Correct me if I'm wrong but has the british police KILLED an innocent man today?

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  • mardigras
    Bon temps!
    • Feb 2003
    • 14194
    #301
    New MO for muggers in London; just yell I'm a cop, frisk 'em, take whatever you want... shoot 'em if they catch on or resist... order any witnesses away by saying the victim has a bomb and you also need them to not contaminate your "crime scene", make your escape

    Edit: 300 mistaken bombers
    Last edited by mardigras; 07-24-2005, 12:43 PM.
    .

      Comment

      • evanmorgan
        Confirmed User
        • Aug 2004
        • 2490
        #302
        Originally posted by cjaccardi
        if they didnt shoot him and he had a bomb what then ?
        exactly, the police would be labelled as incompetent...
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          • coolegg2
            Confirmed User
            • May 2005
            • 210
            #303
            Originally posted by Relish XXX
            Everyone that lives in London agrees with him being shot.
            If true, that would be further evidence of my point; in the case of these recent terrorist acts in London, terrorism has worked very effectively.

              Comment

              • Relish XXX
                Confirmed User
                • Dec 2004
                • 4904
                #304
                Why dont you come over here and live how we are at the moment?
                We may come out with all this "Not Afraid" stuff but the bottom line is that when you get on the tube you are shitting it. I do it every day.

                The idiot died because he jumped a barrier. By the time he got to the barrier he would have seen the police and could have gone to them if he was worried about the undercover guys.

                  Comment

                  • mardigras
                    Bon temps!
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 14194
                    #305
                    Originally posted by cjaccardi
                    if they didnt shoot him and he had a bomb what then ???? this guy deserved to be shot and I dont think he is that innocent as they are saying right now, why flee from police, why jump the barrier why the long thick coat, why was he under surveilence why did he run ?? because he was guilty.
                    Read my post a couple up. Why haven't they released pics or videos of this person? Is it possible the coat wasn't as "heavy padded" as they make it seem and that the guy only favoried the person they "thought" he was as much as any 2 Asians would have common characteristics?
                    .

                      Comment

                      • mardigras
                        Bon temps!
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 14194
                        #306
                        Originally posted by evanmorgan
                        exactly, the police would be labelled as incompetent...
                        And right now they are being labeled what?
                        .

                          Comment

                          • mardigras
                            Bon temps!
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 14194
                            #307
                            Originally posted by Relish XXX
                            By the time he got to the barrier he would have seen the police and could have gone to them if he was worried about the undercover guys.
                            That's why I would like to see the footage around the incident. Maybe the cops at that particular platform were distracted by something else and actually weren't close by? I find this the most suspicious thing, they were so quick to present footage of the "others". Hell, if he was under surveilance seems like the cops should have been shooting their own video for evidence.
                            Last edited by mardigras; 07-24-2005, 12:51 PM.
                            .

                              Comment

                              • Relish XXX
                                Confirmed User
                                • Dec 2004
                                • 4904
                                #308
                                Originally posted by mardigras
                                That's why I would like to see the footage around the incident. Maybe the cops at that particular platform were distracted by something else and actually weren't close by? I find this the most suspicias thing, they were so generous with footage of the "others". Hell, if he was under surveilance seems like the cops should have been shooting their own video for evidence.
                                He was in Stockwell which has extra security anyway. That footage wont be released untill the inquest is over.

                                  Comment

                                  • mardigras
                                    Bon temps!
                                    • Feb 2003
                                    • 14194
                                    #309
                                    Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                    He was in Stockwell which has extra security anyway. That footage wont be released untill the inquest is over.
                                    Then maybe some of the people here most vigorously defending the incident would be better off waiting until they see it to judge it.
                                    .

                                      Comment

                                      • Relish XXX
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Dec 2004
                                        • 4904
                                        #310
                                        Originally posted by mardigras
                                        Then maybe some of the people here most vigorously defending the incident would be better off waiting until they see it to judge it.
                                        In my opinion, and I am from London and live 3 miles from Stockwell, you dont fuck around at the moment. He had the MO of a suicide bomber and died the way a suicide bomber should do.

                                        He must have been insane to jump the barrier at the moment especially when he actually had a valid train ticket.

