School shooting in Missouri...

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15716383.htm

what is wrong with the usa and all these people targeting our schools?

errr...a clerk at wallmart?

Another crazy shit on the loose!
Who's to blame here? The media? --- Online wargames? --- or the parents? Which is which?

You can only be happy that no one was hurt.

This is just a small side effect of having letting anyone have weapons - fortunately no other folks were killed.

Only my - it matters little who has a licence for firearms. They fact that they have them or can possess them quickly is a problem. Everyone *could*, at some time in their lives go thru a looney period - and if they have arms available, hell knows what the result can be.

It's easy to blame the shooters, (sure they are the immediate target for blame), tho there is usually a background story. Some simply have a mental problem, others have been abused for years and seeking revenge, - who knows what the story is behind this young lad who allegedly planned this for some time, - but there sure as hell is a story behind that.

Another factor in this specific case is how the hell did he access an assault weapon in the first instance? Where are the parents?

Bottom line - you get the society your create and there can be good and bad from that. There is a cost for the bad, and the whole society usually have a role in the responsibility for the bad.

what the fuck is wrong with kids today...and their parents for that matter???

Republicans are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Anything to push the 'bad news' off the front pages.

This is what happens when you stick kids in buildings all day

unbelievable.

i wonder if he got picked on and tormented everday.. or if he had pre-existing mental problems..

great what kids are up to today

Gawd Bless America!

That's always the first thing I wonder as well, sadly...

Please provide data to back up your statement. There are 70 million guns in the USA, if the owners went looney at some time during their lives, I'd like to see your data on it. There would be alot of dead motherfuckers.

Let's see why it's easy to blame the shooters... A GUN DOES NOT FIRE ITSELF. I'm tired of reading about abuse here, seeking revenge there, it's a scapegoat for responsiblity, in this case, this boy's parents.


On this issue, we agree.


Stop trying to offset responsiblity. It is not my fault this kid's parents could not control their kid.

A responsible gun owner in the United States, namely Florida does not go off shooting in schools. You have twice as much chance being attacked fatally by an aligator in florida, than being shot by a Concealed Licensed Firearm Owner.

Anthony, stand answer: If the parents didn't have a gun to start with, the issue of responsiblity wouldn't even come up.

I don't worry about you, licensed concealed carrier, I worry about the guy who stole your guy, or the kid the borrowed it out of your holster or the thirty seven other people that have gun and don't have a license for them. Redo your stats based on chance of getting shot overall... not just from licensed weapons, and the numbers are completely different.

Looks like we'll be seeing a lot more school shootings in the future. Seems to be the trend.

You make my point for me Alex. What most of non USA people fail to take into consideration that we are a GUN CULTURE NATION. From the very beginning or our country's birth.

Firearms in the USA are NOT going away. This child should be punished as an adult for what he has done. If the firearm was from his parent's collection, they should be punished, stripped of their rights to own a firearm.

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the parents should be sent to jail. and the kid should be shot infront of them. enough of this "it was the media" bullshit.

There are approx 11,500 deaths by firearms each year in the US - many times more than all other recorded countries in total. (The data on this is widely recorded.) On child deaths alone, there are approx 3500 for a country that, for example, has a population twice that of Japan. How many child deaths occur in Japan as a result of firearms each year? None.

Sure... keep hearing the arguement that a gun does not fire itself - people fire them. Following that thread, it suggests an element of people, at some time or other don't need to be in possession of firearms - they are out of control.

Agree totally that parents bear a responsibilty - they are often the first in the firing line for condemnation when an incident occurs. However anyone, whether a child or otherwise, can obtain a weapon if they so wish - and for whatever legitimate or otherwise purpose. Bottom line - live with a gun culture and pay the price - tho under these circumstances there can also be more positive results in the fact that a gun is a method of protection. It's almost a vicious circle.

If it is elected to have a gun culture - a society does pay a price for that. It's a very simple issue. No person on this planet can be assured of being "responsible" in the handling of weapons thru the timescale they may possess a weapon. Florida is no different to anywhere else. There is every chance a school shooting can happen in Florida - just wait a few weeks.

Another indicator of assessibility of guns to children - one survey of around 3000 children across the US resulted in findings that 60ish percent could access a weapon in a short time if they so wished. This suggests there is a core underlying problem??

Overall.. if folks have guns, they may use them - for whatever purpose. In a way it's like purveying the concept of "national security" when, in reality, it will not stop any determined attacker.

without reading much comments, and reading something along the lines of "Whos to blame?" lets review

guns available to anyone now days...
nerdy kids in school getting picked on all the time...
jock kids who think they are cool so they pick....
nerdy kid gets dads gun....
goes in to blow the brains out of the jock kids for making his life a living hell since school started

yup...

I would love to see your source where there are more deaths due to firearms in the US verus the whole world. Please provide it.

You seem to sidetrack again that the rest of the world's countries are not GUN CULTURES. Why do you try to argue a point about the lower suicide rates of the USA (Gun Culture), versus one that does not (Japan)?

But arguments can be structured any way.

The National Safety Council put out this report:

The chances in my lifetime living in the United States of dying...

