Assuming that Americans would be more likely to chargeback non-US transactions simply because they see on their credit card statement that it's a non-US company, then how is it that Verotel is still in business? What about CCBill EU? Why is Paycom/Epoch setting up a processor in the EU?
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I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded. -
The crap in the 1st post meant this thread was always going to go downhill quickly which is a shame as the topic is kind of interesting if you can get past the BS.
So...my only contribution in this. There's already some very well, established, very profitable non-US based sponsors with non-US billing and the surfers really don't give a flying fuck as has been pointed out. Some people seem very confused about how intelligent and bothered about who they pay for their porn most surfers are.Ignorance is never bliss.
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Originally posted by GatorB
I know what your trying to say, its just that sometimes it gets a bit wrapped up in the excitement LOLComment
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What you drive, or live in has no bearing on the fact that a US webmaster has to put his ass on the line by putting up anyone's content. Regardless of country..US included.Originally posted by Nydahlyes you are right - its the question of trust.But its nothing new for me - I have always to deal with the fact that US people don't trust anybody outside US too much - specialy former Soviet union satelites.
Anyway mostly its true that I drive better car , have larger house , make more money and at VERY FIRST I do far more honest biz then the most of those guys saying that they can't trust us just cause we are living in this location.
so once more - nothing new for me , still the same situation
thnx for input bro
Get it?
I would want to know in these trying times with such ambiguity in these new regs that any content provider I am purchasing content from is following them 100% all T's crossed, all I's dotted...no ifs ands or buts.
You can get your panties in a wad because someone in the US doesn't trust you...but put the shoe on the other foot...how would you handle this situation if you were the US webmaster buying content from a "former soviet union sattellite?"For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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Because they have seen where things have headed over the last x amount of years...I'm not saying that no americans will buy through a non-us processor...what I am saying is that expect there to be a big bump in the road and not everyone is going to fare well, not everyone is going to survive.Originally posted by BRISK
US and non-US webmasters alike...this will affect some of you guys.For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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CCBILL EU
wtf are you guys making a mess of things for? there are thousands of offshore billing solutions, billing millions of US customer every day, why would that change just because of a content regulation!? get back down to earth people...Comment
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Originally posted by eroswebmaster
you are talking like eu billing is something new and never seen before... its been around forever and never been a problem, why would that change?Comment
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dramaaaaaaa! the sky is falling!Comment
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m'kayOriginally posted by f | a s h
#1 no I am not.
#2 wait and seeFor rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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wait and see what? what will this change for eu paysite owner using ccbill eu?Originally posted by eroswebmasterm'kay
#1 no I am not.
#2 wait and seeComment
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seriously eros i normal see you as a smart guy and i prefer to lurk around here, but your posts in this thread are pure nonsenseComment
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LOL point out which ones?Originally posted by f | a s h
If you think this is NOT going to have an affect on this industry...indsutry wide from top to bottom then you are clearly looking at your monitor through rose colored glasses.For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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If you followed the thread you would see how the discussion flowed to this point...I'm not going to rehash an entire thread for you.Originally posted by f | a s hFor rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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ofcourse this will have an effect, but nothing in the ways of what you're saying.. do you see ANY large adult companies worried on bit about this, be it eu or us companies? nope didn't think so...Originally posted by eroswebmasterComment
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yea i read the whole thread... billing should never have been mentionen as i kinda ruined everything and has nothing to do with the new 2257 law..Originally posted by eroswebmasterComment
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I mentioned that car , money and house cause the lot of US think that we live on the trees here.Originally posted by eroswebmaster
I said the very first think is doing honest biz.
Also yes you are right - sending money to Central Africa also doesn't sound good for me so I completaly understand.
Thanks god we have so many pretty girls here so US must buy some of our shit
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nydahl isnt worried, yet you say he should be?
lets look at that, you're a gallery designer and nydahl is a content producer, who would seem to know most about this and have the biggest effect on?Comment
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LOL yes they are worried...I know some who have been proactive started by focusing on inhouse traffic...I know of a few who would love nothing more than to abandon the entire affiliate model.Originally posted by f | a s hFor rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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This is such a long thread, I've jumped to the end to make this post.
There was another thread on this subject started by a guy from Sweden which we in the EU spoke about this subject. I have been advised that the wording here: www.saharagetsdirty.com/2257.htm is compliant with everyone. I'd like to thank Dopy for pointing out to me that even though I am willing to offer private information to the US authorities if they request it, under UK law I need the consent of the person concerned to give it to them. and I just added that part.