                                          Comment

                                          • mardigras
                                            Bon temps!
                                            • Feb 2003
                                            • 14194
                                            #311
                                            Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                            He must have been insane to jump the barrier at the moment especially when he actually had a valid train ticket.
                                            That gives much credence to my opinion that he may have thought the person(s) he saw with a gun were out to harm him and in that fleeting moment of panic undercover cops never came to his mind.

                                            If he didn't see any uniformed cops his best bet was to run into the train with other people. That's why I'd like to see the footage and show me there were uniformed cops there he chose not to run to.
                                            .

                                              Comment

                                              • evanmorgan
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Aug 2004
                                                • 2490
                                                #312
                                                Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                                In my opinion, and I am from London and live 3 miles from Stockwell, you dont fuck around at the moment. He had the MO of a suicide bomber and died the way a suicide bomber should do.

                                                He must have been insane to jump the barrier at the moment especially when he actually had a valid train ticket.
                                                agreed, u gotta be on best behaviour at the moment, dont fuck around, not a good idea right now
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                                                  • Relish XXX
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Dec 2004
                                                    • 4904
                                                    #313
                                                    Originally posted by mardigras
                                                    That gives much credence to my opinion that he may have thought the person(s) he saw with a gun were out to harm him and in that fleeting moment of panic undercover cops never came to his mind.

                                                    If he didn't see any uniformed cops his best bet was to run into the train with other people. That's why I'd like to see the footage and show me there were uniformed cops there he chose not to run to.
                                                    Every station has uniformed police by all entrances at the moment. Why dont you understand that all Londons agree the guy got shot because of his own stupidity.

                                                    It is only people that dont live here that think he should have been given a slap on the wrist. How could they slap him on the wrist when he was running to the train?

                                                    It is a shoot to kill policy now. It worked with the IRA and will work again.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • mardigras
                                                        Bon temps!
                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                        • 14194
                                                        #314
                                                        Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                                        Every station has uniformed police by all entrances at the moment. Why dont you understand that all Londons agree the guy got shot because of his own stupidity.

                                                        It is only people that dont live here that think he should have been given a slap on the wrist. How could they slap him on the wrist when he was running to the train?

                                                        It is a shoot to kill policy now. It worked with the IRA and will work again.
                                                        What I understand is that a lot of people are saying what is and what should have been, but of the thousand articles at Google News not one confirming these things and after releasing photos and videos of the others within a day or so, there is nothing released from this incident. OK, so they want to finish their investigation. A single photo of him in a heavy padded jacket running away from uniformed cops would shut a lot of people up, including myself
                                                        Last edited by mardigras; 07-24-2005, 01:14 PM.
                                                        .

                                                          Comment

                                                          • thaifan99
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Jul 2003
                                                            • 3029
                                                            #315
                                                            You can add your own comment on the BBC News website..........

                                                            http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4711189.stm
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                                                              • nofx
                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                • Nov 2002
                                                                • 16826
                                                                #316
                                                                www.killpolice.com bitchessss

                                                                Often times I wonder why
                                                                There's love and hate, theres live or die.
                                                                When sickness comes I must decide:
                                                                When feelings go, theres suicide.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Gunni
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Apr 2003
                                                                    • 2385
                                                                    #317
                                                                    Originally posted by coolegg2
                                                                    Give me one other example where a person in the UK, mistaken for a terrorist or a serious criminal, has had their head blown off by five shots fired in rapid succession at close range by the police.

                                                                    My point still stands... clearly the shooting of this man, who was not a terrorist, in the manner in which he was shot, proves that the recent acts of terrorism have had the desired effect on the British police and citizens - namely to terrorize them. Not thinking clearly on critical matters is a sign that a person is experiencing terror. Even the London police admit an error was made in this critical life and death situation - it's hard to imagine the same error being made three weeks ago before the recent terrorism. In that sense the terrorist acts have worked. The British police are behaving as if London was fucking Saudia Arabia - mission accomplished for the terrorists.

                                                                    Furthermore, being in a state of terror may also explain the runner's errors in judgement. Which just reinforces my point; that terrorism works. It causes good people to show poor judgement.
                                                                    Mistake is a mistake, guy called it upon him slef, several eye witnesses have supported the claim, and I am sure the footage will be released during the investigation.

