Extreme Paychecks Us2257 Announcment

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  • kernelpanic
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Jan 2005
    • 2961
    #51
    I'm with DonovanPhillips on this one. While it might not seem like that bad of an idea now, giving out IDs, even with blacked out addresses is going to not only cause a streak of stalking and other problems, but will significantly reduce the number of new girls willing to model. As if starring in porn weren't a deterrent enough, the distribution of model IDs removes any hope of anonymity that a model may have - instead of only having to worry about family and friends knowing about their activities, now their public info will be out in the open for everyone to see. Sure, many girls will still do it, but you're going to lose a lot of prospective talent for future shoots.


    Maybe a solution to this would be to allow each girl to have some input as to how her information can be distributed, so that you won't scare away all prospective talent. Shooting a model and not being able to give it to affiliates is surely better than not shooting at all.
    Last edited by kernelpanic; 06-06-2005, 06:11 PM.


    ZangoCash - Turn Your Traffic Into Ca$h.
    $.40 Per Install - No Tier

      Comment

      • mrthumbs
        salad tossing sig guy
        • Apr 2002
        • 11702
        #52
        wheres woj/

          Comment

          • Damian_Maxcash
            So Fucking Banned
            • Oct 2002
            • 12745
            #53
            Originally posted by Extreme John
            Might have lost me Damian been a long day, we wont be enforcing what?
            OK... Will 2257 compliance be compulsory for all your affiliates?

            Ive seen some that have said they will not comply and be a sort of "conscientious objector".

            Others dont need to bother with 2257 at this stage becuse they dont live and host in the US.

            Will you require them to be compliant anyway?

              Comment

              • Donny
                As you wish...
                • May 2002
                • 13754
                #54
                Originally posted by Extreme John
                O.k, let's take a second to go through the REAL steps of what a possible "Stalker Fan" might do. Becuuse it's not as simple as signing up as an affiliate and freely grabbing ID's, how about setting up Domains that affiliate programs verify? Thats an added step , along with that step comes having some typoe of ability to place some kind of html on that site that seems as if it could in fact generate traffic and sales. Not sure who exactly you deal with in regards to Affiliate programs but we Verify every affiliate prior to them being able to grab anything, so again no easy task.

                As far as all those sites that can be started, thats very true, maybe the entire Adult Industry should sit on it's hands and prey and not pre-act or think or do anything else in regards to 2257 at all. And than maybe just maybe if we did that NONE of those sites would ever open. Reality shows that you dont need a DL# or anything else to find someone and stalk them people do it everyday and have been doing it for years.

                As for short term thinking, please do me a favor save that shit for someone else, I can assure you that you have no idea what any Affiliate Program has gone through in the thought process of this entire thing, and certainly no idea about my thought process. As for not shooting content for us, thats fine, didnt know who you were before and managed to live for 6 years without your content already.
                This message board alone proves the maturity of many "legitimate" affiliates. Even if they pass your standards and become "legitimate" affiliates I'm sure there will be times model privacy is violated. Real names are posted on GFY from time to time by "legitimate" affiliates.

                And what happens if one of these "legitimate" affiliates becomes upset over something? Or if they decide to "turn to God" a la Busty-Amateurs.com . Think some of those freaks may start harassing models? I do.

                Stop thinking only with your pocketbook. You can do just as well providing affiliates with fresh hosted galleries, or allowing them to build their own and host for them, as Steve Lightspeed has mentioned.

                Protect your fuckin' models, man. They're the ones people pay to see. Without them you die.

                  Comment

                  • 3piece chicken Dinner
                    Confirmed User
                    • Jan 2005
                    • 1065
                    #55
                    Originally posted by lagwagon
                    Its not the money its the law

                    Nah , It's the money. With your content there is no reason that you couldn't take a stance such as lightspeed. You run you biz how you see fit, but don't act as if you have no choices.

                    as for your U.S. gallery guys, Do realize that your U.S. gallery submitters in a whole lot of cases are going to be required to pass along these model id's to EVERY TGP that they submit to that is compliant or needs to comply. You could be passing your id's out to THOUSANDS of people that are not even an affiliate of yours...

                    And before the flames, justification and speculation begin. Remember who you are compromising your models info for. Look at this board, what % of your webmasters are going to do the right thing with the info after a few days of trying to comply??

                    While I don't like it , and really don't agree with it. A company that specilizes in HARDCORE and Extreme content are between a rock and a hardplace. Softcore or Solo Model , Glam sites have an alternative if they are willing to put the proper work in.

                    Many have speculated the dangers, to paysites giving out this info and I think it is even riskier for people with very identifiable girls........but do as you wish it's your business. Just remember, you can't take the info back.
                    "We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."

