China's military on the upswing! yay!

50

I miss woj 50's.
All other's just aren't the same.

This is very true, and brings to mind a point a friend of mine brought up a couple weeks ago. A unique "benefit" of what's going on in Iraq is a lot of US soldiers are getting a lot of experience in dealing with enemies of a 'new type'. If you took a soldier out of a situation like Iraq and put them into a situation like that of a standard war, I honestly feel that they would do better than the average soldier that's only fought in conventional wars before, or is just out of boot camp.

their being trained to become police officers in iraq, nothing more,nothing less

The USA does not have to defeat the Chinese nation, but rather only the ruling party.

In fact the USA has been setting up a lot of developing countries for the big economic fall if they should oppose the USA.

If there is an attack on Taiwan, China will have all economic activity with the west frozen and they will not be able to transact any of the currency reserves they have. A couple months of this will completely destabilize the government there.

Destabalize the public, then what....start shooting them to shut them up? I doubt they care about losing a million or 2 freedom loving traitors amongst them with the balls to overthrow

And if 50 million starve during the war, they still have 1billion 950million left to re-populate

Dont all you Armchair Generals have something better to do on Saturday afternoon?

with all the money we owe to china they will probably storm troop our shores and break our legs mob bookie style

China is the new Russia. It's what China and Russia want which is why Russia is gladly sharing its technology with China. They want to continue being the couterweight in the world.

I sort of agree. I don't think China is at that stage yet though. They're building rapidly towards being the great counterweight, they're just not quite there yet.

2 billion + people....& those are just the ones counted

remember you have to have a permit to have one....so theres alot more that go uncounted, they don't just destroy them when you fuck up & have 2

you give 2 billion people forests full of lumber, mines full of coal & they can probably just outright build small boats & invade the united states with sticks & stones if they wanted

No, really you can't. What happens when you pack 2 billion people in a country like that? You see how quickly SARS spread? A biological attack would be devestating.

The thought of a billion chinese in hand built junks sailing towards the mainland of the USA just sounds like a bad video game. Just how many boats full of chinese with rifles does it take to drop an Apache anyway?

There's still a fairly serious technological advantage to the USA, but it is changing.

take a game like command & conquer......build up 2billion units & send them at a wall of fire power

they get through no matter what the opposing technology

we can't get rid of rats in NYC, their not armed, & i don't think theres even 2 billion of them

China has the potential to be the power country of the 21st century, but they have alot of work and potential potholes to cover before they arrive at that point. So far, so good, but unless they can get the political systems aligned with the economic, there will be a typical Chinese political collapse which is recurrent in the history of the culture, IMO.

Even if they do become the power of the 21st century, open hostilities between the US and China is extremely unlikely. Both countries are now too interdependent and have too much to lose. And, for anyone who spends much time in both countries, the cultural values of the people are much more similar than even those between the US and Europe these days.

There will be friction, and China (which it has done historically) would like to become the dominant military in their sphere of the world, but don't hold your breath or make any investment decisions betting on a war over Taiwan, regardless of the rhetoric of politicians.

Dude.

No really.

Dude.

Did you just make an analogy out of a "game"?

Really?

Stop this thread and just burn it, then.

heh u just said anal

They're some freaky ass little people.

this pr0 dude is such a jerkoff it's not even funny. 2 billion chinks in wooden boats

oops.............

You eat my noodle you basta??

Look i've said it before, i'll say it again....you can try making the pr0 look bad...but he always wins.

Yup thats me speaking in 3rd person

You racist fucking troll. ::ignore::

need some more donation money loser boy?

Shoot the website in my sig a confession of the perfect way to get top listings in all search engines for any permeation of all possible combinations of the word "anal".

It won't take away that I said "analogy", but I'll forget a game was ever mentioned

is that all ya got?

One former military guy said that, that's not official policy. He doesn't speak for the government.

its apparent you don't have much

1.3 billion

I agree 100%.

If there ever was a war between us, China would win based on it's military strength. However, the country would loose all of it's economic might the moment the first shot fired.

With Russia and the cold war it was fear of nukes that stopped us. Now it will be a financial issue.

And the US should mind it's own damn business about Taiwan.

They are working on a Special Forces add on that will be just that..

nuclear weapons are SO 1980's

M.O.A.B is where it's at!

~Ray

i am depressed on saturday night thanks to yall now - shit

C-mon China just wants Taiwan back so that they can get into the childrens toys markets, and cheap souvenir market.

Face it Taiwan makes all the little stupid junk that fill toys stores all over America. It almost sounds like a plan made up by Dr. Evil himself.

Hey Mistah!! me love you long time!!

I think a lot of people are overexaggerating over a couple reports. China has been building a military for years, this isn't news. It is news when some people in the White House are trying to find any story that will deflect the Karl Rove one. I agree that some of what China is doing is disturbing, but this isn't news.

