, research, etc. Something that Lamborghini can only dream of. It's like calling the Ford GT40 (The new one, not the old one), a race car. It's not. It's an overpriced piece of junk, with suspensions cracking while you drive. They have no clue where to begin to build a racecar. If you love race cars, you cannot spend your money on a GT40. Why do you think Ford retired from F1, and the RedBull team, immediately, did better than them, with the same car? The only decent thing they had was in England, and it was Cosworth, and they even sold that. The last piece of real technology they had...Same for Aston Martin...Wow, a nice Ford. Who gave a crap about Aston before Bond's revival, and some good marketing? That's not a car! Race it, keep that thing on the road, and prey, maybe you'll get lucky, and survive. Please don't confuse Leonardo's paintings with posters of his work. They look similar, but they're not the same thing. At least posters are cheap.

Real men drive Cordobas!



DH

Wow my S2000 has 120 hp / litre


So what you're saying is, my Honda is superior to Ferrari, Aston Martin, and Lamborghini.


I have a Supercharger on it now and it produces around 400 hp at the engine. ( 350 to the wheels )


200 hp / litre.

Oh, and my 737 wheel horsepower Supra does about 280 horsepower / litre.

I believe I mentioned that before. The S2000 is technically a good engine. The car itself is a semi coffin on 4 wheels, but the engine is a good one. Don't forget that for years Honda dominated in F1...
Regarding the Supra, what you do to them, aftermarket, is your own business. Engines are build to stay together, and cars to stay on the road. If you don't spend a gazillion dollar on that Supra, which is probably not going to be enough anyway, you have a suicidemobile on your hands, with an engine that will last a few miles, before blowing up, and a chassis that is not going to hold that thing together. It's your life. Maybe you just use it to turn on the engine, and go up, and down the street. Beside, how many turbos does that thing have? Of course, aftermarket guys never confess how many times their car blew up, or how much money they wasted on a car to make it more performing. Many times it's worth to buy a performing car to begin with. I know people that put 120k on a truck, and ended up on fire on the highway. Call that wise... You can argue as much as you want, but good cars are a few, technology is owned by fewer, research, in some cases is an unknown word (Most American manifactures, for example), and that reflects on their products, and their heritage. and only a handful of people have the ability to build race cars. All the others are wannabes. Of course, this has a price. A Corvette is a good good, for the money, but it's not McLaren F1. The Corvette that races does not have a bolt that is original...it's a different car, and an expensive one. Don't try to make potatoes look like gold, even if you paint them gold, they're still good for fries, and that's it. By the way, Honda made some pretty kick ass VTEC engines in Europe ages ago.

The irony is this. The percentage of drivers who will ever actually be able to use all this power is very small.I've been driving Porsche,Bmw and MB for nearly 20 years.I've never had any of my cars up to it's top speed. I've been on Road America quite a few times and came nowhere close to establishing a new track record.Probably the most fun i've had on a racetrack is with my MiniS.

You can talk about heritage until you are blue in the face.I love the Gallardo.It's stable,fast excellent brakes and more speed than I'll ever use.
I'm not really that interested in what happened in F1 30 years ago.It has no bearing on the fun I had today driving my car through the country.

The 430 appears to be a fine car.I drove the 360,not a 430.And I clearly preferred the Lambo.I don't need to rip on Ferrari or Ford or anyone else to justify my purchase.I am quite secure in the fact that I made the best decision for me.

Thats cool but you left a car off your list!
Honda S2000 - 120HP/liter - beats everything you listed

edit: Okay I read the whole thread now and see the S2000 mentioned already

I can't believe I just read this entire thread. I'm not a car afficiendo at all. I know nothing about cars but reading "Heritage Boy" and "Orange County Boy" go back and forth was exciting! (does this make me officially a nerd? lol)

On a superficial level everything is the same. The day you drive, let's say, a F430, an Enzo, or a McLaren F1 (That's an old car), and have someone on your side that understands something about cars, you'll notice the difference.
You know, it's like when you drive a BMW M#, and you think it's the best thing on the planet, and then one day you drive a Ferrari, and you know that the other one is a fine car, but still on another planet. One is cute, the other one is passion, etc. Passion motivates me. I cannot be motivated by empty boxes.