                      Comment

                      • lagwagon
                        Confirmed User
                        • Jul 2001
                        • 8464
                        #56
                        Originally posted by Extreme John
                        O.k, let's take a second to go through the REAL steps of what a possible "Stalker Fan" might do. Becuuse it's not as simple as signing up as an affiliate and freely grabbing ID's, how about setting up Domains that affiliate programs verify? Thats an added step , along with that step comes having some typoe of ability to place some kind of html on that site that seems as if it could in fact generate traffic and sales. Not sure who exactly you deal with in regards to Affiliate programs but we Verify every affiliate prior to them being able to grab anything, so again no easy task.

                        As far as all those sites that can be started, thats very true, maybe the entire Adult Industry should sit on it's hands and prey and not pre-act or think or do anything else in regards to 2257 at all. And than maybe just maybe if we did that NONE of those sites would ever open. Reality shows that you dont need a DL# or anything else to find someone and stalk them people do it everyday and have been doing it for years.

                        As for short term thinking, please do me a favor save that shit for someone else, I can assure you that you have no idea what any Affiliate Program has gone through in the thought process of this entire thing, and certainly no idea about my thought process. As for not shooting content for us, thats fine, didnt know who you were before and managed to live for 6 years without your content already.
                        I agree were going to have to take more steps to stay legal. Verify the affiliates before handing out the 2257 docs or take more steps towards jail.

                        FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

                          Comment

                          • Extreme John
                            Confirmed User
                            • Apr 2002
                            • 1475
                            #57
                            Originally posted by kernelpanic
                            I'm with DonovanPhillips on this one. While it might not seem like that bad of an idea now, giving out IDs, even with blacked out addresses is going to not only cause a streak of stalking and other problems, but will significantly reduce the number of new girls willing to model. As if starring in porn weren't a deterrent enough, the distribution of model IDs removes any hope of anonymity that a model may have - instead of only having to worry about family and friends knowing about their activities, now their public info will be out in the open for everyone to see. Sure, many girls will still do it, but you're going to lose a lot of prospective talent for future shoots.


                            Maybe a solution to this would be to allow each girl to have some input as to how her information can be distributed, so that you won't scare away all prospective talent. Shooting a model and not being able to give it to affiliates is surely better than not shooting at all.
                            Let me just add which I havent yet, I never said I agreed that the government made a great decision by making this the law, but bottom line it is the law, and as an Affiliate Program I do personally feel that the lively hood of our affiliates is important. Therefore we will aid our affiliates in complying with the law's set forth by the US Government. Doesnt mean I have to like it, but it also doesnt mean I should push my affiliates into the wind and wish them luck either.
                            Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                            51299342

                              Comment

                              • lagwagon
                                Confirmed User
                                • Jul 2001
                                • 8464
                                #58
                                Originally posted by 3piece chicken Dinner
                                Nah , It's the money. With your content there is no reason that you couldn't take a stance such as lightspeed. You run you biz how you see fit, but don't act as if you have no choices.
                                Have you seen our content? I was just talking to lightspeed about this. I will give you a temp pass into FTVGirls so you can see that we are not soft. Dont get me wrong this whole thing is fucked up, I dont want to give them out but we have to.

                                icq 167179530

                                FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

                                  Comment

                                  • boneprone
                                    Hall Of Fame
                                    • Jan 2001
                                    • 34415
                                    #59
                                    Fuck it.. Give the secondary producers id with the name blacked out too.

                                    If they want the rest they can buy it from the sponsor or get it when or if they ever really need it, like in a legal situation.

                                    Im telling you, most of us secondary guys just want some kind of evidence of effort to be shown in your part with providing us with some DOB documentation for us to have on hand to show we made an effort, and an assurance that YOU have the proper documentation on hand for us if and only if legal situations arise.
                                    Last edited by boneprone; 06-06-2005, 06:18 PM.

                                    Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
                                    Bow to the Power - Still BP4L
                                    http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame
                                    Learn about it kids.

                                      Comment

                                      • mrthumbs
                                        salad tossing sig guy
                                        • Apr 2002
                                        • 11702
                                        #60
                                        Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                        This message board alone proves the maturity of many "legitimate" affiliates. Even if they pass your standards and become "legitimate" affiliates I'm sure there will be times model privacy is violated. Real names are posted on GFY from time to time by "legitimate" affiliates.

                                        And what happens if one of these "legitimate" affiliates becomes upset over something? Or if they decide to "turn to God" a la Busty-Amateurs.com . Think some of those freaks may start harassing models? I do.

                                        Stop thinking only with your pocketbook. You can do just as well providing affiliates with fresh hosted galleries, or allowing them to build their own and host for them, as Steve Lightspeed has mentioned.

                                        Protect your fuckin' models, man. They're the ones people pay to see. Without them you die.

                                        Throughout all this i fully agree with your point of view on this situation.

                                        Handing out Id's (partially censored or not) WILL eventually turn inot big problems.

                                        "And what happens if one of these "legitimate" affiliates becomes upset over something? Or if they decide to "turn to God" a la Busty-Amateurs.com . Think some of those freaks may start harassing models? I do."

                                        This WILL happen.. 100%.

