Conservative U.S. Politicians Want Adult Sites Forced into .XXX

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  • Mr.Fiction
    Confirmed User
    • Feb 2002
    • 9484

    #1

    Conservative U.S. Politicians Want Adult Sites Forced into .XXX

    At a hearing a few months later, Rep Fred Upton demanded to know why ICANN didn't approve .xxx "as a means of protecting our kids from the awful, awful filth, which is sometimes widespread on the internet". Sen Joseph Lieberman complained to a federal commission that .xxx was necessary to force adult webmasters to "abide by the same standard as the proprietor of an X-rated movie theatre".

    http://networks.silicon.com/webwatch...9130895,00.htm

    Right wing Republicans and right wing Democrats will come together to make sure that .xxx becomes a nightmare for adult webmasters. The quotes above are from a few years ago, but they will be ready to attack as soon as .xxx is in place.

    Don't forget that people claiming to represent our own industry sold us out so they could make money on the deal.
    Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU | Free Speech Coalition | EFF | IMPA
  • Mr.Fiction
    Confirmed User
    • Feb 2002
    • 9484

    #2
    It also says in the article that the ACLU has already voiced concerns about the free speech issues of .xxx.

    If you aren't an ACLU member, now would be a good time to join. You may not agree with everything they do, but they strongly support free speech.
    Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU | Free Speech Coalition | EFF | IMPA

    Comment

    • sixxxthsense
      Confirmed User
      • Aug 2004
      • 2419

      #3
      been posted lots of times already look around

      Comment

      • pstation
        Confirmed User
        • Jul 2003
        • 1135

        #4
        .xxx is a good idea, i dont see what all the fuss is about

        Comment

        • Theo
          HAL 9000
          • May 2001
          • 34515

          #5
          why its good idea?

          Comment

          • Mr.Fiction
            Confirmed User
            • Feb 2002
            • 9484

            #6
            Originally posted by sixxxthsense
            been posted lots of times already look around
            The fact that .xxx has been approved has been posted - now lets talk about what U.S. politicians have said about it.

            The article quoted above shows that both Republicans and conservative Democrats will support forcing adult sites in .xxx.
            Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU | Free Speech Coalition | EFF | IMPA

            Comment

            • smack
              Push Porn Like Weight.
              • Mar 2002
              • 10652

              #7
              Originally posted by pstation
              .xxx is a good idea, i dont see what all the fuss is about

              that's a fucking terrible idea. besides, it should be the responsibilty of the parents to police what the fuck their children do on the internet. i'm sick of people passing these ridiculous laws to keep kids safe. it's not the place of the government.
              Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

              Comment

              • steffie
                Confirmed User
                • May 2002
                • 2422

                #8
                he he,, I see lots of potentials here. Sex.com has to move to Sex.xxx and I buy Sex.com for pennies and ad a Church Prayer Site on there..

                oh yeah hoorayyy...

                I am now going to cry into my towel
                Partying since '96 and not going anywhere Anna's Dorm

                Comment

                • SykkBoy2
                  Jesus loves bacon
                  • Feb 2001
                  • 19969

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
                  Don't forget that people claiming to represent our own industry sold us out so they could make money on the deal.
                  exactly
                  fuck those sellouts....
                  Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

                  Comment

                  • VirtuMike
                    Confirmed User
                    • May 2002
                    • 2483

                    #10
                    These assholes have no fucking memory of who invented this internet thing in the first place.
                    Host it in AMSTERDAM at EUROTIVITY! - We also offer BACKUP SERVICES!

                    XYZZY4L

                    Comment

                    • junction
                      Confirmed User
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 2411

                      #11
                      Originally posted by pstation
                      .xxx is a good idea, i dont see what all the fuss is about
                      Take your 2 cents back so you can go buy a fucking clue.

                      Comment

                      • shermo

                        #12
                        Originally posted by SykkBoy2
                        exactly
                        fuck those sellouts....
                        My thoughts exactly. Fuck those idiots.

                        Comment

                        • Manowar
                          jellyfish  
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 71528

                          #13
                          Originally posted by pstation
                          .xxx is a good idea, i dont see what all the fuss is about
                          I haven't seen somebody be so wrong as you in ages.

                          Comment

                          • Vendot
                            Confirmed User
                            • May 2002
                            • 3376

                            #14
                            .xxx is a good idea for future adult sites and if they had introduced it from day one in the internet evolution, then it would have been fine to force people to use it for adult.

