Originally posted by FleshJoe2005
Well I am in the UK so it does not matter to me.
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Well I am in the UK so it does not matter to me. -
yes because they find the original prodcuer of your content and they WILL have the proper docs showing it WASN'T made in 1980. Good luck withthat.Originally posted by allanukComment
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then stop giving out bad legal advice you limey moron.Originally posted by allanukComment
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Its down to them to prove otherwise.Originally posted by L-Pink
Yes, you know its not been shot in 1980 and so do they. But they have to prove it. Thats not going to be easy, and it will cost money.
This is my point. Its not going to be easy. Its going to cost a lot. Its going to take up a lot of time.
And the result will not stop child porn, or indeed make any diffence to child porn.
In fact these twits will spend all the time chasing asfter webmasters that they will spend less time on chasing after those who do child porn.Comment
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Not if you shot the model yourself.Originally posted by GatorB
But this is just a point I am making, to show its not going to be easy to go after webmasters.Comment
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And when he doesn't send you a check? There's and old saying about friends and money. And another one about a fool and his money.Originally posted by allanuk
Hey here's a novel idea, why not just fucking comply? Seems a lot simpler than your retarded ideas.Comment
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ya, but at the same time, the 'public' has no clue what 2257 is and i highly doubt the DOJ would want to make it public. the only ones that the news of 1,000 webmasters getting shot down would be people already in this industry.Originally posted by mardigras
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Um if you have been shooting models you have had to follow these 2257 laws for about a dozen years already. Idiot!Originally posted by allanukComment
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Point is if a 100 small time webmasters got busted how many 1000's would then quit. The general public may not know or even care but WE will know if this happens.Originally posted by BabagirlsComment
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Yeah I just read this thread again and you made it abundantly clear, dunno how I could have missedOriginally posted by allanuk
BUT... US adult webmasters are in a deep shit situation, my word.
Looks like we're going back to text link lists or some such form, real soon now.I convert male sextoy traffic at ~1:30!!!
Send me your traffic and we'll split 50-50.
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thats what i said.Originally posted by GatorB
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You still seems to think this is about CP. Get off that already... Its about shrinking the US porn industry, getting webmasters out of the biz, and stopping piracy, all in one nice big bang.Originally posted by allanuk
If the regulation stands as its written, it *will* accomplish those goals.I convert male sextoy traffic at ~1:30!!!
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The way I see it is this.
1. Its not going to be easy to go through all the paperwork and find each model. If the model has moved or worse still denies modelling (say she is a teacher).
2. Those who make DVD porn will have to pull the stock from the shelves if they shot a non USA model.
3. All this time hunting down webmasters for silly paperwork, could be spent actually hunting down those who do child porn.
4. Some webmasters may go underground. No I do not mean doing child porn, but simply not paying tax and moving the sites outside the USA and changing the details so when you do a whois, it gives a non USA address. OK, its still possible to trace it back to the USA webmaster, but much harder. And so less tax will be paid too.
5. Some models may not want to model anymore, as they will not want the thought of years later when they have given up modelling, to have a nice chap knock on there door, asking her husband if the porn star is in, to check her details.
6. Its going to be unfair in business if non USA webmasters can get away with stuff USA webmasters cannot.Comment
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Lets see:Originally posted by GatorB
* You cant use overseas content because the producer will give you the middle finger, so thats out
* You cant use US produced content if it doesnt come with a copy of every model's driver license and home address, good luck getting that out of sponsors.
* The rules are written in such a way that you have to hire a database programmer to implement all of the various cross indexes they require
Basically if you comply you're fucked if you dont you're fucked, conclusion --> you're fucked
I convert male sextoy traffic at ~1:30!!!
Send me your traffic and we'll split 50-50.
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Originally posted by FleshJoe2005
Basically if you comply you're fucked if you dont you're fucked, conclusion --> you're fucked
Only for USA webmasters.Comment
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OK so sounds like you agree with me this is not about CP, its about fucking the US porn industry.Originally posted by allanukI convert male sextoy traffic at ~1:30!!!
