.xxx - the best way to stop censorship.

couldnt have said it better

Will porn sites be forced to go .xxx?

I fail to see how this will happen for several reasons.

1. It would need every country to pass this law. I do not think the UK would.
2. The main problem is then you have to define what is porn. Such as is hegre-archives.com porn? To me this is art. Also webcam sites and dating sites, will they be classed as porn. If fact what if you have a health sex site, would this have to be put on a .xxx? Its not possible to say what is or is not porn. In the UK there is no legal definition of porn. In fact much of the UK law is defined under obscenity which again is not defined but down to personal view points. Although R18 porn films do have a list of what is acceptable, this is not law but what the sensors have decided.

"yeah but you're forgetting about people who will still want to censor pornography because they think it's obscene..."<P>The supreme court already ruled that people have a right to view porn !

But not "obscenity." And the SC has no problem with some people calling some kinds of porn obscene.

All I know is that the first day of public .xxx registrations will be hectic! A stampede!

The Great State of Utah will block your XXX tld in a heart beat (if they still have a pulse that is)

I believe XXX would go in waves... As in, it'd be available in 2006 and maditory in 2008 so that the TM issues can be worked out.

Have you read this?
From:
http://www.icannwatch.org/articles/0.../1339259.shtml
___________________


From: Lauren Weinstein
Date: June 2, 2005 12:39:32 AM EDT
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: ICANN's "ex-ex-ex" domains and the slippery slope

Dave,

As noted in:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/interne....ap/index.html

ICANN has reversed its long-standing opposition to a TLD (top-level domain) "red-light district" and is moving toward creation of a "dot-ex-ex-ex" domain space (my phonetic spelling is an attempt to avoid having this message and your list shunted by the usual simpleminded filters).

This about-face by ICANN demonstrates yet again how major decisions by the organization are made without significant, broad public discourse. Ironically, it also reverses one of the more sensible arguments that ICANN had previously been making.

Unlike other "topic-specific" TLDs like dot-jobs or dot-travel, the existence of dot-ex-ex-ex is likely to create a political and litigious firestorm over time, as various government entities move to try force "adult" sites into the new domain space, and battles erupt over what an adult site is defined to be.

While some obviously hardcore sites will likely be enthusiastic about having an ostensibly "safe" TLD for operations, a vast number of sites that aren't hardcore, or that have a variety of materials -- only some of which are adult oriented in nature -- are likely to be far less willing to be categorized in that manner.

Will there be calls for any site with explicit photographs or texts (even in classical or health contexts) to be relegated to the new dot-ex-ex-ex domains? What about sites selling contraceptives, sexual aids, or "adult toys" of various kinds? Given the history of the religous right, these should not be considered to be far-fetched possibilities. Will it be mandated that you must "prove" your adult status (e.g., by identifying yourself with a credit card) before you may have access to the new domains? Certainly many organizations (and possibly even ISPs) will be pressured to block access, making "forced" population of the new TLD even more problematic.

And does this set a precedent that will be applied to other areas of Internet content control, especially if some or all of the Children's Online Protection Act (COPA) is upheld by the Supreme Court?

The creation of dot-ex-ex-ex may set the stage for potentially damaging and disruptive content control and censorship wars that we can hardly even imagine today. It's worth thinking through these issues very carefully before going down that path.


--Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
[email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected]
Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800
http://www.pfir.org/lauren
Co-Founder, PFIR
- People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
Co-Founder, EEPI
- Electronic Entertainment Policy Initiative - http://www.eepi.org
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com
DayThink: http://daythink.vortex.com

jman hit it on the spot , if others think different you are being fooled

FANTASTIC stuff!!

let me ask again ( there were so many threads about it already )

does anyone seriously think the ICANN's decision can be still reversed, if yes, how?

Exactly. First come, first served. Better get your .xxx domains now.

Hey look, I'm famous:

http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/3510056

Aside from the part about me in there, I found this part most interesting:

Anyone else wondering if Parry Aftab, someone who thinks we try to trick children to visit our sites, will be one of the people sitting on the board of IFFOR, making decisions for all of us about how we can use .XXX domain names? Or maybe some of you didn't know that outside groups will be making decisions about what you can and cannot do with a .XXX domain name? Who was it who supported this shit again?

It would be just as easy to block with appropriate software and ratings.

Bingo!