                                                                    If you look at page 5 of this thread you will see loads of examples of people killed as a result of the shoot to kill policy.

                                                                    Here is a story of a man pointing a wrapped up table leg at the police and getting shot.
                                                                    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3974461.stm

                                                                    It was clearly an error and they should appoligize, I am not doubting that, but until these police officers have been proven guilty they are innocent. All evidence so far supports their innocence.

                                                                    The same mistake could very well have been made 3 weeks ago, even 6 months ago. If the police would've had a tip about a potential terrorist, they go and monitor him, the suspect is in a thick jacked during hot weather and going onto clearly the most logical target for a terrorist, they ask him to stop and he runs for the train, would've been the exactly same situation.

                                                                    Not so long ago in Manchester a police man lost his life when an Al-Qaeda member stabbed him after they arrested him. He was too relaxed, wich is a luxury they can not allow them selfs.

                                                                    You have to remember that the police officer that shot him followed him beliving that he had a bomb and was just a couple of feet away from him when he opened fire. Thinking all the time that he could detonate a bomb any second, so shooting him 5 times is a good way to make sure that he doesn't. People can live after being shot in the head once (obviously depends where they get shot in the head), they would be knocked out but could regain consciousness, shoot to kill means exactly that, make sure he's dead!

                                                                    And once again, running away from armed police is always a bad idea, no matter if you are in a country that has never experienced terrorism or has just been attacked. It is stupid, plain and simple.

                                                                    And to Mardigrass, you have no reason what so ever to not belive that he ran, just because his cousin said it was unlikely what the hell does that prove? Why on earth would the police shoot him if he proposed no threat?

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • alexg
                                                                        IL4L.com
                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                        • 11287
                                                                        #318
                                                                        Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                                                        Do you live here? Everyone that lives in London agrees with him being shot.
                                                                        *cough* except umm... you know... that mayor dude

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                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • alexg
                                                                            IL4L.com
                                                                            • Aug 2003
                                                                            • 11287
                                                                            #319
                                                                            Originally posted by thaifan99
                                                                            You can add your own comment on the BBC News website..........

                                                                            http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4711189.stm
                                                                            NO

                                                                            The people surfing the BBC News website can add their comments to THIS THREAD

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                                                                              • Gunni
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Apr 2003
                                                                                • 2385
                                                                                #320
                                                                                I'm thinking of buying the newest T-Shirt in London
                                                                                This morning in Wandsworth I saw my first "DON'T SHOOT - I'm not Brazilian" t-shirt. A bit OTT, but perhaps Londoners should consider buying, and wearing Brazilian t-shirts as a sign of solidarity with the murdered young man.
                                                                                Mike, London
                                                                                But then again, maybe I'll pull on my Brazilian football shirt

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • mardigras
                                                                                    Bon temps!
                                                                                    • Feb 2003
                                                                                    • 14194
                                                                                    #321
                                                                                    Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                    And to Mardigrass, you have no reason what so ever to not belive that he ran, just because his cousin said it was unlikely what the hell does that prove? Why on earth would the police shoot him if he proposed no threat?
                                                                                    I think you have mistaken my points here. I am not saying I don't think he ran from police. I am challenging those who are certain he did when there has been nothing official confirming that and those who say what would have been happening at the scene when there has also been nothing confirming that either. The government changed it's story in a major way concerning this man, so why are people so quick to defend the latest version before the investigation is completed and any evidence released?
                                                                                    .

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Relish XXX
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Dec 2004
                                                                                        • 4904
                                                                                        #322
                                                                                        Originally posted by alexg
                                                                                        *cough* except umm... you know... that mayor dude
                                                                                        He has to apologise. It is his job.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • mardigras
                                                                                            Bon temps!
                                                                                            • Feb 2003
                                                                                            • 14194
                                                                                            #323
                                                                                            And another thing for you to ponder. If they were so certain this man was a potential problem why did they let him get all the way to the train before taking action? The official story does say they followed him from a house.
                                                                                            .