Send me your traffic and we'll split 50-50.
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All I am saying is that SOME webmasters will get around it.Originally posted by GatorB
Its up to you at the end of the day.
I would not be surprised if some hosts not only set up outside the USA, but for a % would have in in there name, and simply send you a check.
There will be lots of attempts to get around this.
All will make life harder for those who prosecute.Comment
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Yes I do, if you read my posts I have said this.Originally posted by FleshJoe2005
The only reason I point out CP is that some webmasters have said it was about CP.
The history of porn in the USA shows many many attempts to stop porn, and all have failed.
I am not up-to-date with USA law, but from what I remember porn has never been legalised in the USA, its just that its not illegal (due to the freedom of speech act).Comment
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Originally posted by allanuk
Have you EVER been involved in a DOJ investigation? While they are wading through the mountains of paperwork, they freeze your fucking assets, close your doors and you're shut down until otherwise. I know, I know, you're in the UK, it doesn't affect you....or maybe it does...what if the DOJ is going through an affiliate list....your site comes up as sending traffic to that site and there is a missing ID for a specific model...now they go to your local authorities and say "this guy may be involved in a child porn investigation we're doing here." Do you really think your local authorities aren't going to investigate you?
I've worked for a company that had a nasty DOJ investiagtion and let me tell you, it fucking sucks and the company was in the RIGHT, but everyone was broke by the time they proved they were right.
If someone is STUPID enough to lie to these guys, they will get fucked harder then they could ever imagine...they don't like extra work or paperwork, but love to fuck around on YOUR time act like they are working.
Granted, this is a worst case scenario, but I can't think of anyone who wants to even go through this no matter how right they are or think they are. So, it's best for US-based companies to not stick out or bring in any unwanted attention of the authorities. Just surfing some of the bigger TGP sites, it's easy to see companies that aren't even in compliance with CURRENT regulations.Comment
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Why would they have to say anything about 2257? On the news 1000 porn slingers violating US laws were shut down. Most people would relate that to the assholes spamming their e-mail.Originally posted by Babagirls.Comment
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They aren't going to be looking for themodels. They are checking to see if YOU have the proper paperwork. If your paperwork says she's 18 then that's it. You still don't get it. They know porn models are over 18. They are hoping to bust webmasters for non-compliance. And thus scaring the rest out of business.Originally posted by allanuk
Or terrorists3. All this time hunting down webmasters for silly paperwork, could be spent actually hunting down those who do child porn.
Most US webmastera r part time guys that make less $1000 a month. They aren't going to move out of the US. The bigger guys are complying and are not going to take your retraded advice.4. Some webmasters may go underground. No I do not mean doing child porn, but simply not paying tax and moving the sites outside the USA and changing the details so when you do a whois, it gives a non USA address. OK, its still possible to trace it back to the USA webmaster, but much harder. And so less tax will be paid too.
Man you are stupid. Did you even read the regs. The feds are not going to go after models. And trust me if a girl did porn and if hubby finds out it won't be because of some US federal agent.5. Some models may not want to model anymore, as they will not want the thought of years later when they have given up modelling, to have a nice chap knock on there door, asking her husband if the porn star is in, to check her details.
Non-US webmaster are going to be in for a bit of a shock if they think they can simply get away with non-compliance if they still sell their stuff to the US market. That's assuming the DOJ even gets serious and actually checks for compliance.6. Its going to be unfair in business if non USA webmasters can get away with stuff USA webmasters cannot.Comment
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This vagueness is why I'm putting my new project on hold until either an injunction is reached, or the laws are clarified in court. If that looks not to happen swiftly, I'll make the decision on how to comply then.Comment
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First of all the regs don't say you have to have her home address. They want a picture of her and a date of birth on an official goverment document. And if a sponsor is giving me free content they HAVE to give me the proper docs. Otherwise THEY are breaking the law. Try reading the regs.Originally posted by FleshJoe2005
No you don't. Ever heard of a spreadsheet?* The rules are written in such a way that you have to hire a database programmer to implement all of the various cross indexes they requireComment
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If their host, registrar, and sponsor/payment processor are all out of the US, there is nothing the DOJ can do. Besides, there will be plenty of non-compliant US webmasters who make easy targets of themselves, once the wave of enforcement begins.Originally posted by GatorBComment
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Are you daft? We are talking about a government that has spent billions in the last decade prosecuting marijuana... most cases minor possession .Originally posted by allanukThe only thing you've said in this thread that makes sense.Originally posted by allanuk.Comment
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To make it have any point, you would need to contact at least some models to ensure that the ID is not fake.Originally posted by GatorB
Just because they are not going to seek the models now, does not mean later they will not.
