Visa And No More Recurrings After April 2003??? - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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SodomHussein

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#1

Visa And No More Recurrings After April 2003???

11-25-2002, 04:40 AM

Everyone that has a pay site should have a look at the new "verified by visa" bullshit.

According to several docs I have seen on the web from banks, "Merchants cannot authenticate recurring transactions (except perhaps on the first occurrence)"

Apparently, for everyone taking visa transactions on the web it is going to be mandatory by April 2003.

See this pdf for more info http://www.mcul.org/mcul/cu/cards/me...edbyvisaqa.pdf

We're all fucked!!!!! What good is a sign-up if you can't recurr it. Looks like we're all going to be forced to do away with trials and go straight to a high priced monthly membership fee. This means much less sales.
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justsexxx

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#2

11-25-2002, 04:46 AM

You are refring to this:

If a cardholder does not participate in Verified by Visa or if a cardholder does not register
at the Visa web site, and a participating Verified by Visa merchant processes a transaction,
does the issuer have chargeback rights (to charge the item back to the merchant)? Does the
"0" liability rule still apply (where issuers cannot make cardholders liable for unauthorized
transactions)?
A. Until April 2003, the cardholder and issuer may charge this transaction back to the merchant.
However, beginning April 2003, since the merchant attempted to authenticate the cardholder, the
issuer has no chargeback rights, but the cardholder has $0 liability. This means that the issuer
needs to give credit to the cardholder for the unauthorized use of the card, but can't charge it back
to the merchant. The issuer is liable for the transaction amount.

?

Andre

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Krome

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#3

11-25-2002, 04:50 AM

People have been talking about Visa Verified for ages. In my opinion everyone will just drop the trials and your monthly take home will probably remain the same as more people buy the full membership.
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quiet

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#4

11-25-2002, 04:51 AM

hmm.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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SodomHussein

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#5

11-25-2002, 04:55 AM

Dear justsexxx,

See the last Q and A on the bottom of the PDF. It has it right there in black and white.
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jeroman

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#6

11-25-2002, 05:11 AM

It's not that shitty!

Only people to lazy and those who forgot they have a membership with a certain site will fall out of the billing.
This will affect us all.

Website owners that has really bad stuff and can't charge
for a trial that recurrs will get a shitload of charge backs.
People paying 3 or 4 bucks doesn't care so much but when
they have to pay 20-40 for shit they will.

I guess both Ibill and CCbill will setup a mailing system
that will e-mail all customers a few days before their membership
ends and a simple link to them where they can rejoin.

Guess it's time to offer one year memberships or lifetime...
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jeroman

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#7

11-25-2002, 05:14 AM

By the way!
The last answer says those transactions will not be verified
the same way but it will still be able to charge the cards
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12clicks

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#8

11-25-2002, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Krome
People have been talking about Visa Verified for ages. In my opinion everyone will just drop the trials and your monthly take home will probably remain the same as more people buy the full membership.

really?
The paysite operators are going to pay you 40.00 for a 29.99 signup that doesn't reccur? really?

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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Krome

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#9

11-25-2002, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by 12clicks

really?
The paysite operators are going to pay you 40.00 for a 29.99 signup that doesn't reccur? really?

Sorry I did look at it from a egotistic perspective...my top end will increase just like it has done thanks to Visa last month.
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jas1552

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#10

11-25-2002, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by jeroman
By the way!
The last answer says those transactions will not be verified
the same way but it will still be able to charge the cards

I don't have a pdf reader since i last formatted c: and don't feel like downloading one now so this may sound like a dumb question.
Does this mean the only change will be less chargebacks?
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12clicks

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#11

11-25-2002, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by Krome

Sorry I did look at it from a egotistic perspective...my top end will increase just like it has done thanks to Visa last month.

No, you basically spoke out of your ass the first time I quoted you and are now covering up you're lack of thought in the first statement.

Also, don't think dialers will bail you out. US customers will NEVER use them like they would a credit card.

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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Krome

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#12

11-25-2002, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by 12clicks

No, you basically spoke out of your ass the first time I quoted you and are now covering up you're lack of thought in the first statement.

Also, don't think dialers will bail you out. US customers will NEVER use them like they would a credit card.

