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Just say no to WOJComment
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Originally posted by bhutocracyNot defending NA, Not defending Karups.. I shouldn't even be posting..
It's unfortunate this happened - btw Mack - now i know why you didn't agree with me when i said i liked NA's member's area lol
It was great speaking with you the other day. And I tried to keep and open mind and be fair...LOL I just usually prefer an enormous amount of high quality exclusive content in a members section, that is updated multiple times a week.
But like our members I'm spoiled.Comment
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Yes I know why and who eveyone does biz with and who are good friends. all our circles and clicks run together eventually. It's a small biz and you don't want to burn bridges. but now we are all fighting for the same scrapsOriginally posted by shapI probably am going to get in shit for posting this, oh well.
I believe the reason the thread was locked lies in who makes money from Andreas. The thread was an absolute PR disaster for Andreas. Regardless of who is wrong or right he came off on the losing end of that thread. It was to the benefit of him and those that do business with him (mainly those that rely on his continued success and him pushing alot of bandwidth) for that thread to be closed. If you look at who he has close business ties with it was important for them to either step in or help out and lock the thread. That simple.
That being said I hope if I ever get into that situation I get the same treatment
Biz will be Biz the strong will survive
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Locking that thread wasn't the right way to handle itTodd Spaits - Co-founder -YanksCash
Premium ad-packages available - Skype for details - tmspaitsComment
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I'm had to exercise my lock down powers, I didn't want to do it... But I just could'nt bare to see any more dirt being thrown around ;)Originally posted by shap
DHComment
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Originally posted by bhutocracyI didn't want to comment because I respect both parties, but this hasn't been established at all. It's very easy for mistakes like this to happen, especially when using CMS's etc with a bunch of employees. If you don't have the experience of a decent sized team and running feeds and paysites based on a CMS or common files you should butt out.
Not that it means mistakes happen all the time.. but you certainly can see how easy it would be in a far clearer way than someone with absolutely no experience.
Not defending NA however, just saying thats pretty absolute from someone not involved at all, Lou on the other hand has a right to be angry as the agrieved party...
gah I shouldn't even be posting.. It's unfortunate this whole thing happened -btw Mack - now i know why you didn't agree with me when i said i liked NA's member's area lol
1) URL in a watermark on the images
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2) Running a Java Appelet scrolling at the top of all pages
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3) Clickable TEXTLINK above the thumpages for the models
=
a fully intentional and unprofessional attempt to steal members
That is all.Comment
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LOL I could tell you were smiling with clenched teeth lol, It was great talking with you as well and checking out bfcollection.com - you guys are nuts, over 2000 images just on the tour lol - I bet they're spoiled... and made me realise how much we need a twink site! spent too long ignoring that whole nicheOriginally posted by Mack
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Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
i wouldn't trust my life to any single nigga posting here, no exceptions
sorry, but you live only once ;-)Comment
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????????????????Originally posted by shapI probably am going to get in shit for posting this, oh well.
I believe the reason the thread was locked lies in who makes money from Andreas. The thread was an absolute PR disaster for Andreas. Regardless of who is wrong or right he came off on the losing end of that thread. It was to the benefit of him and those that do business with him (mainly those that rely on his continued success and him pushing alot of bandwidth) for that thread to be closed. If you look at who he has close business ties with it was important for them to either step in or help out and lock the thread. That simple.
That being said I hope if I ever get into that situation I get the same treatment
Five of the Top 10 Largest Programs Host with Jupiter. Find out why at http://www.jupiterhosting.comComment
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threads usually have an explaination when locked - the last post is usually from lens or eric and says why.Originally posted by Axeman
we're left to specualte in this one. it's not like the trolls were going crazy either - there was a LOT of MAJOR industry players posting in the thread that got locked.
i'm wondering if it was a jupiter hosting error?
This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!
Now read without the word dog.Comment
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Wow definitly the most serious thread I have seen in a long time :PRod Macdonald
Mainstream Ad Agency Owner
ICQ: 607306Comment
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Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
Here, let's illustrate this for those too lazy to click the links that have been posted.