                                          Comment

                                          • Extreme John
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Apr 2002
                                            • 1475
                                            #61
                                            Originally posted by damian2001
                                            OK... Will 2257 compliance be compulsory for all your affiliates?

                                            Ive seen some that have said they will not comply and be a sort of "conscientious objector".

                                            Others dont need to bother with 2257 at this stage becuse they dont live and host in the US.

                                            Will you require them to be compliant anyway?
                                            The ones that say they just wont comply are playing an amazing game of chance, we will not play that game of chance and wouldnt assume that our affiliates should either.

                                            Those that dont want to comply and want to be renegade, or fly under the radar or want to prey for an injunction, personally for me I cant live like that not to mention I have a responsability to the employee's of EP and their famalies as well as the affiliates that earn money using EP.

                                            As for the Affiliates out of the country they will be governed by the laws of their country and until otherwise will be handled as so.
                                            Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                                            51299342

                                              Comment

                                              • mrthumbs
                                                salad tossing sig guy
                                                • Apr 2002
                                                • 11702
                                                #62
                                                An id with everything blacked out (name for exmaple.. which is most crucial to protect) is merely a picture with a DOB .. might as well add a DOB to the content.. same effect.

                                                You have to hand out full ID scans or nothing.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Donny
                                                    As you wish...
                                                    • May 2002
                                                    • 13754
                                                    #63
                                                    Originally posted by Extreme John
                                                    Let me just add which I havent yet, I never said I agreed that the government made a great decision by making this the law, but bottom line it is the law, and as an Affiliate Program I do personally feel that the lively hood of our affiliates is important. Therefore we will aid our affiliates in complying with the law's set forth by the US Government. Doesnt mean I have to like it, but it also doesnt mean I should push my affiliates into the wind and wish them luck either.

                                                    Nah, you're just pushin' your models into the wind. Short term thinking. What will your affiliates promote when no models will work for you anymore?

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Extreme John
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Apr 2002
                                                        • 1475
                                                        #64
                                                        Originally posted by lagwagon
                                                        Have you seen our content? I was just talking to lightspeed about this. I will give you a temp pass into FTVGirls so you can see that we are not soft. Dont get me wrong this whole thing is fucked up, I dont want to give them out but we have to.

                                                        icq 167179530

                                                        Perfectly said.
                                                        Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                                                        51299342

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Donny
                                                            As you wish...
                                                            • May 2002
                                                            • 13754
                                                            #65
                                                            Originally posted by boneprone
                                                            Fuck it.. Give the secondary producers id with the name blacked out too.

                                                            If they want the rest they can buy it from the sponsor or get it when or if they ever really need it, like in a legal situation.

                                                            Im telling you, most of us secondary guys just want some kind of evidence of effort to be shown in your part with providing us with some DOB documentation for us to have on hand to show we made an effort, and an assurance that YOU have the proper documentation on hand for us if and only if legal situations arise.
                                                            Unfortunately, what you just suggested DOES NOT comply with the new regs.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • kernelpanic
                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                • Jan 2005
                                                                • 2961
                                                                #66
                                                                Originally posted by Extreme John
                                                                Let me just add which I havent yet, I never said I agreed that the government made a great decision by making this the law, but bottom line it is the law, and as an Affiliate Program I do personally feel that the lively hood of our affiliates is important. Therefore we will aid our affiliates in complying with the law's set forth by the US Government. Doesnt mean I have to like it, but it also doesnt mean I should push my affiliates into the wind and wish them luck either.
                                                                Well, I don't think anyone in this industry likes what has transpired, and as a secondary producer myself, I certainly wouldn't want to be abandoned by sponsors, but I can't see open disclosure as being good in the long run.

                                                                Finding talent is hard enough. With disclosure more open than in the past, you will, as a primary producer, draw from a smaller pool of models, especially if something bad happens.

                                                                Wouldn't a better option be to find ways to live with the new laws, rather than bending to them? For example, instead of disclosing model IDs, couldn't you offer the hosted galleries as other sponsors are planning to? This would strike a nice middle ground.

                                                                Wouldn't it also be feasable to give models the option of keeping their info limited to the primary only, or to allow full disclosure under the new 2257?

                                                                If models see this as becoming too hostile, then you're going to lose a lot of talent, regardless about how many expert opinions feel it is the best thing to do.


                                                                Just my


                                                                ZangoCash - Turn Your Traffic Into Ca$h.
                                                                $.40 Per Install - No Tier

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Donny
                                                                    As you wish...
                                                                    • May 2002
                                                                    • 13754
                                                                    #67
                                                                    FREE


                                                                    HOSTED


                                                                    GALLERIES



                                                                    ^^^ solves the problem. 'Nuff said.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • boneprone
                                                                        Hall Of Fame
                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                        • 34415
                                                                        #68
                                                                        Here's another approach to addressing the secondary producer affialate problem.

                                                                        When making your free hosted galleries, have in addition to what ever thumbs you normally have on your gallereis 1 or 2 softcore thumbs on the gallery..