...I told you, I thought I mentioned it. Do I win a price?
That's an extreme engine. Ferrari could esily squeeze more out of the engines, but they do not (They last longer). You can hardly squeeze a few HP more (Without tricks, such as a turbo), out of a S2000.
100 hp / liter is already a good thing. I don't think Lamborghini even reaches that.

As long as you have someone tune your car properly you'll be fine. There are lots of examples of Twin Turbo 1000 horsepower Vipers that run great. There are many 800 horsepower Supras on the stock engine Mine lived until 110k miles, and most of those miles it was ABUSED! Then I just got another stock shortblock for 2k.


What car do you drive?


By the way, the Supra held the braking record in Motor Trend for *13* years and was finally beaten by the Enzo. I believe it only beat the Supra's braking by 5 feet or something. ( 70-0 )


The Supra chassis is very good at handling high horsepower. Maybe you should drive one before you slam it. Hell, I think you should drive a FAST car before you talk out of your ass.


I think you probably drive some slow ass POS and think you're king shxt because of heritage or something.


Heritage or not, my cars put a smile on my face.

I never had a car that I did not take to the limit, ever. As I said above, all I do is driven by passion. I would never buy a car, if I could not race it, starting from my first car, a Peugeot 205 GTI. I sucked the life out of that thing. Passion, just passion, that's all. I respect your decision, bt if it was not for the US, and Arab market, I don't think that Lamborghini would exist today (After going bankrupt a million times before). Just opinions. I cannot probably even afford a nice car...

As I said before, I drive a Pinto...No I'm not going to brag about what I drive, but I've driven a lot of FAST cars in my life, from Renaults, to anything else. They were not necessarily mine, but I've driven them. I already got challenged by someone that doubted me...You should not get there, you'll lose the war, trust me.

Sorry I don't talk to people with 0 money and a shxtty car who slams things he could never afford and knows nothing about.

What is it again that you drive?

It's one thing to be passionate it's another thing to be realistic.You suggest I don't have passion for my Porsche's because I haven't driven an Enzo.Odds are I'll never drive an Enzo.I haven't owned two prior Ferrari's so I'm not elite enough to get on the list for one.I would've needed to be a rock star or a talk show host to do that.

MotorTrend? are those the same kind of dudes that do comparisons with rigged Ford GT40? Who was breaking, my grandfather? Those magazines...ah!
They're all sooooo bad. The US are not famous for having great drivers...Don't get me wrong I live in the US, but as far as driving goes, they're not really the best. On straights they're kind of good, get to curves, and it's going to be the chicken parade. You know, they're trying to breed an American F1 pilot. They looked for one, but could not find any that was even close. Well, the magazines follow the same trend. They're not very professional, and they do not have very professional drivers (Most of the times), and they almost never have professional equipment to measure things. The day that I see a Ford GT40 (A real one, not the factory rigged one), come close to the performances that the magazines claim, I'll be Santa.
I understand that the American sport market needs a push, but...Come on!

I swear, I drive a Pinto with rocket boosters, and 3 turbos. I don't hate Porsches. They're extremely versatile cars, and they're really good on the track. I don't like them, althought the 911 Turbo was wild. They're just too cold, and German. I don't know, a fast car is like a nice woman. She cannot be only pretty, she must have a brain, and a heart too. I know, for a lot of people the body is enough. I get it.

I know, you're trying to make me tell you what I drive. Over my dead body. Let's do this, maybe in the near future I will donate one of my cars (The cheapest), to the affiliate with most sales for 2 months. That will give you an idea. Stay tuned, it could be interesting, and maybe something with almost no precedent. It will be fun. Are you another LA guy that thinks that people with no money are not smart? I just had a fight with one over that. I just don't brag too much, but if I were you, I would not go there, you might be surprised.

Hey, by the way, when you talk to Mr. ZERO dollars, check this ranking...
We're passing Playboy.com on Alexa.
Only a few others are in front. Neat.

MET ART vs PLAYBOY

Try against Ferrari.com, of Ferrari.it, we blast them too.

I know you can't be talking about the 360! That car had as much passion as my ML350 with better hips.

Maybe an F40,but I've never had the pleasure of driving one.

I read this quote on one of the Lambo boards

People that want to be someone drive a Ferrari.People that are someone drive a Lamborghini. Frank Sinatra

Holy damn fuck, I need a Gallardo just like this one !!