Legal advice needed - asap - ATKingdom not 2257 compliant - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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johnshinil

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#1

Legal advice needed - asap - ATKingdom not 2257 compliant

06-04-2005, 06:57 AM

We need legal advice as soon as possible. We recently sold
some sets to ATK, then bought back the sets from them, before
they were published because model asked not to be published and provided
the money. After we paid ATK the money for return of sets they also returned the model release.

Now ATK published the set, although the rights were bought back and they do not posses the 2257 docs for the set.

PLease any advice will be helpful.
I am seeking legal representation in this matter and also any advice you can give me. The sets need to be removed from their site asap.

Please contact me on [email protected] if you have any helpful information on how to deal with this urgent matter.

Regards
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#2

06-04-2005, 08:07 AM

This is a shitty story... bump for help

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#3

06-04-2005, 08:09 AM

If they don't have the rights to use the sets then just send them an email asking them to take them down.

I'm pretty sure the ATK guys would do just that...and I would also be willing to wager that it was just a huge mistake on someone's part.

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#4

06-04-2005, 08:09 AM

Ok here's your first problem.

You're seeking legal advice on GFY.

Solution......go shoot yourself in the face, put yourself out of your misery, you're too stupid to live.

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ddfGandalf

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#5

06-04-2005, 08:15 AM

Just send an email to them, and you'll get this solved
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#6

06-04-2005, 08:16 AM

The owner of ATK has been in the industry for a long time and is a nice guy. Just talk to him directly and I'm sure your issue will be rectified.

Also GFY is not a good place to get legal advice because you'll inevitably get a bunch of conflicting opinions, none of which are based on factual law.

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#7

06-04-2005, 08:16 AM

i would email them asking them to take the stuff down. if they don't....i don't know.
good luck!

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#8

06-04-2005, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

If they don't have the rights to use the sets then just send them an email asking them to take them down.

I'm pretty sure the ATK guys would do just that...and I would also be willing to wager that it was just a huge mistake on someone's part.

I am sure they have some sort of content manager and its a mix up, contact them right away.

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#9

06-04-2005, 08:24 AM

wooohooooo
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#10

06-04-2005, 08:25 AM

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hlight=atkcash
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#11

06-04-2005, 08:25 AM

What a surprise, they cancel an affiliate's account because he skims their thumbs on his TGP yet they have illegal material on their site.
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#12

06-04-2005, 08:26 AM

What does this post has to do with this thread fireorange?
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#13

06-04-2005, 08:30 AM

webmaster at atkingdom dot com

why don't you ask Kim personally, probably the set was already in the content management system. i'm sure he will delete it immediately.

and next time do that first before coming to gfy and screaming for legal advice. idiot.

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#14

06-04-2005, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by fireorange

What a surprise, they cancel an affiliate's account because he skims their thumbs on his TGP yet they have illegal material on their site.

What a surprise... you jump right on the bandwagon without all the facts. ATK is one of the very best in the business. You, my friend, are hearing one side and making a judgement in your own (really fucking ignorant clueless) mind.
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#15

06-04-2005, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by fireorange

What a surprise, they cancel an affiliate's account because he skims their thumbs on his TGP yet they have illegal material on their site.

stfu

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#16

06-04-2005, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by fireorange

What a surprise, they cancel an affiliate's account because he skims their thumbs on his TGP yet they have illegal material on their site.

Yeah I'm sure a company that spends over a million a year on exclusive content has to steal a few sets from this loser in order to do their updates

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#17

06-04-2005, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by ddfGandalf

What does this post has to do with this thread fireorange?

He's just another GFY asshole that likes drama. Wayyyyyyy to much time on his hands

Just get in touch with Kim and he will solve the matter. They are a class act and always abide by all laws and then some.

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#18

06-04-2005, 08:41 AM

This guy gets the dumb ass of the year award... Just e-mail Kim and he will fix the problem... You are a dumbass for bringing this to GFY... Kim runs the most professional program in adult on line. But, If I were him, I would not buy anymore content from you... LOL
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#19

06-04-2005, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by johnshinil

We need legal advice as soon as possible. We recently sold
some sets to ATK, then bought back the sets from them, before
they were published because model asked not to be published and provided
the money. After we paid ATK the money for return of sets they also returned the model release.

