CNN Report: Big Blue cutting workers in U.S., to hire 14,000 in India [link]

Well unless you want to work for the same wage as the Indians or pay more for your electronics then you can shut the hell up. Americans are so hypocritical and stupid sometimes. We want everything cheaper, faster and better but get pissed at all the wal marts, outsourcing, layoffs, etc. You can't get it all.

this is basically exploitation. IBM is 'Brilliant' they will be saving $$ - isn't this the American dream?

Problem with your short sighted view is, that when the US population isn't working, they won't have any money to buy even cheap electronics. Tell me where is IBM gonna sell their shit? India where they are paying 25¢ a day.

Why doesn't the pres go run India, he keeps sending US jobs there. He can fucking live there too.

Thank you

Come again

Well, you are touting the presidents opposition on this so lets look at the track record.

Its not secret that democrats fall on the big government side.


A few years ago, democrats were against private health insurance
A few weeks ago, democrats were against private social security
We know democrats are against private gun ownership
A few days ago, 4 liberal judges decided against the rights of private land ownership

Now, you are wanting another step and you are advocating against private industry.

Should the president step in and tell US corporations who they can hire?

Should he tell you who to hire to work at your company?


Is there anything you dont want the goverment to control?

i agree, we've been profiting off of slavery for several centuries, why stop now?

i say we keep getting while the gettings good

send all the work to china, where human rights are stomped on, & india, where children beg in giant droves on the street for pennies if you're a foreigner

and once we've created our elitest establisment again, enslaved the native people into utter chaos because their not the ignorant animals they once were thanks to the internet, we can only hope california drops into the ocean, creating an island that we can call Britain #2

OMFG do you read any news or do you just watch FOX.

First I never said I was a democrat, now did I.

What is going on now is just plain disgusting and un-american. The republican party ( the one that I used to be a part of) is based on less government, privacy, and fiscal responsibility. The party has been hijacked by right wing reilgous freaks and war mongers.

This administration has used 9-11 to run rampant and push it's bad policies. That's what they are, bad policies.

Lets just take a look at what has happened in the last 5 years.

Took the economy from one of the best this country has ever had to the worst since the depression. Some economists say worse than the depression.

Took a surplus and made it the largest deficit this country has ever seen.

For the first time, this country attacked another country unprovoked. Neither us or any of our allies were attacked. and yes 9-11 had nothing to do with Iraq.

Oil has reached new heights, and will continue to do so.

Our policies to protect the ecology, have been eroded so far, that it will take decades to fix the damage. All in favor of big business.

The pres has said he was going to unite and not divide, but we have the most hostile congress we have ever seen.

Clinton was taken to task for telling a lie about a blowjob. Now I ask you, wouldn't you lie too, if your wife was gonna find out?

The current pres, lied about wmd, the reason for going to war.
Getting close to 1800 dead americans and who knows how many dead Iraqi's, and yet nothing has been said about it.

That's enough for now. Why don't you turn off Rush and Hannity, and maybe watch your local news and see how everything is in your area.

Question, is this IBM or Lenovo which bought the personal computer division of IBM.

I'm having a hard time coming to grips with buying a Lenovo Thinkpad.

Good for them. Last time I checked, the whole idea of running a business was to make money.

Does everything you talk about have to either be a "democrat thing" or a "republican thing" ? Do you only see things in black and white?

Just another company making a business decision..blame the unions

Exactly, blame the lazy fuckers that want $25 an hour, full benefits, and a nice retirement fund while they work less and less because of their Union. Wheeeeeeeeeeeee

Good fucking times...

Well no matter which stoer you go not all the stuff comes from China, India etc. There isn't a CHOICE. Don't say Americans refuse to buy "Made in America" stuff when that stuff isn't available to buy.

A lot of American will pick QUALITY over cheapness. How many here are wearing cloths( other than socks and underwear ) bought at a Wal-Mart. Not many. Why not, their clothes are cheaper? Because they are also CHEAP. American made stuff is always going to be of better quality than stuff from China or Inda. If given the CHOICE to buy cheap ass stuff made in China or better quality stuff made in the USA for a slightly higher price I believe many would by the "Made in the USA" items.

