What age do you teach your son about guns?

And you expect someone else to protect you and your family..

Real smart.

And when they say "Pull down your pants and bend over" or "Open your mouth wide for me, my little pretty" you're going to REALLY wish you had a gun with you.

I have every intention of murdering someone if it's reached the point where I have to pull a gun on them. No sense shooting them just enough to piss them off even more.

If they have a gun already trained on you I'm afraid you having a gun isn't going to do a bit of good. If they don't have a gun then the same end result (stopping them) can be achieved with a high quality stun gun or taser.

I wish I was taught to when I was growing up.

Guns are not needed in any society. Why does the USA have astronomical numbers of death by guns? Because they are so prevelant.

Guns in most other western cultures are never seen, heard nor needed.

You have a point!

Na.. not been robbed - the most was a bombing (not aimed specifically at me and no bad result). There are other methods of "control" - if it's just kids, they can be managed. If it's a serious attempt - tho can't think of any reason for that - don't have "enemies" - depending on circumstances, their are better folks around to handle shit than me

To put it another way, the chances of any attack are so remote, it's not even worth considering. But agree - depends on where you live and possibly other factors - so hard to judge for everyone.

You are 100% correct - the prevalence of weapons results in crazy injuries/death rates in comparison to all other nations.

Sure, there can be a need for law officers to carry weapons (tho even that does not apply worldwide), and even they screw up on occasion - if not harming others - they shoot themselves

It's only one example... and may be more of personal choice not to kill anyone if there is an option, - was well-briefed by friend who is an experienced US govt officer on "preferences" and what to do or not do. Sure she packs a weapon or two, but unless this is called for - it is never drawn - not even as a threat. If it is even drawn, - it's to kill or maim. Her speciality is either a broken jaw, collar bone or both - killing anyone is the last option, tho it may and has happened, but only on very rare occasions. There are a few other options for anyone who feels under threat and these are, again, only by , but preferable, and in place.

Other prob obvious observations from dealing with many weapons-related offenses is the victim is often caused more harm by possessing a weapon they have no clue in handling - and this is often turned upon them. If the weapon was not present - the outcome would be less serious.

gun range is what 100 meters to be sure on? stun gun or taser is what 6 inches? to late!

If you don't have precognition on your side, I fail to see how you can know that a robber/rapist is coming at you from 100 meters away.

I'm no expert - but ya don't normally shoot at anyone who is 100 meters away

Close proximity scenarios are far more likely and ... enter weapons such as tasers...

Another "tip" - if it's a burglary/house-breaking - get all the lights off and play games in the dark. You know your house and how to get around - others are clueless...

yes. that's what law and cops are for.
besides i did my three years in the army and i have a month every year (reserve).

and believe me, i still hate guns and killing.

As i said in my first reply i wouldn't teach my sun about guns if possible.
I hope we'll all see days where this is possible...

the 3 post above this if someone is 100metres away then are way out of "the danger" zone whifh is what I talked abot earlier witht he 21ft rule thats 7 yards or meters what ever you want to call it... thats close... and with proper training you can defend yourself from any suprise attack at that distance.. I mean if they shoot you or blind side you your fucked no matter gun or not... now on to stun guns... worthless... yeah they work.. but will NOT stop a grown man.. I don;t care how many videos you show me of grown men falling on the ground after getting hit with tazers they DONT work they WILL NOT stop a human being that is intent on hurting you... adrenalin plays a big role in weapons you use.. thats a reason I will not go smaller than a .40 granted it's shot placement that counts not the cal but the bottom line is under fire you need to think of getting cover then return fire.. first thing is first cover.. when you can get cover you can collect your thoughts.... thats for the avg person.. now if you come train with me I will turn you into a straight killer with no shame.. your CK count will shoot through the roof after a month of training

That is absolute bullshit. It doesn't matter how big you are, it doesn’t matter how well toned your muscles are. A high quality stun gun or taser is going to bring your ass down. Show me of a video of someone getting tasered by a police quality stun gun/taser and manage to stand for more than 5 seconds.

I say teach them to respect firearms at age 5 or so and if they would like to learn to safely shoot them and learn more about them, then I say 12 is a great age to start. Buy them a pellet gun watch how they handle it... then graduate them to a .22cal rifle. I am not going to go into a debate about the 2a here but all I can say is, without guns, we wouldn't have the freedoms we have today here in America. It is a vital part of our constitution, nuff said.