                            The problem is that it would be *impossible* to do that now, ie retroactively, because everyone is using other domains. Think about how many TM issues this would throw up, how much traffic would be lost and how much it would cost adult businesses to make the switch. Many adult business just wouldnt be able to switch. Its totally infeasible.
                            Last edited by Vendot; 06-02-2005, 02:32 AM.
                            "In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act." - George Orwell

                            Comment

                            • ProPorn
                              Registered User
                              • May 2005
                              • 41

                              #15
                              Stage 1: Force adult sites to .XXX
                              Stage 2: ISPs block .XXX

                              Comment

                              • Godsmack
                                Confirmed User
                                • Apr 2004
                                • 4525

                                #16
                                Originally posted by ProPorn
                                Stage 1: Force adult sites to .XXX
                                Stage 2: ISPs block .XXX

                                Exactly.. we are being channeled and taken care off
                                Download the much improved Free Tube Script adult/mainstream tube solution for FREE!

                                Comment

                                • David!
                                  By the wrath of Agamemnon
                                  • Apr 2004
                                  • 6501

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
                                  It also says in the article that the ACLU has already voiced concerns about the free speech issues of .xxx.

                                  If you aren't an ACLU member, now would be a good time to join. You may not agree with everything they do, but they strongly support free speech.
                                  Why is the ACLU suing the US Governement on behalf of fucking terrorists but is not doing anything about 2257 which is an aberration against our basic civil liberties, especially if you are a model?
                                  .

                                  Comment

                                  • Redrob
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Oct 2004
                                    • 4791

                                    #18
                                    No single organization can do everything. The FSC will work on the 2257 regulations as they pertain specifically to our industry. The ACLU will continue to make it harder for the US government to operate gulags like 'Gitmo.'

                                    Personally, I support both organizations.

                                    Comment

                                    • Dopy
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Feb 2001
                                      • 1572

                                      #19
                                      Porn has a history of being tucked away in the corner and rightfully so. xxx domains is a good idea and should have been implemented from the start.
                                      Porn is tangled up with just about every net subject so it?s hardly surprising why people are getting fed up with it.

                                      If it had been pushed onto a dedicated domain in the first place there would have been no argument and control of who gets to see it would have been made a lot easier.

                                      If everything was run like the internet there would be hardcore porn all over the shelves at Toy R Us

                                      Kicking internet porn up the ass is well overdue.

                                      Responsible webmasters with professional business models will survive.

                                      Comment

                                      • ADL Colin
                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                        • Feb 2001
                                        • 11929

                                        #20
                                        I remember when many adult webmasters advocated moving to .xxx as a counter to the arguments of COPA.


                                        Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY!

                                        skype = "adultdatelink"

                                        Comment

                                        • ADL Colin
                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                          • Feb 2001
                                          • 11929

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
                                          At a hearing a few months later, Rep Fred Upton demanded to know why ICANN didn't approve .xxx "as a means of protecting our kids from the awful, awful filth, which is sometimes widespread on the internet". Sen Joseph Lieberman complained to a federal commission that .xxx was necessary to force adult webmasters to "abide by the same standard as the proprietor of an X-rated movie theatre".

                                          http://networks.silicon.com/webwatch...9130895,00.htm

                                          Right wing Republicans and right wing Democrats will come together to make sure that .xxx becomes a nightmare for adult webmasters. The quotes above are from a few years ago, but they will be ready to attack as soon as .xxx is in place.

                                          Don't forget that people claiming to represent our own industry sold us out so they could make money on the deal.

                                          Funny but true. Lieberman is a "right-wing" Democrat.


                                          Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY!

                                          skype = "adultdatelink"

                                          Comment

                                          • ADL Colin
                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                            • Feb 2001
                                            • 11929

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by PussyMan
                                            Why is the ACLU suing the US Governement on behalf of fucking terrorists but is not doing anything about 2257 which is an aberration against our basic civil liberties, especially if you are a model?
                                            Great question. I have been wondering the same thing. My guess is that the ACLU does not view this as a civil liberties case. It may be unreasonable but that will probably be determined by other parties vs. the justice department.


                                            Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY!

                                            skype = "adultdatelink"

                                            Comment

                                            • tradermcduck
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Apr 2001
                                              • 2362

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by ProPorn
                                              Stage 1: Force adult sites to .XXX
                                              Stage 2: ISPs block .XXX


                                              While I agree with you on Point 1, I don't think ISPs will block .XXX domains. From my point of view surfers will have the choice to block .XXX
                                              MarkB

                                              Comment

                                              • Walrus
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • May 2005
                                                • 2150

                                                #24
                                                This .xxx talk certainly takes the cake for the most talked about subject of the day on all the Adult Webmaster forums.

