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Snake Doctor

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#1

If you're an affiliate and want 2257 documents

05-31-2005, 09:17 AM

If you want your sponsors to provide you with Model ID's and releases that have sensitive personal information then I think you should do the same.

If an affiliate wants Model ID's then they should have to send the sponsor a copy of their government issued ID, along with a verifiable physical address where the records will be kept (no PO Boxes) a phone number and a signed release stating that they will never divulge the information to anyone other than a government agency and never use the information to contact the models in any way, shape, or form.
Also I think a simple criminal background check should be run on this information to make sure we're not sending out info to people with histories of stalking, sex crimes, etc.

If the model has to give up her privacy then so does the affiliate. If the model ends up being stalked, harrassed, or whatever, we'll all have a nice, neat little database of all the people who had her contact info for the police to go through.

This should cut down on the "stalkers" who would sign up for an affiliate program just to get their hands on a model's info.

What do you think? Just an idea I'm throwing out there.

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AaronM

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#2

05-31-2005, 09:20 AM

I think it's a good idea. Not sure how practical or legal it is but it's worth looking into.
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TheSenator

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#3

05-31-2005, 09:22 AM

I have no problem sending a reputable affiliate personal info. Don't affiliates keep SS or EIN already? A phone interview is cool too.

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chadglni

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#4

05-31-2005, 09:23 AM

Well, you're a damned fool if you think I'm giving anybody MY shit. Using the scenario you mentioned above I would have to worry about dealing with cops if some crazy stalked your models. Haha no thanks bud. Find another affiliate.

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opflix

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#5

05-31-2005, 09:26 AM

@ background checks... man, this industry was sooo much easier when we all knew one another. the anonymous sig whores & fly-by night porn peddlers have ruined it... unfortunately this is basically another step towards the death of the "little" affiliate. legit businesses aren't gonna be sendin' this shit out to just anybody... i know i won't.

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TheSenator

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#6

05-31-2005, 09:28 AM

Hopefully, reputable affiliates will get rid of all anon. webmasters that ruin the business.

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chadglni

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#7

05-31-2005, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by opflix

@ background checks... man, this industry was sooo much easier when we all knew one another. the anonymous sig whores & fly-by night porn peddlers have ruined it... unfortunately this is basically another step towards the death of the "little" affiliate. legit businesses aren't gonna be sendin' this shit out to just anybody... i know i won't.

..

Those "little affiliates" you speak of will find something else to do with their traffic.

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Tom_PM

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#8

05-31-2005, 09:29 AM

Sponsors already have the personal info.. Enough to pay people. The signed statement is a fine idea in my opinion, but the rest is kinda silly.
You should also already have your true and accurate information in your WHOIS records as well. Also, affiliates using content that falls under 2257 have to post their physical address on their websites. How about a background check on surfers? lol

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dready

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#9

05-31-2005, 09:29 AM

Sounds like a good idea Lenny.

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opflix

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#10

05-31-2005, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by chadglni

Those "little affiliates" you speak of will find something else to do with their traffic.

look, don't get mad @ me... i'm just pointing out the obvious. if you have a reason to hide or not be a legit biz, why would i feel comfortable sending you this sensitive data? + this subject has been covered.... don't act like u haven't been here for THAT discussion

*y do people h8 getting even small doses of reality?

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chadglni

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#11

05-31-2005, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by opflix

look, don't get mad @ me... i'm just pointing out the obvious. if you have a reason to hide or not be a legit biz, why would i feel comfortable sending you this sensitive data? + this subject has been covered.... don't act like u haven't been here for THAT discussion

*y do people h8 getting even small doses of reality?

..

Here's your dose of reality. The only person that will end up with less money over it is YOU THE PROGRAM OWNER. Program owners fight for traffic for a damn good reason, they want it. If you don't want it why do you have an affiliate program to begin with?

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AaronM

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#12

05-31-2005, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by TheSenator

Hopefully, reputable affiliates will get rid of all anon. webmasters that ruin the business.

And what about the "reputable" affiliate program owners that have pulled crooked shit over the years which contributed to Visa's crackdown?

Did people stand up and get rid of them too? OR.....Do people continue to send those programs traffic every day because even though they are ripping off surfers AND affiliates, at least your affiliate checks are bigger than if you were pushing a lesser program.

This industry is overrun with greed. Greed has caused the influx of people who do things wrong and as long as that greed goes unchecked.....These problems will never go away.
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TheSenator

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#13

05-31-2005, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by AaronM

This industry is overrun with greed. Greed has caused the influx of people who do things wrong and as long as that greed goes unchecked.....These problems will never go away.

The sad part is that you can put this statement on any industry.

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opflix

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#14

05-31-2005, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by chadglni

Here's your dose of reality. The only person that will end up with less money over it is YOU THE PROGRAM OWNER. Program owners fight for traffic for a damn good reason, they want it. If you don't want it why do you have an affiliate program to begin with?

do u really think these affiliate programs will die if they lose the bottom 3/4 of their affililates? they live & die off the top 50 or so.... those lil cats are cool, but sorry.... they aren't generating enough revenue to warrant the risk you are taking by giving them this data. you think EVERY paysite NEEDS an affiliate program to survive? i personally would prefer to run a site that DIDN'T depend on that to stay in biz.

maybe you're a "little affiliate" & you're taking offense by this... but the reality is that the job done by those guys can be and will be outsourced in the coming years, releasing THE PROGRAM OWNER of the concern about this releasing data bullshit. you shoot some content of a girl & then come back & tell me you'll feel comfortable giving her private shit out.

