--would Chuck Liddell have been able to hang vs. Royce Gracie?--

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  • FelixFlow
    Confirmed User
    • Nov 2004
    • 2779
    #1

    --would Chuck Liddell have been able to hang vs. Royce Gracie?--

    how would chuck liddell have done vs. royce gracie, assuming both in thier prime?


    would his grappling skills have been up to par to get a possible submission win against royce ?


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    • dunefield
      www.barely18movies.com
      • Feb 2003
      • 10920
      #2
      the gracies aren't all that anymore since fighters now train both on the floor and standup...

      10 years ago royce gracie showed everyone that bjj was the way to go but now fighters have moved on and know how to combat against it... not saying bjj is shit but fighters have wised up...

        Comment

        • modF
          Confirmed User
          • Aug 2002
          • 1888
          #3
          You can't really be super specalized anymore, you really need to have a grasp on grapling, fighting, as well as submissions.

          I vote for Liddell.

          I do things
          skype:themodF

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            • Anthony
              Keyboard Warrior
              • Feb 2001
              • 9653
              #4
              I would say Royce, but that is because I'm a Gracie Nutrider. LOL

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                • dig420
                  Confirmed User
                  • May 2001
                  • 9240
                  #5
                  no Liddell wouldn't get a sub against Royce, not then and not today. He'd beat him by standing up and trying to stay on his feet. If Royce coudn't get the takedown it's very bad news for him.

                  Royce isn't done, he's still able to fight, and he still has an excellent chance of submitting anyone as long as he can get them down.

                    Comment

                    • dig420
                      Confirmed User
                      • May 2001
                      • 9240
                      #6
                      You don't see Royce fighting much anymore because the money isn't right (by his standards). He wants to get paid and paid big to step in the ring.

                      All the Gracies are this way, you have to pay a LOT extra to get them to fight because their name is the best marketing tool there is in MMA, and they know it.

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                        • NTSS
                          Confirmed User
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 5688
                          #7
                          Royce is a bad mofo...But I think Chuck would kick his ass because he's one tough SOB
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                            • WarChild
                              Let slip the dogs of war.
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 17263
                              #8
                              Originally posted by dig420
                              You don't see Royce fighting much anymore because the money isn't right (by his standards). He wants to get paid and paid big to step in the ring.

                              All the Gracies are this way, you have to pay a LOT extra to get them to fight because their name is the best marketing tool there is in MMA, and they know it.
                              On the same hand, you never see any truly great strikers fight either. Why? Because a big card professional boxing match pays a lot more and carries less risk. This is especially true of the very early UFC fights when it was a tournament. What was the initial prize, $25K or $50K? You had to win three fights for that money too. Something to think about.
                              .

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                                • Anthony
                                  Keyboard Warrior
                                  • Feb 2001
                                  • 9653
                                  #9
                                  Chuck is a purple belt in BJJ, btw, and has great takedown defense.

                                    Comment

                                    • xclusive
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Apr 2004
                                      • 35218
                                      #10
                                      Liddell would get my vote but it really could go either way

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                                        • dig420
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • May 2001
                                          • 9240
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by WarChild
                                          On the same hand, you never see any truly great strikers fight either. Why? Because a big card professional boxing match pays a lot more and carries less risk. This is especially true of the very early UFC fights when it was a tournament. What was the initial prize, $25K or $50K? You had to win three fights for that money too. Something to think about.
                                          True, but the top strikers in MMA are pretty damn vicious these days.. the level of athleticism is rising all the time.

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                                            • dig420
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • May 2001
                                              • 9240
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by Anthony
                                              Chuck is a purple belt in BJJ, btw, and has great takedown defense.
                                              You know as well as I do how a purple does against Royce on the ground. Not to say Chuck is going to be helpless on the ground, but if it goes down there it's Royce's fight and I'm choosing him.

                                              Royce, on the other hand, has NO chance standing up. Overall in that fight I'm picking Chuck, but if Royce can get him down he can definitely win. Guys are really, REALLY good with their takedown defense nowadays.

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                                                • WarChild
                                                  Let slip the dogs of war.
                                                  • Jan 2003
                                                  • 17263
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by dig420
                                                  True, but the top strikers in MMA are pretty damn vicious these days.. the level of athleticism is rising all the time.
                                                  Yes, these days fighters are more vicious in general. Like I said, more so in the original UFCs.
                                                  .