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • thaifan99
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Jul 2003
                                                                                                • 3029
                                                                                                #324
                                                                                                Wonder if the rumours about that Brazilain guy being an "illegal resident" and being well known on the gay scene affect some peoples opinions here lol
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                                                                                                  • alexg
                                                                                                    IL4L.com
                                                                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                                                                    • 11287
                                                                                                    #325
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                    I'm thinking of buying the newest T-Shirt in London


                                                                                                    But then again, maybe I'll pull on my Brazilian football shirt
                                                                                                    I heard ken livingstone plans to wear a fake suicide belt to express solidarity with the terrorists...

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                                                                                                      • mardigras
                                                                                                        Bon temps!
                                                                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                                                                        • 14194
                                                                                                        #326
                                                                                                        Originally posted by thaifan99
                                                                                                        Wonder if the rumours about that Brazilain guy being an "illegal resident" and being well known on the gay scene affect some peoples opinions here lol
                                                                                                        Were do you read he was an "illegal resident"? The articles I've read said he was legal.
                                                                                                        .

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • Gunni
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • Apr 2003
                                                                                                            • 2385
                                                                                                            #327
                                                                                                            Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                            And another thing for you to ponder. If they were so certain this man was a potential problem why did they let him get all the way to the train before taking action? The official story does say they followed him from a house.
                                                                                                            They didn't know anything about the guy, but yeah, a good question is actually why did they let him get on the bus? Maybe the bus was to empty to be a prime target I don't know, but sounds like the most logical explanation to that. Sure you have to question things, and that is why there will be an official investigation. I'll be the first one to appoligize if it is proven that the officer used exessive force.

                                                                                                            There are a few things that have to be answered, but to me it is clear, why would the police shoot him if they weren't convinced that he was an extreme threat to public safety? The man reacted in the wrong way and unfortunately payed for it with his life. And it is pretty clear that he did jump the ticket barrier, and he did run for the train after he was asked to stop.
                                                                                                            Nothing justifies those actions by them man, what the hell di he run for??

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • Gunni
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                • 2385
                                                                                                                #328
                                                                                                                Originally posted by alexg
                                                                                                                I heard ken livingstone plans to wear a fake suicide belt to express solidarity with the terrorists...
                                                                                                                And I hear Isreal plans to continue killing innocent Palesitinian babies...

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • directfiesta
                                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                    • 30184
                                                                                                                    #329
                                                                                                                    Report: U.S. blocked terror suspect charge

                                                                                                                    Jul. 24, 2005 at 5:29PM

                                                                                                                    A man wanted for planning the July 7 London bombings was kept from being charged in 2002 by U.S. Justice Department turf battles, the Seattle Times reported.
                                                                                                                    Haroon Aswat was suspected of trying to set up a terrorist training camp in Bly, Ore., in the late '90s. Law enforcement officials in Seattle, where Aswat lived for a time, began tracking him, and in 2002 prepared an indictment.
                                                                                                                    Sources told the Seattle Times Justice Department officials stopped the process because they wanted the case handled from a New York office they felt had more counter-terrorism experience.
                                                                                                                    "It was really frustrating," a former Justice Department official told the newspaper. "Guys like that, you just want to sweep them up off the street."
                                                                                                                    I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                                                                    But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • stev0
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                        • 6801
                                                                                                                        #330
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by eroswebmaster
                                                                                                                        You run from guys with guns telling you to stop and guess what you might get shot.

                                                                                                                        The only person I'm running from who has a gun drawn and telling me to stop is some guy trying to jack me.
                                                                                                                        The cops were undercover, and this guy was asian... maybe he didn't speak english and thought they were trying to jack him?

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • Gunni
                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                            • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                            • 2385
                                                                                                                            #331
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by stev0
                                                                                                                            The cops were undercover, and this guy was asian... maybe he didn't speak english and thought they were trying to jack him?
                                                                                                                            He ws Brazilian and he spoke English.
                                                                                                                            Also a gang of ten or more armed people is not a common thing in England, so if they say they're the police 99.9999% chances is that they're telling the truth, as any person living there for years would know...

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                                                                                                                              • mardigras
                                                                                                                                Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                • 14194
                                                                                                                                #332
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                He ws Brazilian and he spoke English.
                                                                                                                                Also a gang of ten or more armed people is not a common thing in England, so if they say they're the police 99.9999% chances is that they're telling the truth, as any person living there for years would know...
                                                                                                                                The dead man had not lived in London for years, but where he did live for years a gang of armed people 99.9999% chances weren't police and should be avoided. Old habits die hard.
                                                                                                                                .