Most of my sign up are from European countries.....you do not understand MY business so fuck off....
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Mutt

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#13

11-25-2002, 06:14 AM

this has been rumored for a looooooooooooong time.

if it happens, say goodbye to probably half the industry. we're talking $10 maybe $15 per signup payouts.

nobody knows how surfers will react. how many of them will sign up again is anybody's guess. I think it will have to be a great site for most people to voluntarily sign up again. ALSSCANS has been operating this way since the beginning, non-recurring memberships.

question is how many people in this industry making $25,000 a year would hang around if they were making $12,500?

I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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quiet

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#14

11-25-2002, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by Mutt
ALSSCANS has been operating this way since the beginning, non-recurring memberships.

i agree. i also know others that do very well with 3 month and 6 month memberships...

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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funkmaster

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#15

11-25-2002, 06:23 AM

... well, we gotta charge 5$ per minute than ...
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12clicks

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#16

11-25-2002, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by Krome

Most of my sign up are from European countries.....you do not understand MY business so fuck off....

Stop pretending you know something I don't.
interesting when called on the carpet about posting non-sense you back it up with "fuck off"

YOU have no understanding of the topic of this thread. period.

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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Mutt

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#17

11-25-2002, 06:52 AM

[
We're all fucked!!!!! What good is a sign-up if you can't recurr it. Looks like we're all going to be forced to do away with trials and go straight to a high priced monthly membership fee. This means much less sales. [/B][/QUOTE]

this would be interesting. the strategy here would be 'would it be better to try to get a fairly big monthly membership fee of 34.95 knowing it is going to be VERY hard to get another billing out of them' OR charge a much lower fee like 9.95-14.95 a month hoping that people will be much more likely to voluntarily recur.

maybe a mix of both, once they're a member, instant deep loyalty discount, like half or a third of the original price.

or like quiet suggest, 3 month, 6 month and yearly memberships.

has anybody taken the time to read that PDF file? is that what it basically says - no more recurring online billing?

I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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RottenPug

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#18

11-25-2002, 06:56 AM

Anyone know if this is just the adultbiz ? Would be interesting to see how companys like AOL would start billing. Also if AOL can rebill why couldn't a suit be brought against Visa?

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Krome

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#19

11-25-2002, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by 12clicks

Stop pretending you know something I don't.
interesting when called on the carpet about posting non-sense you back it up with "fuck off"

YOU have no understanding of the topic of this thread. period.

Well I think I do know something....I know enough to be able to finance 3 full time photographers and run, what I believe to be a pretty successful outfit. I stated my opinion which I believe to be correct. I did not mention anything about dialers. Now why dont you run along little man and cancel someones account for 'cheating'....
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#20

11-25-2002, 07:23 AM

Anyone trumpetting the "death of on-line porn", for any reason, have no idea how evolution works.

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12clicks

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#21

11-25-2002, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Krome

Well I think I do know something....I know enough to be able to finance 3 full time photographers and run, what I believe to be a pretty successful outfit.

wow, all that? you must be like king of london.
how that has any bearing on your silly Visa statement, I have no idea.

Originally posted by Krome
I stated my opinion which I believe to be correct.

I and I believe it to be incorrect. back up this opinion:

Originally posted by Krome
In my opinion everyone will just drop the trials and your monthly take home will probably remain the same as more people buy the full membership.

Originally posted by Krome
I did not mention anything about dialers.

you should have, it might have made a little sense then.

Originally posted by Krome
Now why dont you run along little man and cancel someones account for 'cheating'....

oh, there's plenty of time for that. right now I'm making sure that bullshit isn't given out on GFY.