That may be true, but forcing companies to pay higher wages than what the market offers will not make things any better. In the short term it may seem like a good idea, but long term it almost never is.

Please union make up less than 10% of the work force. In fact in 20 years there will be more people working for Wal-Mart in the US than there are workers in unions. I live in a "right to work state" that means NO UNIONS ALLOWED and yet there are plant closings. So how is that a unions fault? Also is big business hates unions they have THEMSELVES to blame. If they had treat workers right to begin with there never would have been unions. Blaming unions is like blaming the rape victim when the rapist complains about the bad conditions in prison. Um it's HIS fault he's there.

Last time I checked INDIA is not part of the US. What fucking market is in INDIA? They make $1000 a year how are they going to afford a fucking computer?

I'm wondering why people don't seem to realise that if they want shit products for next to nothing, there is a payback on this. It basically screws up any "western" industrialized country in the long term through loss of manufucturing industry/jobs.

There is no such thing as "security" as long as "poor" countries have cheap labor and greedy "weathly" countries like to take advantage of that and enjoy the benefits.

The US is obviously particularly prone to this problem since it is the highest consumer society in the world and been living on credit for the last 25 ish years and without having any trade surplus in that time. Eventually the bubble will burst - that scenario is no place near any economic viability.

Anyway.. I'm getting tied of the Lou Dobbs daily whining! :-) Sure, he has a point, but seems to forget the flip side of the coin. It's called balance...

I meant, market as in job market. They have people with useful skills there that will work for 1/4 of a salary that the same skills would cost in the US.

I suppose the difference is that India generates revenue. - ie.. there is a labor force and they produce a trading surplus. It's swings and roundabouts - as that "profit" filters thru to the population, there is a pro rata increase in the market.

There is little doubt Asia/India are going to be in the major economic power league shortly - they are developing at a pace far in excess of any western countries.

amen brother these people better wake the fuck up

wait a sec... for all this "poverty" these big companies cry about and the cost of things consumers bitch about, what about back in the 50s-70s? I don't recall any "poor" corporations back then and they made it all here on shore with UNION LABOR. People didn't bitch about the costs either. .. well by golly I guess if you are making union wages you can afford to buy at union prices and the companies still make profits and the owners are still rich. Is it that these corpo guys have to have another billion in their pockets? I mean.. who can possibly spend a billion anyhow?

i read if walmart gave every employee a dollar a hour raise. it would raise the cost of goods a half cent. the cheap good speech is bullshit its fucking greed.

Actually you're wrong there. There are plenty of unions in right to work states. I guarantee you that the public school teachers have a union in your state.
A right to work state means you don't HAVE to join the union to work in a place where there is a union.
Whereas in a place like Detroit, you can't work at the auto plants unless you join the U.A.W.

lol
you think that people outside the US are dumber than americans?
you think that just because they hire people from india, that means that quality will be lower?

it is apparant that you have not been outside your state. last time i checked, almost every industrialized country (hell even partially industrialized) had citizens who were much smarter than americans.
indians arent stupid, they will produce quality stuff, and put dumbasses in america out of work.

for those who thinks indians salary is .25$

Right now wages are growing pretty fast in India because there is a high turnover as there are a lot of competition for the skilled labor from global firms all over the world.

The problems is pretty complex when it deals with cheap labor and cheaper goods. One thing in America which pisses me off is CEO's wages have increased 300% over the last 10 years and they cannot even come close to empathizing with the average worker in his or her company when they make so much.

"Executive pay has risen by a factor of 10 in the last 20 years and shows no signs of slowing down. Meanwhile, the wages of rank and file employees are stagnant. Given all the money available, why is it that companies like Wal-Mart, Home Depot and McDonald's pay their employees so little and give them so few benefits? "

http://marshallbrain.com/etq-double.htm

The global economy will do one thing, level the playing field. Level it to the point were L.A. will turn into a 3rd world country, complete with warlords & daily explosions at checkpoints.

People think its a joke, but these people never visited Flint Michigan, where automakers closed up & left a huge hole in society. Or Richmond where phillip morris has declined, now a once beautiful city is a war-zone, the streets are empty at night, & the police enforce a rule banning you from driving down the same street more than once for fear of soliciting prostitution. Or Los Angeles, well, everyones seen the movie spinoffs from that shithole.