Now ATK published the set, although the rights were bought back and they do not posses the 2257 docs for the set.

Please any advice will be helpful.
I am seeking legal representation in this matter and also any advice you can give me. The sets need to be removed from their site asap.

Please contact me on [email protected] if you have any helpful information on how to deal with this urgent matter.

Regards

Sounds like bullshit to me....And here's why.

ATK requires all 2257 docs prior to paying you. You claim you were paid, then purchased the sets back.....You say they then sent you the release back. BFD......They probably have multiple copies of everything anyway....In fact, I know they do.

While it may be true that ATK no longer has a license for those images, I'm quite sure that they will remove them if you were professional about this instead of acting like an asshole by posting a simple issue like this on GFY and at the same time, damaging their reputation by stating that they are non-compliant with 2257.

Since the model DID sign the release and since you did issue a license and/or work for hire agreement, the best you could hope for is a copyright infringement case which probably would not hold much weight based on the other facts.

What you should have done was contacted them about this then issued a DMCA notification had they not responded.

If I were them, I would gladly pull the images then I would sue you for libel.

I hope Kim reads this thread then takes legal action.

Last edited by AaronM; 06-04-2005, 08:43 AM.
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chadglni

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#20

06-04-2005, 08:46 AM

Agreed Aaron but I don't think it ruined their rep. The no skim thread dumbo linked to up there made me love this sponsor. They seem to know exactly what they are doing in terms of keeping their brand valuable.

Go ATK!

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#21

06-04-2005, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by AaronM

If I were them, I would gladly pull the images then I would sue you for libel.

I hope Kim reads this thread then takes legal action.

I doubt Kim will sue the guy, but I know he'll pull the images down as soon as he's made aware of the problem.

And I'd expect the man will never sell content to him again. This guy just lost a LOT of money by going to GFY instead of handling things professionally. LOL.
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#22

06-04-2005, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by AaronM

Sounds like bullshit to me....And here's why.

ATK requires all 2257 docs prior to paying you. You claim you were paid, then purchased the sets back.....You say they then sent you the release back. BFD......They probably have multiple copies of everything anyway....In fact, I know they do.

While it may be true that ATK no longer has a license for those images, I'm quite sure that they will remove them if you were professional about this instead of acting like an asshole by posting a simple issue like this on GFY and at the same time, damaging their reputation by stating that they are non-compliant with 2257.

Since the model DID sign the release and since you did issue a license and/or work for hire agreement, the best you could hope for is a copyright infringement case which probably would not hold much weight based on the other facts.

What you should have done was contacted them about this then issued a DMCA notification had they not responded.

If I were them, I would gladly pull the images then I would sue you for libel.

I hope Kim reads this thread then takes legal action.

yes, yes and yes....

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#23

06-04-2005, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by chadglni

Agreed Aaron but I don't think it ruined their rep. The no skim thread dumbo linked to up there made me love this sponsor. They seem to know exactly what they are doing in terms of keeping their brand valuable.

Go ATK!

I don't know man...After seeing this thread title...I now have many doubts as I'm sure Donovan does too.

Poor ATK may lose 10's of thousands just from the thread title alone.

Last edited by AaronM; 06-04-2005, 08:50 AM.
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chadglni

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#24

06-04-2005, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by AaronM

I don't know man...After seeing this thread title...I know have many doubts as I'm sure Donovan does too.

Poor ATK may lose 10's of thousands just from the thread title alone.

The other one was even better. Told him to take his 50% skim and shove it.

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#25

06-04-2005, 08:50 AM

Did you ever think to ask?
Retard.

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#26

06-04-2005, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by chadglni

The other one was even better. Told him to take his 50% skim and shove it.

Yep...I read the thread.

For the record...ATK is not now and never has been a client of mine....BUT...I do know them and I fully understand their stance on that issue.
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#27

06-04-2005, 08:53 AM

Nearly a drama thread ....

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#28

06-04-2005, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by DonovanPhillips

I doubt Kim will sue the guy, but I know he'll pull the images down as soon as he's made aware of the problem.

And I'd expect the man will never sell content to him again. This guy just lost a LOT of money by going to GFY instead of handling things professionally. LOL.

You're right...Kim will most likely not take any legal action....But what if.