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                                                                                                                                  • tristan_D
                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                    • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                                    • 7865
                                                                                                                                    #333
                                                                                                                                    I think injustice like that happen everywhere but only some are really reported.
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                                                                                                                                      • Relish XXX
                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                        • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                        • 4904
                                                                                                                                        #334
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                        The dead man had not lived in London for years, but where he did live for years a gang of armed people 99.9999% chances weren't police and should be avoided. Old habits die hard.
                                                                                                                                        3 to 4 years he how long he had been in the UK. Fuck it he shouldnt have jumped the barrier. He got shot.

                                                                                                                                        We have a system for getting rid of terrorists and it works. We had to put up with the wankers called the IRA for years. The bottom line is this 'Shoot to Kill' policy works.

                                                                                                                                        When the police tell you not to move in the UK it is highly advisable not to move.

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • Gunni
                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                            • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                            • 2385
                                                                                                                                            #335
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                            The dead man had not lived in London for years, but where he did live for years a gang of armed people 99.9999% chances weren't police and should be avoided. Old habits die hard.
                                                                                                                                            3 years is plural, so yes, he had lived there for years.
                                                                                                                                            And having lived there for years he either had to be completely unaware of the place he was living in to think he should run from the cops for no aparent reason, or he had a reason to run.
                                                                                                                                            I know for sure that I would not try to run from the cops in Brazil as they most likely would shoot you (as he should know being a Brazilian).

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • Gunni
                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                                • 2385
                                                                                                                                                #336
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                The dead man had not lived in London for years, but where he did live for years a gang of armed people 99.9999% chances weren't police and should be avoided. Old habits die hard.
                                                                                                                                                oh and actually, gangs of armed pepole in Brazil, I'd say it was 50/50 on that

                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                  • Relish XXX
                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                    • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                                    • 4904
                                                                                                                                                    #337
                                                                                                                                                    Shoot to kill policy works

                                                                                                                                                    http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=228

                                                                                                                                                    The British wiped out the IRA using it. We will now do it again against the suicide bombers fucking with us.

                                                                                                                                                    Where are the IRA now? On their knees begging for their piece of shit country back.

                                                                                                                                                    Hate the way we do things? Well you live with it. Want to come into our country and fuck with us? Pay back it final. We invented beheaded people in public. Want to see us get nasty?

                                                                                                                                                    http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=228

                                                                                                                                                    Most of the times we didnt even bother to turn up at the court trials.

                                                                                                                                                    To all people crying about the guy getting shot. Blow me. When British police say "Dont move" it is highly advisable not to move.

                                                                                                                                                    The more bullets that are pumped into idiots that fuck around disobeying the British the better.

                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                      • Drake
                                                                                                                                                        Hello world!
                                                                                                                                                        • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                                                        • 12508
                                                                                                                                                        #338
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by eroswebmaster
                                                                                                                                                        You run from guys with guns telling you to stop and guess what you might get shot.

                                                                                                                                                        The only person I'm running from who has a gun drawn and telling me to stop is some guy trying to jack me.
                                                                                                                                                        Yep

                                                                                                                                                        If dudes in plain clothes are pointing guns at me, I'll put my hands up and say it's cool take anything you. Losing some chump change isn't worth my life.

                                                                                                                                                        Especially when there is bombings going on... it's a hyper sensitive situation.
                                                                                                                                                        Last edited by Drake; 07-24-2005, 04:22 PM.

                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                          • mardigras
                                                                                                                                                            Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                                            • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                            • 14194
                                                                                                                                                            #339
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                                            3 years is plural, so yes, he had lived there for years.
                                                                                                                                                            And having lived there for years he either had to be completely unaware of the place he was living in to think he should run from the cops for no aparent reason, or he had a reason to run.
                                                                                                                                                            I know for sure that I would not try to run from the cops in Brazil as they most likely would shoot you (as he should know being a Brazilian).
                                                                                                                                                            I made the word years bold as to distinguish between 3 years and enough years to be totally absorbed into the lifestyle of a new country. Semantics as that may be, the last part of your statement is what is exactly repeating the main points I have been countering in this thread. The cops were not in uniform... there has been no mention of actual uniformed cops on the scene until afterwards... there has been no video released to even suggest that he may have known he was running from cops, and from the way the story is being told it sounds like they followed him all the way to the station, then at some point he jumped the turnstyle and rushed to the car, tripping as he did.

