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#1

For those who don't believe in God (Atheists) I need your explanation about something

08-20-2005, 11:56 AM

No bullshit reason like

"Well it's just the way it is, no one created anything.. Everything is just a coincidence, there is no God".

Allright, here is the question :

How do you explain the Big Bang?

If there is no "God", why was there a Big Bang?

Let's all forget about religion here.. No Jesus stuff..

I am talking about a poinf of view where a superior intelligent form (God) pushed the button a created a Big Bang.
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#2

08-20-2005, 12:00 PM

I love how religious people use the "then how do you explain how this happened" reasoning....

Just because science can not yet explain something, doesn't mean that some invisible man is responsible for it.

Also, by using the "big bang happened because of god" argument, all you're doing is pushing the "how do you explain" back one level.

If you believe in god, how do you explain where he came from? He just, always was and always will be? Who/What created god? No one? Then why do you find it hard to believe that no one / nothing created the universe?

I have a hell of a lot easier time believing that the universe just "always was", than believing some imaginary invisible of infinite being of infinite power and intelligence "just always was"........

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#3

08-20-2005, 12:01 PM

This goes into some ways it could have happened

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

but the simple fact remains that we may never know. I've always found being able to say "I don't know, but I'll try to find out." a lot more powerful than saying "I know everything, and it's all written in this book, if you don't believe like I do, you'll suffer."
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#4

08-20-2005, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by BoyAlley

I have a hell of a lot easier time believing that the universe just "always was", than believing some imaginary invisible being "just always was"........

Well you are wrong. The universe was not always like that. The Big Bang had to happen.

And like I said, no religion stuff here.. What makes you think I am talking about "just always was" God?
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#5

08-20-2005, 12:04 PM

religion was created to profit. end of story.

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#6

08-20-2005, 12:05 PM

i can't explain how it happened but it did and there must be a scientific explanation...

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#7

08-20-2005, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

Well you are wrong. The universe was not always like that. The Big Bang had to happen.

I agree with you that the big bang happened. Science has some theories about "why" and "how", but even over the past 5 years those theories have been changing. Science just doesn't know yet.

However, I'd be willing to bet the answer isn't "an invisible man did it"....
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#8

08-20-2005, 12:07 PM

Religious debates never work out well.
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#9

08-20-2005, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by StickyGreen

i can't explain how it happened but it did and there must be a scientific explanation...

I am not asking you how, but why?
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#10

08-20-2005, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by JuiceMonkey

religion was created to profit. end of story.

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#11

08-20-2005, 12:12 PM

Sure, people can use science to explain the universe, but you can't use science to explain why the elements were there in the first place?

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#12

08-20-2005, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by JuiceMonkey

religion was created to profit. end of story.

I don't want to talk about religion. Thank you.

Re-read my first post.
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#13

08-20-2005, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

I am not asking you how, but why?

The universe is completely random - there is no why - if you don't believe in God, there is also no reason to believe in fate or Reason - there is only Chaos Theory. You could be dead tomorrow - it's not fate - it's a chance meeting of circumstance.

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#14

08-20-2005, 12:13 PM

I used to think about this stuff constantly as a kid and it drove me absolutely nuts. Not getting into religion vs science because with either explanation the simple fact of us or anything being here is impossible. I doubt the human mind could even grasp how anything came to be if something or someone were to explain it to us. ;)

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#15

08-20-2005, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by JuiceMonkey

religion was created to profit. end of story.

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#16

08-20-2005, 12:16 PM

I dont know how the big bang happend.. never went to school
dont believe in science.. its all voodoo .. hocus pocus!!!!

burn the non believers!

...

uhm wait.. wrong anwser .. wanted to type .. use google.

http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&ct=res...HdN8beROS5gOAE

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#17

08-20-2005, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by chadglni

I used to think about this stuff constantly as a kid and it drove me absolutely nuts. Not getting into religion vs science because with either explanation the simple fact of us or anything being here is impossible. I doubt the human mind could even grasp how anything came to be if something or someone were to explain it to us. ;)

Exactly. It is beyond human comprehension (at least at this point in our evolutionary process) to conceptualize the reason for existence. I believe you would go insane if you actually could understand the chance circumstances that put everything into motion for our "existence"

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#18

08-20-2005, 12:16 PM

Since we are leaving jesus and whatnot out of it..

My question for you would be.. why do you think the existance of god would be required FOR the big bang to happen?

In science, it's ok to not know why things happen. It's just not ok to say things like "well since we don't know, it must be X".

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#19

08-20-2005, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

I am not asking you how, but why?

i don't believe there is a reason "why," i think it was a completely random act of science...it just happened because it could...

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#20

08-20-2005, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by badmunchkin

The universe is completely random

Yes, there is a theory right now saying that the universe is using the "chaos theory"

But I am talking about the Big Bang here. No chaos theory. I am not talking about the explosion, but why were there elements to create the upcoming Big Bang explosion in the first place?

I know there is a cake now, but where did the stupid butter, flour, sugar.. come from? Why was is there?
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#21

08-20-2005, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by JuiceMonkey

religion was created to profit. end of story.