You guys also have to realize that China is a country that is trying to desperately gain wealth and become an economic power. Having a nice military is fine and dandy, but without an economic backbone, the country will collapse. The US is the biggest buyer of Chinese goods. Do you guys have any idea how much shit we buy from China and how much their economy depends on us? Without the US, their economy is nothing, and they collapse quickly.

As for allies, we still have them. I know everyone likes to think the world hates us, and I'm sure many do. But in the end, money talks. A stable America means a stable economy for the world. France can talk all the shit they want, but they need our economy to be strong and stable. In the end, these countries will support the US, as we are the lesser of two evils in the scenario.

Finally, China is still many years behind us. Our technology is still 10 years ahead of them, and we would win a war.

Yeah, maybe he meant "1200" just like you.

Materials?? WTF is in Taiwan??? If China wanted materials they would invade Africa or Australia

You should blame Israel for giving them the tech to build a jet fighter equal to the F-16. Israel sold China military tech and USA continues to send billions of tax payer dollars to them each year.



http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10.asp

Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)


JL-2 (CSS-NX-4)
The new JL-2 submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) is the sea-based variant of the DF-31 land-mobile long-range missile. Development of these missiles was accelerated following the successful test of their common 2m-diameter solid rocket motor in late 1983. The missile is apparently roughly comparable in size and performance to the American TRIDENT C-4 long-range multiple-warhead three-stage solid fuel missile missile that is launched from submerged submarines.

The missile will reportedly carry either 3 or 4 MIRV (90kT each) or a single warhead with a yield of 250-1000 kT. Other reports suggest that each missile might be loaded with as many as six warheads. Most reports agree that the JL-2 will ahve a range of about 8,000 km, while some reports suggest that the missile will have an estimated range at least 9,000 kilometers.

Some sources suggest that China tested the JL-2 in 1999, but as of December 2000, construction of the first Type 094 had apparently been delayed, and the PLAN had yet to test-launch the JL-2.

The first at-sea launch of China's JL-2 ballistic missile in mid-January 2001 was conducted from China's Golf-class trials submarine. The Chinese have modified the older Russian-made submarine, based at a naval port on the north China coast, for "pop-up" tests of the JL-2. The test involves ejecting the missile out of the submarine launch tube. China carried out another pop-up test of the JL-2 in October 2001. As of early February 2002 China was preparing to conduct another test of the JL-2.

On 02 December 2004 Bill Gertz reported that China conducted tests of the JL-2 in 2002 and 2003. The Chinese suffered a setback in the JL-2 missile program when a test flight of the JL-2 missile failed in the summer of 2004. The JL-2 missile program was delayed by the test failure but is continuing to be developed.

China test-fired a new long-range, submarine-launched ballistic missile on 16 June 2005. The missile was believed to be the Ju Lang-2. The new SLBM was reportedly fired from a nuclear submarine in waters off Qingdao, with the warhead impacting in a desert in China several thousand kilometers away.

This missile is probably designated the CSS-NX-4 by the US intelligence community, but many reports suggest that it is designated the CSS-NX-5

The prospects for the deployment of this missile remain obscure, given the protracted development effort of the associated DF-31, the initial deployment of which has slipped from 1998 to around 2003. Also worthy of note was the persisent absence of public reports of the start of construction of the Type 094 submarine that would be needed for the JL-2 missile.

On 02 December 2004 Bill Gertz finally reported that the new 094-class submarine had been launched in late July 2004. Construction of this submarine would constitutes a leading indicator for the JL-2's deployment schedule, since several years would be required for submarine construction, and probably an additional year or two for shake-down trials of the submarine, and testing of the JL-2 from the submarine.

In the 2004 edition of the US Department of Defense "Annual Report on the Military Power of the People/?s Republic of China" the deployment dates for two new Chinese ballistic missiles (DF-31 and JL-2) had slipped from "mid-to-late-decade" [reported in the 2003 edition] to "by the end of the decade".


Specifications
Contractor Academy of Rocket Motors Technology - ARMT
Configuration Three Stage
Length [meters] 10+
Diameter [meters] 2.0
Mass [kilograms] 20,000+
Propellant Solid
Guidance Inertial
First Flight 19
IOC 19
Deployment Type 094 SSBN
Range (km) 8,000
Re-entry Vehicle Mass (kg) 700 kg
Warhead Yield 3 or 4 MIRV @ 90 kT
1 @ 250-1000 kT
CEP (meters) 500 ??


http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/china/jl-2.htm

LAND-BASED BALLISTIC MISSILES Range 12,000 km

Type

Inter-continental range, road/rail mobile, solid propellant, single warhead or MIRV-capable ballistic missile.