See that's sound a whoe hell of lot like REGULATONS. Now if porn isn't a legitimate business then the government can't regualte it. Are there regulations for crack dealers? See this is where the religious right is fucking up. Once you REGULATE something then be defualt you LEGITIMIZE it. Now since porn is legally considered a LEGITIMATE business it's going to be 100X harder to ban it.

See software cost money and aprten can't afford that $20. Do you know how mnay people buy a computer and one their 90 days of free anti-virus runs out the do not continue their subsription or buy some other anti-virus?

Good white paper on .xxx

http://www7.nationalacademies.org/it...tml#P161_39485

Even if .xxx was in place software would be needed to block the domains from people who wanted them blocked. You don't seem to get that either way, software of some sort is needed.

It would be just as easy to petition isp's and browser creators to integrate a block for certain ratings than it would be to make all adult sites change to .xxx . EASIER, actually.

Brilliant! Oh wait, except 2257 REGULATIONS have been around for years, so on second thought, I guess that won't work.

Geesh, do people really think something like some new 2257 regs or a .XXX domain name will suddenly get the government to stop targeting adult?

Actually, IE already has tools for parents to block adult sites rated with ICRA. That's a FREE solution that is available RIGHT NOW and which costs both parents and webmasters NOTHING. Despite these facts a few people are still trying to defend .XXX? Interesting...

Hey Gary. I was just thinking about you. I know you have your attorneys ready for this fight, but man, every penny you have to pay them to defend your sex.com property is a penny that you would never of had to spend if it weren't for certain people in this industry helping to make this dot-xxx thing go through. Fuck man, you should send these people your attorney bill.

5 thumbs up for Connor!

People just want a reason to bitch and regulate. Bitch and Regulate.

Has any govt in any country stepped up and claimed they are going to look kindly on xxx TLD's and not prosecute them, but stand for the concept that companies operating xxx TLD's have more credibility in the marketplace?

I don't think so!

And that won't be happening either - govt's will do whatever politicians think will make them look good.

Snake-handling does not seem to be one of GYF's stronger points :-)

Totally agree Conner!

But.. if anyone actually thinks this had *anything* to do with child protection, - they are easily conned.

There are existing laws waiting to be enforced (yea, including the 90's version of 2257) - and absolutely no reason why the govt should not be enforcing them. What date would they like to start enforcing the laws they spent so much time debating? Tomorrow morning OK??

Bottom line... it's all political crap and very hypocritical....

A few things first people who think people only buy porn at home are smoking dope. Look at your joins what time they came and what time zone . They cant all work night jobs. Also it will be interesting to see what policies we have to follow to keep a .xxx domain. Its not just a matter of buying them like before, now you have to also follw a set of policies they set up. I also have a problem where the governing body for this is the same company with a different name basically.THe big question is this crushes our businesses do we get to sue the people that caused this?Also this has nothing to do with protecting children no adult web master wants kids looking at their site ,they have no money. They want to protect kids go after chat rooms

LENSMAN.. I think its a fair question to ask seeing as how you are obviously making your opinion for one side.

Do you or adult.com have any deals made/offered/secured for adult.xxx ? or are you just hoping the same as everyone else that they transfer the .com's to .xxx's

Im pretty sure if memory serves me right the people with the .coms will get a grace period to go to .xxx.

whatever Lensman says....goes...



golf tee time tomorrow Lens is at 7:15am. you better be ready

US owned and ran adult sites will all be on the xxx

Outside the US will stay .com

The internet cant be owned and ran by the US and their ideals.. The internet is a global entity.

I just got back from Bejing China.. Many of our sites were blocked there by the government. Its Communist there.. No free speech, and highly government controlled censorship..

I think the land of the free is going to have a very ugly backlash quite soon. The issues of censorship, free speech are going to backlash hard as soon as the US starts playing police with the internet much like it likes to do with the world in global affairs.

Should be intresting.

boneprone, how have you been?

DonovanPhillips..you are so right, ............something really fucking stinks with this .xxx deal...

right before WW2 the nazis moved all the kews to gettos right before they sent them too concentration camps. Same thing dude. I have a lot of respect for you lensman. but I think your very mistaken on this one.

The most obvious flaw in that statement is that you omitted the word "only". So are you suggesting that adult sites should be banned from every other TLD? And even "If adult content was only on it's own TLD..." parents would still need to apply the filters that right now most apparently cannot be bothered with.

