taking your 2257 offshore?

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  • Mike Dutch
    Confirmed User
    • Aug 2003
    • 5607
    #1

    taking your 2257 offshore?

    Would it be an idea to setup a trust here in for eample the netherlands.

    Where you content, sites etcc are based under a trust where your company is a part of, all based in the netherlands.

    The trust is responsible but only get paid a certain amount or percentage.

    This way your company is based in the netherlands and you are or owner or partner with a payout on profits.

    Would that be possible and avoid the US law even if you are a citizen there?

    That would mean changing everything to a foreign company ( which you are the partner of ) even domains etcc.

    Anybody considering moving there stuff over offshore with clever contructions?

    Advidi.com -- Your Dating, Diet and Skincare Partner with over 1000 offers --
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    • Mutt
      Too lazy to set a custom title
      • Sep 2002
      • 34431
      #2
      people better get this through their heads finally - IF you are a US resident it doesn't matter what the hell you do, where you set up a company, where you host your websites, where your domain registration info may say you are based - you are subject to 2257 and every other law of the United States.

      Your idea and the other hair brained schemes I've been reading aren't going to fool any government agency.

      this is now a lottery for American webmasters - lottery of doom. Getting in compliance for most will be impossible unless they just dump whole servers.
      I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

        Comment

        • Harmon
          ( ͡ʘ╭͜ʖ╮͡ʘ)
          • Mar 2004
          • 20013
          #3
          Originally posted by Mutt
          people better get this through their heads finally - IF you are a US resident it doesn't matter what the hell you do, where you set up a company, where you host your websites, where your domain registration info may say you are based - you are subject to 2257 and every other law of the United States.

          Your idea and the other hair brained schemes I've been reading aren't going to fool any government agency.

          this is now a lottery for American webmasters - lottery of doom. Getting in compliance for most will be impossible unless they just dump whole servers.
          This fucking sucks Time to get to work
          [email protected]

            Comment

            • Mike Dutch
              Confirmed User
              • Aug 2003
              • 5607
              #4
              We have already US partners setting their billing and hosting here up with the same scenario. Sending profits to tax paradises and avoid US laws.

              There is no correspondence between NL and US if you are a partner or "investor" in a dutch company there is no record telling that.

              Advidi.com -- Your Dating, Diet and Skincare Partner with over 1000 offers --

                Comment

                • ThumbLord
                  #5
                  I think Mike Dutch has a point.
                  Although you are an US resident, there must be solutions like looking for dutch/european partners and I am almost certain some lawyer will come up with an idea soon to get US residents off the 2257 hook

                    Comment

                    • gleem
                      Confirmed User
                      • Jun 2001
                      • 5593
                      #6
                      exactly, if your domains are reg'd offshore, your biz is offshore, your sites are hosted offshore, and your banks are offshore, as far as any gov agency knows there are no ties to any US citizen, and you can do whatever you want




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                        • DutchTeenCash
                          I like Dutch Girls
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 21684
                          #7
                          Mike there is no such thing as a dutch trust.

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                            • Mike Dutch
                              Confirmed User
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 5607
                              #8
                              Originally posted by thinkx
                              Mike there is no such thing as a dutch trust.
                              I don't know the right word for it sorry, english is not my native language.
                              I think your is also dutch right ;) ?

                              But what I meant was a dutch company with US partners ( investors, employees or in any form where there is no direct connection with the US)

                              Advidi.com -- Your Dating, Diet and Skincare Partner with over 1000 offers --

                                Comment

                                • DutchTeenCash
                                  I like Dutch Girls
                                  • Feb 2003
                                  • 21684
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by Mike Dutch
                                  I don't know the right word for it sorry, english is not my native language.
                                  I think your is also dutch right ;) ?

                                  But what I meant was a dutch company with US partners ( investors, employees or in any form where there is no direct connection with the US)
                                  Thats possible yes, if your host is here processor here and company is here then 2257 hasnt got that much influence.

                                  On the other hand how would you react as an affiliate who has say a free linksite on a program that moves away to avoid 2257 rules?