First of all -
1) URL in a watermark on the images
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2) Running a Java Appelet scrolling at the top of all pages
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3) Clickable TEXTLINK above the thumpages for the models
=
a fully intentional and unprofessional attempt to steal members
Does that do ya fine? You really think that shit is a simple mistake?Comment
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Lensman is not amusedTrump haters gonna hate. that's all they can doComment
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jessica is so scary i think it's enough reason to give $3000 lolComment
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Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
And all that is one overwritten file or associated link in a CMS by the junior in the office hired to do the mindless but time intensive task of updating content sets.
Unlike you however I'm not going to make a call either way.. it's not my place.
NA could be guilty as sin or pure as the driven snow. We can't know on the evidence provided to us as third parties who's business it isn't really anyways.
It's just a shame it happened in the first place and came to this.Comment
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i really missed one out...better run over those threads again
~Accepting design works~ Comment
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Originally posted by bhutocracy
Are you paying attention? How could a scrolling applet be a mistake? Those don't just accidentally end up in the html.Comment
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I'm not saying it doesn't look bad, I'm just saying it's obvious you don't know how simply that mistake could be made. If it's the same as their paysites like they say - and when you have a bunch you do upsell to your others if they're in a different price or offering bracket and not part of the "all for one price" sites - then it seems like an obvious mistake.. someone has updated the wrong files and put the member's area content on the feeds.. it's as simple as mixing up "contentsetx_members" with contentsetx_feeds" in a list of 100's of text links to update in a CMS. If theres two versions of the same thing it's often just in a similarly name twin "content group"Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
Once again not defending or sticking up for NA here. I've had more to do with Karups in an ICQ message than NA, Just it's not the smoking gun you think it is. And it would be a shame for someone unrelated to the actual aggrieved parties to come balls out with "evidence" (which i saw in the other thread btw) that can be simply explained.
So once again.. I'm not saying they didn't do it on purpose.. it's just some of you don't understand how easy it would be even if it's only a 5% chance it's the way it happened.... but then again thats the GFY way.Comment
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Um.. have YOU been paying attention?? NA have scrolling applets in their members area.. they can SIMPLY end up in the feed version of html in a SIMPLE administrative error. If you don't understand this you shouldn't be commenting.Originally posted by DonovanPhillipsComment
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Jesus H. Christ. I'm sure they didn't notice the joins coming in either, from the Karups members area, right? Ooops.... didn't notice that we're getting joins from the links inside your members area... sorry about that.Originally posted by bhutocracy
Fuck. Are we intelligent people or sheep?Comment
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I'm not commenting on anything other than that one technical point because anything else will come across as a defense of NA and I have too much respect for Karups.Originally posted by DonovanPhillipsComment
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After reading the other thread cover to cover, my advice is this... wipe away all the garbage and in-fighting commentary and you're left with a simple customer service issue. NA has a dissatisfied customer, no more and no less. Issuing that customer a refund is warranted and I see no reason why they wouldn't be willing to agree to that. It would go a long way to clearing the mud off their faces, and trust me, a lot of webmasters have read that thread who prior to reading it had no negative opinion of your company.
Yes, no one asked for my opinion, but since this, like so many other grievances is being aired on a message board, I'm speaking up and recommending NA go the refund route and eat this one. You've lost the customer anyway, why not salvage possibly a few new ones and bury this issue once and for all? Can 3 months worth of feeds really be that big a hit to your pocket book? I seriously doubt it.
You're all obviously good people, that isn't the issue. The issue is how to fix this.
Think on what I've said and the correct course should become clear. :DPromote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!!
Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634Comment
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Thats exactly what I was trying to point out. even if it was a mistake it was a mistake so give them back the money. they were a very loyal customer for 4 years. sometimes its the only way even if you don't feel it's right.Originally posted by CDSmith
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I'm disappointed. That's all this is, huh?Originally posted by CDSmith
Let's see: someone attempts to steal members on purpose and it's just a "customer service issue"?
Are you aware of the term "big picture"?
This is a company attempting to steal the hard earned members of another, larger company. This is not a "customer service issue".Comment
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Fight the PowerOriginally posted by DonovanPhillips those who have programs understand those who don't won't
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I'm looking for the 'solve' here.Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
I hear what you're saying, but your way leads to 19 more pages of pissing Donnie.