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                                                    • cyber_ninja
                                                      Twerk That Ass
                                                      • Jul 2001
                                                      • 2197
                                                      #14
                                                      chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes


                                                      thats why the gracies always want to get rid of the time limits on fights

                                                        Comment

                                                        • dig420
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • May 2001
                                                          • 9240
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by cyber_ninja
                                                          chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes
                                                          Royce is a problem for ANYBODY on the ground. It's not so easy to just stand up, especially if Royce has any kind of control position, side mount, mount, even half-guard.

                                                          and they want to get rid of time limits because they feel it artificially affects the true outcome of the fight. If they had their way the bell would ring and you'd go until someone was done, no time outs.
                                                          Last edited by dig420; 06-17-2005, 09:30 PM.

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                                                            • WarChild
                                                              Let slip the dogs of war.
                                                              • Jan 2003
                                                              • 17263
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by dig420
                                                              If they had their way the bell would ring and you'd go until someone was done, no time outs.
                                                              We've seen that, it's boring and it doesn't make for great entertainment. Looks more like a queer love fest with two men cuddling for an hour.
                                                              .

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Anthony
                                                                  Keyboard Warrior
                                                                  • Feb 2001
                                                                  • 9653
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by dig420
                                                                  You know as well as I do how a purple does against Royce on the ground. Not to say Chuck is going to be helpless on the ground, but if it goes down there it's Royce's fight and I'm choosing him.

                                                                  Royce, on the other hand, has NO chance standing up. Overall in that fight I'm picking Chuck, but if Royce can get him down he can definitely win. Guys are really, REALLY good with their takedown defense nowadays.

                                                                  It's not because he's a purple belt he would have a chance. A purple belt has a working knowledge of takedowns (Which BJJ is weak in), and ground techniques.

                                                                  Jeremy Horn, who is known for his awesome grappling skills would be a good precursor to what a fight between Royce and Liddel would be.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Anthony
                                                                      Keyboard Warrior
                                                                      • Feb 2001
                                                                      • 9653
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by cyber_ninja
                                                                      chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes


                                                                      thats why the gracies always want to get rid of the time limits on fights
                                                                      Real world fights don't have time limits, refs, or tapout.

                                                                      Food for thought.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • dig420
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • May 2001
                                                                          • 9240
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by WarChild
                                                                          We've seen that, it's boring and it doesn't make for great entertainment. Looks more like a queer love fest with two men cuddling for an hour.
                                                                          yes, it's not so entertaining to watch, I don't disagree. That's why I LOVE to train BJJ, not too excited about watching it. I hate to box, but I LOVE to go to the fights.

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                                                                            • Anthony
                                                                              Keyboard Warrior
                                                                              • Feb 2001
                                                                              • 9653
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by WarChild
                                                                              We've seen that, it's boring and it doesn't make for great entertainment. Looks more like a queer love fest with two men cuddling for an hour.

                                                                              I used to think so back in the early UFC's.

                                                                              I put it side by side to watching Golf. After I started playing, I got more interested in watching. I knew how it felt to miss a shot, to go into the shit, etc.

                                                                              Same thing with grappling.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • dunefield
                                                                                  www.barely18movies.com
                                                                                  • Feb 2003
                                                                                  • 10920
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by cyber_ninja
                                                                                  chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes


                                                                                  thats why the gracies always want to get rid of the time limits on fights
                                                                                  royce got rorted that way against sakuraba...

                                                                                  if you ask me renzo is way better than royce... he's a pretty decent standup fighter

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                                                                                    • dig420
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • May 2001
                                                                                      • 9240
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by dunefield
                                                                                      royce got rorted that way against sakuraba...

                                                                                      if you ask me renzo is way better than royce... he's a pretty decent standup fighter
                                                                                      Renzo is shot and has been for quite a while, and imho wasn't in Royce's league on the ground.

                                                                                      As far as Saku, Royce quit with a broken calf. What's the shame in that?

                                                                                      Guys like you always try to make it sound like a professional life-long fighter got punked or something by losing a match. At least he got in the fucking ring, and he's been doing it his whole life. Roy Jones didn't suddenly lose all his honor because he finally got KTFO.

                                                                                      Royce fought Saku and he came up short. End of story.

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                                                                                        • cyber_ninja
                                                                                          Twerk That Ass
                                                                                          • Jul 2001
                                                                                          • 2197
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by Anthony
                                                                                          Real world fights don't have time limits, refs, or tapout.