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                                    • Braincash Fred
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jul 2002
                                      • 1589
                                      #10
                                      Would be possible only if you don't have any affiliates in USA or don't care about them

                                        Comment

                                        • Donny
                                          As you wish...
                                          • May 2002
                                          • 13754
                                          #11
                                          Yes, I take both my 22 year old and my 57 year old off shore. Here's all you need to know about 22-57:

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                                            • Mike Dutch
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Aug 2003
                                              • 5607
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by thinkx
                                              Thats possible yes, if your host is here processor here and company is here then 2257 hasnt got that much influence.

                                              On the other hand how would you react as an affiliate who has say a free linksite on a program that moves away to avoid 2257 rules?

                                              I agree, I think if this rule applies for example thumb tgp's ( so they need top have recors on all thumbs and links ) it would be considrable to move.
                                              As as Sponsorprogram owner you will ALWAYS need to apply to the rules no matter where you are based, that has nothing to do with it.

                                              I just started this thread to see how you can make thing easy not how to distribute content that has no 2257. I think you should also be carefull with who gets the 2257 and who doesn't. There is also a protection element towards the models I think.

                                              Advidi.com -- Your Dating, Diet and Skincare Partner with over 1000 offers --

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                                                • MacDaddyPlaya
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Nov 2004
                                                  • 1785
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by gleem
                                                  exactly, if your domains are reg'd offshore, your biz is offshore, your sites are hosted offshore, and your banks are offshore, as far as any gov agency knows there are no ties to any US citizen, and you can do whatever you want
                                                  This maybe the case, and we fall in the category you mention here, but we are still getting in compliance. Don't want to fuck around with this one.
                                                  Sigless

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                                                    • Hinc
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Oct 2004
                                                      • 2577
                                                      #14
                                                      Well.

                                                      There´s no doubt the US intends the rule to have effect EVERYWHERE (given that it´ll be impossible for anyone to avoid relation to the US market entirely).

                                                      The big question is, are they going to try and enforce it somehow on european/asian etc webmasters....(I dont have an answer - some say yes, others say no)
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                                                        • DWB
                                                          Registered User
                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                          • 31779
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by Mutt
                                                          people better get this through their heads finally - IF you are a US resident it doesn't matter what the hell you do, where you set up a company, where you host your websites, where your domain registration info may say you are based - you are subject to 2257 and every other law of the United States.

                                                          Your idea and the other hair brained schemes I've been reading aren't going to fool any government agency.

                                                          this is now a lottery for American webmasters - lottery of doom. Getting in compliance for most will be impossible unless they just dump whole servers.
                                                          Though that IS the law, it is not practical. If a US webmasters lives abroad and is slick enough, they can make it very difficult for US inspectors (if there will be any) to do their job.

                                                          Who would you inspect... a guy living in Las Vegas who does everything in the USA, or the guy who lives in Amsterdam, banks in Panama, hosts in Canada, has Euro billing, and his office (where the records are at) is in Hong Kong. I'd bet all my money on the guy in Vegas. If for no other reason than for their budget they will stick to local inspections.

                                                          If questioned, the webmaster welcomes US government to come to Hong Kong to view the records. But according to the documents, there is to be NO warning. This means US inspectors will have to fly to Hong Kong and knock on his door. And this is even if Hong Kong would let them do such a thing. Do you really think they would send someone there to check them out? I doubt it. It's also not illegal for a US webmaster to have his records offshore so he could not get into trouble for doing this.

                                                          So yes, US law follows US citizens no matter where they go... but this is just not practical for US inspectors to glob trot in search of paperwork. There is the letter of the law, and then there is the spirit of the law. The US gov is simply not going to be able to force this on everyone, even though they would like to. Though they think the world is flat and the US is the only country that matters... that is simply not the case. It's a big playground out there.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • IwantU Luis P
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Jan 2005
                                                              • 139
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by Mutt
                                                              people better get this through their heads finally - IF you are a US resident it doesn't matter what the hell you do, where you set up a company, where you host your websites, where your domain registration info may say you are based - you are subject to 2257 and every other law of the United States.

                                                              Your idea and the other hair brained schemes I've been reading aren't going to fool any government agency.