                                                Comment

                                                • xiando
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Jan 2005
                                                  • 322

                                                  #25
                                                  May I say I would rather have a .cum domain than a .xxx domain?
                                                  free porn blog

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Redrob
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Oct 2004
                                                    • 4791

                                                    #26
                                                    Just wait for the Ameican Family Association, Citizens for Decency, and other Christo-nazis start pressuring Google and other search engines to block xxx domains.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Gawdy
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • May 2005
                                                      • 397

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Dopy
                                                      Porn has a history of being tucked away in the corner and rightfully so. xxx domains is a good idea and should have been implemented from the start.
                                                      Porn is tangled up with just about every net subject so it?s hardly surprising why people are getting fed up with it.

                                                      If it had been pushed onto a dedicated domain in the first place there would have been no argument and control of who gets to see it would have been made a lot easier.

                                                      If everything was run like the internet there would be hardcore porn all over the shelves at Toy R Us

                                                      Kicking internet porn up the ass is well overdue.

                                                      Responsible webmasters with professional business models will survive.
                                                      They wont survive when the bible bashers get isp's to block .xxx
                                                      hello

                                                      Comment

                                                      • ADL Colin
                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                        • Feb 2001
                                                        • 11929

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Gawdy
                                                        They wont survive when the bible bashers get isp's to block .xxx
                                                        How will they view their porn?


                                                        Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY!

                                                        skype = "adultdatelink"

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Serge Litehead
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Dec 2002
                                                          • 5190

                                                          #29
                                                          noone can force you drop your dot coms

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Dopy
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Feb 2001
                                                            • 1572

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by holograph
                                                            noone can force you drop your dot coms

                                                            You can have your .com dropped for having incorrect info , the one thing that does have a central controller

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Dopy
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Feb 2001
                                                              • 1572

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Gawdy
                                                              They wont survive when the bible bashers get isp's to block .xxx

                                                              Thats the idea of xxx domains so you can block it easily. Too much money at stake for ISP's to block everyone.

                                                              thehun.xxx would drop from 4 to 2 million visitors when the kids are gone.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Trax
                                                                [----------------------]
                                                                • Aug 2001
                                                                • 14486

                                                                #32
                                                                that would mean even more money being deported from the US

                                                                Comment

                                                                • ProPorn
                                                                  Registered User
                                                                  • May 2005
                                                                  • 41

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Dopy
                                                                  Thats the idea of xxx domains so you can block it easily. Too much money at stake for ISP's to block everyone.
                                                                  ISPs don't need porn. All jokes aside, what percentage of people pay for an internet connection soley to look at porn and nothing else? Probably about the same % of people who wouldn't have a telephone if not for 1-900 phone sex. Almost noone falls into this category. Only the most egocentric and naive adult webmasters would believe ISPs can't make just as much money without providing access to porn.

                                                                  The opposite is true. ISPs who don't block .XXX by default would suffer a loss of subscribers. A future of mandatory .XXX domains is a future of AOL-minded 'family-friendly' ISPs that may or may not allow you to turn the filter off client-side. Most married man with kids are not going to openly confront the wife to fight over the choice between a No-Porn ISP vs. a Porn-Allowed ISP. Get real.

                                                                  And then, even if the market doesn't completely self-censor, what additional burdensome regulations may the government pass to make life miserable for ISPs who do allow .XXX?

                                                                  Anyone who thinks this is a good idea isn't thinking too many moves ahead. We're being led into an ambush.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • xxxjay
                                                                    Tube groupie.
                                                                    • Aug 2002
                                                                    • 13482

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Damn - Joseph Lieberman is pretty liberal.
                                                                    http://donttellmehowtoruinmylife.com/ - http://www.jmdigitalmarketing.com/my...s-and-reviews/ - http://www.wouldyouhitit.org - http://shinyobjectreviews.com/

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Johny Traffic
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Apr 2003
                                                                      • 5461

                                                                      #35
                                                                      ISPs don't need porn. All jokes aside, what percentage of people pay for an internet connection soley to look at porn and nothing else? Probably about the same % of people who wouldn't have a telephone if not for 1-900 phone sex. Almost noone falls into this category.
                                                                      You honestly believe that? The internet is one giant wank mag. Its a pile of boring pop up hell, shit. The only reason people have the net is for porn. Your comparing it to telephone lines is so way off its un true


                                                                      hosted flv's, hosted galleries, morphing rss feeds, free content, free sites, hosted blog

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Mr.Fiction
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Feb 2002
                                                                        • 9484

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Dopy
                                                                        Porn has a history of being tucked away in the corner and rightfully so. xxx domains is a good idea and should have been implemented from the start.
                                                                        Porn is tangled up with just about every net subject so it?s hardly surprising why people are getting fed up with it.

