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aaron

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#1

Americans For Fair Taxation

08-05-2005, 11:43 PM

http://www.fairtax.org/

Whereas, the current U.S. tax code is widely regarded as unfair, complex, wasteful, confusing, and costly;

Whereas, the Internal Revenue Service is acknowledged to be deeply flawed, mismanaged and has victimized many innocent taxpayers;

Whereas, the American people deserve a tax system that:

*Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck and retirees to keep their entire pension;
*Closes all loopholes;
*Frees individuals from ever filing a tax return again;
*Abolishes the IRS and ends all audits of individual taxpayers;
*Eliminates all hidden federal taxes;
*Brings accountability to tax policy;
*Lets American-made products compete fairly; and
*Allows every family to buy the basic necessities tax-free.

The FairTax book is currently the #3 bestseller on Amazon.com, #1 in the Business category. Let's get this thing passed guys! As publishers of high traffic websites we could easily help spread the word.
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Carlito

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#2

08-05-2005, 11:49 PM

I say go for it... slow down 'big government' and speed up economy. The less taxes you pay, the more money you spend, the more money goes back into the economy.
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budz

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#3

08-06-2005, 12:23 AM

bump 4 a good idea :D

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aaron

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#4

08-06-2005, 12:52 PM

Be sure to sign the petition http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/opin..._petition.html
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Mr Pheer

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#5

08-06-2005, 01:07 PM

its an awesome idea but it will never happen, the politicians that get fat from taxes and giving tax breaks to big corporations will never allow it
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aaron

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#6

08-06-2005, 01:17 PM

i truly believe it possible. and the fact that bush is for it is great.
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#7

08-06-2005, 02:56 PM

ya I had a discussion with another person in the biz about this the other night after he brough it up. Some good info.
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#8

08-06-2005, 03:15 PM

Im sure all the gangstas are voting on this!

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cykoe6

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#9

08-06-2005, 04:07 PM

Nice post on a fucking great idea... if only it would really happen!

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aaron

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#10

08-07-2005, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by cykoe6

Nice post on a fucking great idea... if only it would really happen!

help make it happen. at least sign the petition on the site and tell a few others.
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#11

08-07-2005, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by Carlito

I say go for it... slow down 'big government' and speed up economy. The less taxes you pay, the more money you spend, the more money goes back into the economy.

We could use that thinking here in the Philippines. We pay close to US levels of taxes but get shit services in return. Socialism... third world style.

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ardy6931

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#12

08-07-2005, 03:19 PM

If it sounds too good to be true, it is. There isn't a chance in hell that we will ever get fair taxation in the states.

"capitolism, get fucked." Tony Montana
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tony286

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#13

08-07-2005, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by ardy6931

If it sounds too good to be true, it is. There isn't a chance in hell that we will ever get fair taxation in the states.

I have to agree, it will never happen in our lifetime.
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jayeff

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#14

08-07-2005, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Carlito

I say go for it... slow down 'big government' and speed up economy. The less taxes you pay, the more money you spend, the more money goes back into the economy.

Attractive as that idea is, unfortunately (which is the main reason why the Democrats' economic record over the past 50 or 60 years has been better than that of the Republicans) it doesn't actually work out that way.

Corporations given tax benefits do not generally invest the bonus in new jobs, and windfalls for the rich do not result in them going out on shopping sprees. However, when government - particularly federal government - spends money, it is frequently on projects which do generate jobs, many of them among the lower economic classes. And these people spend most of the extra they earn, since when such a cycle begins, many are not earning enough to do otherwise.

Worse still for those beating the "less big government" drum, once that money is actually circulating, it not only generates employment in the private sector, but also taxes almost every time it changes hands. That in turn makes it much easier to attempt to balance the local, state and national budgets.

And although elections are fought on a variety of issues, since WW2 the pendulum has swung back and forth between Democrat and Republican primarily according to this issue. Once the Republicans are in office, the economy usually slides and support eventually switches to the Democrats. Under the Democrats, enough of those who have seen their incomes grow finally begin to resent the taxes they pay and decide to vote Republican. And so it goes back and forth...
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#15

08-07-2005, 04:05 PM

not a bad idea at all

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ardy6931

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#16

08-07-2005, 04:24 PM

Former governor Jesse the body ventura had a pretty damn good idea for taxes. An across the board 15 % tax on all items and goods in the United States. Its not bad when you think about it legitimize all the underground operations in the country. Drug dealers, prostitues, what ever, they would all have to pay the same as anyone else.
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aaron

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#17

08-07-2005, 04:29 PM

the times they are a changin
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VeriSexy

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#18

08-07-2005, 05:39 PM

That will never happen, they keep it all confusing for a reason and they will find a reason to tax anything and everything...............

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#19

08-07-2005, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Carlito

I say go for it... slow down 'big government' and speed up economy. The less taxes you pay, the more money you spend, the more money goes back into the economy.

Ummmm...when the government collects taxes and then spends that money, it also goes into the economy.

There is no hard evidence that tax cuts improve the economy, only conjecture.

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tony286

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#20

08-07-2005, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by jayeff

Attractive as that idea is, unfortunately (which is the main reason why the Democrats' economic record over the past 50 or 60 years has been better than that of the Republicans) it doesn't actually work out that way.