                                                                        That way a person like me, when I want to promote your gallerey on my thumb sites, I can use that softcore image to promote your gallery with rather than the Hardcore one..

                                                                        Once the surfer leaves my site and goes to your FHG, then my hands are clean of it..

                                                                        It just sucks that sites like mine need "thumbs" to promote or push traffic from my site to your FHG. Im not about to switch back to "text" based style TGP's and MGPs.
                                                                        Last edited by boneprone; 06-06-2005, 06:23 PM.

                                                                        Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
                                                                        Bow to the Power - Still BP4L
                                                                        http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame
                                                                        Learn about it kids.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Donny
                                                                            As you wish...
                                                                            • May 2002
                                                                            • 13754
                                                                            #69
                                                                            Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                            FREE


                                                                            HOSTED


                                                                            GALLERIES



                                                                            ^^^ solves the problem. 'Nuff said.
                                                                            If that's not good enough for affiliates, give them space on YOUR server on YOUR domain. Problem solved AGAIN. The gallery can go live once you've approved it.

                                                                            Again, protect your models. Both of these solutions does that.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • lagwagon
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                                • 8464
                                                                                #70
                                                                                Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                Nah, you're just pushin' your models into the wind. Short term thinking. What will your affiliates promote when no models will work for you anymore?
                                                                                You still shoot content for people right? Well your going to have to supply the ids for the owner of that paysite and his content. Then he is going to have to give that id and contracts to his affiliates. Your not on the frontline but you are still the middle man. I wish this whole thing would disappear.

                                                                                FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Donny
                                                                                    As you wish...
                                                                                    • May 2002
                                                                                    • 13754
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    Originally posted by boneprone
                                                                                    Here's another approach to addressing the secondary producer affialate problem.

                                                                                    When making your free hosted galleries, have in addition to what ever thumbs you normally have on your gallereis 1 or 2 softcore thumbs on the gallery..

                                                                                    That way a person like me, when I want to promote your gallerey on my thumb sites, I can use that softcore image to promote your gallery with rather than the Hardcore one..

                                                                                    Once the surfer leaves my site and goes to your FHG, then my hands are clean of it..
                                                                                    That works too.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Donny
                                                                                        As you wish...
                                                                                        • May 2002
                                                                                        • 13754
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        Originally posted by lagwagon
                                                                                        You still shoot content for people right? Well your going to have to supply the ids for the owner of that paysite and his content. Then he is going to have to give that id and contracts to his affiliates. Your not on the frontline but you are still the middle man. I wish this whole thing would disappear.
                                                                                        I won't sell to anyone giving out model IDs to their affiliates.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Extreme John
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Apr 2002
                                                                                            • 1475
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                            Nah, you're just pushin' your models into the wind. Short term thinking. What will your affiliates promote when no models will work for you anymore?

                                                                                            Better yet since you took out a huge % of people on GFY and affiliates alike in the post above in regards to not knowing who your sending stuff to. Well here's a question for you, do you personally know and hang out with everyone you sell content to that you furnish that info to or do you just not give your model info out to the people that purchased it because they could be some sick freak making a content purchase that wants to stalk some chick?

                                                                                            Again if people want to stalk people they are going to do it regardless, and again I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT THE GOVERNMENTS PLAN OR LAWS WERE A BRIGHT IDEA. I have simply made a decision after proper discussion with my attorneys, paperwork review, and an overall look at the situation that I feel will benefit my current affiliates in the long run. Doesnt mean that Donavan has to like it or anyone else for that matter. As for Models, we have been working with models for 6+ years and have always treated our models more than fair, we ensure they clearly understand our Model Release forms and the risks involved with signing it, at that time the models can make an adult decision to either film or not film, thats their god given choice and we give them that choice.
                                                                                            Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                                                                                            51299342

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • lagwagon
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                                                • 8464
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                Originally posted by boneprone
                                                                                                Here's another approach to addressing the secondary producer affialate problem.

                                                                                                When making your free hosted galleries, have in addition to what ever thumbs you normally have on your gallereis 1 or 2 softcore thumbs on the gallery..

                                                                                                That way a person like me, when I want to promote your gallerey on my thumb sites, I can use that softcore image to promote your gallery with rather than the Hardcore one..

                                                                                                Once the surfer leaves my site and goes to your FHG, then my hands are clean of it..

                                                                                                It just sucks that sites like mine need "thumbs" to promote or push traffic from my site to your FHG. Im not about to switch back to "text" based style TGP's and MGPs.
                                                                                                Good solution. Even if the thumb is not provided you will still be cropping them.

                                                                                                FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • mrthumbs
                                                                                                    salad tossing sig guy
                                                                                                    • Apr 2002
                                                                                                    • 11702
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                                    If that's not good enough for affiliates, give them space on YOUR server on YOUR domain. Problem solved AGAIN. The gallery can go live once you've approved it.

                                                                                                    Again, protect your models. Both of these solutions does that.
                                                                                                    Exactly. Its the only way to get around this.