Assault with Firearm 1 in 222
Passenger in a car 1 in 237

My chances go up surviving an assault with a firearm, as I am armed, but does not changed with riding in a car. Let's ban cars!


You are relying on the lowest common denominator that people are idiots. I conceede that there are those that can be looked at such, but your generalization is akin to racism, as it broadly paints that all Americans who legally own firearms can be looked down as an idiot.

It is responsiblity, plain and simple.

Excellent point, I cannot argue this.

You almost had a point here about a gun culture...

How do you explain this then? Canada does not have a gun culture, and it is illegal to own certain weapons, and heavily tracked.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

Florida is different, and if you bothered to look at stats for the state you would know that crime is down, assaults and rapes are down, to coincided funny enough with Concealed Weapons Permits.

Please provide link to data. A survey does not take into account of actual accesablity. My kids can say they can get to a gun rather quickly. If I unlock my safe, and give it to them.


Absolutely. As 9/11/2001 has shown, that if someone wants to kill people, they will find a way.

One of the best debates on Guns Pro/Con I've had on GFY ever. Thank you!

I read this and my jaw dropped!! I used to live outside of Joplin in a much smaller town. I always assumed that things like this only happened in large cities, but I guess it can happen anywhere. I still have so many friends there, and I hope everyone is OK and uneffected by this.
Maybe it's just me, but isn't there just way too many of these damn shootings going on recently? Why aren't the schools really reacting to this and changing rules and regulations to make it harder for this to happen! I hope this "trend" ends quickly!

thats fucked up

atleast nobody died!

Wow thats not to far from me..

wow.. an AK47, holy shit.... he wanted to get to the point...

It's the porn that does this to them.. didn't you know?

Just a quick note, nobody legally sells automatic firearms. Just because it was an AK-47, it was sold semi automatic and would remain so unless it was tampered with. Automatic aka machine guns have been that way for a shit load of time.

So many wasted young lives these past days..

good thing nobody died!

probably one of the clowns on this board...

I'm just glad I'm not in highschool anymore. If I was in school still. It seems to me I would have a better chance of being killed a school shooting then I would die from: crashing my speedboat, drowning, an auto accident, plane crash or alchohol poisoning.

Sheesh.. thats a long reply OK.. will try..

These stats are basically of what were described as "industrialized countries" (don't include places like the Middle East). But the US takes the lead in firearms deaths overall (even allowing for pro rata populations). The example of Japan is the extreme, (again refers to child deaths), where there were none. Even the rate for adults deaths is low and normally in the 20's/per annum.

There are stats all over the net, - mainly based on CDC, FBI or DOJ data (tho when using comparisons with other countries, allow margin of error since the laws and methods of recording offenses can vary. In fact it's almost impossible to do exact comparisons with other nations on any crime stats)... Here's a quick stat - tho only of handguns in relation to murders..

http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

Of these 19 Japanese deaths - none were children. The UK records only 54 deaths, but that scenario is currently showing an upwards trend.


I never referred to suicide gun deaths - primarily focussed on child deaths, tho, just realized, US gun sucide deaths appear to be significant.

Sure.. "death-by-car" prob is more than by gun, but the issue is about guns - not cars We could debate the purveying of overdoses of meds can cause more intended/unintended deaths than guns (they prob do!)


Not really the lowest common denominator - it's the same the world over. Bottom line... irrespective of where people are from, and nothing to do with racism or much else - load them up with guns and they will shoot themselves - either intentionally, by accident or, in the case of school shootings, children can access them and kill others. No need to even label a nation as one that has a "gun culture" - it would most likely be the same anywhere.

A couple of odd stats stand out - eg Switzerland where almost every household has a weapon, but gun deaths (pro rata population) are so low that records can be counted on one or two hands. (This may be attributed to gun training where males apparently serve in a "home defense" org as a matter of course - but who knows)


Hang on - I'll get back to this item asap (need to disappear for a short while)


Sure... if you unlock the safe. Try this stat about the accessability of guns re children which may be a clue...

http://www.ichv.org/kidsandguns.htm

Gotta go in a min.. but will give another personal example. Was offered firearms training by a US govt officer who in an earlier life was a firearms instructor. The basics were explained - then the background. She was of an opinion that unless an individual undertook a "real" firearms training, any weapon was more likely to be used against the gun owner. This is after having witnessed more than enough SOC's anyone would want to witness in a lifetime. Her opinion may be biased - who knows, (and may well be simply because she saw the "other side" only), but something to think about.

The same govt officer is oddly is support of having weapons, not just to enable her to do a job, but generally (as long as the weapon remains secured, the owner has a training in it's use, and not treated as a macho toy.)

Even with law enforcement - silly stuff happens. One officer managed to shoot himself, not once, but twice in the left portion of his body (DUH??? )

Another quick item... The country where we operate has taken a policy of destroying as many guns as possible (cutting them up) - these guns were either recovered from illegal possession or where folks simply wanted to hand them in for destruction. They are also destroying any unnecessary weapons currently in government use and implementing strict customs controls on all imported weapons. The philosophy is that the less guns in circulation - the less gun deaths. (Not that there was a crisis in gun deaths in the first instance).

Will get back to your Canadian and Florida point shortly