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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FlyingIguana

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#22

11-25-2002, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by RottenPug
Anyone know if this is just the adultbiz ? Would be interesting to see how companys like AOL would start billing. Also if AOL can rebill why couldn't a suit be brought against Visa?

this is what i'd like to know. visa would lose a ton of business dropping recurring altogether. a lot of my bills recur monthly with my visa. take that out and i switch everything to amex.
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Krome

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#23

11-25-2002, 08:01 AM

In my opinion, which obviously does not matter in your eyes, the moment the surfer realises they can join a site and not get fucked on rebill for ages all the better. The chargebacks will be lower as people will only get what they paid for. People will also join mulitple sites as they will be able to budget their money better and trust that they are not being ripped off.
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FlyingIguana

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#24

11-25-2002, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Krome
In my opinion, which obviously does not matter in your eyes, the moment the surfer realises they can join a site and not get fucked on rebill for ages all the better. The chargebacks will be lower as people will only get what they paid for. People will also join mulitple sites as they will be able to budget their money better and trust that they are not being ripped off.

if credit cards would switch to a pin system there wouldn't be chargebacks. credit cards are still stuck in the 70's.
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#25

11-25-2002, 08:27 AM
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cherrylula

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#26

11-25-2002, 08:27 AM

how many mainstream companies have recurring billing on crap? no doubt lots of them. Does this mean AOL is going to change too? Gimme a break.

And in my experience, if you offer a non recurring membership at 150% of what the recurring membership is, 50% of members choose non-recurring.

I always stick to my theory about men and sex, and as most of you should know, men HATE commitment. I use the comparison of would you rather get a killer deal on an auto-rebilling membership to a strip club you go to every week or two, or would you just rather pay your cover at the door?

guys just don't like commitment.... if people offered more non-recurring memberships (on a large scale) my instinct tells me it would bring in more $$$, if done right.
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#27

11-25-2002, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by FlyingIguana

if credit cards would switch to a pin system there wouldn't be chargebacks. credit cards are still stuck in the 70's.

Really? And so when I create a bogus visa join page selling a dvd player for $50 and you signup to it, it can be a nice copy of Verfied by Visa join page but without the httpS:// and it will post me ALL your info including your PIN. What you gonna do then?

There will ALWAYS be chargebacks as there will always be scammers. Credit cards are the easiest things to steal.

Sammy
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FlyingIguana

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#28

11-25-2002, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Sambuka

Really? And so when I create a bogus visa join page selling a dvd player for $50 and you signup to it, it can be a nice copy of Verfied by Visa join page but without the httpS:// and it will post me ALL your info including your PIN. What you gonna do then?

There will ALWAYS be chargebacks as there will always be scammers. Credit cards are the easiest things to steal.

Sammy

use software to control transactions...

put it on the net and people will do just what you said. there are options for credit card companies if they put their heads together. at the end of the day all this bullshit just hurts online sales.
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#29

11-25-2002, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by fiveyes
Anyone trumpetting the "death of on-line porn", for any reason, have no idea how evolution works.

Amen to that, reverend
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Carrie

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#30

11-25-2002, 08:37 AM

look at the new "verified by visa" bullshit.

That pdf is dated March 2002. 3/02 != new.

Anyone have anything more up to date, preferably from Visa itself rather than a credit union?
Hell, I haven't even seen anything from Visa itself regarding the 3rd-party merchant fees.
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49thParallel

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#31

11-25-2002, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by 12clicks

oh, there's plenty of time for that. right now I'm making sure that bullshit isn't given out on GFY.

Easy solution for that...we'll miss you 12 Clicks...
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smileygirls

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#32

11-25-2002, 08:53 AM

Is there any information from the top processors on this?

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playa

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#33

11-25-2002, 09:00 AM

visa will only hurt themselves,,

you think porn memberships are the only reacurring product?

shit the cc companies are the biggest scammers with their fucking insurance, buyers club, vacations or whatever programs they telemarket all the time
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Hooper

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#34

11-25-2002, 09:41 AM

People who dont understand merchant accounts should not start threads talking about them.

Visa Verified means more security for everybody involved in the entire process and fewer chargebacks.

It does not mean and end to chargebacks or recurring billing... or anything STUPID AND SILLY like that.

Call your billco rep or merchant bank before you believe any of the crap written here.

Even that PDF file says it correctly, just that nobody is READING it correctly.

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12clicks

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#35

11-25-2002, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Krome
In my opinion, which obviously does not matter in your eyes, the moment the surfer realises they can join a site and not get fucked on rebill for ages all the better. The chargebacks will be lower as people will only get what they paid for. People will also join mulitple sites as they will be able to budget their money better and trust that they are not being ripped off.

some of this is true.
I disagree with your idea that its "all the better" or your other statement of "your monthly take home will probably remain the same as more people buy the full membership."

the surfer may spend more, the paysites may make more but if recurring billing goes away, so too will the TGPers and other small timers.