                                                                        If it had been pushed onto a dedicated domain in the first place there would have been no argument and control of who gets to see it would have been made a lot easier.

                                                                        If everything was run like the internet there would be hardcore porn all over the shelves at Toy R Us

                                                                        Kicking internet porn up the ass is well overdue.

                                                                        Responsible webmasters with professional business models will survive.
                                                                        This reads like a post on some anti-porn board, not an adult webmaster board where people are supposed to support free speech.

                                                                        The internet is not owned by children - it was made by adults for adults. You don't let your kids play in the freeway, so don't let them play on a porn site.

                                                                        The internet is not ToysRus - it's a whole world and adult content has just as much right as anyone else to exist there.

                                                                        .xxx is an attempt to remove all adult content from the major ISPs. Reading your post, I would guess you are anti-free speech to start with.
                                                                        Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU | Free Speech Coalition | EFF | IMPA

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Drake
                                                                          Hello world!
                                                                          • Mar 2003
                                                                          • 12508

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Government intervention. Yay!

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • GatorB
                                                                            The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                            • Oct 2001
                                                                            • 18208

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by ProPorn
                                                                            Stage 1: Force adult sites to .XXX
                                                                            Stage 2: ISPs block .XXX

                                                                            Those ISP would lose business. Any ISP that blocked my access to porn would not get MY business. In fact many people wouldn't even have internet. Who in the fuck is going to pay $40 a month for access to weather.com, espn.com and cnn.com? It's the PORN that makes the cost worthwhile. Peole will just switch back to dial-up if all they can to do is e-mail and check the weather and sports scores.

                                                                            Fact is governments at the state and local have already tried to get ISPs to block porn and it failed in court.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Mr.Fiction
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Feb 2002
                                                                              • 9484

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by xxxjay
                                                                              Damn - Joseph Lieberman is pretty liberal.
                                                                              Lieberman, like some other stupid Democrats, is extremely conservative on "moral" issues. He would vote to help Bush and the right wing make porn illegal.

                                                                              Lieberman (who is actually liberal on a lot of things) sides with Bush on pro-censorship issues, unfortunately.
                                                                              Last edited by Mr.Fiction; 06-02-2005, 01:17 PM.
                                                                              Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU | Free Speech Coalition | EFF | IMPA

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • The Sultan Of Smut
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Dec 2004
                                                                                • 4325

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Dopy
                                                                                Porn has a history of being tucked away in the corner and rightfully so. xxx domains is a good idea and should have been implemented from the start.
                                                                                Porn is tangled up with just about every net subject so it?s hardly surprising why people are getting fed up with it.

                                                                                If it had been pushed onto a dedicated domain in the first place there would have been no argument and control of who gets to see it would have been made a lot easier.

                                                                                If everything was run like the internet there would be hardcore porn all over the shelves at Toy R Us

                                                                                Kicking internet porn up the ass is well overdue.

                                                                                Responsible webmasters with professional business models will survive.

                                                                                Are you for real? Did you miss the point of why the Internet was created? Obviously you did so I'll fill you in. The Internet (not ARPAnet) was created for research institutes and government agencies world wide to communicate with one another and to allow a forum for free thought; it was later expanded to colleges and universities. The Internet was the first form of truly free speech that has ever existed in recorded history.

                                                                                Governments around the world have sucessfully censored thought offline but have found that control of the public mind online has been nearly impossible.

                                                                                The Internet is not Toys 'R Us. It was not created to be a form of entertainment for your children (and in some cases a babysitter) and there is no excuse for a parent not to spend $20 on filtering software if they wish to limit what their children are exposed to online (if they can afford $1000 for a computer they can afford Cybersittter).