Suppose it depends where you live etc DirtyDanza, but in any "normal existence" it's not exactly common for people to be attacking ya So.. still wondering about the need to be armed.

Can't say for sure, but certainly appears that the average person who has a gun has little experience in actually handling it - and that can pose more problems alone - forget an attack.

If there is a genuine fear of attack to the extent of buying a weapon, what happened to physical methods of defense? Can think of one very quiet lady who will (and has) taken out a fair number of guys, with much more weight and power than she ever had - tho the tendency to break jaws and collar bones is getting embarrassing and too regular *lol* She sure don't need any weapons (tho she has em) - the joke is she would not waste a good bullet on em :-)

Just odd that a lady can do this without problems, yet guys are rushing to arm themselves to the teeth.

Believe you are correct man! Don't matter the weight - they will go down, and quick.

I've shocked close to 200 people with various stun guns and tasers. Quality ones work. PERIOD. If you use flea market trash you are getting essentially nothing more than a disposable camera! People who have had bad experiences with stun guns not working have to be buying trash, I can offer no other explanation for it.

OK.. I've actually got a couple around somewhere Tho never had any reason to use em - but once! It was a bet where one guy had worked out (scientifically of course!) that a taser would be totally incapable of holding a charge *lol* He just "needed" proof - and he regretted ever asking He was numbed up very quickly!!

Dunno what the quality is like... they were selected by a law person who supposed to know about em, so probably OK quality.

ok for personal outside protection I agree with you, no need for gun. In home for sure, if i hear someone breaking in, they are dead.

Haha! I've yet to see one person able to stand up for more than 5 seconds of getting shocked, most will fall within 3 seconds. I've heard of some people having "resistance" to stun guns/tasers, but I've yet to see it first hand. I hope that guy learned not to bet on things he?ll regret later? hehehe.

As for the quality, the man/woman probably knew what they were talking about. As long as you paid $250-$300 or above you probably got a quality piece. Anything below that becomes pretty shitty... I have encountered a FEW cheaper brands that were adequete but I wouldn't use them personally.

At home I think that guns most certainly have their place, but in the form of shotguns and rifles. I own a number of them myself and I think guns are very important for personal safety! I just will never see a handgun as anything more than a tool of murder.

Hehe... the "victim" was prob around 190-220 lbs and he only got a small "dose", but he was paralysed for a while after - and had to admit his science degree did not work too well and he needed to recalculate the power potential

How come you had a need to taser 200 people? In law enforcement?

DirtyDanza http://frontsight.com looks awesome.

You should make a thread closer to the Vegas shows, I'm sure quite a few Webmasters would like to do a course before or after a show.

Naw, not in law enforcement. I used to sell them a few years back and we’d setup demo tents and let volunteers get shocked. It never ceased to amaze me that people would willingly be tasered just to see how it felt. We had to have this paramedic guy on standby as well in case anyone got hurt… even though we had a thick mat there several people always managed to hurt themselves while falling (never directly from the taser or stun gun itself).

The best taser that I used (and currently own) is the M18L. I bought it when it was around $550, you can get it under $350 now. I've yet to use a stun gun that I have *really* liked, most just feel really cheaply made to me and I don't trust them even if they do have the stopping power... I'd much rather use the M18L even though it is a bit more limited in many ways.

my daughter shot her first deer at 3 , i just let my son take his first shot at 20 months, and im aiming to get his first deer kill for his second birthday

One of the first things they should touch after mommy's tit.

I'm all for giving kids guns.

There is no end to which the public seem to want "proof"! *lol*

Can't remember how much the tasers cost - think they were about $500 ish for two at the time. There are probably betters units on the market now.

Joke!! One of the latest "incidents" the girl I mentioned above was involved in was an attempted rape. The assailant had no clue she was an undercover officer and she just played dumb in scenarios around him (he still ain't got a clue she is anything other than a stupid woman - the cover was retained). Anyways.. he approached her with a "proposition" which she politely declined. But he did not know when to stop and got his jaw broken... he was on the floor and told to stay there while she called medical help - but na.. he don't do as he's told and gets off the floor to "have a go" and gets - not sure of the exact sequence - but gets his collar bone screwed and back on the floor. Turns out in the end his jaw, collar bone and a couple of ribs were broken.