                                                                                          Food for thought.
                                                                                          were talking about MMA not real world fights.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • HAPPYPEEKERS
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Feb 2004
                                                                                              • 7566
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Royce Hands Down
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                                                                                                • TheJimmy
                                                                                                  ICQ- five seven 0 2 5 5 0
                                                                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                                                                  • 10747
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  I'd have to give my vote for Chuck since he's a local...




                                                                                                  but really, who knows, it takes one good chin shot to end a fight with a 'stand up guy' and one good take down to wipe out another...sometimes with two highly skilled fighters it can really go either way...nothing is 100%, well cept for the obvious shit ;)

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                                                                                                    • dunefield
                                                                                                      www.barely18movies.com
                                                                                                      • Feb 2003
                                                                                                      • 10920
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by dig420
                                                                                                      Renzo is shot and has been for quite a while, and imho wasn't in Royce's league on the ground.

                                                                                                      As far as Saku, Royce quit with a broken calf. What's the shame in that?

                                                                                                      Guys like you always try to make it sound like a professional life-long fighter got punked or something by losing a match. At least he got in the fucking ring, and he's been doing it his whole life. Roy Jones didn't suddenly lose all his honor because he finally got KTFO.

                                                                                                      Royce fought Saku and he came up short. End of story.
                                                                                                      i think renzo is more better package... royce has basically no standup skills at all and royce definately can throw back hits... in today's mma i don't think royce could keep up with many of the fighters because his lack of standup skills... but hey i'm not saying he's a shit fighter...

                                                                                                      sakuraba totally dominated that match... gracie did basically nothing against him...

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                                                                                                        • Vitasoy
                                                                                                          GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                                                                          • Oct 2003
                                                                                                          • 58202
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          If they both faught now.. Chuck would win. It's hard to compare back then, cause not that many people cross trained in the past.


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                                                                                                            • Vitasoy
                                                                                                              GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                                                                              • 58202
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by dunefield
                                                                                                              sakuraba totally dominated that match... gracie did basically nothing against him...
                                                                                                              Not only that.. Sak gave his back to him at wil, and royce couldn't do anything.

                                                                                                              Royce didn't quit but his corner threw in the towel if I remember correctly... and what cause the injury was saks constant leg kicks


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                                                                                                                • Anthony
                                                                                                                  Keyboard Warrior
                                                                                                                  • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                  • 9653
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Vitasoy
                                                                                                                  If they both faught now.. Chuck would win. It's hard to compare back then, cause not that many people cross trained in the past.
                                                                                                                  Case in point, that's what UFC 54 is all about. Chuck is fighting the only man that has submitted him, Jeremy Horn. Which was when Chuck was new, and now has over 7 years of BJJ under his belt.

                                                                                                                  Can't wait!

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                                                                                                                    • dunefield
                                                                                                                      www.barely18movies.com
                                                                                                                      • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                      • 10920
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Vitasoy
                                                                                                                      Not only that.. Sak gave his back to him at wil, and royce couldn't do anything.

                                                                                                                      Royce didn't quit but his corner threw in the towel if I remember correctly... and what cause the injury was saks constant leg kicks
                                                                                                                      amen....

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                                                                                                                        • xNetworx
                                                                                                                          So Fucking What
                                                                                                                          • Jan 2004
                                                                                                                          • 14445
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Chuck in his prime vs. Royce in his prime.... I say Chuck by KO

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                                                                                                                            • AVPS Zack
                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                              • May 2005
                                                                                                                              • 113
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Don't forget Chuck would also have about 20lbs on Royce.

                                                                                                                              Rounds w/a decision = Chuck
                                                                                                                              No time limit/no rules = Royce
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                                                                                                                                • WebTitan
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                                  • 5114
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  i respect the gracies, but, he was king back in the day when no one else could ground fight. EVERY one successful now can hold thier own on the ground, so thier gracie agvantage would be gone in this day and age.

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                                                                                                                                    • animal mother
                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2005
                                                                                                                                      • 274
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      royce would get massacred, end of story.

                                                                                                                                      chuck outweighs him by 25 pounds and exactly how is royce going to get chuck on the ground? he's not exactly known for his takedowns. his only chance would be to pull guard and chuck's just standing up if he does that. people tend to forget that chuck, while making his living with his fists, was a Div. 1 wrestler.

