Jesus Christ, Rescue workers in helicopters are being shot at IN the USA

my bad, no more name calling.

are you suggesting we kill them? all of them? cause we sure as hell don't have enough room for them in state prisons! surely you know about overcrowding.

don't get me wrong, i think mass murderers should be put to death, but until they kill some one (or a whole bunch of people), what other choices do we have?

One in six parents say they know a child who accidentally shot himself or herself with a gun [Harvard School of Public Health].

Suicide is nearly 5 times more likely to occur in a household with a gun than in a household without a gun. [Kellerman, A.L. et al., N Engl J Med 327, 1993.]

In 1996, 2 people were murdered by handguns in New Zealand, 15 in Japan, 106 in Canada, 213 in Germany, and 9,390 in the United States. [FBI Uniform Crime Report]

Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill in self-defense. [ Kellermann and Reay, N.E. Journal of Medicine]

Well you are entitled to your opinion, I do not believe we are in a "gun shithole". While I have the right to bare arms, so do criminals. They have that right and I would not be the person to take it away from them, but at the same time they need to be accountable for their actions and realize it could mean life in prison or death.

As for your US vs. Holland I cannot speak on that , as I know nothing about Holland, nor do I have any statistics. The numbers i am sure can be skewed to either views favor. Comparing US vs Holland is like comparing apples to oranges.

no one knows really.

chances are, they (the looters that are shooting) think that the helicopters are there to get them in trouble. and they would be in big trouble for looting. kinda makes sense, in a sick and twisted kinda way.

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I firmly believe and always have, in an eye for an eye. If you kill someone, you should die of the same horrible death. I also believe that PEOPLE vs EQUIPMENT should be held accountable for their actions. I am tired of seeing everyone getting sued for shit because of a persons choice to do what they are doing. Cigarette manufacturers getting sued for causing cancer, yet they didn't put the cig in your mouth! McDonalds sued for burning a womans lap because she spilled what she KNEW to be HOT coffee on herself. Suing gun manufacturers for selling handguns when someone else committed the crime and pulled the trigger.

Part of the reason we are where we are today as a country is because of all these fucked up lawsuits. Just look at healthcare and how much fucking insurance is these days.

adding: the governor did say that the looters would be dealt with ruthlessly, and the rescue helicopters are chinooks....

It also makes me wonder what the punishment is in those countries with low deaths by firearms if you kill someone. I would bet it's much stiffer than the US. I also believe that the reason most gun related accidents in the home are because of poor handling of weapons. I don't have kids so I keep my 9mm accessible, but when my nephews or anyone comes over I lock it in a safe. Most of the time children find guns under their parents mattress or some shit and wind up shooting their sister. It is indeed very sad!

All those stats aside.

The US has the most violent prison system in the world.

They don't have guns. And guess what? They had that same mentality while on the outside.

Given my choice for suicide I'd shot myself before hanging myself. Suicide is probably 5x more likely to be commited with a gun.

However, we can't blame a gun for this.

Now the whole world can see what kind of animals you are.

Fucking uncivilized inbreds.

"The inssurgents are too strong. Lets pull out.'"