Development

The Chinese are believed to have started the design and development of the Dong Feng-41 (DF-41) in 1986, with the operational requirement to have a solid-propellant, road mobile, ballistic missile with a range of 12,000 km to replace the CSS-4 (DF-5 and DF-5A) liquid-propellant missiles. The development and flight test for DF-41 is believed to be managed by the 2nd Artillery Corps, based at the Wuzhai test centre in Shanxi province. There has been one reported ground test, a simulated cold launch in October 1999, but no test flights to date, although as the DF-41 shares the first two stages of the DF-31 missile, the motor and flight tests for DF-31 will have contributed towards the DF-41 project. It is believed that the NATO designator will be CSS-X-10. Reports in 1996 suggested that DF-41 would have between two and nine MIRV warheads, but it is possible that the initial build missiles will have provision for either a single warhead or three MIRV, as DF-31. Unconfirmed reports in 1994 and again in 1996 suggested that the Chinese had been trying to obtain technologies from the Russian SS-18 `Satan', SS-24 `Scalpel' and SS-25 `Sickle' programmes, particularly advanced guidance capabilities. In 2001 both rail-car and cross-country TEL projects were noted for DF-31, and it is presumed that these might also be adapted later for DF-41. These launchers appeared to use a rail-car similar to that used with the SS-24, and a TEL similar to that used with SS-20 'Saber' and later SS-25.

Description

There are few details known about the DF-41 missile. It has three solid-propellant stages that are believed to have a 2.0 m body diameter. The separating warhead assembly is thought to carry a single 800 kg weight nuclear warhead with a yield variously reported to be 250 kT, 650 kT or 2.5 MT. As this missile uses the first two stages of DF-31 with a longer third stage, it is possible to estimate the likely specifications for DF-41. It is believed that the missile will have a length of 18.5 m, a diameter of 2.0 m, and a launch weight of 53,000 kg. It is expected to have a payload of 800 or 1,200 kg, with alternative warhead fits using either a single 1 MT warhead, or three MIRV with selectable yields of 20, 90 or 150 kT. It is expected that DF-41 will carry countermeasures. It is reported that the First Academy's 13th Institute (Inertial Navigation) has been researching star trackers to provide guidance updates since the mid-1970s, and it is expected that stellar navigation and GPS updates will be used in the DF-41 design to improve accuracy over the full range capability. The accuracy is expected to be around 500 m CEP. It is believed that the minimum range of DF-41 will be around 3,000 km, and the maximum range 12,000 km.
It is expected that the Chinese will store the DF-41 missiles in caves, but that they will be road mobile on wheeled transporter-erector-launcher vehicles or on rail-cars, and that the missiles will be launched from silos, TEL or rail-cars. At the October 1999 parade in Beijing, a new type of tractor-trailer vehicle was seen with four axles on each tractor and each trailer, and with the DF-31 missile in a launch canister mounted on the trailer. This TEL would be limited to main roads, and in 2001 a cross-country version was seen for DF-31, similar to the former USSR MAZ 547V TEL used with the SS-20 'Saber' IRBM system. It is expected that the Chinese will develop a larger cross-country TEL for use with DF-41, probably with seven axles, similar to the launcher used with the SS-25 ICBM. A rail-car launcher may also be developed for DF-41, similar to that used with the SS-24 ICBM.

Operational status

The DF-41 missile is expected to enter service in China between 2003 and 2005, and to be used to replace the CSS-4 (DF-5/-5A) liquid-propellant missiles. It is believed that some10 to 20 missiles will be built initially, but more may be added later.

Specifications

Length
18.5 m

Body diameter
2.0 m

Launch weight
53,000 kg

Payload
Single warhead or 3 MIRV, 800 or 1,200 kg

Warhead
Nuclear 1 MT or 3 MIRV with selectable 20, 90 or 150 kT each

Guidance
Inertial with stellar updates

Propulsion
3-stage solid propellant

Range
12,000 km

Accuracy
500 m CEP




Contractor

It is believed that DF-41 has been designed by the First Academy of the Ministry of Aerospace Industries . Development and test will be managed by the 2nd Artillery corps at Wuzhai test centre.


http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wm...c/df-41-01.htm

Beijing Simulates Long-Range Missile Launch: ReportCentral News Agency, Oct. 15, 1999

Hong Kong, Oct. 15 (CNA) Mainland China has successfully completed laboratory simulations of a launch of its latest multi-warhead intercontinental ballistic missile which can reach targets in most parts of the United States, the Hong Kong standard reported today.

Computer simulations of launches of the solid-fueled Dongfeng-41 ICBM have been completed and proven to be successful, the report quoted a mainland source as saying.

According to the report, the three-stage DF-41, an improved model of the older single-head DF- 5, can carry five to eight nuclear warheads, greatly increasing its striking capacity.

In addition to the increase in carrying capacity, the DF-41 has much greater mobility because it uses solidified fuel.

With the same 12,000 km range of the DF-5, the DF-41 can reach Europe and many parts of the United States.

The report quoted military and diplomatic sources as saying that the acquisition of technology to manufacture missiles capable of reaching most parts of American territory will force Washington to adjust its defense strategy and speed up the development of anti-missile defense systems.

The new missile could be deployed in five years if the central leadership decides to go ahead with the program, using the DF-41 to replace the older DF-5 model, the report said.

http://taiwansecurity.org/CNA/CNA-99...ge-Missile.htm