                                                                                                                                                            Until video is presented showing him running prior to jumping the turnstile, in a "heavily padded coat" or near uniformed officers, everything that you and a couple of others in this thread are trying to espouse as facts is nothing more than your opinion.

                                                                                                                                                            Sorry, I'm just a stickler for that "until proven guilty" thing.
                                                                                                                                                            .

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                                                                                                                                                              • mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                                                • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                                • 14194
                                                                                                                                                                #340
                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                                                                                                                                                We have a system for getting rid of terrorists and it works. The bottom line is this 'Shoot to Kill' policy works.
                                                                                                                                                                I sure hope the carte blanch "kill anyone who fits the profile" policy will never be accepted here
                                                                                                                                                                .

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                                                                                                                                                                  • mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                    Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                                                    • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                                    • 14194
                                                                                                                                                                    #341
                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                    oh and actually, gangs of armed pepole in Brazil, I'd say it was 50/50 on that
                                                                                                                                                                    Careful, you're supporting my argument
                                                                                                                                                                    .

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                                                                                                                                                                      • mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                        Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                                        • 14194
                                                                                                                                                                        #342
                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                                                                                                                                                        To all people crying about the guy getting shot. Blow me. When British police say "Dont move" it is highly advisable not to move.
                                                                                                                                                                        Well then the fuckers need to be in uniforms.
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                                                                                                                                                                          • Relish XXX
                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                            • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                                                            • 4904
                                                                                                                                                                            #343
                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                            Well then the fuckers need to be in uniforms.
                                                                                                                                                                            what part of he ran past armed police and normal police all in uniform who were standing by the barrier dont you understand?

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                                                                                                                                                                              • Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                • 2385
                                                                                                                                                                                #344
                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                Sorry, I'm just a stickler for that "until proven guilty" thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                Ofcourse not, you're from a S-state in the USA, you lynch people with out evidence

                                                                                                                                                                                There is nothing that says this is not exactly what happened, you're just making things up, where have you ever heard anyone say that they did not identify them selfs as police?

                                                                                                                                                                                There is also nothing that says the cop was not wearing a pink elephant suit and shot him with an apple, at least I've never heard anyone deny that...
                                                                                                                                                                                maybe that is what actually happened, when we get the video then you'll all see!!! Pink Elephant suit and an apple I say!!!

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                                                                                                                                                                                  • mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                    Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 14194
                                                                                                                                                                                    #345
                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                                                                                                                                                                    what part of he ran past armed police and normal police all in uniform who were standing by the barrier dont you understand?
                                                                                                                                                                                    Post me a reputable link that says he pushed past uniformed police (preferrably published after the government retracted the statement they knew he was connected to the attacks the day before )
                                                                                                                                                                                    .

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                                                                                                                                                                                      • mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                        Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 14194
                                                                                                                                                                                        #346
                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                                        Ofcourse not, you're from a S-state in the USA, you lynch people with out evidence
                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not familiar with your term S-state.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                                        There is nothing that says this is not exactly what happened, you're just making things up
                                                                                                                                                                                        Uhm, are you dense? You are proving my point. There is nothing that has been presented to the public that says this is or is not exactly what happened. Your judgement on what happened is like a trial jury making their decision after only hearing opening statements and never hearing any evidence.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                                        where have you ever heard anyone say that they did not identify them selfs as police?
                                                                                                                                                                                        You obviously breezed over my earlier posts before debating. That is why I broke this one down into step by step bits for you. Where did I ever say nobody "identified" themselves as police?

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not making a judgement on what actually happened until there is video or pictures collaberating the truth in the very different government's version Vs. witnesses versions or at least the testimony of those witnesses on the record and you should do the same.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Last edited by mardigras; 07-24-2005, 05:06 PM.
                                                                                                                                                                                        .