I am a UK resident and so I have to comply with UK laws. The US government has to recognise the laws of other countries.
AND.... Those of us outside the US use EU billing companies, due to Visa regulations, so payments are not a concern to us.Comment
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you buy content from a company not a country.. location is irrelevant, only thing that matters is if he has 2257 docsOriginally posted by eroswebmasterComment
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If you don't think it will affect him..you are naive.Originally posted by f | a s h
He will lose business either way. People will either not buy from him due to lack of trust whether it's in him or the new regs, or companies will go out of business because of the new regs decreasing the customer base.For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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dude I'm just rehashing an entire thread for you...my answers are already there.Originally posted by f | a s h
If I buy content..and in the past I have had to buy lots of content..and I'm not just a "gallery designer"....I want to know that I'm covered 100% especialy in this day and age.For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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yea we are all trying to do that, inhouse traffic is the most profitable.. what's your point? and please name a few names of all these programs you know that are worried about 2257...Originally posted by eroswebmasterComment
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eros if you're so worried why don't you quit while you're ahead? all of us running a tight ship don't worry about a thing.. these new laws will properly force the small time companies who don't know dick out of business, isn't it wonderfull
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if you're worried it means you don't have your shit together... atleast we now know you don'tOriginally posted by eroswebmaster
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Originally posted by Franck
Good point
MarkBComment
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Once again rehash time...Originally posted by f | a s h
this is my last post it's 6:30 I have not gone to bed yet.
Within the context of this thread, and non-us webmasters thinking 2257 has no effect on them....
If a US Sponsor wants to decrease their liability, their concerns over who sends them traffic and from where may/can/might..(whatever) close down the open affiliate sign up process. Make it a bit more strict and only deal with affiliates who can provide references, or who have some kind of good standing in this industry therefore leaving many webmasters US and non-US out in the cold.
The reply was..we go to other sponsors, or we start promoting non-us sponors etc.
That's all fine and dandy, companies who are taking a proactive stance in all of this and it's not just 2257...it's everything combined...those companies won't suffer.
As far as naming names, not gonna do that. I did not say they were specifically worried about 2257. However because of every issue that has arisen, and continues to arise whether it has been Visa, Acacia, or the new 2257 regs they have had to reevaluate how things should be done.
And more than a few have told me they would love nothing more than to abandon the affiliate model.
My point and my only point to sum it all up to the non-us webmasters...just because you happen to be a non-us webmaster don't assume this wil have zero effect on you because it will have some, especially because we all deal in such tight b2b relationships.
As I stated before. When 1 site closes down think of the effects it has on who all did business with that 1 site.
could be 10 - 100 - 1000 affiliates who now have one less sponsor they made money off of. The content provider now lost a client, the designer loses a client, the processor loses a client..etc..etc.
Now if all this is just utter nonsense and you can't see any of this happening and aren't doing anything now to weather this storm whatever that may be...then with all due respect I don't think you will make it.
Good night.For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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LOL trying to get personal?Originally posted by f | a s hif you're worried it means you don't have your shit together... atleast we now know you don't
dude I am a designer now for EGC...and I work for a guy who runs one of the tightest ships in this business.
I have no need anymore for content, or buying content. There was a time I did, but no longer.
I'm not worried from a going to jail stand point.
I am however worried as a businessman and how this will affect my future business dealings...and once again if you cannot see how this can and will affect you and you be prepared for it..you won't make it.For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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Might even force your favorite designer or programmer or content provider out of business when there are less clients around to keep him / her busy...I sure am glad you think so far ahead.Originally posted by f | a s heros if you're so worried why don't you quit while you're ahead? all of us running a tight ship don't worry about a thing.. these new laws will properly force the small time companies who don't know dick out of business, isn't it wonderfull
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You only think people will leave this business with the new 2257 updates.Originally posted by eroswebmaster
I see it more like more business for the clever non-US businesses. If US sponsors shut the door on non-US webmasters. Do you think there will be a gap in the market.
Do you think the webmasters disapear from the market? No, i think they will find other sponsors, startup their own paysites or do something else. Sure some people will quit the game. But more money for the ones still in the game.
There are many smart business people outside the US also. Large sponsors and contentproducers. Euro people already control large part of the TGP market today, this could expand. The endconsumer/surfer won't see any diffrent in the porn they surf/watch/buy.