Let the courts decide that point if it needs to come to that.
The bottom line here on the "big picture" is that one side claims it was a mistake, the other side says it was deliberate. Should we dwell on that point or should we focus on solving the grievance? I think at this point everything that needs to be said has been said, so focusing in the solution is what's needed now.
My suggestion will solve this. Period. It won't right all the wrongs though, so if anyone has a better suggestion let it fly.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!!
Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634Comment
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They offered a refund for a month (plus the whole exit traffic thing). They said the error had been in place for about 2 weeks so probably felt a month was more than fair. Karups demanded 3 months and wouldn't budge so NA stopped negotiations. At this point NA paying would look like an admission of guilt. Never should have come to the boards in the first place.Originally posted by CDSmithComment
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There is proof that there was content and links or whatever in the members area. There is STILL no proof of intent and probably never will be. Thus, claiming NA was trying to steal customers etc. is just libelous.Originally posted by DonovanPhillipsComment
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Then I guess I'm libeling them.Originally posted by Tempest
They're either thieves, or really fucking stupid.
I don't think they're stupid.Comment
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Isn't it worth eating a little extra cash to settle this mess? I would see it as less an admission of guilt as I would them (NA) doing what needs to be done to get this grievance solved.Originally posted by Tempest
It looks bad for them. To a lot of people it does look like a form of theft was going on, intentional or otherwise.
The only question remaining on the table is.... what are they going to do about it? NA has a dissatisfied customer. Put yourselves in Andreas place and THINK for a second.....
Is it worth issuing the 3-month refund that was asked for and clear this up and come out looking a little bit better than they do now, or is it better to be stubborn, dig in the heels and keep this piss match going for more weeks/months and possibly lose many more future clients?
How can this not make sense?Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634Comment
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There were no joins coming in genius. Get your lips off of Karups cock long enough to actually read what was written.Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
The links from the scrolling applet went to "inside naughty america" which is a $5 a month upsell for NA members that provides behind the scenes footage.
I don't even think you can join that site without being an NA member, and the link in the applet was done in "one click" format, where epoch saves all your customer information server side based on your member ID, and all you have to enter is something simple like your email address and you are "auto upgraded".
Notice the "auto upgrade" text in the scrolling applet link.
EVEN IF every member from Karups who saw that feed clicked that link. NONE of them would have been able to join that site.
If they were going to steal members don't you think that link would have went to a tour for a site they could have joined?
As for the url stamp on the images, it was done on 4 girls out of 110, and since socalstreams has ALL of the content from socalcoeds, why on earth would someone type in socalcoeds from the socalstreams page and pay money to access the content they are already getting???
Andreas had zero malicious intent here, and he tried to make things right, but because he wasn't willing to meet Lou's arbitrary price of a $6000 refund, he's getting smeared on the boards.sig too bigComment
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From the looks of this image it looks like there may have been some truth to the epoch one click upgrade story.
Not taking sides just an observation from an advanced surfer..
If in fact it was a epoch one click then the clicks were worthless if they were not coming from NA's epoch account.. This would lead me to believe it was an error.
Only those involved know if the links were going to a paysite or a members plus upgrade form..
EDIT I POSTED this while Lenny was typing.Last edited by datatank; 07-14-2005, 06:13 PM.Comment
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Of course it makes sense. But I don't believe some cash is what this is all about. It's about a 4 years business relationship going sour and there are some hurt feelings on both sides getting mixed in here.Originally posted by CDSmith
On one side Karups has a philosophy about how they treat their members and what should and should not be in their members area. NA stomped on that (accidentally or not) and then further added insult to injury by making light of it and offering to just make a "standard" compensation deal. That would insult Karups and thus they wanted 3 months and to severe business ties. I have a feeling Karups wants to only do business with people that at least "respect" their philosophy if not agree with it. NA's actions didn't really show any respect for that in my opinion.
On NAs side, they probably feel that a long term business associate and possibly friend is calling into question their integrity. If in fact it was just an honest mistake, that's a pretty big thing to have to swallow. You'd think that after 4 years there would be some serious trust built up and one would give the benifit of the doubt. So now their back is up.