And yes, this guy gone and done fucked up pretty big as far as shooting for ATK goes. There are your average clients and then there are the ATK type clients. A person shooting for ATK who has a steady flow of models probably makes more from ATK each year than the average GFY member earns from whatever they do besides surfing.
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johnshinil

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#29

06-04-2005, 08:57 AM

Its not about the money, its about the fact that they published sets, which I bought back, and even paid them 3k USD for removing my sets + return of their payment.

Mistake or no mistake. They now published those sets and just fucked me up good. I mailed them I called them ,but they are not available. Every minute those sets are up the chance of getting someone hurt physically increases. This is also the prime reason I bought the sets back immediately and was willing to pay them more than twice the ammount of money for which I sold to them.
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johnshinil

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#30

06-04-2005, 09:01 AM

Also... I bought back the sets 2 months ago, before they were published, and at that time I also got the paper copy of model release back + they agreed not to publish sets. Now a few days ago they were published.
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Donny

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#31

06-04-2005, 09:02 AM

Some points that should be made to the thread starter:

1. Why the FUCK didn't you fully explain to your model what she was getting into BEFORE you photographed her? You didn't explain where her photos were going?

2. Kim didn't have to return your photos at all. He had the docs and only did so because he's a kind, understanding person (please read #1 again)

3. You created a lot of work for ATK by doing this. It's not easy pulling photos out of their que and replacing them with something else. It also throws off scheduling, etc.

4. Let's ASSUME you are telling the truth: Kim has a lot of employees. This is likely a simple mistake. Handle things professionally next time and you won't lose a valuable customer.
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#32

06-04-2005, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by johnshinil

Its not about the money, its about the fact that they published sets, which I bought back, and even paid them 3k USD for removing my sets + return of their payment.

Mistake or no mistake. They now published those sets and just fucked me up good. I mailed them I called them ,but they are not available. Every minute those sets are up the chance of getting someone hurt physically increases. This is also the prime reason I bought the sets back immediately and was willing to pay them more than twice the ammount of money for which I sold to them.

As much as that sucks....So be it. That's the risk that is taken when a girl decides to pose for porn.

Perhaps had you taken a bit more time and discussed these risks with your model, you would not be in this situation.

FYI, I have been shooting this stuff for many, many years and not once has a model EVER asked me to pull her stuff down. Other shooters get these requests on a regular basis because a lot of them are greedy fucks who want the quick buck and don't give 2 shits about the model.

If a girl is even 1% unsure, I send her home to think about it.

Seems to me that perhaps both you and the model may be learning a lesson here.

Last edited by AaronM; 06-04-2005, 09:08 AM.
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crazies

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#33

06-04-2005, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by DonovanPhillips

Some points that should be made to the thread starter:

1. Why the FUCK didn't you fully explain to your model what she was getting into BEFORE you photographed her? You didn't explain where her photos were going?

2. Kim didn't have to return your photos at all. He had the docs and only did so because he's a kind, understanding person (please read #1 again)

3. You created a lot of work for ATK by doing this. It's not easy pulling photos out of their que and replacing them with something else. It also throws off scheduling, etc.

4. Let's ASSUME you are telling the truth: Kim has a lot of employees. This is likely a simple mistake. Handle things professionally next time and you won't lose a valuable customer.

I agree with Donovan 100%

And let me point something out here Greg, If indeed ATK did post the pics it was definitely an accident as there are many people involved in removing sets from updates that are already in the queue. So merely an honest mistake.

Let me point something else out ATK is right in the middle of moving their operations to an entirely different city hours away from where they were. I do know that Kim always responds to emails almost immediately with the exception of the 3-4 hours a night he does sleep. So I am gonna assume that you contacted him about this in the past 2 days when his online time has been VERY limited.

Maybe next time have some patience.

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johnshinil

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#34

06-04-2005, 09:22 AM

Yes it seems like it was a mistake. They removed the set. I am now moving my crew out of the country, since due to this mistake they are no longer safe here.
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#35

06-04-2005, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by johnshinil

Yes it seems like it was a mistake. They removed the set. I am now moving my crew out of the country, since due to this mistake they are no longer safe here.

It seems to me that if you would tell your models up front what they're getting into you wouldn't have this problem. You also wouldn't have the problem if you weren't shooting in countries where ya don't belong. Know what I mean?
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#36

06-04-2005, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by DonovanPhillips

It seems to me that if you would tell your models up front what they're getting into you wouldn't have this problem. You also wouldn't have the problem if you weren't shooting in countries where ya don't belong. Know what I mean?