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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#36

11-25-2002, 09:52 AM

I hate to upset the fear mongers but we have been doing non recurring memberships for 6 years; successfully.
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Krome

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#37

11-25-2002, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by 12clicks

some of this is true.
I disagree with your idea that its "all the better" or your other statement of "your monthly take home will probably remain the same as more people buy the full membership."

the surfer may spend more, the paysites may make more but if recurring billing goes away, so too will the TGPers and other small timers.

I believe and alwasy will do that if people stop trying to fuck the surfer and give them what they want we will all make more money. If the surfer trusts the Visa Verified system to enable them to stop rebilling with ease then cool. Site should be good enough to make the surfer WANT to be on rebill.
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Hooper

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#38

11-25-2002, 10:03 AM

HEY!!!!

*waving*

Visa Verified does not stop rebilling!

If you really believe that then you should just give up now.

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Kimmykim

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#39

11-25-2002, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Hooper
HEY!!!!

*waving*

Visa Verified does not stop rebilling!

If you really believe that then you should just give up now.

Shhhhhhhh ;)
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12clicks

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#40

11-25-2002, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Probono
I hate to upset the fear mongers but we have been doing non recurring memberships for 6 years; successfully.

and how much do you pay the webmasters in your affiliate program again?

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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12clicks

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#41

11-25-2002, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Hooper
HEY!!!!

*waving*

Visa Verified does not stop rebilling!

If you really believe that then you should just give up now.

not sure who you're waving at.

Visa Verified *enables* rebilling.

Just wait and see the surfers lining up to get their card enabled to be dinged every month.
They'll be beating them off with a stick?

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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Probono

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#42

11-25-2002, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by 12clicks

and how much do you pay the webmasters in your affiliate program again?

We have never had an affiliate program.
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12clicks

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#43

11-25-2002, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Probono

We have never had an affiliate program.

eeeeeeeexactly.

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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#44

11-25-2002, 11:17 AM

The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling

You guys crack me up. Please, by all means email me with your URL's and I will keep buying up anyone that want's to get out while the getting is good. [email protected]

Tim

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#45

11-25-2002, 11:19 AM

guess its over, I just sold everything for $1.75 (12 Installments)

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12clicks

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#46

11-25-2002, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by hardcorehosting
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling

hey, that's my line you prick.

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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Mr.Fiction

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#47

11-25-2002, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by RottenPug
Anyone know if this is just the adultbiz ? Would be interesting to see how companys like AOL would start billing. Also if AOL can rebill why couldn't a suit be brought against Visa?

Visa won't piss of the wrong people. They are smarter than that. They have no problem pissing off the adult industry because no one in the adult industry will fight them and the public sees the adult industry as the enemy anyways.

Lambs to the slaughter.

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erotictrance

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#48

11-25-2002, 01:45 PM

One thing is for sure ...

Visa is spending a fortune advertising Visa Verified with those Emmit Smith commercials ....

So it probably merits serious attention ...

Afterall ... they only gave webmasters about a month's notice on the fees ...

They could do the same with this as well ...

erotictrance
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MultiBill

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#49

11-25-2002, 10:14 PM

Hey Kimmy

Ssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Hooper

Sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

If the boys and gals on the boards keep scaring the crap out of everyone else, then my efforts in getting ahead of the pack are all but done ;-)

**********

But seriously gang, Visa verified wont work with rebills. But rebills will still work, just without the chargeback protection offered by the Visa verified system.

For me, I am going to offer two types of memberships.

1) A recurring membership without Visa Verified
2) A once only fee WITH Visa Verified. And cause my exposure to chargeback is dramatically reduced with Visa Verified, I am going to make a sweeeeeeeeeet deal for those customers - Muahahahahaha

**********

Hey Kimmy, dont forget its my fist shout for that Cafe' Martini at Alladins

And Hooper, see you at that club again

Only 40 more sleeps till Evil Dan hits Vegas again - Wahoooooooooo

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TheFLY

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#50

11-25-2002, 10:28 PM

i'm suprised Krome hasn't threatened to kill 12clicks already...
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