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SuckOnThis

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#1

Legal question about a vet bill

08-18-2005, 10:51 AM

My dog broke his jaw so my regular vet sent me to a specialist. When I went there the specialist advised me to let them wire his mouth for 6 weeks so it will heal properly. The cost would be close to $1000. So I let them go ahead and do it and within 8 hours the wires and glue (they use an epoxy to keep the wires on his teeth) completely came out. So I took him back and they told me some story about the epoxy being defective and to let them try it again. When I went to pick him up they told me that my dog had already worked them out and they wouldnt stay, so at that point they suggest to just let it heal on its own.

I told them I thought they should refund some if not all of the money back since the procedure didnt work. They said they spent a significant amount of time on this and would not refund a penny. What do you all think, who's right here?
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#2

08-18-2005, 10:53 AM

Sounds like a case for Judge Judy. Tough call either way.

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#3

08-18-2005, 10:59 AM

Board so slow I couldn't add to that. Since they fell thru on their part I would lean towards you being right. If they say no to a partial refund then you have to decide if it's worth it for small claims court.

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EroticySteve

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#4

08-18-2005, 11:01 AM

I'm not a lawyer, so this isn't legal advice just my experience and opinion on the subject of vets and areas of responsbility.

Almost a year ago I was faced with a deluge of vet bills when my little baby dog broke her leg. I didnt' have vet insurance, in retrospect it would have been $35/mo well spent.

I too had complications in the healing process and my costs nearly doubled.

The vet only has so much control and can only take so much responsiblity for the process and the outcome.

Veterinarians are doctors, who go through school and training that is often far more extensive than your average family physician. People expect them to work for free and be a source of Charity in a time of need.

I used to feel the same way. When I saw that despite the complications they helped my dog beat the odds, keep her leg and actually walk on it when other vets said that would never happen, well it was money well spent, even though I could have bought 10 new dogs.

I'm sorry to hear that things didn't work out as you'd expected. This isn't a situation of fault or blame. You're paying for the service and not the results. I understand their Point of view and mine would be the same.

However, if it's a matter of life and death and paying the bill would put you in hardship I would hope that they would show some compassion.

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broke

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#5

08-18-2005, 11:01 AM

They provided the service you paid them for... twice.

Are you actually looking for money back warranties on dog dental service? Maybe I should write my Congressmen...

The bigger question is why you'd pay that much to get a fleabag's jaw "set"?

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After Shock Media

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#6

08-18-2005, 11:03 AM

To me it seems like they did a free do over anyways and even that did not take. They did spend the time doing it twice and it really is not their fault that your dog is able to wiggle its way out of it.
I sort of see it like when one of my animals had to go in for some expensive surgery and that still only ended up prolonging the pets life a few days before it died from complications that the surgery was for in the first place. I never saw it as a guarenteed fix. I still paid the bill since they did their best.

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SuckOnThis

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#7

08-18-2005, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by After Shock Media

To me it seems like they did a free do over anyways and even that did not take. They did spend the time doing it twice and it really is not their fault that your dog is able to wiggle its way out of it.
I sort of see it like when one of my animals had to go in for some expensive surgery and that still only ended up prolonging the pets life a few days before it died from complications that the surgery was for in the first place. I never saw it as a guarenteed fix. I still paid the bill since they did their best.

I really don't think this compares to complications during surgery, that really is something they have no control over. I would think since they are specialists they would know if a dog would be able to work them out or not, and yet they did not mention at all that it may not work. If they did I wouldnt have done it to begin with. I compare this with going and getting your car painted and the next day the paint comes off and they tell you the metals bad, sorry.
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#8

08-18-2005, 11:25 AM

Did they or did they not wire the fleabags jaw shut twice?

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#9

08-18-2005, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by broke

Did they or did they not wire the fleabags jaw shut twice?

I'll let you know as soon as I ask your boyfriend if there was any problems with you sucking on his cock.
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#10

08-18-2005, 11:31 AM

Next time just call 1-800-pet-meds. It will save you the cost of the vet and they ship you the kit direct so you can try and glue the damn thing on yourself.

Of course you have to pay the bill. You aggreed to the proceedure. Granted it didn't work. But you agreed to try it.

If your Doctor gave you a shot to try and cure your illness and the shot didn't work you still have to pay for the visit and the shot. In fact you would have to pay for another visit and a second treatment until something did work.

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broke

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#11

08-18-2005, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by SuckOnThis

I'll let you know as soon as I ask your boyfriend if there was any problems with you sucking on his cock.

Cute.

I'll take that as a yes. Sue them and post the court records... we'll all have a good laugh.

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#12

08-18-2005, 11:33 AM

You took a chance, it didn't work, they tried for you a second time for free which was pretty nice of them. Why be a cheaspskate about it?

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Doc911

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#13

08-18-2005, 11:46 AM

I really don't think this compares to complications during surgery, that really is something they have no control over.

Your vet had control over whether your dog struggled its way out of a wired jaw? Sorry I'm not buying that. Its your dog you control him. You should have made him calm down and stop fighting it.