Religion has little to do with God or creation of the universe.

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#22

08-20-2005, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by StickyGreen

i don't believe there is a reason "why," i think it was a completely random act of science...it just happened because it could...

That's a simple answer, just like the bullshit religion excuses, God is forever because he simply is..

But I still respect your answer.
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#23

08-20-2005, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

Yes, there is a theory right now saying that the universe is using the "chaos theory"

But I am talking about the Big Bang here. No chaos theory. I am not talking about the explosion, but why were there elements to create the upcoming Big Bang explosion in the first place?

I know there is a cake now, but where did the stupid butter, flour, sugar.. come from? Why was is there?

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#24

08-20-2005, 12:21 PM

Hey I have another question for Atheists, what do YOU think happens when you die? Do you have a soul? Are you still able to think, touch, see, smell, whatever, in the grave? Or do you just cease to exist? The thought of just "not existing" is a scary and depressing thought.

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#25

08-20-2005, 12:21 PM

God created the Big Bang.

SuperGod created God.

SUPERDUPERSTUPENDOUSGOD created Supergod.

And they all stand on the back of a giant turtle.

And yes, it's turtles all the way down.
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#26

08-20-2005, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by colpanic

Since we are leaving jesus and whatnot out of it..

My question for you would be.. why do you think the existance of god would be required FOR the big bang to happen?

In science, it's ok to not know why things happen. It's just not ok to say things like "well since we don't know, it must be X".

What makes you think I believe in God? I just wanted to see answers.
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#27

08-20-2005, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by colpanic

My question for you would be.. why do you think the existance of god would be required FOR the big bang to happen?

Exactly. End of discussion really, it can't go further unless we actually knew about the "Big Bang" in detail, which we don't. We have theories, not fact. Until we do, it's an endless circle.
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#28

08-20-2005, 12:23 PM

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#29

08-20-2005, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

Yes, there is a theory right now saying that the universe is using the "chaos theory"

But I am talking about the Big Bang here. No chaos theory. I am not talking about the explosion, but why were there elements to create the upcoming Big Bang explosion in the first place?

I know there is a cake now, but where did the stupid butter, flour, sugar.. come from? Why was is there?

from my understanding another universe collapsed and formed the point from which the big bang occured. this cycle has gone on forever.
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#30

08-20-2005, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by rezdesign

Hey I have another question for Atheists, what do YOU think happens when you die? Do you have a soul? Are you still able to think, touch, see, smell, whatever, in the grave? Or do you just cease to exist? The thought of just "not existing" is a scary and depressing thought.

Thanks, but there is another thread discussing that already.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=506060
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#31

08-20-2005, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

Sure, people can use science to explain the universe, but you can't use science to explain why the elements were there in the first place?

No you can't, just because there was nothing there in the first place. The whole "God created everything including me" theory is just there for those who can't understand that our universe and all the rules and laws that apply here aren't everything there is. In the "beginning" there was nothing, and out of nothing become something, go figure.

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#32

08-20-2005, 12:24 PM

NoCarrier perhaps you have a theory on what caused the big bang? Although I don't see any 'non religious' papers on it being started by 'some all powerful being'.

Thus far science has only theories on the big bang. But there is an answer, even if it is one that we can't find. But saying that 'God' did it is not a good enough answer for me.

The church has gone quiet on Adam and Eve lately too (ow yeah I remember now, the church thought they just came out of thin air from the big guy) - knowledge is the only way to find answers, sticking your head in the sand and saying 'Some higher power' did it is for the weak minded.

Enjoy Sunday Mass NoCarrier.

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#33

08-20-2005, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by rezdesign

Hey I have another question for Atheists, what do YOU think happens when you die? Do you have a soul? Are you still able to think, touch, see, smell, whatever, in the grave? Or do you just cease to exist? The thought of just "not existing" is a scary and depressing thought.

My dad is Catholic and has also told me that same thing. I can see where he's coming from, it is pretty strange when you think about it, to just not exist. I don't know the answer though, so I'd rather not speculate, I'll wait till it happens and find out then.

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#34

08-20-2005, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by rezdesign

Hey I have another question for Atheists, what do YOU think happens when you die? Do you have a soul? Are you still able to think, touch, see, smell, whatever, in the grave? Or do you just cease to exist? The thought of just "not existing" is a scary and depressing thought.

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#35

08-20-2005, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

I know there is a cake now, but where did the stupid butter, flour, sugar.. come from? Why was is there?

Cuz' God has a sweet tooth???

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#36

08-20-2005, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by spacemonk

and all the rules and laws..

rules and laws of the universe? How could that be? Rules and laws just randomly appeared from nowhere?
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#37

08-20-2005, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

Yes, there is a theory right now saying that the universe is using the "chaos theory"

But I am talking about the Big Bang here. No chaos theory. I am not talking about the explosion, but why were there elements to create the upcoming Big Bang explosion in the first place?

I know there is a cake now, but where did the stupid butter, flour, sugar.. come from? Why was is there?

mmm..... cake
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#38

08-20-2005, 12:26 PM

Better question is, how do you (religion) explain the Big Bang? Science has come up with a pretty definite answer on most things that have happened on this planet and the universe.