This is for several reasons.
1. To ensure the ID is not faked (by the webmaster).
2. To ensure that the model was not on drugs or forced into the shoot.
3. To ensure the model did not fake the ID.Comment
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As some here point out all the DOJ has to say to another government is that so and so in their country MAY be involved in CP. Other countries DO in fact help the US in CP investigations. Of course the US government would never ever LIE about something to get it's way would it?Originally posted by kernelpanicComment
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No I am not being daft.Originally posted by mardigras
Its down to them to prove your guilt.Comment
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Oh, I have no doubt that the DOJ can get almost any adult site shut down, whether through legal means, or continued harassment.Originally posted by GatorB
The point behind my statement is that non-US webmasters are much, much harder to take down for the DOJ, especially if that site is fully compliant with its country's laws. Why would the DOJ waste all the effort of international prosecution/harassment, when there will be plenty of noncompliant Americans to arrest.Comment
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Did you even read the regs? Obviously not. The DOJ has said that producers are not required to make sure the models IDs are real or if she is lying. They are not responsible if she does.Originally posted by allanuk
Man quit talking about shit you have ZERO clue as to what you are saying. try reading the regs FIRST before mouthing off.Comment
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Originally posted by kernelpanic
Well the hun get 4 million visits a day and don't think the DOJ wouldn't love to say they brought down the world biggest porn site.Comment
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Keep kidding yourselfOriginally posted by allanuk
You are talking about a government that has held thousands of "enemy combatants" for 4 years without allowing them a lawyer or ever charging them with any actual crime..Comment
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Yes prove it in COURT. Which means you have to be ARRESTED, have you name in the paper and then spend huge amounts of money on lawyers FIRST.Originally posted by allanukComment
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It wouldn't be called the world's biggest porn site. That wouldn't set right with Joe Average. It would be touted as a major porn network that included beastiality.Originally posted by GatorB.Comment
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Oh now he's gonna say he's a limey and none of this applies to him... Its circularOriginally posted by GatorB
AllanUk I saved you some time by saying it for you
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Its just gone 2am in the UK. I must go to bed.
So this will be last post for a few hours.
Having looked at the history of porn in the USA, there have been many daft ways to stop porn. The new law is clever that its been done in such a way to make it look as if its to protect children. When in fact its to close down porn in the USA.
Will it stop at this law? Well of course not. If thislaw works, then after a few years they will bring in a bit more, then a bit more.
In the end porn could be shut down, by simply making it harder to do.
This is why I hope this law will fail.
But if it does succeed, I would expect that porn in the USA will be coming to an end, except possibly by a few (very very few) big firms.Comment
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A few thoughts after reading all of this , if your over seas I highly doubt there will be a knock on your door . I think they are going to want big headlines because they are doing this all for the christian right. I think they will use 2257 as a excuse to get in the door of people they want to go after for obscenity. Too much time and work to go after people for clerical errors . Also I think the people that use drugs its time to become drug free. You dont want them coming to your house , your in compliance but they find a roach in the ashtray.Comment
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That UK guy is just a retarded turd and doesn't know WTF he is talking about. I hope no American webmasters take his advice.