Come on. There are thousands of businesses which willingly deny themselves the exposure they could get from the adult internet. I doubt most know or care if they make more or less money as a result, but they perceive that it works for them and that is all which matters. If the big ISP's saw a marketing advantage in auto-filtering porn (and I'm damn sure they would), they would be on it in a flash.

Sure a lot of people would switch to "open" ISP's, but can you imagine daddy trying to explain to mommy why he didn't want to use a safe ISP? And what about all the casual customers we get right now, but who would pick what they see as the best or cheapest ISP's, even if it meant not being able to surf for porn.

What exactly do you perceive as the magic of an adult TLD which would prevent the government prosecuting people?

Then you had better get ready for lots of lawsuits, since the statement made by the registrar selected to control this TLD is so vaguely worded.

Be realistic. The new registry is a commercial operation set up to make some easy money from what the owners surely perceive as a lucrative market. Do you seriously imagine they intend to blow a major part of their profits hiring enough staff of the right calibre to handle possibly complex disputes properly and quickly? There are potentially thousands of such disputes.

If adult sites are not banned from using all other TLD's, this move has absolutely no positive value for anyone except for the .xxx registrar. It will take years for surfers to get out of the habit of assuming .com, which means that they will remain the most popular domains and thus there will be no more reason to buy an .xxx domain than there is now to buy any other secondary TLD.

Which also means that when (not "if", because how long do you think it will be before anti-porn interests try to segregate us, once they can do so easily?) we are forced into .xxx only, for a while at least, a huge amount of traffic is going to be looking at error messages instead of reaching our sites.

Here's how this might unfold:

1. First we voluntarily increase our expenses by $60 per year for every domain we want to protect. At this point, no-one but the registrar has gained a thing.

2. Then adult sites are all forced onto the .xxx TLD, pushing up our expenses whether we like it or not and at least temporarily causing huge damage to many sites' traffic flow. Still no-one but the registrar is significantly better off, although some filtering software might be made to work more efficiently.

3. Next, ISP's and/or governments begin to block the .xxx domains and our business really takes a dive.

I wouldn't like to guess at a timescale and 2 & 3 wouldn't have maximum impact unless all other TLD's blocked adult sites. That is extremely unlikely. But we could find TLD's that accept adult sites and charging even more than the $60 that .xxx domains will apparently cost. Nor is there anything to stop the US government - for example - making it an offense for adult sites to use any other TLD.

I don't pretend that we cannot be targetted now, but I don't see a benefit in making it easier. I believe we should have long ago started addressing the concerns about our business which most antagonize people, but I do not see the creation of this new TLD as being even the smallest step in the right direction. It is solely a commercial opportunity for the registrar which at best will push up our expenses for zero return and at worst is potentially disastrous.

as lambs led to the slaughter.

bump yeah
Just because some people are getting used to semi-communism does not mean others will bend over. Its not about censorship. Its about control. Those in this industry who really support or believe enforcing this is good, they are lost or corrupt.

Chad for once i agree with you.

You guys need to pull back the sheet from over your eyes. Do you really think these money hungry greedy fuckers who are pushing the .xxx name give a shit if you own pussy.com. They know pussy.xxx will be purchased so why would they go through the trouble of making sure MILLIONS of dot coms get transfered over. It would take them years a millions of dollars of man power to do this. Also they never did this for .net, they never did it for .org .tv .us .info .whatever so why would they do this for .xxx ??????

put your emotions aside for a minute. You are leasing the .com of the domain you are using. You do not even own the .com much less do you have any rights to any of the other tlds. you bought .com period. all emotions and pissed off aside that the honest truth just as much as you have no legal rights to having first dibs on .net or .us.

.xxx is really really bad, we need to stop this from happening period not be a stupid bunch of ignorant assholes saying " well if i can get the .xxx" I will be ok with it. No THAT does not make it ok, and there is no chance in hell it is going to happen anyways, unless if you have a trademark on you domain. So get over it and fight it from happening.

This aint happening. Ok first of all I have internet through Charter. Now say that they start blocking porn. Well they, lose my $40. I'll go with someone who WON'T block porn. And so will millions of others. Speaking of Charter, I can currently get 4 porn PPV channels on Charter cable ALL of which would be MUCH easier to block than websites yet they aren't. And I live in the Bible Belt. Hmmmmmmmm.