Anyways... he wants to prefer charges of assault *lol* and is wheeled into court in a chair. The judge asks him "why would this lady want to attack you?" "She tried to murder me" "Why would she want to murder you?" Slowly the story unfolds (it's a long story and more involved than the attempted rape)... Eventually.. the judge is passed some background papers (it's the detail of the actual identity of the girl and stuff about registered use of hands which are "offensive weapons" in the state) and comments that.. "I'm sure Miss X would have no problem murdering you if that was on her mind" He then went on to demolish him with dialog about being "a poor specimen of a man" and ordered him wheeled out of court *lol*

Can't say most stuff here, but part of the background is the girl was "employed" by him (tho all fake) and was owed a salary. Her little joke was that she then made claims against him (keeps the cover up) for her due salary which he refused to pay - so she raised some paperwork in court to record her claim against him. The ass .. least last I heard.. has never paid it and she it's still accumlating interest and apparently will go against his estate in the end

lmao? I?d let her use her ?offensive weapons? on me ;) Anyways, I?m off, going to get ready to go fish. It?s freezing cold here at the moment but god damn it I?m going fishing today. It?s what Jesus would have wanted. Have a happy Jesus-got-resurrected day!

Some stuff is just too funny - others more serious.

And same to you man and try and catch something

just do a message board search.. and you don;t have to be fit or tone or big even... just intent on hurting someone... let me ask you this cause I don't know you personally and you don't know me personally..

Have you ever been in a situation yourself as to where deadly force was your last option to stop the threat?


have you been up close and personal on a criminal who is full blown intent on killing someone?

I dunno call me old fashon but I am not taking a stun gun to a gun fight.. sorry... I to have seen a many man fall from stun gun but the fact still remains that it's not 100% and I have personally seen with my own eyes a 19 year old kid hit not once but twice and laughed it off belive it or not it was the mace that took him down... that and brute force.. bottom line is this... if I were a deranged killer you would not stand a chance with a stun gun vs. my HK theres no way unless you blindside me or something... I run through tac drills all the time.. I have been trained.. in fact ask DJ areik on here is is fmr law enforcement and in real life situations they just don't cut it.. thats why there called "less than lethal" ok if stun guns were the best thing since sliced cheese then officers would have no need for their sidearm correct? there is one weapon known to man that has been around a long time and will stay around a long time thats a handgun and proper training with that handgun...


now as far as training goes.. you need not possess ANYTHING that can cause bodily harm to a human being unless your ready to deticate time and training to using that weapon... I am a firm supporter of hand guns but I also think that you should be required by law to do at least 50hours training with that handgun a year bottom line.. if you can't sacrafice that much time to learning a weapon then don't own one and take your chances...

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006..._409_13_06.txt taser didn;t work

Not every officer is eager to strap on a Taser. Seattle officer Adrian Diaz said he would rather trust his martial-arts skills than the new device.

"I'm very cautious when it comes to a new tool," he said.

He remains unconvinced even though he went through Taser training and was knocked down when he was shot with one.

"We have cases where it just doesn't stop everybody," Diaz said.

Even officers who swear by Tasers know they are far from perfect. The darts allow just a single shot, sometimes they miss, sometimes people fight through the painful shock, and on occasion, nothing happens at all.

"My faith in my Taser has been shaken," one deputy wrote in a December 2003 report after two Taser shots failed to drop a mentally ill woman threatening to cut herself with a paring knife.

And then there are the high-profile incidents -- the deaths of people shot with Tasers and complaints of abuse filed by others.

Despite all that, many officers from the 1,200-member Seattle Police Department to the 45-member Lynnwood Police Department want the devices.

full story here

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...asercop30.html

I rest my case even law enforcement officers will say they don't drop everyone... at the beg of the story a 220lbs man droped like a fly but the woman held her ground because she was "INTENT" following through with her intentions...

and another one



Officer Inklebarger's Taser failed to work because both "darts" failed to go into the man's skin due to a loose jacket he was wearing. Davis, a Taser instructor, shot the probes into his leg, where jeans provided a solid entry.


http://blogs.kitsapsun.com/kitsap/cr...in_action.html