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • taibo
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • May 2005
                                                                                  • 3720

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  what's the big deal anyways

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • bopha
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Sep 2002
                                                                                    • 1882

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by taibo
                                                                                    what's the big deal anyways
                                                                                    Makes me think of when they moved the 'free speech' zones 5 miles away from the President's motorcade so he wouldn't have to be bothered with things he doesn't want to look at.

                                                                                    Problem is, among other things.., 'sexual education, condom instructions, child birthing info, info on STD's and sites like scarlet teen would be lumped in that .xxx TLD and therefore, would also be blocked.

                                                                                    This is the administration, who preaches 100 percent abstinence and took away funding from non for profit organizations who promoted safe sex.

                                                                                    There's many things wrong with the concept, business wise also..but that's a start.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • wjxxx
                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                      • Feb 2005
                                                                                      • 4448

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by taibo
                                                                                      what's the big deal anyways
                                                                                      get a clue

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • $5 submissions
                                                                                        I help you SUCCEED
                                                                                        • Nov 2003
                                                                                        • 32189

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        If they do as crappy of a job as they did re the "time / manner" restrictions on speech exemplified by the Supreme Court's rulings on strip bar location, then the ACLU is fighting a lost cause.

                                                                                        Increasingly, the conservative-led US Supreme Court is carving a two prong approach--placing "time/manner" restrictions on speech BUT focusing on opening political and commercial speech.

                                                                                        Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
                                                                                        It also says in the article that the ACLU has already voiced concerns about the free speech issues of .xxx.

                                                                                        If you aren't an ACLU member, now would be a good time to join. You may not agree with everything they do, but they strongly support free speech.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • pornguy
                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                          • Mar 2003
                                                                                          • 62910

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          The blame of what children do in the home, will never be on the parents. It will always be on other things. Such as tv, and the internet. But they are not really worried about the children that are seeing the porn, it is more about the children that are being forced into it.
                                                                                          PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic

                                                                                          AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online!
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                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • FilthyRob
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Feb 2004
                                                                                            • 6741

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Seems like "they" won't sleep until "we" are out of biz
                                                                                            AKA - Clubsexy

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • ProPorn
                                                                                              Registered User
                                                                                              • May 2005
                                                                                              • 41

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by Johny Traffic
                                                                                              You honestly believe that? The internet is one giant wank mag. Its a pile of boring pop up hell, shit. The only reason people have the net is for porn. Your comparing it to telephone lines is so way off its un true
                                                                                              I think being immersed in the biz all the time has put blinders on you. People are not going to give up eBay or Amazon.com and all online shopping, or their political blogs, or chatrooms or message boards, or dating sites, or fan and hobby sites, or online casinos, or online video games, or VOIP, or P2P, music and movies, and everything else the internet offers just because the wife will only allow a family-friendly no-porn ISP.

                                                                                              There may be a lot of rebel pornographer types here, but most American men are pussy-whipped Yes-Dears.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • fireorange
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Jan 2005
                                                                                                • 1648

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by ProPorn
                                                                                                ISPs don't need porn. All jokes aside, what percentage of people pay for an internet connection soley to look at porn and nothing else? Probably about the same % of people who wouldn't have a telephone if not for 1-900 phone sex. Almost noone falls into this category. Only the most egocentric and naive adult webmasters would believe ISPs can't make just as much money without providing access to porn.
                                                                                                Clueless fuck

                                                                                                http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ne...or_1_in_4.html

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Scootermuze
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Dec 2001
                                                                                                  • 4513

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Wonder why they don't go after sites full of pics of people torn to shreds from accidents... Sites with pics and videos of all sorts of violence.. and videos of people being murdered...

                                                                                                  I guess this is accepted in our society.. Nothing immoral about all of this..

                                                                                                  Ohhhhh that's right.. it's porn that causes kids to kill kids .. What was I thinking??

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • ProPorn
                                                                                                    Registered User
                                                                                                    • May 2005
                                                                                                    • 41

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by fireorange
                                                                                                    Unnecessary rude. And pointless too. Yes, porn is probably the #1 use of the internet right now. But if all the bored housewives demand .XXX-blocked ISPs then familys are not going to give up their #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8 reasons for keeping the net.

                                                                                                    AOL would gain more subscribers than they would lose through a massive TV ad blitz about how they have cleaned all porn off the internet. And adult sites instantly lose tens of millions of potential customers. Then multiply that by all the other ISPs that feature "clean" as a selling point just like they use "no spam" now.

                                                                                                    All there is to argue about is how much of the population we would lose. A quarter of your sales? Half?

                                                                                                    Comment

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