Anyways it'snot even about getting busted for 2257that the average American webmaster shouldbe worried about. Now that YOUR name and YOUR adress has to be listed as the "custodian of records" The DOJ can notify LOCAL DAs in your area that you run a website that may be obscene and thus you get bust for obscenity. And even if that never happens if some Jesus freaks in your town find out about your website ansd thus about you they can sure harrass you and post flyers and signs all over town about how you are the evil pornographer how you want to abuse their children.Comment
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I'm sure they would, but that means nothing for 99.99% of the Joe webmasters out there who are following all the laws of the countries in which they reside.Originally posted by GatorBComment
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...wtf crazy double postComment
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It's not kitchen heat?Originally posted by allanuk
Nothing clever nor new, "protect the children" has been used for years in attempts to draft law.Originally posted by allanukP-a-t-r-i-o-t...A-c-tOriginally posted by allanukNope. Porn for profit might be disrupted on a case by case basis.Originally posted by allanukIt will only fail if enough bad or backlash happens from it. Who in your daily life not webmaster related have you told about the situation? Debating webmasters is "preaching to the choir".Originally posted by allanukAnd the kiddies will be sharing their content via P2POriginally posted by allanuk
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Many "Jesus freaks" are cool as hell (pardon the punOriginally posted by GatorB). More people are "activist" for political desires than religious... it's just easy to sweep misguided sheeple with religious dogma into your numbers. 
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Its amazing how hyprocritical some of the religious people can be. The example that still sticks into my mind is that of a 20 yr old "Christian" who got confrontational with me back in February about the fact that I won't turn down adult-oriented sites for coding/hosting services, and how he would always try to provoke me into the discussions of the evils of pornography.Originally posted by mardigrasMany "Jesus freaks" are cool as hell (pardon the pun). More people are "activist" for political desires than religious... it's just easy to sweep misguided sheeple with religious dogma into your numbers.
Yet he had no problem fucking his 16yr old girlfriend every other day and making it known that he was getting some underaged ass (age of consent is 16 here)
"Christians"
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Nothing wrong with Christians, it's hypocrites that's fucked upOriginally posted by kernelpanic
"Christians"
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There's only 1 Michael Jackson and thousands of adult webmasters... and I think there's a bit of a difference between child molestation and pornagraphy....Originally posted by mardigrasAnd a prosecutor would never go through all that paperwork if they really wanted a conviction.
Took Tom Sneddon over a decade to get Michael Jackson. I bet he would have spent another decade and probably will if for some reason he failed this time. You guys that want to blow off the capabilities and desires of the law fail to take into consideration the activism factor.Comment
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Originally posted by mardigrasMany "Jesus freaks" are cool as hell (pardon the pun). More people are "activist" for political desires than religious... it's just easy to sweep misguided sheeple with religious dogma into your numbers.
By Jesus freaks I mean zealots. And I think it's obvious I wasn't refering to ALL Christians.Comment
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Hence the quotes.Originally posted by mardigrasNothing wrong with Christians, it's hypocrites that's fucked up
Mainstream christians really need to stand up and renouce these zealots, otherwise the appearance that they speak on behalf of all christians will stand.Comment
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For argument sake, let's assume that the new 2257 regs withstand all injunctions and are enforced.
Just *WHO* will be enforcing these regs? In other words:
1)Who scans the sites to "choose" the ones they are going to investigate?
2)Who then makes the physical visit to the location to see the documentation?
3)Who then decides if the documents are in order?
4)If it is decided they are not in order, WHO takes the webmaster to court?
5)Who prosecutes the cases..literally WHO will be the prosecutors presenting the government's case?
6)Finally..HOW will this all be paid for?
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That will all be handled by the DOJ. Though I suspect they could get the FBI and local law enforcement involved if need be.Originally posted by Centurion
The American taxpayer of course. How ironic that you may be funding your own prosecution.6)Finally..HOW will this all be paid for?Comment
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1) DOJ under the direction of some national porn czar.Originally posted by Centurion
2) Federal agents
3) Federal agents/US District Attorney
4) US District Attorney
5) US District Attorney
6) Hardworking taxpayersComment
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