                                                                                                    Im not a content producer but giving out id's to webmasters is just as irresponsible as handing out your processors admin password so they can
                                                                                                    check if everything is legit. You know you cant do that.

                                                                                                    Life of models is involved here. If you want to think just business: no model wants their ids released to a bunch of retards like us so that will have serious
                                                                                                    consequences for production after a few months and the first incidents.

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • lagwagon
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Jul 2001
                                                                                                        • 8464
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                                        I won't sell to anyone giving out model IDs to their affiliates.
                                                                                                        ok i wont give out the ids, shoot me some content.

                                                                                                        FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • Snake Doctor
                                                                                                            I'm Lenny2 Bitch
                                                                                                            • Mar 2001
                                                                                                            • 13449
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                                            Nah, you're just pushin' your models into the wind. Short term thinking. What will your affiliates promote when no models will work for you anymore?
                                                                                                            Why will he need models when he has no more affiliate traffic and $$ to pay the models with??

                                                                                                            What came first the chicken or the egg??

                                                                                                            Your damned if you do, damned if you don't, you can't give him shit for his decision any more than you can give Lightspeed shit for their decision......they're both trying to make the best of a fucked up situation.
                                                                                                            sig too big

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • Donny
                                                                                                                As you wish...
                                                                                                                • May 2002
                                                                                                                • 13754
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                Originally posted by Extreme John
                                                                                                                Better yet since you took out a huge % of people on GFY and affiliates alike in the post above in regards to not knowing who your sending stuff to. Well here's a question for you, do you personally know and hang out with everyone you sell content to that you furnish that info to or do you just not give your model info out to the people that purchased it because they could be some sick freak making a content purchase that wants to stalk some chick?

                                                                                                                Again if people want to stalk people they are going to do it regardless, and again I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT THE GOVERNMENTS PLAN OR LAWS WERE A BRIGHT IDEA. I have simply made a decision after proper discussion with my attorneys, paperwork review, and an overall look at the situation that I feel will benefit my current affiliates in the long run. Doesnt mean that Donavan has to like it or anyone else for that matter. As for Models, we have been working with models for 6+ years and have always treated our models more than fair, we ensure they clearly understand our Model Release forms and the risks involved with signing it, at that time the models can make an adult decision to either film or not film, thats their god given choice and we give them that choice.

                                                                                                                I sell exclusive content only to a VERY SHORT LIST of very respected businesses. I can count the number of companies I actively sell content to on one hand. I'll drop those who give out model IDs to affiliates.

                                                                                                                Post #69 gives you two solutions.

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • mrthumbs
                                                                                                                    salad tossing sig guy
                                                                                                                    • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                    • 11702
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Extreme John
                                                                                                                    Well here's a question for you, do you personally know and hang out with everyone you sell content to that you furnish that info to or do you just not give your model info out to the people that purchased it because they could be some sick freak making a content purchase that wants to stalk some chick?
                                                                                                                    not handing out id's to secundary producers should be a part of the contract that every content producer has with its clients. Or am i missing something here?

                                                                                                                    Unless the client provides the models and they are ok with it.

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • boneprone
                                                                                                                        Hall Of Fame
                                                                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                        • 34415
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        I have a feeling that we will all work through this as most of us are divided on this issue when it comes to secondary (affilates).

                                                                                                                        I also feel that no sponsor I currently work with will be left behind on this as I originally had worried about..

                                                                                                                        I will be dealing with 2 kinds of sponsors.

                                                                                                                        1. the one's that give me or make some kind of effort to give me some form of DOB documention in order to continue to promote them on my sites.

                                                                                                                        2. the ones that continue to make FHG's for me to continue promoting, but include one or two softcore images on the gallerey as well for me to use to promote that gallery.

                                                                                                                        Naturally $$ talks and the sponsors that allwow me to use Hardcore thumbs to promote their sites off mine will do much much better.. But the second option will also suffice in our $ making relationship.
                                                                                                                        Last edited by boneprone; 06-06-2005, 06:29 PM.

                                                                                                                        Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
                                                                                                                        Bow to the Power - Still BP4L
                                                                                                                        http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame
                                                                                                                        Learn about it kids.

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • kernelpanic
                                                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                            • Jan 2005
                                                                                                                            • 2961
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Lenny2
                                                                                                                            Your damned if you do, damned if you don't, you can't give him shit for his decision any more than you can give Lightspeed shit for their decision......they're both trying to make the best of a fucked up situation.
                                                                                                                            So give affiliates free hosted galleries


                                                                                                                            ZangoCash - Turn Your Traffic Into Ca$h.
                                                                                                                            $.40 Per Install - No Tier

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • Extreme John
                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                • 1475
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by kernelpanic
                                                                                                                                Well, I don't think anyone in this industry likes what has transpired, and as a secondary producer myself, I certainly wouldn't want to be abandoned by sponsors, but I can't see open disclosure as being good in the long run.

                                                                                                                                Finding talent is hard enough. With disclosure more open than in the past, you will, as a primary producer, draw from a smaller pool of models, especially if something bad happens.