ok, time for a lil bit of ed-u-ma-cation for all of you who preach the whole guns are guns and guns are bad propaganda. one: the black market, by mere existence, is going to make it able for anyone who wants a gun bad enough be able to get one, no matter what country you are in. those of you who dont think that there are any guns in your country because your government doesnt allow them, are wrong. here is why. your government only knows about the LAW ABIDING people whom dont have guns. your government cannot know the statistics of of the amount of guns ILLEGALLY owned by criminals who have purchased them through ILLEGAL means "i.e. blackmarket". a good example of this is when australia banned guns, and look what happened. a phenomenon that had not yet existed in australia began occurring in tremendous numbers, HOME INVASION. what had happened was, the government declared that noone was to have guns. so therefore the criminals realized that the government had basically created a country of unwilling victims who no longer had the ability to defend themselves or thier homes from those who had guns. do not think that there are "no guns" in your country just because your government says there shall be none. quite the contrary. accept the fact that your country DOES have guns in it, but also accept the fact that the criminals are the ones who have them. there is CRIME in every country of the world, with NO EXEPTIONS. being that there is crime, also dictates that the black market is also present there. criminals, knowing that noone else can have guns will seek to take advantage of this black market situation and purchase guns illegally, knowing that they will be the ones with guns. TWO: you cannot say that allowing the LAW ABIDING the right to carry guns will necessarily mean that people will be shooting each other over small things such as incidents involving roadrage or other things that one might try to use as an arguement against the right for people to "ccw" on the contrary, look at florida. a state that was experiencing such a high crime rate that tourism began a sharp decline. as we all know, florida is a tourism state. it makes up the overwhelming majority of the state income. floridas' governor passed new laws ENABLING THOSE WHO LIVE OUT OF STATE TO OBTAIN A CCW LICENCE FOR THE STATE OF FLORIDA. what happened was the largest decline in violent crime such as rape robbery and murder that the united states has ever experienced. those are the FACTS. when those who prey upon others to get by think that there may be a large number of people capable and willing to defend themselves with firearms, or whatever means necessary, they tend to curb thier predatory behavior. in a perfect world, guns would not exist. however we all know that the world is not perfect. due to the BLACK MARKET, guns will always be present "atleast to those who obtain them illegally", and yes, even in your no guns allowed countries as well. if thier was no such things as guns then the problem would never have arisen. but this is not the case. so, by stating that you dont think people should carry guns, you are also stating that you prefer a society where the law abiding are able to be preyed upon by violent criminals. personally, when the evil hordes come to invade my home, loot my belongings, and do god only knows what to my family, i will rest assured that they will meet the fate of a society where the LAW ABIDING citizens are allowed to protect themselves. P.S., it is ignorant to think all of those who seek to legally obtain guns for protection are stupid, uneducated rednecks.... now, take those two barrels and polish em up real nice.

read previous statement please

What the hell is that suppose to mean?

Man i really want to read it but youre not making it easy for me.

USA = Uncivilized country

Why the fuck are you idiots shooting at the rescue workers??

Very few non americans will understand americas love hate affair with firearms. Statistics can be shown for either side on how the presence of firearms not only causes deaths and murders yet also reduces such crimes. So arguing these facts does not really do much good nor will it change the minds of those who believe otherwise.

One thing is very clear to me though at least. Our citizens rights to legally have firearms can very well be a good thing right now in such an event. Yes that means the criminals are also very well armed and without guns they could just as easily resort to molitov cocktails (much more deadly in such a situation) or other implements of destruction. Now what is clear to me is this. We were given our right to have arms to ensure the Government itself can be dealt with. Now feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen numerous reports as well as photos and the like of the police (Government) switching sides and becoming the criminals (looters). These criminals of course would have firearms regardless of the gun laws in the US. I personally would want and need to protect myself from such individuals.

so the question still stands.

FUCK THAT, every group has it's bad apples. i'm sure "YOU PEOPLE" are all saints aren't you?

You are joking.. aren't you?

And I suppose you don't have any idiots committing crimes in whatever nation it is where you are from.

No we are not all saints, but we don't pretend to be either.

We are not trying to "save" Iraq, Afganistan etc.

We are not calling ourselves "beacon of light" for the rest of the world.

you need to check yourself. a country does not think collectively.

this information was hand selected by the brady campaign 'now known as handgun control inc.' in an attempt to sway societies view of the gun issue. these so called facts were brought to light when sara and james brady were backing president clinton in the worst gun grabbing political hoopla the united states has ever seen. did suicide rates go down when the brady bill was enacted? no. did the amount of children "accidentally" shooting themselves decline? no. in fact kellerman himself upon being interviewed by the n.r.a. stated that much of the information he had drawn from did not include ALL cicumstances and situations that these incidents had occurred in. in later findings, the 43 times more likely to kill a family member was attributed to violent crime perpetrated by an inner city youths whom acted with a gun against a family member. surely those guns were not abtained LEGALLY, yet they were obtained through the BLACK MARKET. as far as suicide goes, the amount of people who kill themselves by means of a gun are far outwighed by those killing themselves in various other ways. now ask yourself this, what are the statistics of legal ccw permit owners who have thwarted an attack by a criminal? you dont have an answer. thats because many people who have ccw permits dont ever pull thier weapon when a percieved threat presents itself. more often than not the permit holder tells the actor that he is a valid ccw permit holder and is carrying his weapon. at this point the agressive actions are usually halted. what about the incidents where the weapon is actually used you say? well let me enlighten you again. the ratio of citizens using thier legally owned handgun to stop an attacker, whom were found that they had legal cause to take a life, exceeds the ratio of trained police who are justified to take a life. in short, ccw permit holders know the law, know whats right and wrong, and are educated in the use of deadly force, and often times will exude every possiblity to seek an alternate means of ending the confrontation. hence the higher numbers of LEGAL ccw permit holders being cleared of wrongful shootings than police.