A face to face meeting would probably get this settled in minutes once the non biz stuff was addressed.
But that's just my opinion and ain't worth the 1s and 0s it's written in.Comment
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My take on it is that a face to face isn't likely to occur. Again, I'm thinking resolution here, which means you have to ask "what is being asked for?" (demanded)Originally posted by Tempest
The dissatisfied client wants a 3 month refund. That's what it's going to take to at least make threads like this go away right now.
And at the risk of repeating myself, I did say that this course of action doesn't solve every point of contention, nor does it satisfy all parties fully... but in my opinion it is the best solution in a bad situation. Karups gets their refund, and NA gets this grievance off their back.
Whatever. It's just me thinking like a businessman. Some people prefer sticking to their guns and letting the bad press and animosity continue on for years to come, that's just not my way. My main urge first and foremost in these instances is to find a workable solution and get it done. Sometimes it's worth the ongoing fight, but sometimes... it really isn't. In my estimation this one isn't.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634Comment
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I said that in a good way. Meaning sometimes I cross the line and need somebody with the power to help make the situation go away like the socal thread.Originally posted by Big RayComment
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IMO Karup's shouldn't have leased content anyway because they don't need it!Comment
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Karups no doubt had the Socal feeds for my shooter Marco's content - too bad Andreas didn't appreciate it as much as Karup's and all my other customers do. Take a look what's in that site now.Originally posted by GatorI moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!Comment
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I just got back in town and caught up with the latest posts regarding this matter. I want to clarify a couple of things that I read about throughout the threads...
1) Andreas, we never once threatened to go to the boards, neither on the phone, e-mail, or any other means. You never heard those words come from us and you know it, so stop saying shit like we attempted to blackmail you. What made us hit the boards was you ignoring our calls & e-mails for over 2 weeks, then finally telling Lou "do what you have to do and we'll respond accordingly" or something along those lines, basically giving us the finger after you continued to ignore us. I assure you, had you handled this matter differently this would not have hit the boards. This isn't about money anymore and hasn't been for a long time, it's about you the way you handled the situation. You want to give us the finger and snub your nose at us over this issue, what do you expect us to do? Say "oh well"? No fuckin way, we make no apologies for making this issue public. Make no mistake, you brought this upon yourself.
2) A couple of people said something along the lines of us feeling like our biz was hurt by the backdoor links. That's not true. We simply feel like our trust was betrayed by somebody we had a very long relationship with. Did it hurt us financially? Nope. Did we lose any members? I don't see why we would have. BUT, when you have paid somebody $100k+ in the last few years for a service and they fuck you over by creating links in your members area (doesn't matter to us if it was intentional or not), you're gonna feel betrayed & be pissed off. When we obtained the service, you knew how strongly we felt against any watermarks on the pics, links on the pages, references to any other paysites, etc..., therefore we felt betrayed when we saw them.Jeff / EENT, Inc.
KarupsPC.com - KarupsHA.com - KarupsOW.com - BFCollection.com
XXXRewards - Highest Retention in the Biz
http://www.xxxrewards.com/Comment
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HAHAHAHAH can u get banned for that?Originally posted by MaDaltonat least you get a shirt now
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wow crazy stuff
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Page two? Damn.. page 3 around the corner!Comment
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ok, here's page 3 :D
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whats this upsell in the NA members area, are affiliate being paid commission on this upsell since its a revshare program?I host with VacaresComment
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... end of story
Originally posted by karupSIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Lou, can you hit me up? You won't regret 146 145 222Comment
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Originally posted by karup
I can guarantee we won't see Andreas or Ace in another Karups thread. LOL They learned their lesson the first time
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Still going?Comment
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thats what you should have done and I really hope you guys work it out.Originally posted by andrej_NDC Kiss and make up
Oops sorry thought it was Andreas handle
Last edited by RogerV; 07-15-2005, 09:04 AM.Comment
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Hi Andrej,Originally posted by andrej_NDC
I just hit you up on ICQ. Just hit me up when you get online.
LouisComment
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