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chadglni

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#15

05-31-2005, 09:40 AM

Good luck if you own a program.

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Snake Doctor

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#16

05-31-2005, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by PR_Tom

Sponsors already have the personal info.. Enough to pay people. The signed statement is a fine idea in my opinion, but the rest is kinda silly.

Not really.
How many russian cheaters have been caught using mail forwarding services to sign up for programs because their country wasn't allowed by the sponsor, sent a bunch of fraudulent signups and then disappeared?

All the sponsor needs to pay you is a name to make out the check to and a po box to mail it to.
This digs a little deeper than that.

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opflix

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#17

05-31-2005, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by chadglni

Good luck if you own a program.

like it or not, thats the way it is, kid... "little affiliates" WILL have to find a new job & outsourcing has been an issue facing them since all these new outsourcing companies dropped within the past year or 2. as they become more fluid, professional & can provide a wide range of services @ competitive prices - give me a reason y a program owner wouldn't pay THEM to do what YOU do but for LESS. its a business decision program owners WILL MAKE but y let it out of the bag & lose your loyalty now?... DOSE OF REALITY DEALT. now suck it up.

...

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Snake Doctor

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#18

05-31-2005, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by AaronM

I think it's a good idea. Not sure how practical or legal it is but it's worth looking into.

Well it's something I just thought of an hour ago.....so of course there are details that need to be worked out, but that's why I brought it up for discussion.

As for the legal aspect, the comments put out by the DOJ did say that if a primary producer doesn't give records to a secondary producer then they are in violation of the regs.
However, as a primary producer (program owner) you have every right to decide which secondary producers you want to do business with. You also have the right to terminate that business relationship at any time for any (or no) reason.

So if they don't want to play by the program's rules, then they're out and they have to take any content previously given to them down, and the sponsor is under no obligation to send out the documents.

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chadglni

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#19

05-31-2005, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by opflix

like it or not, thats the way it is, kid... "little affiliates" WILL have to find a new job & outsourcing has been an issue facing them since all these new outsourcing companies dropped within the past year or 2. as they become more fluid, professional & can provide a wide range of services @ competitive prices - give me a reason y a program owner wouldn't pay THEM to do what YOU do but for LESS. its a business decision program owners WILL MAKE but y let it out of the bag & lose your loyalty now?... DOSE OF REALITY DEALT. now suck it up.

...

You are a fucking idiot, end of story. First of all, I'm in Canada. Second of all, I don't have anything explicit on my sites and never have. You can quit acting like you're talking down to me with your bullshit. Even if I did, I wouldn't have to "find a new job" I would simply not use your poor excuse for a sponsor program.

That being said, program owners will never use only outsourcing to generate traffic. You think all of these sponsor programs are going to give out their traffic sources to an outsourcing company freely? Ahahaha, smoke another rock and try again. Your precious traffic sources would be overrun in record time and you'd be stuck twiddling your thumbs.

Have a nice day, idiot.

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opflix

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#20

05-31-2005, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Lenny2

However, as a primary producer (program owner) you have every right to decide which secondary producers you want to do business with. You also have the right to terminate that business relationship at any time for any (or no) reason.

interesting point, different way of putting it but i think we're on the same page

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opflix

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#21

05-31-2005, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by chadglni

You are a fucking idiot, end of story. First of all, I'm in Canada. Second of all, I don't have anything explicit on my sites and never have. You can quit acting like you're talking down to me with your bullshit. Even if I did, I wouldn't have to "find a new job" I would simply not use your poor excuse for a sponsor program.

That being said, program owners will never use only outsourcing to generate traffic. You think all of these sponsor programs are going to give out their traffic sources to an outsourcing company freely? Ahahaha, smoke another rock and try again. Your precious traffic sources would be overrun in record time and you'd be stuck twiddling your thumbs.

Have a nice day, idiot.

oh my, must we go to name calling? that certainly isn't very professional!

...

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chadglni

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#22

05-31-2005, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Well it's something I just thought of an hour ago.....so of course there are details that need to be worked out, but that's why I brought it up for discussion.

As for the legal aspect, the comments put out by the DOJ did say that if a primary producer doesn't give records to a secondary producer then they are in violation of the regs.
However, as a primary producer (program owner) you have every right to decide which secondary producers you want to do business with. You also have the right to terminate that business relationship at any time for any (or no) reason.

So if they don't want to play by the program's rules, then they're out and they have to take any content previously given to them down, and the sponsor is under no obligation to send out the documents.

So what about all of your current affiliates that are using your content right now? Do they have picture ID's of each model provided by you? Because they have to keep it on record for 7 years you still need to send it to them or you are violating the regulations.

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=227704

Walters adds, ?Hopefully the courts will act before 30 days expire, but those parts of the regulations that don?t specifically say ?June 23, 2005,? can take effect immediately. As a practical matter, any attempt to start enforcement early would make them look overzealous ? sort of a ?damn the torpedoes? attitude.? Still, he?s not entirely sure Justice views that attitude as a bad one.

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