Couple of Muslims are terrorists and most of you label ALL muslims as terrorists.

You are ALL uncivilized to me.

i'm sure uneducated people in your country come to stupid conclusions too.

for example: you.

furthermore, "a couple" of muslims would be Al Queida, and I assure you, that is... was a massive organization. but that's another conversation completely.

Black people - USA's own terrorist

Who the fuck is going to read that rambling megaparagraph? Fuck you.

Lord of the Flies: The New Orleans Generation

these people are ungrateful bastards for shooting at their rescuers, I certainly hope karma whips around and bites them on the ass pdq

no. fuck you. illiterate dipshit, lmao. uneducated much?

fuckin keyboard warrior, jeez. people wanna get all self rightious n shit. i was ed-u-catin' em.

well... you could have separated the main ideas into paragraphs at least....

lol, ok, good point.

oh that's just lovely

At least we don't cut off people's heads and blow up innocent kids and say it's justified.

Canada has FAR stricture gun regulations for those who were wondering about the gun laws Canada vs USA. Its damned near impossible to get your hands on a gun in Canada. There's a licensing procedure that you have to go to, and the guns are not simply sold in Wal-Marts like they are down in the US.

Now, that aside... this is not an issue of "One country's crime rate vs another country" This is not an issue of "USA=Whatever other people want to slap a label on it"

This is an issue of ONE AREA of the USA that is in crisis. It is NOT a reflection of the entire country and I am NOT a fan of the states, but I am going to stick up for the USA Government & Citizens in this situation. The LAWS cannot be held responsible for the laws being broken, the people breaking the laws can. The people of the United States should not be held responsible for what a select few choose to do. The people who choose to shoot at the rescuers, can be held responsible, but do NOT point the finger at the entire US and accuse gun laws as being responsible for this. If we want an analogy, the US is most definitely NOT liberal on murders... some states still have the death penalty, but murders still happen.

To all those of you in the US who are being affected by this (whether you realize it or not) my heart goes out to you... I do hope you manage to make it through this without the entire country erupting in civil war

*bump* for those who haven't seen this thread...

Dearest Sin...

It is damn near impossible for responsible law abiding Canadians to get guns, it is not for criminals.



http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/issue...082205nn5.html

High-level' drug bust in Abby

By Ken Henry - Times

Abbotsford police made one of their biggest drug busts in recent years on Aug. 5, seizing machine guns, crack cocaine, ecstasy, pot and close to $100,000 from a townhouse.

Const. Casey Vinet said after police received complaints about the house in the 2000 block of Winfield Drive, they watched it closely for four months.

Then, in the early morning hours of Aug. 5, they made their move.

What they found inside alarmed Vinet.

"It's very disturbing to know that these weapons are out in the community," said Vinet, noting that police also found two handguns, two silencers and a ballistic vest in the home.

"We believe this is a mid- to high-level drug-trafficking operation," he said. "When you consider the amount of drugs with the amount of cash and the type of weapons that were recovered, it suggests it's more than just a street-level operation."

Jonathan Bacon, 24, and Raylene Burton, 29, of Abbotsford have been charged with possession of a controlled substance for the purpose of trafficking, possession of a prohibited weapon and careless storage of a firearm. Godwin Cheng, 30, also of Abbotsford, has been charged with three counts of possession of a controlled substance for the purpose of trafficking.

Vinet said all three are known to police and two of them are believed to have been living in the townhouse.

No trial dates have been set and Burton has been released from custody.


-=-=

Sucks since I know Godwin.

Give poor people better jobs/more money and you wont have so many crimals, it's simple but most people are nihilists and dont care.