I have nothing against you or anyone else but i think there is simple market economy in this. One market shuts down and there's a gap to fill.
Last edited by breaker; 05-26-2005, 06:04 AM.Comment
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No I don't think they will only quit...my resounding theme has just been don't think this does NOT affect you just because you are a non-us webmaster.Originally posted by breakerYou only think people will leave this business with the new 2257 updates.
I see it more like more business for the clever non-US businesses. If US sponsors shut the door on non-US webmasters. Do you think there will be a gap in the market.
Do you think the webmasters disapear from the market? No, i think they will find other sponsors, startup their own paysites or do something else. Sure some people will quit the game. But more money for the ones still in the game.
There are many smart business people outside the US also. Large sponsors and contentproducers. Euro people already control large part of the TGP market today, this could expand. The endconsumer/surfer won't see any diffrent in the porn they surf/watch/buy.
I have nothing against you or anyone else but i think there is simple market economy in this. One market shuts down and there's a gap to fill.
There seem to be 3 camps here.
Camp #1 Non-US webmasters. Fuck 2257, Fuck the US trying to control us, this does not affect us.
Camp #2 The sky is falling.
Camp #3 Let the culling begin.
I am not a sky is falling kind of guy...I'm not discussing absolutes here...only possibilities, maybes, might happens...I am only debating the point that I disagree with and that is Camp #1's point.For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
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Originally posted by eroswebmaster
I agree with much of what you say because it?s pointing towards keeping an open mind. As for those in Camp #1, much of the reaction is to do with people?s buttons being pressed over the US/Non-US divide. This will carry on for some time.
2257 will for sure cross everyone?s path in one way or another but in the short term those operating outside of the US have more breathing space.
You mentioned the past actions by Visa somewhere in your posts, personally I think something along these lines just might dictate who can and who cannot do business with the US.Comment
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b) Picture identification card means a document issued by the United States, a State government or a political subdivision thereof, or a United States territory, that bears the photograph and the name of the individual identified, and provides sufficient specific information that it can be accessed from the issuing authority, such as a passport, Permanent Resident Card (commonly known as a ``Green Card''), or other employment authorization document issued by the United States, a driver's license issued by a State or the District of Columbia, or another form of identification issued by a State or the District of Columbia; or,
a foreign government-issued equivalent of any of the documents listed above when both the person who is the subject of the picture identification card and the producer maintaining the required records are located outside the United States.
just to clarify before someone actually believes that bullshit (sorry, eros) - of course content can be bought outside the US from foreign producers and even foreign IDs are legal. See above the new regulations.
And of course it's up to the foreign producer whether he has his shit together or not. But that doesn't depend on where he lives. And people like me, who do most of the business with US customers, would be stupid not to comply with US laws - whether there is the actual danger of law enforcement against ourselves or not.Comment
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You are right.... I myself cancelled two servers, am putting back as main my Euro processors and am looking for a Euro registrar.Originally posted by BRISK
This said, there was a very nice article this morning in Xbiz about " foreign content" ( content = shooting models ).
To summarize, the lawyer was saying that if American corp goes to Brazil or Romania ( as example), it would be near impossible to comply because of the actual requirement that US corp get US emitted documents. Same if the model comes to America to shoot.
On the other hand, if the Foreign Corp shoots the product, they are not required to get US issued documents, only the regular local ones. And when they sell this content to the secondary producer, those documents are sufficient and lawfull ....
I know, it doesn't make sense, but at least it is consistent with the whole 2257 issue.
Go read the article before posting the hate remarks.
PS: I will be setting up this weekend a hosting solution with prices as good as in the US. Servers located in Montreal and Toronto.
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !
But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....Comment
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https://www.ynot.com/modules.php?op=...rder=0&thold=0Originally posted by MaDalton
See too many people are still confused about this which is what I said. So I as an American would probably want to stick with American content providers until these issues are all ironed out. It would be the only sensible thing to do.
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January 2004, or so - new Visa regulations, everyone's saying sponsors will drop payouts and only Silver Cash did itOriginally posted by eroswebmaster
I don't use ICQ anymore.Comment
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in the meantime almost every sposnro launches free hosting for affiliates who can send 1 ( one ) join daily or even less ( f.e Reality Cash )Originally posted by eroswebmaster
although to be honest, I see the advantages for certain companies in abandoning the affiliate model, but I can't see it happening in the near futureI don't use ICQ anymore.Comment
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