I tell my models exactly what they are getting into. They sign a 7 page model release, translated into their native language.

I am shooting in my home country, and now relocating crew out because of this.
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#37

06-04-2005, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by DonovanPhillips

It seems to me that if you would tell your models up front what they're getting into you wouldn't have this problem. You also wouldn't have the problem if you weren't shooting in countries where ya don't belong. Know what I mean?

You and I think way too much alike.
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#38

06-04-2005, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by johnshinil

I tell my models exactly what they are getting into. They sign a 7 page model release, translated into their native language.

I am shooting in my home country, and now relocating crew out because of this.

Congratulations, you just reaffirmed to all of GFY what a shitty idea it would be to purchase something from you.

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#39

06-04-2005, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Ok here's your first problem.

You're seeking legal advice on GFY.

Solution......go shoot yourself in the face, put yourself out of your misery, you're too stupid to live.

it's a good point, use a shotgun too, you don't want to end up living and being more retarded than you are.
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#40

06-04-2005, 09:36 AM

after a public stunt like this I doubt they'll ever hire him for content again.

Dude, all you had to do was contact them about it. They are a fairly large business. Do you honnestly think they are doing this on purpose and are hard up for that content? It's obvisouly an error on their part that could be remedied in a few minutes if you just talk to one of them.
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#41

06-04-2005, 11:01 AM

Gregor,

We apologize for the error and we removed the set within 10 minutes of your calling our office to let us know about the mistake this morning.

As I previously explained to you, we work on our updates months in advance and that shoot had already been processed and so we had to manually pull the sets from the update system. One of our employees missed on of the 15 sets we had purchased and we are sorry for this mistake.

However, to imply that we are not 2257 compliant on that set is simply not correct. Once a shoot has been paid for and entered into our system we make 3 copies of the paperwork and keep copies of the next 7 years even though we may return the originals. This shoot falls into that category.

Once again we apologize for the mistake.

Kim Nielsen
CEO Kingdom WWW Operations, Inc.
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#42

06-04-2005, 11:03 AM

I fucked her.

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#43

06-04-2005, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Ok here's your first problem.

You're seeking legal advice on GFY.

Solution......go shoot yourself in the face, put yourself out of your misery, you're too stupid to live.

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#44

06-04-2005, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by kingdom7

Gregor,

We apologize for the error and we removed the set within 10 minutes of your calling our office to let us know about the mistake this morning.

As I previously explained to you, we work on our updates months in advance and that shoot had already been processed and so we had to manually pull the sets from the update system. One of our employees missed on of the 15 sets we had purchased and we are sorry for this mistake.

However, to imply that we are not 2257 compliant on that set is simply not correct. Once a shoot has been paid for and entered into our system we make 3 copies of the paperwork and keep copies of the next 7 years even though we may return the originals. This shoot falls into that category.

Once again we apologize for the mistake.

Kim Nielsen
CEO Kingdom WWW Operations, Inc.

Originally posted by AaronM

ATK requires all 2257 docs prior to paying you. You claim you were paid, then purchased the sets back.....You say they then sent you the release back. BFD......They probably have multiple copies of everything anyway....In fact, I know they do.

Is this the part where I say "I told you so?"
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#45

06-04-2005, 11:16 AM

It's a tough situation

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#46

06-04-2005, 11:23 AM

whoa - this is an historic day for GFY - ATK Kim posted, did the seas part?

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#47

06-04-2005, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by AaronM

Is this the part where I say "I told you so?"

well, same here...

why don't you ask Kim personally, probably the set was already in the content management system. i'm sure he will delete it immediately.

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#48

06-04-2005, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Mutt

whoa - this is an historic day for GFY - ATK Kim posted, did the seas part?

LOL...I noticed that too. He's been sitting on that user name for 2 years without posting.
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#49

06-04-2005, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Mutt

whoa - this is an historic day for GFY - ATK Kim posted, did the seas part?
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#50

06-04-2005, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by DonovanPhillips

2. Kim didn't have to return your photos at all. He had the docs and only did so because he's a kind, understanding person

he charged him more than he paid to remove them. i dont see how that is so kind and understanding. i only see that as a smart business move and nothing more.

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