                                                              this is now a lottery for American webmasters - lottery of doom. Getting in compliance for most will be impossible unless they just dump whole servers.

                                                              Let?s not be that dramatic, if that would it be true we won?t have 250 sportsbooks and online casinos based here in Costa Rica, and their all own by Americans. There?s always a way to go around the law!

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                                                                • Mike Dutch
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                                  • 5607
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by IwantU Luis P
                                                                  Let?s not be that dramatic, if that would it be true we won?t have 250 sportsbooks and online casinos based here in Costa Rica, and their all own by Americans. There?s always a way to go around the law!
                                                                  True, many US companies ar emoving their stuuf like billing to Europe to avoid irritating laws that make doing business hard compared to your non-us competition.

                                                                  I think there could be possibilities for sponsorporgrams and Trafficsites ( some are already moving their servers and companies to avoid the rules) I can imagazine some TGPs cant keep all 2257 of all their listings and the risk of losing the income is to high.

                                                                  Advidi.com -- Your Dating, Diet and Skincare Partner with over 1000 offers --

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                                                                    • DatingGold
                                                                      $6 PER EMAIL JOiN
                                                                      • Feb 2003
                                                                      • 13185
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by Mike Dutch
                                                                      I don't know the right word for it sorry, english is not my native language.
                                                                      I think your is also dutch right ;) ?

                                                                      But what I meant was a dutch company with US partners ( investors, employees or in any form where there is no direct connection with the US)

                                                                      So then you get to argue with an attorney general you aren't involved or even better yet with the IRS when you hide all the income.
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                                                                        • DateDoc
                                                                          Outside looking in.
                                                                          • Feb 2005
                                                                          • 14243
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by DatingGold
                                                                          So then you get to argue with an attorney general you aren't involved or even better yet with the IRS when you hide all the income.
                                                                          Yeah, that is like a double wammy. The US has a new law so you switched all traces of owning anything related to porn offshore and have all your money offshore yet you live like a king. You have just become the wet dream of many DOJ and IRS agents when they find you!

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Mike Dutch
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Aug 2003
                                                                              • 5607
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Yes we have some customers doing that, you can always have a certain % send to us as income from that company. Most of you know how these tricks really work with getting a loan of your own company offshore or constructions like these.

                                                                              I will never sat don't compy with the 2257, you must have your papers right and never ever display content with underaged models. Thats a fact, the only thing I want to point out how you could possibly can make things easier for yourself.

                                                                              Advidi.com -- Your Dating, Diet and Skincare Partner with over 1000 offers --

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                                                                                • MikeHawk
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Jan 2004
                                                                                  • 6683
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
                                                                                  Yes, I take both my 22 year old and my 57 year old off shore. Here's all you need to know about 22-57:

                                                                                  hahahahahaahahahaha...hey it was good meeting you in Phoenix!
                                                                                  THE AMBUSH INTERVIEW

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                                                                                    • GatorB
                                                                                      The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                                      • Oct 2001
                                                                                      • 18208
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      It seems that it would be easier to just comply with the 2257 laws than to do all this offshore shit and hiding money in foreign bank accounts.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Nate-MM2
                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                                                          • 263
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by GatorB
                                                                                          It seems that it would be easier to just comply with the 2257 laws than to do all this offshore shit and hiding money in foreign bank accounts.
                                                                                          That's why we will be offering full-service solutions with very little hassle for our clients.

                                                                                          Peep da sig y0!

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                                                                                            • pr0
                                                                                              rockin tha trailerpark
                                                                                              • May 2001
                                                                                              • 23088
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by Nate-MM2
                                                                                              That's why we will be offering full-service solutions with very little hassle for our clients.

                                                                                              Peep da sig y0!

                                                                                              quit pushing shit that isn't even done yet

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                                                                                                • colpanic
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • May 2004
                                                                                                  • 1007
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Man. A lot of you guys don't understand how corporations work do you?

                                                                                                  Just because you are an American citizen does not AT ALL mean that you can't get away with offshoring things. I mean, if you keep them in your name then sure, you are an idiot.