                                                                                                                                Wouldn't a better option be to find ways to live with the new laws, rather than bending to them? For example, instead of disclosing model IDs, couldn't you offer the hosted galleries as other sponsors are planning to? This would strike a nice middle ground.

                                                                                                                                Wouldn't it also be feasable to give models the option of keeping their info limited to the primary only, or to allow full disclosure under the new 2257?

                                                                                                                                If models see this as becoming too hostile, then you're going to lose a lot of talent, regardless about how many expert opinions feel it is the best thing to do.


                                                                                                                                Just my
                                                                                                                                I def. appreciate your input without a doubt, as for bending to the rules, this is business and many business's adjust to their surroundings, the Adult Industry is no longer under any radar and has laws it must follow which means that Business's and the Indsutry will adapt to those Laws grow and move forward.

                                                                                                                                Ive been listening to people for years say the model pool will thin out, I havent seen it yet, and personally dont feel with proper practices and communication with Producers that it will become an issue.

                                                                                                                                As for Hosted Galleries we have them too, keep in mind not every affiliate wants to use Hosted Galleries, also keep in mind that if every Affiliate Program woke up tomorrow and took the stance that it wouldnt consider Affiliates as Secondary producers that Gallery Building Affiliates as a whole would be crushed.
                                                                                                                                Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                                                                                                                                51299342

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                                                                                                                                  • ChrisExtreme
                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                    • Apr 2004
                                                                                                                                    • 993
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by lagwagon
                                                                                                                                    ok i wont give out the ids, shoot me some content.
                                                                                                                                    He probably added you to his blacklist. Along with everyone else who wants to purchase his content and make money using it.

                                                                                                                                    Check Out IA Cash's Newest Site Biohazard Bitches

                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                    Thing is if I wanted to shave I have two full time excellent programmers who could build in a shave you would never see.

                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • lagwagon
                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                        • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                                        • 8464
                                                                                                                                        #84
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by mrthumbs
                                                                                                                                        Exactly. Its the only way to get around this.

                                                                                                                                        Im not a content producer but giving out id's to webmasters is just as irresponsible as handing out your processors admin password so they can
                                                                                                                                        check if everything is legit. You know you cant do that.

                                                                                                                                        Life of models is involved here. If you want to think just business: no model wants their ids released to a bunch of retards like us so that will have serious
                                                                                                                                        consequences for production after a few months and the first incidents.
                                                                                                                                        cups half full on this one. dont forget all the threats that paysite owners get. especially you really hardcore site guys.

                                                                                                                                        FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • 3piece chicken Dinner
                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                            • Jan 2005
                                                                                                                                            • 1065
                                                                                                                                            #85
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by lagwagon
                                                                                                                                            Have you seen our content? I was just talking to lightspeed about this. I will give you a temp pass into FTVGirls so you can see that we are not soft. Dont get me wrong this whole thing is fucked up, I dont want to give them out but we have to.

                                                                                                                                            icq 167179530
                                                                                                                                            Actually I like your site very much as I am a paying member, but thank you for the offer.

                                                                                                                                            You are aware that the first page of your tour has no less than 330 images that do not require 2257 documentation to be handed out. one can only assume, and I know because I've been inside. that their are at least 15-20 images per thumb that also don't require you to give out documents.

                                                                                                                                            If you say you have to give out ID's or your business will go down the drain that is one thing, But you have a TON of content I am looking at as I type this that would not require you to give ID's and compromise your models.

                                                                                                                                            And don't forget when Jethro in Podunk gets popped and didn't pay attention to the doc's, didn't ask for the doc's has a cpu failure and looses his docs. It's gonna cause a shit storm on your front door. I'm not saying your going to get busted, but they will come asking questions. I hope it never happens, but damn dude unlike alot of these hardcore niches you have options.

                                                                                                                                            This is the last I will say on the matter, and I thank you for taking the time to read this, I have said my so I will STFU now.

                                                                                                                                            It's your biz. and Lia's and everyother model on your sites business but not mine.
                                                                                                                                            "We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • Donny
                                                                                                                                                As you wish...
                                                                                                                                                • May 2002
                                                                                                                                                • 13754
                                                                                                                                                #86
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Lenny2
                                                                                                                                                Why will he need models when he has no more affiliate traffic and $$ to pay the models with??

                                                                                                                                                What came first the chicken or the egg??

                                                                                                                                                Your damned if you do, damned if you don't, you can't give him shit for his decision any more than you can give Lightspeed shit for their decision......they're both trying to make the best of a fucked up situation.
                                                                                                                                                Post # 69 offers two solutions.