You can't. Get that yet?

It's nice when you can find a post you agree with 100% saves a lot of typing. Good post jayeff

ok then pardon me, please resume bitching about how everyone would be ok with it if they can get .xxx for their existing .com.

Let's just give up then, is that a solution that would fit you better ??. I think there is enough smart people here we could come up with something, but doesn;t look like a who lot of positive thinking to me. And any comments that claim to be ok with .xxx in anyway does not help us.

Well the stock market is legal. The SEC still goes after people that engage in insider trading. Wal-Mart got busted last year for hiring illegals. Look at Enron, Aldelhpia and other companies. Just because you a legitimate business doesn't mean the government says "Ok we'll stop investigating you"

I wonder how many people here are complain about government inteventions and yet still voted for Bush? Not many but some. Simplist way of stoping this is to NOT vote for republicans. You don't have to vote for a Dem just don't vote for a repub. Vote libertarian. And if you can't stand anyone else then DO NOT VOTE AT ALL. Quit shooting yourselves in the foot. Also convince your friends family and one else not to vote republican. Drive their asses down to the voting station if you have too. Reason why the religous right gets to control everything is because they have their shit together and make sure people that think like them actually vote.

you get those PPV channels for free ??? I didn't think so.

I predict that Charter and the others will charge 2 internet access plans, the Family Access Rate $40 or the Adult (xxx) rate $75 Mark my words this will happen. And there will be millions who can either 1. not afford to pay for the xxx rate or 2. can't hide the charge or explain to their spouse why they need to spend more to have the .xxx acces. No ISP will lose business, if you don't want to pay more then fine, you still have access.

The ISP's have been drooling for a way to make additional income, now they will be able to take a piece of our ass like i know they have been wanting to do for a long time.

I never said anything about that one way or another. Please post PROOF of what you say.

What solutions do you have? All I read is bitching and Nostradamus like predictions of shit that may or may not happen. Can I have this week's Powerball #'s while you're at it.

Ok you have what about 3 weeks before this becomes real. Better get started doing somethign. whatever that is.

WTF does that have to do with anything? My internet aint free either. the point is if teh government wants to stop porn so badly they could have EASILY made Charter take those channels off the air. They haven't. So what is Bush waiting for?

And they will lose my business. PERIOD.

I didn't write anywhere that it would happen, only that it could.

My point was that the introduction of XXX domains will not be without consequences. It makes sense to examine what might they be.

An immediate consequence is that if you don't want to lose a domain to someone else, you are facing $60 per domain per year in extra costs. There is no obvious, immediate direct benefit to make that expense worthwhile. Quite the opposite, because despite their price, those domains will be far less valuable in the immediate future than .com domains.

In fact they will only become valuable, to webmasters or to those who want to filter out adult sites, if adult sites are prevented from operating except as XXX domains. It surely isn't much of a stretch, particularly as we face the new 2257 regulations, that if we can be segregated, sooner rather than later, we will be segregated? It's just too tempting a political platform to imagine it being left alone.

Sure that is already speculation. But if there are no benefits now and we don't try to find some by looking ahead, how can we possibly support the new TLD? Looking ahead to the most likely next step, the sole benefit might be slightly easier filtering, but that will come at a heck of a price for us in terms of registration fees and traffic disruption.

Your guess is as good as mine as to whether my predictions may come true. But the risk is that they might and I would like something to justify that risk. In the meantime, I can't even find the smallest justification for my costs increasing...

The one thing we can all do (those against .xxx) is simple. We should set up a website that states our feelings and all link to it.

We should agree to.
1. Not buying .xxx sites
2. Not linking to .xxx sites
3. Not to buy domains with any firm that sells .xxx domain names
4. To consider .xxx a worthless low level domain
5. Not to do trade with .xxx sites

It seems to me the only reason people will buy .xxx is the fear that at one point they will become worth something or indeed needed.

Or we all put $100 in a pot, and buy all the .xxx names you can think off and simply not use them.

That said, If the firm who sells .xxx would like to send me some shares in the firm, I will be supporting .xxx domains.

Thats stupidity, but go right ahead. I'm sure some opportunist out there who doesn't give a shit about the politics of it all would love to step in where a collective effort refuses to go.