The agreement between FSC and DOJ is here

50..........

Ok just got off the phone with them and rejoined as corporate..

we get covered for 3 months only, right?

If you read through my first post about the deal that was made with DOJ, a special master will be holding the list of FSC members, and DOJ can't see the list, but they will be asking if who they are interested in investigating is (sorta like Go Fish! )



I hate to say it Gene, but with the patriot act, they dont have to ask him shit. They can just take the list. If he tries to hold the list back, they take it anyway, and put his ass in jail. The patriot act can be used to override the judge that set this up.

pat, thanks for the kind words. i didn't know too much about patents when i first started FightThePatent.com almost 2 years ago.. but i read alot and asked alot of questions and tried my best to bring awareness (the wounds from arrows and mud slinging have almost healed ). I jump into the fun topics like 2257, .XXX, fighting against CP, patent abuse, P2P, DRM etc... ask me about sports, and i would have nothing much to say.


fight the watercooler!

FightThisPatent you tell Tom to get his butt over here to this board and anwser questions. Its cool you are passing along info but this is serious shit going on which has questions that need t be asked by us to someone higher up in thd FSC and not by you...

yes, a little bit of breathing room for those who don't have your 2257 compliance in place.

i have talked with several programs, and they have been putting in 12+ hours fort he last 2 weeks iin doing documentation and getting things in order.

after the 3 month period, game is back on according to the agreement.


Fight the 911 on 2257!

How ironic if the FSC gets sued by someone who thinks they are covered by their Membership in the FSC, but turn out to not be covered due to miscommunication by the FSC's overworked/uninformed staffers.

ADG Webmaster

Never happen. Talk about a way to bring in the non porn reinforcements. Like this could happen without it getting national media attention and the resulting sentiment swing in our favor. The DOJ would never do it this way, your outta your mind.

After putting in long hours for the last week, tom was heading home when i caught him in the car. he is aware of all the confusion, but i can sense some frustration with him for people who are complaining about why they should pay to be FSC members, when the word "free" is in their name, or why an injunction doesn't cover them if they aren't members, etc, etc,etc..

I agree, its not my role to pass on info.... the last 2 hours could have been better spent working on my biz...but that has never stopped me from triying to clarify misconceptions and issues and help webmasters out. I am plugged into what is going on behind the scenes, so i help where i can.


Fight the Messenger!

I thought there was something about the DOJ being concerned that the FSC would aggressively market to get more members so there was some part of the agreement that required that the FSC abstain from marketing until after Sat 2pm. Tom would not likely be able to come speak on this board if that were the case.

I heard the same... but since i don't work for FSC, i can market and promote for people to join FSC all i want


Fight the gag!

Me too FTP!

Hey Dopeman posted this in another thread. Its really good and deserving of a repost (the quote allegedly comes from a member of FSC Colorado:

Point is if the info you gave out was wrong and people base there decison on here say are you gona cover there legal fees if something you said was wrong?

No disrecpect but with issues like this i want to hear the info from the horses mouth........

They agreed to give the FSC a TRO because they want to preoccupy all of us with 2257 over the next 3 - 4 months while .xxx gets little exposure and little opposition. We already have the FSC tied up with 2257 who is going to try to stop .xxx from happening ?

So in 4 months .xxx goes through and the DOJ goes to court to defend the new 2257, what did they lose... nothing? what did they gain? .xxx passing with no opposition.

If anyone thinks it is a coincidence that 2257 and .xxx is happening at the same time then you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. They have been trying to get .xxx for 6 years. It happens right after the DOJ comes down with imposible 2257 regs? Come on... think think.

[sarcastic response deleted]

no, but then again, anyone would have a hard time showing ANYTHING that i have ever said or posted to webmasters was wrong.



Fight the thankyouverymuch!

FSC will be focusing on .XXX


Fight the Theories of Conspiracy!

THe Downing st memo didnt get media attention and you think this would if it did it would be some christian right wing wacko applauding the doj for their efforts to save our children from the claws of these villians.

You know what really sucks.

There are 100x more Priest who are pedos then there are webmasters who promote CP.

The DOJ should get a fucking C.L.U.E and go harrass the church.

yes but not with 1/2 the resources i am sure. 2257 is going to take away from it no doubt.

True.

If you are not compliant and are not a member of FSC by 2pm tommorow
you are taking a risk. This is really not that hard to understand. With the advanced warning you should have been putting together something, and calling a lawyer . If you got behind , you have been given a second chance , and some more time to get shit in order. If you do not have a lawyer or cannot afford one , read the law and follow the rules the best you can. Don't bust balls on someone who is trying to help you for FREE.

Can you clarify what we do about URLs we register say... between this Monday and the next few months?

Thanks!

Just where in the actual agreement do you find that there are 3 months where you are exempt from prosecution if a member of the fsc?

I've read it, and it says THIRTY days from the time the list is handed over to the Special Master..which is this comming wednesday!