And how do we deal with this? Move further into the suburbs, or into the "exclusive" neighborhoods in the city, where police are paid to enforce a no minority & no poor people driving/walking around policy.

You guys see all this profit in your eyes with outsourcing...i just hope we all have enough $ saved up to leave this rising tide of shit, & then i hope theres somewhere left to move.

You're missing the point that the anti-union types try to make. In their minds, unions are single-handedly responsible for 'wage inflation' across the board, and for creating a fat, lazy worker that feels entitled to a better life as a reward for labour... what you and I might call the 'middle class'.

The econo-darwinists dislike the middle class, as it represents an unnatural state in a pure capitalist state. It should really be no surprise that the median income and average income in the US have grown farther and farther apart as unions become less and less influential.

the problem with your shortsighted view is that when companies are more profitable, they create more jobs, pay more in taxes and pump more investment dollars into the economy.

your argument like arguing that robotics hurt the economy. efficiency and increased profitability helps everyone.

this doesn't explain why mid sized japanese cars have ruled the USA for a couple decades now. americans have never made better quality family cars than the japanese.

the bottom line is that people want value for their money and don't give a fuck about the details.

well ill be sure not to buying anything else from them every again.

i dumped dell from my list of purchaseable items.

IBM has been loosing hundreds of million of dollars per year with the PC division, only a matter of time before they sell it.......

If you are working for 5¢ an hour no you are not too smart. quit the hate already. Try being UNBAISED when you read my posts or DO NOT READ THEM.

There is this neat feature GFY has called the IGNORE feature try using it.

Actually I have lived in Illinois, Florida and Tennessee. About 1300 miles difference from the northern most point I've lived to the southern most. I would hazzard a guess most if not ALL countires in Europe are not 1300 miles across. Once agian quit making this an "You hate Euros" thread because were not even talking about Europe you dumbass.

Oh yeah so what you are saying is that you support 9 year old children being used as slave labor? And don't even think to tell me that shit doesn't go on in some of these countries.

They already did to a Chinese corporation.

I said CHINA or INDIA. I never mentioned Japan.

Exactly. The Fruit of the Looms the used to be made in America lasted longer and actually fit. Now they wear out faster and the are rarely the size they say they are. I don't see any price difference. Coincidence? Me thinks not.

Levi Strauss, one of the most iconic all American clothing brands shut its last US manufacturing location in 2003.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in575172.shtml

Maytag might become owned by a Chinese corporation as well........

Chinese firm wants Maytag


For years, American workers have worried about losing their jobs to low-cost workers in China. Now a new trend is emerging that could be nearly as big: Wealthy Chinese companies are coming to the U.S. looking to swallow American companies whole.

Maytag Corp., the maker of such quintessentially American products as Maytag refrigerators, Amana microwaves and Hoover vacuum cleaners, disclosed Monday night a $1.28 billion takeover bid from a group led by Haier America Trading, a unit of China's Haier Group.

If Haier is successful in outbidding an investor group led by New York-based Ripplewood Holdings, the company that is the bedrock of Newton, Iowa, likely would see much of its production move to China.

While Haier is known in the U.S. for the low-cost refrigerators and air conditioners sold at Wal-Mart and Target stores, in Europe and Asia it sells designer-quality appliances as part of a wide range of appliances. It ranks among the top-three makers of refrigerators in the world by sales volume.

Now Haier may be taking on one of the biggest challenges yet: snatching up a big-time U.S. branded-goods giant.

Haier's move to buy Maytag follows Lenovo Group's purchase of IBM's personal computer business, completed in May. And more moves by Chinese industrial giants to buy up Western brands almost certainly are on the way. China National Offshore Oil Co. is considering a bid for U.S. giant Unocal.

Clyde Prestowitz, author of a new book focused on the competitive threat posed to the U.S. by China's economic expansion, said the Haier takeover bid for Maytag is an important symbolic step.

"This is the debut of China into a global brand, a global presence," Prestowitz said. "It also signals that China has moved beyond just being a place for cheap labor. They're going for technology. They're going for brands."