                                                                                                                                      mma is a whole different animal than it was when royce was subbing the clueless and the overrated. not to take anything away from his legacy because he's done a ton for the sport but it's insulting to today's cross-trained fighters to suggest a small, one-dimensional fighter could hang with possibly the best lhw on the planet.
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                                                                                                                                        • High Plains Drifter
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2005
                                                                                                                                          • 2341
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          AM, you speak like Royce hasn't fought since 1995. It was only a year ago that he dominated Yoshi in impressive fashion. The same Yoshi that submitted Mark Hunt and took V. Silva to a decision in his last fight.

                                                                                                                                          In a fight between Royce and Liddell, tomorrow, Royce would come forward with his leg outstretched, wait for Liddell to throw, tie him up and pull closed guard. He's done it on hundreds of strikers in his life. I'm sure that Liddell would find a way to win, since he knows sub defense and he could wait for his spot, but Royce is getting up there in years.

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                                                                                                                                            • animal mother
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Jun 2005
                                                                                                                                              • 274
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by skinnywussy
                                                                                                                                              AM, you speak like Royce hasn't fought since 1995. It was only a year ago that he dominated Yoshi in impressive fashion. The same Yoshi that submitted Mark Hunt and took V. Silva to a decision in his last fight.

                                                                                                                                              In a fight between Royce and Liddell, tomorrow, Royce would come forward with his leg outstretched, wait for Liddell to throw, tie him up and pull closed guard. He's done it on hundreds of strikers in his life. I'm sure that Liddell would find a way to win, since he knows sub defense and he could wait for his spot, but Royce is getting up there in years.
                                                                                                                                              i'm dissecting this post for sarcasm but damned if i can find any.

                                                                                                                                              royce has 4 fights since the turn of the century--a draw with takada, a loss to 39, a sub over akebono and a draw with yoshida (questinable i'll admit).

                                                                                                                                              the "yoshida subbed hunt and lost a close one to wandy" argument not only falls apart due to transitive limitations, but it fails to take into account the fact that hunt was brand gnub to mma and that yosh is a far better matchup for royce than chuck is.

                                                                                                                                              you're too smart for this so i'm assuming you were dicking around and in that case consider me pwned. fucker.
                                                                                                                                              www.upstandingfuckingcitizens.com

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                                                                                                                                                • High Plains Drifter
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2005
                                                                                                                                                  • 2341
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Maybe this picture will help jog your memory. The same memory that thinks Royce took a draw with Takada. Royce gets no respect because he isn't interested in proving himself against the current elite, he's already done that. He needs bigger challenges to prove the effectivenss of bjj, like take on an opponent that outweighs him by 300 lbs (and submit him). Just because Royce hasn't submitted wandy yet, doesn't mean he can't. He's beyond that in his career.



                                                                                                                                                  I don't seem to remember Wandy raining down GnP from the mount on Yoshi in either of the fights they had. Maybe he was injured or something.

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                                                                                                                                                    • AVPS Zack
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • May 2005
                                                                                                                                                      • 113
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Didn't Royce win a decision over Takada in the first round of the 2000GP? Royce dominated Yoshida in their 2nd (1st MMA) fight. He was a victim of his own special rules (if it goes the time limit its a draw.)

                                                                                                                                                      Yoshida/Royce are not the same type of fighter at all. Yoshida has gone toe to toe with Wandy twice and has a chin of concrete.

                                                                                                                                                      Royce is over 40 I believe since Royler is younger and turning 40 this year.
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                                                                                                                                                        • High Plains Drifter
                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2005
                                                                                                                                                          • 2341
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by AVPS Zack
                                                                                                                                                          Didn't Royce win a decision over Takada in the first round of the 2000GP? Royce dominated Yoshida in their 2nd (1st MMA) fight. He was a victim of his own special rules (if it goes the time limit its a draw.)

                                                                                                                                                          Yoshida/Royce are not the same type of fighter at all. Yoshida has gone toe to toe with Wandy twice and has a chin of concrete.

                                                                                                                                                          Royce is over 40 I believe since Royler is younger and turning 40 this year.
                                                                                                                                                          Yoshi did go toe to toe with Silva on both occasions, but thats the first time I've heard him refered to with a good chin. Maybe he does have an excellent chin, but Silva didn't really catch him with anything that would have tested it. Neither did Hunt.

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