                                                                                                                                                Post 69: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...3&postcount=69

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                                                                                                                                                  • jimmyf
                                                                                                                                                    OU812
                                                                                                                                                    • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                    • 12651
                                                                                                                                                    #87
                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Extreme John
                                                                                                                                                    As for not shooting content for us, thats fine, didnt know who you were before and managed to live for 6 years without your content already.
                                                                                                                                                    Epic CashEpic Cash works for me
                                                                                                                                                    Solar Cash Paysite Plugin
                                                                                                                                                    Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                      • Extreme John
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                        • 1475
                                                                                                                                                        #88
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                                                                                        I won't sell to anyone giving out model IDs to their affiliates.
                                                                                                                                                        Some might find this to be a ridiculous decision as well, but guess what it's your proffesional position and thats what matters you have to live with your decision in the same aspect we will live with ours. Welcome to the world of doing business.
                                                                                                                                                        Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                                                                                                                                                        51299342

                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                          • ChrisExtreme
                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                            • Apr 2004
                                                                                                                                                            • 993
                                                                                                                                                            #89
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                                                                                            I sell exclusive content only to a VERY SHORT LIST of very respected businesses. I can count the number of companies I actively sell content to on one hand. I'll drop those who give out model IDs to affiliates.

                                                                                                                                                            Post #69 gives you two solutions.
                                                                                                                                                            Well by the time you find out one of those companies gave out I.D.'s it will already be out of your hands. So for you to say none of the models info. from girls you shot will become avalible is something you can never enforce. You can stop selling to that company but by then it will be already too late. So you can preach whatever you want but when it comes down to it you can't back it up on your own end.

                                                                                                                                                            Check Out IA Cash's Newest Site Biohazard Bitches

                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                            Thing is if I wanted to shave I have two full time excellent programmers who could build in a shave you would never see.

                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                              • Donny
                                                                                                                                                                As you wish...
                                                                                                                                                                • May 2002
                                                                                                                                                                • 13754
                                                                                                                                                                #90
                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Extreme John
                                                                                                                                                                Some might find this to be a ridiculous decision as well, but guess what it's your proffesional position and thats what matters you have to live with your decision in the same aspect we will live with ours. Welcome to the world of doing business.
                                                                                                                                                                You'll regret this decision, I guarantee it. Just let one model go to the press about how she was almost killed because Extreme gave out her personal info and led a stalker to her.

                                                                                                                                                                Again:



                                                                                                                                                                SHORT


                                                                                                                                                                TERM


                                                                                                                                                                THINKING.


                                                                                                                                                                Read and re-read post #69.

                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                  • Extreme John
                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                    • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                    • 1475
                                                                                                                                                                    #91
                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by mrthumbs
                                                                                                                                                                    not handing out id's to secundary producers should be a part of the contract that every content producer has with its clients. Or am i missing something here?

                                                                                                                                                                    Unless the client provides the models and they are ok with it.
                                                                                                                                                                    Doesnt really matter if it should or shouldnt be, every company handles their Releases differently, ours releases always stated that we had the right to hand out the proper paperwork to "Secondary producers" the government has now decided that "Secondary producers" include many of our affiliates and for those affiliates we will be here.
                                                                                                                                                                    Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                                                                                                                                                                    51299342

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                                                                                                                                                                      • 3piece chicken Dinner
                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                        • Jan 2005
                                                                                                                                                                        • 1065
                                                                                                                                                                        #92
                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by boneprone
                                                                                                                                                                        Here's another approach to addressing the secondary producer affialate problem.

                                                                                                                                                                        When making your free hosted galleries, have in addition to what ever thumbs you normally have on your gallereis 1 or 2 softcore thumbs on the gallery..

                                                                                                                                                                        That way a person like me, when I want to promote your gallerey on my thumb sites, I can use that softcore image to promote your gallery with rather than the Hardcore one..

                                                                                                                                                                        Once the surfer leaves my site and goes to your FHG, then my hands are clean of it..

                                                                                                                                                                        It just sucks that sites like mine need "thumbs" to promote or push traffic from my site to your FHG. Im not about to switch back to "text" based style TGP's and MGPs.

                                                                                                                                                                        it's solutions like this that make you the Godfather of the BP4L family. Very wise idea.
                                                                                                                                                                        "We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."

                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                          • Donny
                                                                                                                                                                            As you wish...
                                                                                                                                                                            • May 2002
                                                                                                                                                                            • 13754
                                                                                                                                                                            #93
                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by ChrisExtreme
                                                                                                                                                                            Well by the time you find out one of those companies gave out I.D.'s it will already be out of your hands. So for you to say none of the models info. from girls you shot will become avalible is something you can never enforce. You can stop selling to that company but by then it will be already too late. So you can preach whatever you want but when it comes down to it you can't back it up on your own end.
                                                                                                                                                                            If I named my client base you'd know they're trustworthy. I've been selling to them for 5-8 years each. They agree with me on this.

                                                                                                                                                                            Read post #69

                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...3&postcount=69

                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                              • Extreme John
                                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                • 1475
                                                                                                                                                                                #94
                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                                                                                                                You'll regret this decision, I guarantee it. Just let one model go to the press about how she was almost killed because Extreme gave out her personal info and led a stalker to her.