                                                                                                  The whole *point* of a corporation is that it is not *you*. The US government isn't going to come get you because you are an investor in a company that isn't 2257 compliant in some other country. Not any more than they would come and get you if you bought stock in that company on some exchange.

                                                                                                  Now, if you aren't compliant and doing business in the US, they could probably chop off your lines to sell anything in the US (and very well might), but you guys seem to think you will wind up in Guantano or something.


                                                                                                  I like ducks.

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                                                                                                    • Nydahl
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                                                      • 6655
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Mutt
                                                                                                      people better get this through their heads finally - IF you are a US resident it doesn't matter what the hell you do, where you set up a company, where you host your websites, where your domain registration info may say you are based - you are subject to 2257 and every other law of the United States.

                                                                                                      Your idea and the other hair brained schemes I've been reading aren't going to fool any government agency.

                                                                                                      this is now a lottery for American webmasters - lottery of doom. Getting in compliance for most will be impossible unless they just dump whole servers.
                                                                                                      You are not right man.
                                                                                                      You should recognize the difference between jurisdiction and tax due location.Those are 2 different things and his idea is very near to how to set it up without even breaking the US law.And still paying taxes in US.
                                                                                                      This 2257 situation is a classic example of using offshore structures sucesfully and productive way.
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                                                                                                        • Nydahl
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                                                                          • 6655
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by IwantU Luis P
                                                                                                          Let?s not be that dramatic, if that would it be true we won?t have 250 sportsbooks and online casinos based here in Costa Rica, and their all own by Americans. There?s always a way to go around the law!
                                                                                                          Also you forgot that the most powerfull banks in the world are offshore.Also very high % of big companies run some offshore partnership branch etc etc etc
                                                                                                          Basicly I think the offshore structure is the only working society system - get all money you make but pay us some fees so we have some funds to run the republic.
                                                                                                          The ussual tax systems are not productive and mostly its just wasting of money for bureaucracy
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                                                                                                            • nikad
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Jan 2004
                                                                                                              • 2579
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Offshore is not the answer

                                                                                                              If you have your biz based in the US, and you are already 2257 compliant - any serious companies should be - it won't be too difficult complying to the new changes on 2257, now if you are doing illegal business, want to avoid taxes, etc then it is the right answer... I don't think you have to become some kind fugitive to work, since work is a Constitutional right, isn't it?
                                                                                                              nik

                                                                                                              The Filthy Few
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                                                                                                                • mrthumbs
                                                                                                                  salad tossing sig guy
                                                                                                                  • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                  • 11702
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by nikad
                                                                                                                  If you have your biz based in the US, and you are already 2257 compliant - any serious companies should be - it won't be too difficult complying to the new changes on 2257, now if you are doing illegal business, want to avoid taxes, etc then it is the right answer... I don't think you have to become some kind fugitive to work, since work is a Constitutional right, isn't it?
                                                                                                                  nik

                                                                                                                  what he said

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                                                                                                                    • Nate-MM2
                                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                      • 263
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by nikad
                                                                                                                      If you have your biz based in the US, and you are already 2257 compliant - any serious companies should be - it won't be too difficult complying to the new changes on 2257, now if you are doing illegal business, want to avoid taxes, etc then it is the right answer... I don't think you have to become some kind fugitive to work, since work is a Constitutional right, isn't it?
                                                                                                                      nik
                                                                                                                      The problem is that the tightening of the 2257 regulations probably won't be the last move the government makes to clamp down on porn.

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • Paul Moore
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                          • 101
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Mike Dutch
                                                                                                                          Would it be an idea to setup a trust here in for eample the netherlands.

                                                                                                                          Where you content, sites etcc are based under a trust where your company is a part of, all based in the netherlands.

                                                                                                                          The trust is responsible but only get paid a certain amount or percentage.

                                                                                                                          This way your company is based in the netherlands and you are or owner or partner with a payout on profits.

                                                                                                                          Would that be possible and avoid the US law even if you are a citizen there?

                                                                                                                          That would mean changing everything to a foreign company ( which you are the partner of ) even domains etcc.

                                                                                                                          Anybody considering moving there stuff over offshore with clever contructions?