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                                                                                                                                                                                          • Relish XXX
                                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                            • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 4904
                                                                                                                                                                                            #347
                                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                            Post me a reputable link that says he pushed past uniformed police (preferrably published after the government retracted the statement they knew he was connected to the attacks the day before )
                                                                                                                                                                                            I live just down from the station. I often pass through it. I know what the security is like there and at all stations now.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                              • mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                                Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                                                                                • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 14194
                                                                                                                                                                                                #348
                                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Relish XXX
                                                                                                                                                                                                I live just down from the station. I often pass through it. I know what the security is like there and at all stations now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                In other words you can't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Unless you were at the station when this happened you have no idea what was going on the minutes prior nor know for sure that there were uniformed cops at the turnstile he jumped over. Half the world is debating it, they can issue a couple pictures and reduce the roar.
                                                                                                                                                                                                .

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • 2385
                                                                                                                                                                                                    #349
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm not familiar with your term S-state.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry, ment southern state.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Uhm, are you dense? You are proving my point. There is nothing that has been presented to the public that says this is or is not exactly what happened. Your judgement on what happened is like a trial jury making their decision after only hearing opening statements and never hearing any evidence.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ok, if eye witness statements are not evidence in your eyes then the I don't understand how the legal system works where you're from
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                                    You obviously breezed over my earlier posts before debating. That is why I broke this one down into step by step bits for you. Where did I ever say nobody "identified" themselves as police?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    kind of sounds like it in the quote here below

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                                    That gives much credence to my opinion that he may have thought the person(s) he saw with a gun were out to harm him and in that fleeting moment of panic undercover cops never came to his mind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm not making a judgement on what actually happened until there is video or pictures collaberating the truth in the very different government's version Vs. witnesses versions or at least the testimony of those witnesses on the record and you should do the same.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    All testimonies by witnesses have sofar supported pretty much what the cops said. The man ran like mad onto the train and got shot, he jumped the ticket barrier and he was wearing a thick coat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Recent events have also shown that he had an expierd visa, so that is the most likely reason for his actions. But not even in Brazil does the police draw guns at people that have expierd visas (I know that from first hand experience).

                                                                                                                                                                                                    It is a tragedy, but to me it's the same as if he had got startled and ran into inncomming traffic and got killed, the police could not be blamed there either

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                      • mardigras
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Bon temps!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 14194
                                                                                                                                                                                                        #350
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                                                        All testimonies by witnesses have sofar supported pretty much what the cops said. The man ran like mad onto the train and got shot, he jumped the ticket barrier and he was wearing a thick coat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        You mean like these witnesses?:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        By far the most controversial claim comes from a number of witnesses who have cast doubt on police statements that they shouted a warning or identified themselves to the suspect before opening fire.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lee Ruston, 32, who was on the platform, said that he did not hear any of the three shout ?police? or anything like it. Mr Ruston, a construction company director, said that he saw two of the officers put on their blue baseball caps marked ?police? but that the frightened electrician could not have seen that happen because he had his back to the officers and was running with his head down.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mr Ruston remembers one of the Scotland Yard team screaming into a radio as they were running. Mr Ruston thought the man that they were chasing ?looked Asian? as he tumbled on to a waiting Northern Line train.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Less than a minute later Mr Menezes was pinned to the floor of the carriage by two men while a third officer fired five shots into the base of his skull.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Again, Mr Ruston says that no verbal warning was given.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...707480,00.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Recent events have also shown that he had an expierd visa, so that is the most likely reason for his actions.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        He must have forged documents that he showed his family.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        "He showed me about three months ago the visa and the Home Office letter. He had a five year visa."
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?s...nd_to_see_cctv
                                                                                                                                                                                                        BTW, the article above raises my main question:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        "They have to answer why they let a guy they suspected of terrorism takes a bus, and why they waited for a busy place, a crowded place, before they shot him. They shouldn't hide anything."
                                                                                                                                                                                                        One more:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Gunni
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Another family member said that he had recently been attacked and robbed in that area by a gang of young white men and thought the plain-clothes officers were muggers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...707480,00.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                        How 'bout that... I practically Columbo'd that one...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        If the behavior is "inexplicable", there's usually an explaination.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        .

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