I would think since they are specialists they would know if a dog would be able to work them out or not, and yet they did not mention at all that it may not work. If they did I wouldnt have done it to begin with.

Its not about being able to work their way out. Of course they can. A dog can pull their own teeth out if they fight it enough. Thats why the glue breaks instead of your dog gumming its food for the rest of its life.

Its the disposition of the animal that dictates whether they would fight the proceedure or be passive and submit. Its up to YOU to inform the Vet ... " Hey Doc I'm thinking fluffy is not going to go for that very well. She'll probably fight it and be miserable. Maybe if you gave me some thorazine I could keep her sedated or something " Then he might suggest an alternative course of action.

I compare this with going and getting your car painted and the next day the paint comes off and they tell you the metals bad, sorry.

your kidding right? Your comparing a vet that went to school for 6+ years to help you save your dogs jaw to a 17 year old punk working for Macco?

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#14

08-18-2005, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by SuckOnThis

I really don't think this compares to complications during surgery, that really is something they have no control over. I would think since they are specialists they would know if a dog would be able to work them out or not, and yet they did not mention at all that it may not work. If they did I wouldnt have done it to begin with. I compare this with going and getting your car painted and the next day the paint comes off and they tell you the metals bad, sorry.

It was not due to complications during or from the surgery, it was complications from what the surgery should of fixed.

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#15

08-18-2005, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Doc911

Next time just call 1-800-pet-meds. It will save you the cost of the vet and they ship you the kit direct so you can try and glue the damn thing on yourself.

Of course you have to pay the bill. You aggreed to the proceedure. Granted it didn't work. But you agreed to try it.

If your Doctor gave you a shot to try and cure your illness and the shot didn't work you still have to pay for the visit and the shot. In fact you would have to pay for another visit and a second treatment until something did work.

I disagree. There is a legal term called detriment of reliability. Meaning if a professional advises you to follow a certain course of action and you suffer damages related to that then they are liable for your damages. Your analogy would be comparable if the wires held for the time they were supposed to and the dog did not heal. A more comparable situation would be if you broke your leg and the doctor placed a cast and the cast fell off the next day. The doctor would be responsible for his shoddy work, not you.
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#16

08-18-2005, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by ThunderBalls

Meaning if a professional advises you to follow a certain course of action and you suffer damages related to that then they are liable for your damages.

Define the damages incurred by SOT and quantify them monetarily.

End by telling me why he doesn't owe for services rerendered.

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#17

08-18-2005, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by ThunderBalls

I disagree. There is a legal term called detriment of reliability. Meaning if a professional advises you to follow a certain course of action and you suffer damages related to that then they are liable for your damages. Your analogy would be comparable if the wires held for the time they were supposed to and the dog did not heal. A more comparable situation would be if you broke your leg and the doctor placed a cast and the cast fell off the next day. The doctor would be responsible for his shoddy work, not you.

Sorry I didn't realize you dog suffered further damage due to the treatment he recieved. You only mentioned that the wires came out. Maybe they should have used a stronger glue so the dog could have pulled his teeth out instead. Then you would have a case for liability of damages. The glue did exactly what it was supposed to do. It held until your dog pulled it loose.

If A doctor placed a cast on my leg and I went home and tryed to pry my way out of it (as I'm sure your dog did with the wire) and the cast came off. I would have no case. And neither do you

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#18

08-18-2005, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Doc911

Sorry I didn't realize you dog suffered further damage due to the treatment he recieved. You only mentioned that the wires came out. Maybe they should have used a stronger glue so the dog could have pulled his teeth out instead. Then you would have a case for liability of damages. The glue did exactly what it was supposed to do. It held until your dog pulled it loose.

If A doctor placed a cast on my leg and I went home and tryed to pry my way out of it (as I'm sure your dog did with the wire) and the cast came off. I would have no case. And neither do you

You're correct, I have no case because it isnt my dog. I was merely commenting from a legal standpoint. Your argument is flawed and here's why. You are dealing with an animal, not a person. With a person a doctor has reasonable expectation that they are not going to try to pry a cast off, in the case of an animal a vet should also have reasonable expectation that they WILL try to pry whatever is on them. Now, if he was told this may not work then thats one thing. If he was not told that then the dog owner has reasonable expectation that it will work and was simply following the recommendations of the vet. A vet, especially a specialist should know what types of breeds are more prone to this and should have taken this into account. It is also unreasonable to expect a dog owner to watch over the dog 24 hours a day for 6 weeks to prevent the dog from trying to get them out.
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#19

08-18-2005, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by ThunderBalls

You're correct, I have no case because it isnt my dog. I was merely commenting from a legal standpoint. Your argument is flawed and here's why. You are dealing with an animal, not a person. With a person a doctor has reasonable expectation that they are not going to try to pry a cast off, in the case of an animal a vet should also have reasonable expectation that they WILL try to pry whatever is on them.

Thats true and also why the glue comes off. So the animal doesn't hurt himself further.

Originally posted by ThunderBalls

Now, if he was told this may not work then thats one thing. If he was not told that then the dog owner has reasonable expectation that it will work and was simply following the recommendations of the vet.