To Martin Sorrell, chief executive of advertising giant WPP Group, these first moves by Chinese companies are the beginning of a major trend to snatch up global brands. Chinese companies have been unsuccessful in building brands from scratch for export around the world, so they are buying them instead.

"They're all looking very carefully at what opportunities there are around the world," Sorrell said. "It's dangerous to underestimate them."

Still, said Sorrell, Chinese companies face a steep learning curve. At first they tried to buy brand recognition by saturating markets with advertising. Now they're beginning to follow a proven model from Western companies, building brands by creating emotional connections with consumers.

Haier is beginning to understand that. The company's English language slogan, "Haier and Higher," sounds like the handiwork of a Western-style marketing agency.

For Newton, the Haier bid comes on the heels of Ripplewood's offer last month, which itself shocked the local citizenry. Newton is an old-style company town that has owed as many as half its jobs to Maytag since the company was founded there in 1893.

Still, in recent years Maytag has foundered. Lackluster product development, high labor costs, management miscues and cutthroat pricing competition in the appliance market have cut into the company's financial results and left it with nearly $1 billion in debt. Maytag lost $9 million last year on $4.7 billion in sales.

$16 vs. $14-a-share offer

It is unclear precisely what Haier would plan to do with Maytag. Haier America Trading LLC teamed with Bain Capital Partners LLC and Blackstone Capital Partners IV LP late Monday night to bid $16 a share for Maytag. The bid is contingent on completion of due diligence on Maytag, a process that could take as long as eight weeks, and on arrangement of debt financing through Merrill Lynch & Co.

The Haier group's bid tops a $14-a-share definitive merger agreement struck in May between Maytag and Ripplewood. That deal values Maytag at $2.1 billion, including the assumption of $975 million in debt.

Officials from Maytag, Ripplewood and Haier did not return phone calls seeking comment.

Ripplewood, which owns or controls as many as 60 U.S. companies, made its name during the 1990s with the turnaround of Japan's biggest failed bank, now called Shinsei Bank. It is known for an ability to restructure and reposition companies, shutting unsuccessful operating units yet retaining workforce and operations in the U.S. that can compete in a global marketplace.

"If Ripplewood is successful, they'll rebuild the business. They'll turn it into a global business that can be competitive. That's a different model than what Haier would do," said a source knowledgeable about Ripplewood's strategy.

Distribution network sought

Haier would be expected to move production of most of Maytag's branded products to China. Company officials have indicated an interest primarily in Maytag's strong distribution and product-repair networks and not necessarily its brands.

That strategy might make sense, said Hal Sirkin, a partner with the Boston Consulting Group, who is knowledgeable about the production and distribution strategy of Chinese companies.

"If your goal is to use your product base, what you'd like is to have your brands and put your brands through Maytag's distribution network," Sirkin said.

Haier could leverage the deal by shipping its own branded appliances through Maytag's distribution channel. Ripplewood, as a financial buyer with no other major consumer products companies in its portfolio, could not.

A source knowledgeable about Ripplewood's strategy conceded that the strategic fit could give Haier an advantage. But the source said Maytag would be better off if the issue were resolved quickly.

"Every day that goes by that Maytag isn't working at fixing Maytag is one more lost day," the source said. "That's not good for Maytag."

- - -

Finding a good fit

Maytag, a maker of home appliances, has a pending acquisition deal from Ripplewood Holdings, but a second bid is on the table. The interested parties are Haier Group, an appliance-maker based in China, and investment companies Bain Capital and Blackstone Group. The latest offer boosted Maytag's stock price.

COMPANY PROFILES

Company name

HAIER GROUP

Headquarters: Qingdao, China

CEO: Zhang Ruimin

Employees: 11,395

2004 sales: $12.3 billion

Some products offered: Air conditioners, freezers, microwave ovens, refrigerators

Company name

MAYTAG

Headquarters: Newton, Iowa

CEO: Ralph F. Hake

Employees: 18,000

2004 sales: $4.72 billion

Some products offered: Washers and dryers, dishwashers, refrigerators, cooking appliances, floor-care products

MAYTAG

Daily closing stock price

Tuesday: $16.06, up 5.5%

Sources: The companies

Chicago Tribune

The problem with this picture is that the company makes more profit, which in turn makes their investors more profit. Most of the investors are very influential people, who in turn lobby the congress, and then the company pays less taxes.