And an oldy but, related, goody:
If God created the universe, who created God?
Did some other power just "push a button"?
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#39

08-20-2005, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Sly

My dad is Catholic and has also told me that same thing. I can see where he's coming from, it is pretty strange when you think about it, to just not exist. I don't know the answer though, so I'd rather not speculate, I'll wait till it happens and find out then.

Well, if nothing happens, you won't find out.
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#40

08-20-2005, 12:26 PM

There is NO big bang. Just like a dream, this will all just go away, none of you exist.

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#41

08-20-2005, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

Thanks, but there is another thread discussing that already.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=506060

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#42

08-20-2005, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by rezdesign

The thought of just "not existing" is a scary and depressing thought.

scary, but true...

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#43

08-20-2005, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

How do you explain the Big Bang?

If there is no "God", why was there a Big Bang?

NoCarrier,

I'm an atheist, have been for years. The answer to your to your question is:

No one knows there was a big bang. Just as absolutely NO ONE knows that god exists.

There is no evidence for the existence of God, and no on one knows where humans or life or the universe came from, regardless of how many theists make up stories about the origin of it all.

The big bang may be the most prevalent theory of it all at this point in time. Certainly more credible than the big bearded man in the sky. However, if there was a big bang, why did it occur? no one knows. If god made it, then who made god?

As an atheist I prefer to simply say: Existence exists, it prolly always has existed, as did the universe. Why? Who knows. We're here, and life is great!

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#44

08-20-2005, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by junction

If I hadn't of had a six pack, and 2 vicodin, I would be all over this.

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#45

08-20-2005, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by fuzzylogic

from my understanding another universe collapsed and formed the point from which the big bang occured. this cycle has gone on forever.

Exactly, and that "universe" had very little if anything in common to this one most probably

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#46

08-20-2005, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by NoCarrier

rules and laws of the universe? How could that be? Rules and laws just randomly appeared from nowhere?

there is nothing random about it. i hate hearing religous ppl saying that science is random.
everything is defined and with purpose. science does not play dice.
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#47

08-20-2005, 12:30 PM

It's pretty simple. We don't know ANYTHING about our universe. We have no idea why we are here, or even if there is a "why" to be answered.

We have five physical senses, and everything thing we can really know enters through them. We see in a very limited spectrum of light - who knows what the world really looks like? We know that everything is made of energy at some level, and that there are many forms of energy that we haven't even begun to understand. Maybe there really is no such thing as "mass" - maybe it's all energy at very low frequencies and we perceive things to be solid. Maybe they are solid, but only within our sphere of existence.

I don't believe there really is anything called "time", except within our own experience. I think we've created the idea of time as our brains developed to add order to a chaotic existence that our five senses simply couldn't handle without it. Holding onto an idea of time, we'll never be able to entertain the concept of anything that does not have a beginning. We'll always ask the question "but what came first?" when there probably is no "first" of anything.

Bottom line - we don't know shit about the universe, how it works, where it cames from, what it truly is. Our little brains can not handle it. Yet.

And that's why the concept of divine intervention was born. Over history, anything our little minds could not understand was attributed to a god of some sort. Not much has changed, except now our major religions have reduced the divine pantheon to one supreme god. Not much progress, really...
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#48

08-20-2005, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by fusionx

It's pretty simple. We don't know ANYTHING about our universe. We have no idea why we are here, or even if there is a "why" to be answered.

We have five physical senses, and everything thing we can really know enters through them. We see in a very limited spectrum of light - who knows what the world really looks like? We know that everything is made of energy at some level, and that there are many forms of energy that we haven't even begun to understand. Maybe there really is no such thing as "mass" - maybe it's all energy at very low frequencies and we perceive things to be solid. Maybe they are solid, but only within our sphere of existence.

I don't believe there really is anything called "time", except within our own experience. I think we've created the idea of time as our brains developed to add order to a chaotic existence that our five senses simply couldn't handle without it. Holding onto an idea of time, we'll never be able to entertain the concept of anything that does not have a beginning. We'll always ask the question "but what came first?" when there probably is no "first" of anything.

Bottom line - we don't know shit about the universe, how it works, where it cames from, what it truly is. Our little brains can not handle it. Yet.

And that's why the concept of divine intervention was born. Over history, anything our little minds could not understand was attributed to a god of some sort. Not much has changed, except now our major religions have reduced the divine pantheon to one supreme god. Not much progress, really...

Very well said.

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#49

08-20-2005, 12:33 PM

Do not confuse the terms "Athiest" with "Agnostic" here. The religious nuts love to paint everyone as evil non-believers. Agnostics, which are far more prevalent than Athiests, are simply trying to figure it all out, and in lieu of actual proof, refuse to commit to any one set of beliefs.
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#50

08-20-2005, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by High Quality

If god made it, then who made god?

cute

As an atheist I prefer to simply say: Existence exists, it prolly always has existed, as did the universe.

that is a logical idea based on observation. however, the best idea from the best minds suggested that universeS (more than one) have always existed, one after anothr.
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