                                                                                                                                                                                Again:



                                                                                                                                                                                SHORT


                                                                                                                                                                                TERM


                                                                                                                                                                                THINKING.


                                                                                                                                                                                Read and re-read post #69.
                                                                                                                                                                                Thats a wonderfull and precious thought, she can go to the press... ASSuming we are the only company that specific model ever filmed for, guess what in todays day and age not as many female models try to hide what they do.... HENCE Adult Entertainment the Billion $ Industry, and chances are if they have filmed once, they have filmed 2x or imagine maybe more. I mean Im sure not YOUR models but plenty of the one's out there have.

                                                                                                                                                                                Guess we will see wont we. Than we Donavan you can jump on here and piss a yellow rainbow about how you told me so, until than your going off of a shitload of assumptions and accusations that have no backing for this current day and time.
                                                                                                                                                                                Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                                                                                                                                                                                51299342

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                                                                                                                                                                                  • ChrisExtreme
                                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Apr 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 993
                                                                                                                                                                                    #95
                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                                                                                                                    If I named my client base you'd know they're trustworthy. I've been selling to them for 5-8 years each. They agree with me on this.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Read post #69

                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...3&postcount=69
                                                                                                                                                                                    I've read post 69 along with all the posts in this thread. But like John has said over and over again is everyone has to do whats right for their own business.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Check Out IA Cash's Newest Site Biohazard Bitches

                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                    Thing is if I wanted to shave I have two full time excellent programmers who could build in a shave you would never see.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                      • Extreme John
                                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 1475
                                                                                                                                                                                        #96
                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                                                                                                                        If I named my client base you'd know they're trustworthy. I've been selling to them for 5-8 years each. They agree with me on this.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Read post #69

                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...3&postcount=69

                                                                                                                                                                                        PS I have answered everything you have stated, why dont you answer the one question I asked you, prove to me how you know EVERY SINGLE COMPANY/PERSON you sell to.. Just because they have bought from you for years doesnt mean a thing and doesnt make them any different than an affiliate that has been with ARS, EP ND, TB RC, or any other affiliate program for years.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Florida Honnies - Extreme John


                                                                                                                                                                                        51299342

                                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                          • mrthumbs
                                                                                                                                                                                            salad tossing sig guy
                                                                                                                                                                                            • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 11702
                                                                                                                                                                                            #97
                                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Extreme John
                                                                                                                                                                                            Doesnt really matter if it should or shouldnt be, every company handles their Releases differently, ours releases always stated that we had the right to hand out the proper paperwork to "Secondary producers" the government has now decided that "Secondary producers" include many of our affiliates and for those affiliates we will be here.
                                                                                                                                                                                            The point here is everyone can be an 'affiliate' so you have an open-id system.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I understand from a business perspective why your priority is aimed at your affiliates but in reality, when full id's turns out the only way to go, this will cause shit to hit the fan.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                              • kernelpanic
                                                                                                                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                                                • Jan 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 2961
                                                                                                                                                                                                #98
                                                                                                                                                                                                I do not know the answer to this question, and would appreciate someone offering the answer: do free hosted galleries linked via a FRAME or IFRAME count as part of "my page"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                I understand the natural reaction to using FHGs, but it does seem a tempting solution right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Also, what about using a layout like this:

                                                                                                                                                                                                ----------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                [softcore pic] [softcore pic] [softcore pic]

                                                                                                                                                                                                [softcore pic] [softcore pic] [softcore pic]

                                                                                                                                                                                                [softcore pic] [softcore pic] [softcore pic]

                                                                                                                                                                                                [click here for hardcore action]
                                                                                                                                                                                                ----------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                Then have the "click here" use a javascript popup to a smaller window displaying the FHG. Using window properties, the titlebar can be hidden, similar to many help popups you see on mainstream sites.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Are tactics like these legal, or would it be an illegal attempt to find a loophole?


                                                                                                                                                                                                ZangoCash - Turn Your Traffic Into Ca$h.
                                                                                                                                                                                                $.40 Per Install - No Tier

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                  • boneprone
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hall Of Fame
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • 34415
                                                                                                                                                                                                    #99
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by 3piece chicken Dinner
                                                                                                                                                                                                    it's solutions like this that make you the Godfather of the BP4L family. Very wise idea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Lol..

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Who are you posting under that fake user name?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Bow to the Power - Still BP4L
                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Learn about it kids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Donny
                                                                                                                                                                                                        As you wish...
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • May 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 13754
                                                                                                                                                                                                        #100
                                                                                                                                                                                                        You have options that work just as well or better than what you've decided to do. This type of shit shows the type of trashy scum really work in this business. You can easily protect your models but instead you'd rather rationalize with bullshit like this. How do YOU know which models are okay and which aren't?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Start hosting galleries. Create hosted galleries and/or provide space for affiliates to build their own galleries. If the galleries are on your servers under a domain you own, everybody wins. Your affiliates will appreciate the free hosting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Otherwise you're complete and utter pond scum, thinking only of your own bottom line.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

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