I was at their office signing up colleagues from out of town and I asked about the DBAs and she said only to put one because their system cannot handle more than one. What she emphasized is that we must keep our proof of membership.

that's not what it says. it says:

the hearing is now Aug 1. so that means at least until Sept 1.

I have a feeling they're going to cut a deal with the DOJ before any hearing. who knows though. i also predicted the DOJ would launch inspections while they were in court at the TRO hearing

I don't want to be a downer here.. and I do support those fighting for our rights... but damn if they don't have the manpower to take memberships, or explain clearly what membership benefits are for the different options offered, then how the hell can they take on the DOJ effectively?

Glad to see you agree with me on this

so much to worry and wonder about with all this 2257 and .xxx

because the smart lawyers that are handling the legal issues with 2257 aren't the ones that are answering the phones and taking in memberships.

so it's an apples and oranges issue you brought up




Fight the and would you like to super size your membership?!

All of the domains/URLs that you own.

Along with DBAs, this list is going to be given to the Special Master who will hold on to the list.

DOJ has their own list of websites and businesses that they would like to visit.

so like playing Go Fish, DOJ can ask them, is xyz.com on the list? And if they aren't, then that websites gets a check mark. If they are on the special masters list, then the domain gets crossed off.

It appears that FSC membership system wasn't geared to handle these situations, since there is only 1 field for URL.

email your list of domains/URLs to [email protected] and they will painstakingly create the list by hand that is to be submitted to DOJ.

Be sure to include info about your company of what you entered when signing up, so they have a way to look you up.


Fight the List!

Well I guess the point is organizational and planning skills. If an organization can't plan for memberships, when people are promoting that others become members at every turn, then you have to wonder who's responsible for the lack of communication and planning here

Just a fyi, I e-mailed them all my domains and they said I have to call it in, so I think they prefer it if you give them all your sites and DBA via phone.

no argument here on things that could have been handled better from the website to handling of memberships to clarifications about what level to register.

given the amount of work that has to be done at FSC, and no time to pause to contemplate what should have been done, i give them a break on the points you brought up, and would rather see them focus on getting all members registered and all domains/uRL/DBA on the final list, so that everyone is included... then to take the time to go back in time and try to think what would have been a better way.


Fight the Hindsight!

which brings me to my question.

what good is the FSC if its filled with a bunch of non compliant law breakers?

I have seen people claim they are simply paying the $300 to not have "to touch their sites" - which means they are not becoming compliant.

Do you REALLY think the DOJ is gonna cross out names on their list that they want to go after? Go fish? This is no game, this is serious. You guys pushing for this shit, seem like youre having fun.

YOu blatantly make it sound like if they come after you, they will call the FSC, verify you are on the member list then cross you off.

The FSC as of right now is housing and protecting NON COMPLIANT WEBMASTERS. I am sure that is what the DOJ is after.

someone responded to you via email to tell you to call it in?

That doesn't sound right at all. From the horror stories i have read so far about company names being mispelled from over the phone, spelling out domains over the phone is going to be so prone to errors.

I was told the way to submit the domain/url/dba is via email.

If this is the case, you'll probably have to ask them what country they are in to know what's the right phonetic alphabet to use to spell things out:

http://montgomery.cas.muohio.edu/mey...cAlphabets.htm




Fight the Sierra Hotel India Tango!

how will DOJ know that a website is not compliant unless they do inspection?

they could look at it and say you didn't have a 2257 statement on your page.. but any website that doesn't have that at this point in time (even copying someone else's page) is absolutely ridiculous.

the whole point of this "list" is to hold off inspections until it gets to court.

so while there is some levity in my answers, the situation is of course very serious (i have been on this 2257 issue for a year now in trying to bring awareness).

those people that are not 2257 compliant and think they can hide behind an FSC membership to protect them, will be rudely awakened with a knock on the door. natural selection will take its place.


Fight the Darwinians!

Well, I think it had to do with the fact that I also purchased an "individual" webmaster plan for $300 until I read this post:

--------------------------------
I just got off the phone with Jeffrey Douglas, FSC Board chair and attorney. He said, if you joined FSC as an individual, your websites are not covered. You have to sign up for membership as a company, and pay according to your annual sales volume, the dues for which can be found here:

<http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/...types=Corporate>

What you want to make sure is that we have all you D/B/As and URLs. They can be compiled and emailed to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>.

If you have any questions, please send them my way and I'll try to get answers, but please understand that I'm overwhelmed with calls and interviews today and probably through the weekend. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Tom Hymes
FSC Communications Director
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
__________________

so then I panicked because I thought my sites were not covered, but now I guess you have clarified that they are; so I probably should e-mail them again... I guess they thought that I wanted to change my plan to "corporate" so that my sites could be covered, even though they are covered under "individual webmaster". It is rather worrisome that even the employees are confused about which plan covers what....

Not true, I know several FSC members who are 100% compliant.

I wont go into this, but you know as well as i do, the wording is strict, and if you are not compliant, you are not compliant, beating around the bush means nothing here. Not gonna argue about what is and what is not breaking the law.

the FSC is filled with them, and if you thyink i am wrong i am not. I have been following this, and have seen the comments about not having to "touch sites" and simply pay $300.