The Vet reccomended the best course of action in this situation. He suggested setting the jaw to prevent movement and aid in the healing process. As with any medical practise, there is "always" the possibility that the proceedure will not work.

Originally posted by ThunderBalls

A vet, especially a specialist should know what types of breeds are more prone to this and should have taken this into account. It is also unreasonable to expect a dog owner to watch over the dog 24 hours a day for 6 weeks to prevent the dog from trying to get them out.

LOL you have got to be fucking kidding. Yep thats a chineese dog he'll probably try to work the wires loose. Yep Thats a African dog He'll work the wire loose as well. Breed has nothing to do with whether a dog will fight the wire or not.

And yes of course its reasonable to expect a dog owner to watch over their animal and help to make sure they heal properly. I've taken my pets to the office after surgery or fixing(up) to keep an eye on them. I'm sure others have as well.

I appologize for saying "you" as obviously you didn't make the thread. My over site. But you are wrong in this case. You can trust that. He'll pay the bill or get sent to the bill collectors by the vet. The vet did his job within reason and will get paid.

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#20

08-18-2005, 12:58 PM

I would sue them
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#21

08-18-2005, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by tony404

I would sue them

i'm glad i'm not the only one who feels this way lol.

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#22

08-18-2005, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by SuckOnThis

they told me some story about the epoxy being defective and to let them try it again.

Did they use the same epoxy both times? If it was indeed defective epoxy that was the problem, I would ask for some type of refund and let the vet take it up with the company that supplies them with epoxy.

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ThunderBalls

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#23

08-18-2005, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Doc911

LOL you have got to be fucking kidding. Yep thats a chineese dog he'll probably try to work the wires loose. Yep Thats a African dog He'll work the wire loose as well. Breed has nothing to do with whether a dog will fight the wire or not.

Oh okay, so you're going to sit there and tell me that a poodle has the same strength in their bite as a pit bull. Of course breed matters when it comes to this particular issue. From what I know about wiring a dogs mouth it is done on the back teeth, so its not like they can reach with their paw and dislodge it.

Originally posted by Doc911

And yes of course its reasonable to expect a dog owner to watch over their animal and help to make sure they heal properly. I've taken my pets to the office after surgery or fixing(up) to keep an eye on them. I'm sure others have as well.

Obviously you want to argue for the sake of arguing. No it is not reasonable for the average person to keep a 24 hour eye on their dog. I'm not sure where you got it in your head that vets or doctors can do no wrong and are immune from paying for their mistakes. I definitely think this person is owed a refund of some sort.
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#24

08-18-2005, 04:49 PM

Half of you are fucking retarded.

The Vet recommended the procedure he/she thought would be best. It didn't work out perfectly, these are living creatures not glass figurines, shit happens. The Vet offers to re do th surgery, this is also standard. It comes to pass that it simply isn't going to work, and that the best remaining course is to leave it to heal.

Shit happens people, fucking deal with it. My sister, a Vet, performed an operation on one of my dogs that didn't fix the dog's knee like it was intended to. They performed the operation a second time, and it's healing much better.

You're not entitled to a refund. Those of you who are suggesting they would sue are particularily stupid and should kill themselves pronto.

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#25

08-18-2005, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by tony404

I would sue them

Of course you would.

Man I wish I didn't have to pay a doctor bill every time medicine didn't clear up a problem I had, that would be great.

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#26

08-18-2005, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Doc911

Next time just call 1-800-pet-meds. It will save you the cost of the vet and they ship you the kit direct so you can try and glue the damn thing on yourself.

Of course you have to pay the bill. You aggreed to the proceedure. Granted it didn't work. But you agreed to try it.

If your Doctor gave you a shot to try and cure your illness and the shot didn't work you still have to pay for the visit and the shot. In fact you would have to pay for another visit and a second treatment until something did work.

and this is funny as all get out

Next time just call 1-800-pet-meds. It will save you the cost of the vet and they ship you the kit direct so you can try and glue the damn thing on yourself.

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#27

08-18-2005, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by WarChild

Half of you are fucking retarded.

Those of you who are suggesting they would sue are particularily stupid and should kill themselves pronto.

you are so wrong.... it's way more than half...

2 fucking stupid 2 know they are stupid.

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#28

08-18-2005, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Doc911

Your vet had control over whether your dog struggled its way out of a wired jaw? Sorry I'm not buying that. Its your dog you control him. You should have made him calm down and stop fighting it.

You are making stupid comments like this when you don't know the whole story. The dog was under anthestesia, he was out cold when I picked him up. I hadnt even got home and one of the wires was laying on the seat WHILE HE WAS STILL SLEEPING.

When I brought him in again I told the vet that I was hesitant to do it again because it would be the third time in a week he would be under anthestesia and I didnt want him traumatized more. He assured me that this time it would work. If he would have told me he wasnt sure I sure as hell wouldnt have put my dog through it again knowing that it would happen again. I agree that some money should be paid, but I don't agree a vet has a free pass to fuck up and mislead.
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