                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Mutt
                                                                                                                          Your idea and the other hair brained schemes I've been reading aren't going to fool any government agency. .
                                                                                                                          ^


                                                                                                                          Unfortunately, Mr. Schwalbach and his colleagues @ ask jolene pride themselves on scemes, scam's and unethical business practices. It's clearly displayed in this thread he created how he'll do anything to escape abiding rules and regulations.

                                                                                                                          It would be interesting to know if ask jolenes CEO is still involved in DNS cache poisioning in attempts to redirect traffic? Perhaps the goverment will be able to answer that question shortly.
                                                                                                                          Last edited by Paul Moore; 05-25-2005, 07:40 PM.
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                                                                                                                            • Barefootsies
                                                                                                                              Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                                                                                              • 42635
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Mike Dutch
                                                                                                                              Would it be an idea to setup a trust here in for eample the netherlands.

                                                                                                                              Where you content, sites etcc are based under a trust where your company is a part of, all based in the netherlands.

                                                                                                                              The trust is responsible but only get paid a certain amount or percentage.

                                                                                                                              This way your company is based in the netherlands and you are or owner or partner with a payout on profits.

                                                                                                                              Would that be possible and avoid the US law even if you are a citizen there?

                                                                                                                              That would mean changing everything to a foreign company ( which you are the partner of ) even domains etcc.

                                                                                                                              Anybody considering moving there stuff over offshore with clever contructions?
                                                                                                                              Call a lawyer, and stop with the hypotheticals.

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                                                                                                                                • NickB.
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 8865
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Paul Moore
                                                                                                                                  ^


                                                                                                                                  Unfortunately, Mr. Schwalbach and his colleagues @ ask jolene pride themselves on scemes, scam's and unethical business practices. It's clearly displayed in this thread he created how he'll do anything to escape abiding rules and regulations.

                                                                                                                                  It would be interesting to know if ask jolenes CEO is still involved in DNS cache poisioning in attempts to redirect traffic? Perhaps the goverment will be able to answer that question shortly.

                                                                                                                                  I knew you were gonna reply again.... this is totally not relevant to the thread.....

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • Mr.Right - Banned For Life
                                                                                                                                      I guarantee it
                                                                                                                                      • May 2005
                                                                                                                                      • 18314
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      What if you are in Australia,

                                                                                                                                      Also what is the fuss about 2257, i have not completly read all the threads, but i thought you were always meant to get the models id and copies of her passport ect

                                                                                                                                      Batts

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                                                                                                                                        • jayeff
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • May 2001
                                                                                                                                          • 2944
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Mike Dutch
                                                                                                                                          We have already US partners setting their billing and hosting here up with the same scenario. Sending profits to tax paradises and avoid US laws.
                                                                                                                                          I guess if you go to this trouble at all, you may as well go for the win double: upset the FBI and the IRS

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • Mike Dutch
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                              • 5607
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by colpanic
                                                                                                                                              Man. A lot of you guys don't understand how corporations work do you?

                                                                                                                                              Just because you are an American citizen does not AT ALL mean that you can't get away with offshoring things. I mean, if you keep them in your name then sure, you are an idiot.

                                                                                                                                              The whole *point* of a corporation is that it is not *you*. The US government isn't going to come get you because you are an investor in a company that isn't 2257 compliant in some other country. Not any more than they would come and get you if you bought stock in that company on some exchange.

                                                                                                                                              Now, if you aren't compliant and doing business in the US, they could probably chop off your lines to sell anything in the US (and very well might), but you guys seem to think you will wind up in Guantano or something.



                                                                                                                                              You hit it on the right spot here..

                                                                                                                                              Its not about doing illegal stuff, and no FBI or whatever, these things are all settled legally and give you benefits towards your competitors .

                                                                                                                                              Advidi.com -- Your Dating, Diet and Skincare Partner with over 1000 offers --

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                                                                                                                                                • Mike Dutch
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                                  • 5607
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  and Paul Moore, get the fuck out. You are a lost surfer and the previous moderator of my board that was giving out passowrds anybody knows that.
                                                                                                                                                  No go play on the surfer forums and dont mngle in seriosu threads like these, this is business not pornheaven.

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