My guess is, all the DOJ needs is a clause: "If one of your members is breaking the law, you will be forced to turn over info"

simple as that.

i dont really see the purpose of "the list" anyway.

From where i stand, now big money, lobbyists and politics are running this show. Wheels will be greased, and names will be released. We heard the promises through acacia and history will repeat itself.

and ive seen more than one claim to not be.

your point?

you signed up for the right one, just email them your list of domains/url/dba

the people manning the phones on the toll free number are not employees of FSC, its a phone bank, so they aren't too knowledgeable about the operations other than the script that they use.

i can document the confusion:


from this page:
http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/application.php

if you check the corporate button and then the order by mail, the chart shows revenue ranges, but the phrase is "Internet Services". A webmaster would not think themselves to be "internet services", and would then choose Inividual/webmaster option.

if you check the corporate button and then the order online one, the corporate memberships only say "internet"

and then below it is individual webmasters, where it specifically says "webmasters".

if you click individual, then the order online, it shows the corporate and individual options.

i have fired off this thread to some FSC folks.


Fight the Options!

yes, and FSC is a lobbyist taking over for webmasters right now.. but the problem is those that aren't in compliant are thinking FSC is a crutch for them. FSC is a stick to beat down bad 2257 regulations, but if websites aren't compliant, they will get beaten down by the law.

as far as the acacia thing goes, bad analogy. the alleged "matrix" list would have allegedly been illegally used by allegedly acacia (california has lots of laws about data and databases).

now, this Speciall Master is appointed by the court, but paid for by FSC. Could DOJ use the patriot act and other legal means to just grab the whole list as many have suggested? maybe, who knows, but why are people so worried about that anyways? 2257 compliance requires you to state your business address. If they come to a website that they want to investigate, they should EASILY and CLEARLY find your business address. So i fail to see what's the conspiracy theory here that if DOJ does grab the list, what good will it do?

if they want a list of porn sites, then can go to hundreds of link lists, tgp, top sites, dmoz, etc sites to get that.....for free.


Fight the Hiding!

I sent them this thread & asked them to chime in for clarification.

Hymes here, responding to a request for clarification. Sorry I haven't come sooner, but Brandon called me last night while I was on the road, and I asked him to do it for me. I think he has, but let me reiterate, because I know the FSC website is not as clear as it should be.

Ues this page as a guideline, whether you apply by this method or not:

http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/online_app.htm

If you are an individual, that is to say, talent or someone who works for a company but is not a webmaster and owns no sites but still wants to be a FSC member, it's $50/yr, and you sign up under the Individual Memberships category. If you sign up under this one and you own adult websites, those URLs will NOT be included on the Master List, only you as an individual will be, and you must re-up under one of the following categories to have your websites or DBAs included.

If you are a webmaster, that is to say, you own, run or maintain your own adult websites, you can either use the $300 webmaster category under Individual Memberships OR the Corporate category that reflects your annual sales volume. EITHER ONE WILL DO. If you have already signed up for the individual $300 webmaster category, and you realize that you could have signed up for less under the corporate, do not worry, the difference will be refunded to you (unless you want to donate it to the cause!), but please do not sign up again at this time; instead, send an email to [email protected] explaining the mix-up, and someone will contact you to fix the problem when the dust has settled and our immediate work signing people up and compiling an accurate Master List is done.

If there is not enough room for you to list all your DBAs or URLs on the application, compile them into an email, with enough information so that we know who you signed up as, and email it to [email protected]. We will make sure you have applied to be a member, and the DBAs and URLs will be included on the Master List. This part can be done after today's 2:00 p.m. deadline ONLY if you have already become a member. Please take care of membership first! But in the interest of time and the avalanche of work we have to accomplish before Wednesday, please send the email with DBAs and URLs by the end of day tomorrow, Monday. I won't specify time zone, since we aren't imposing a strict cut-off. I do not know if DBAs or URLs can be added after the Master List has been compiled and sent to the Special Master, so please don't risk not having all your names on the list. EMAIL THEM IN BY TOMORROW.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to email m at [email protected]. I've been answering them and forwarding them on for the last several days, and will be here throughout the day today if you need me. Well, maybe not the whole day, but at least until well after the deadline has past. I am in L.A.

Thanks everyone, and I hope this helps to ease some of the confusion.

Tom
[email protected]

Oops. I meant to say, get us all DBAs and URLs by Monday, which is not tomorrow. Tomorrow is Sunday, unless you are in Australia! Sorry.

Tom

The whole theory is baseless. If anyone thinks the DOJ can't find out who you are then #1, your kidding yourself. #2, you are obviously in violation of the 2257 regs.

Who would the DOJ go after someone on the list, or someone off of the list. Someone on the list, would be that person + the FSC backing them, someone off of the list is *most likely* a broke ass or not too smart with no one backing them. Who do you think they want to test the new law on.