You have a very pollyanna view of the world. There is no corporate greed, companies always do whats best for the worker and the environment.

Yep enron was really looking out for the employees. So was worldcom.
The sad part is, my retired parents who were working stiff all their lives, have to pay horrendous electric bills. You know why? Because even though Enron is out of business, the state of Oregon is on the hook to pay the rest of the contract they signed. Economy 101 for all the little brains. That means they are paying for electricity they aren't getting from Enron, plus the electricity they are getting from another company. Damn we have one fine gov. now. God bless GWB and all his big business buddies.

Who cares about America?

They have been making IBM's thinkpads for a longtime, so if you bought one within the last 6 years of so its a lenovo.

do you really believe this? you think companies only make profits for their investors? I live right next to Microsoft and their success is the cause of 40,000 jobs locally who work directly for microsoft and probably another 50,000-100,000 outside. are you so shortsighted and ignorant with your quasi-communist ideas that you have no idea how that effects an economy? do you have any idea how much money 40,000 high paying jobs pumps into the economy? do you not understand how many other jobs are created outside of microsoft as a result?

here is a newsflash for you. while you are busy ranting about big, evil companies who exploit the people... remember that poor people do not create jobs. poor people do not make a significant contribution to the tax base of the country. poor people just complain about rich people to excuse the fact that they are poor. the USA is home to most of the largest companies on the planet. they were created by vision, great and consisten execution and by phenominal leadership. do you really believe that the average schmuck running a forklift is a necessary component to a great companies success? sorry. its a nice idea... and no doubt, most of them believe it. but that guy can be replaced by a monkey.

your ranting comes straight from Marxist ideas that have been proven wrong time and time again.

haha so fucking funny

i can tell you as acustomer out sourcing sucks example
microsoft had this service where for $35 you could speak to engineer about the microsoft software you had questions about .These guys knew their shit cold and to me was well worth the 35 bucks instead of wasting time researching the answer. they were americans, the last time i called i got a guy from india who was horrible , he didnt understand my question and gave me a answer that nothing to do with the problem. i would never use that service again.

Lets see, I care about my fellow human being, so I am a communist. I have no problem with corp. making profit,. In fact, that's why they exist, to make a profit. If you would actually read my posts, instead of spouting out your new republican drivel, you might see that I have a problem with outsourcing.

As for ideas that american corps pay their fair share of taxes, you need to do a little more reading and research on that one. The average US corp. pays 3.5% taxes. Yep that's paying their fair share.Not sure what tax bracket you're in,( you probably just don't pay taxes) mine is just a tad higher than 3.5%.

If they want to be an US corp. and get the perks and tax breaks that this country gives them,then they should have the common courtesy of hiring US workers.

I await your well thought out conservative propaganda.

i said that rich people pay MORE in taxes. in actual dollar amounts, their contributions are greater. i never used words like "fair" as you imply by your repeated use of the word in your reply - i was merely stating a fact.... not giving a "i have a dream" speach as you are.

since you dont seem to understand... we have a free market. that means that companies are free to hire anyone they choose and act anyway they want within the law. there must be some reason the US economy is the most successful on the planet. i am not saying anything is perfect.... but the US, before any other country is going to have most of the 20 first companies valued in the trillions.

if you don't like the rules of the game... then focus your attention on trying to change the rules of the game. don't give us all this romantic BS about how things should be in the perfect world you and Alec Baldwin are striving to create. I am sure children will never cry in Baldwinia... sounds great!! hahaha.

and you know what? the game of economics is no longer about a free market. its about a global economy and global competition and competing with other global companies on a global playing field. giving other countries a competitive edge over US companies with your antiquated Marxist ideas (i.e. not subjecting them to the same restraints you would wish on US companies) is not going to create jobs either. its going to cripple the economy and certainly deprive everyone of the chance at living in your perfect world full of teddy bears, hugs and roses.

Not the first and won't be the last. What will this mean to the economy in the years to come is anyone's guess. Is there any way to stop it? Not really.

pointless

yes some people get much higher salaries. You know the funny part? I was discussing 30min ago if a salary of $250-350 would be satisfying for a new group of employees in india. The reply was yes.