Corporations given tax benefits do not generally invest the bonus in new jobs, and windfalls for the rich do not result in them going out on shopping sprees. However, when government - particularly federal government - spends money, it is frequently on projects which do generate jobs, many of them among the lower economic classes. And these people spend most of the extra they earn, since when such a cycle begins, many are not earning enough to do otherwise.

Worse still for those beating the "less big government" drum, once that money is actually circulating, it not only generates employment in the private sector, but also taxes almost every time it changes hands. That in turn makes it much easier to attempt to balance the local, state and national budgets.

And although elections are fought on a variety of issues, since WW2 the pendulum has swung back and forth between Democrat and Republican primarily according to this issue. Once the Republicans are in office, the economy usually slides and support eventually switches to the Democrats. Under the Democrats, enough of those who have seen their incomes grow finally begin to resent the taxes they pay and decide to vote Republican. And so it goes back and forth...

Your so very right, a rich person saves 100k they put it in the bank not the mall. The government gave the airlines a 6 billion dollar bail out and they still laid off a shit load of people. My friends works for a fortune 50 company making record profits every quarter and they keep letting people go.They say it keeps them competitive, the people left are doing 3 jobs for one salary. After laying off a shit load of people the ceo got a 75 million dollar xmas bonus.THat would of been a shit load of jobs
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#21

08-08-2005, 10:19 AM

Yeah, but starting talking about all the programs and institutions that would be massively scaled back and most people balk at such things.

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#22

08-08-2005, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by jayeff

Corporations given tax benefits do not generally invest the bonus in new jobs, and windfalls for the rich do not result in them going out on shopping sprees.

There is no right answer to this, but tax benefits also increase their profits, stimulating investment in the given company, making the company grow, which then years down the line actually increases tax revenue for the goverement.

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#23

08-08-2005, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by tony404

Your so very right, a rich person saves 100k they put it in the bank not the mall. The government gave the airlines a 6 billion dollar bail out and they still laid off a shit load of people. My friends works for a fortune 50 company making record profits every quarter and they keep letting people go.They say it keeps them competitive, the people left are doing 3 jobs for one salary. After laying off a shit load of people the ceo got a 75 million dollar xmas bonus.THat would of been a shit load of jobs

Stuff like that is sickening
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jayeff

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#24

08-08-2005, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by tony404

Your so very right, a rich person saves 100k they put it in the bank not the mall. The government gave the airlines a 6 billion dollar bail out and they still laid off a shit load of people. My friends works for a fortune 50 company making record profits every quarter and they keep letting people go.They say it keeps them competitive, the people left are doing 3 jobs for one salary. After laying off a shit load of people the ceo got a 75 million dollar xmas bonus.THat would of been a shit load of jobs

Greed and self-interest are among the strongest of inherent human traits. The main reason that capitalism seems to work better than socialism is because it utilizes these traits to provide its dynamic, rather than attempting to suppress them.

But we are also communal creatures and even were we not, there are many services and facilities that it is far simpler and more efficient to provide centrally. Unfortunately, greed and self-interest attempt to deny both these realities and because we are so good at deluding ourselves, capitalism may ultimately prove no more viable than socialism.

The very few people who are extremely wealthy can insulate themselves. They can switch their folios from company to company and from nation to nation. They can locate themselves wherever they wish and up to a point, create their own environments there. But the vast majority will never come close to that "portability". The best anyone else can do is get a home a few miles out of the ghetto and buy expensive toys to create the illusion that their lifestyles are not tied to the broader prosperity of the cities and countries within which they live.

Capitalism depends on mass markets. Simplistically, for someone to be able to afford a Ferrari (for the brand even to exist), the more people who can at least buy the cheapest Ford, the better. Thus it is almost always more productive to focus on baking a bigger pie than on trying to grab a bigger slice: especially if that means ignoring that the pie is shrinking.
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jayeff

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#25

08-08-2005, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Alan Greenspan

Understanding the income tax hoax...

That approach to the discussion of taxation (of which anyway income tax is only one aspect) is a lot like the way people dismiss national healthcare based only on the weaknesses of the Canadian system. It's a nonsense to take anything so completely out of context and to dismiss it because of the way that, historically, it has been administered.

We have a very real problem. So long as people will vote for the politicians who offer most and there is nothing to prevent them offering more than we can afford, the result will be debt. But that is not the problem of taxation itself and anyway, whatever name you use, payment for the provision of essential services and facilities is taxation: even if I pay my bills to privately owned companies.
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#26

08-08-2005, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Alan Greenspan

There's a significant court case...

At best, bringing suit against the very people we choose to elect is a paradox. At worst, it is an attempt to subvert the election process.

It may be unfortunate that nowhere in the Constitution is there any obligation on US citizens to vote at all, let alone to demonstrate some knowledge and wisdom if they do vote. We reelect 90%+ of all senators and congressmen who seek reelection and winners spend around 80% more on their campaigns than losers. Neither statistic suggests that the population exercises very much in the way of judgement.

Surprise, surprise, we end up with a government full of people who represent no-one but themselves and their backers, except coincidentally. Yet that is the peoples' choice. The case to which you have linked, not only seems highly quixotic (because even if successful it is unlikely to have any impact), but also akin to applying a bandaid to a near-severed arm.

If you are genuinely concerned about the failure of democracy's institutions, it would be more honest and potentially more effective, to tackle the failures of democracy itself.
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